I expect the same speed for fixing the new bugged version of SoD than they did last time, so in 1-2 days it SHOULD do what it states, that is taking ALL the damage you've done in those 6 secs and then taking half of the total.
++1 which means that , YES it should take stacked SoD's as well
FYI i dont play exec caus eit a no go for pvp and i NEVER had problem countering one even with the "bugged" SoD (NOT)
Love how everyone says not as useful on bosses or mass mobs. You have ANY idea how much damage a stealth smoke bomb does?! You don't even need to go Exe for dps, the TR's encounter already does way too much.
I love the TR, but honest to god, I want the damage toned down on smoke bomb, it is overboard. I'm completely shocked that people are fine with it! My destroyer GWF cannot even compete with every rotation with my TR's single smoke bomb, it's disgusting.
I don't even use a vorpal btw....
no man smoke does not need a nerf. The whole tr class needs a rework NEW REWORK, but smoke sud stay as it is.please dont, ....DONT ever say that yet another nerf should come to this class
and yes we all here know how much damage it does, it varies from 5k-8k dps. its only a few seconds, stay outa smoke next time, i dont see many ppl hitting a GF with supremacy , now i sud see ppl run away from smoke
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
no man smoke does not need a nerf. The whole tr class needs a rework NEW REWORK, but smoke sud stay as it is.please dont, ....DONT ever say that yet another nerf should come to this class
and yes we all here know how much damage it does, it varies from 5k-8k dps. its only a few seconds, stay outa smoke next time, i dont see many ppl hitting a GF with supremacy , now i sud see ppl run away from smoke
Talking about PVE, and this isn't about nerfing, it's balancing. Why should a control power with no target cap be able to kill all trash mobs and leave elites with 10-20% health left with a crit? Not even the CW has anything like that. Only an archery HR with prey active and rain of arrows compares. There's not even a point for the rest of my encounters while soloing.
I stealth, pop bomb on mob, stab an elite that's left a few times and repeat. It's overpowered. In fact, it's worst than the old shard.
I think kweassa that you should stop talking about skill in tr's class after mod 5, when the dev's statement for nerfing stealth and making this ****ty rework is to eliminate skill, read please carefully the statement and stop insulting other players especially when you play the most op tr paragon. Plus i dont know why its ok for a 14k SW to do 1-1,5 mill in bosses such as Valindra from a no-bugged skill and for a 12-14k tr not be able to pick up his acnient dagger in cn with as much ease as the previous one. plus it makes me laugh that a hugh geared ranged WK having trouble with a exec using PoB in pvp.
If te tr's are eating one another and suggesting nerfs(please DONT tell me the skill was bugged) for other tr paragon's and paths when they should support even the skill-less way for a TR to play as many ppl's dont have the same time to learn to play, the same lag cause they are in locations where they cant react in time , or they might actually lack the skill to play and they like to play the rogue. what should they do? delete toon and create a cw or sw??
Cry some moar QQ
QQ QQ QQ all day long.... dont u whiners ever git tired?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Love how everyone says not as useful on bosses or mass mobs. You have ANY idea how much damage a stealth smoke bomb does?! You don't even need to go Exe for dps, the TR's encounter already does way too much.
I love the TR, but honest to god, I want the damage toned down on smoke bomb, it is overboard. I'm completely shocked that people are fine with it! My destroyer GWF cannot even compete with every rotation with my TR's single smoke bomb, it's disgusting.
I don't even use a vorpal btw....
Are you speaking from a PVP or PVE perspective? Smoke bomb does as much damage as POTB but lasts a very short duration and ticks hard. In terms of DPS, it is high when you exclude the cooldown, and is hence good for an aoe burst (when it crits). From PVE perspective, it's meh for soloing comparatively, a CW's single Steal Time beats it, but for dungeons, it's no target cap give the TR a much needed advantage when running with highly geared players who tend to run through dungeons mass mobbing so as to not be as useless as the TR was. In a low GS team, it's still meh for dungeon but helps the team with it's CC. Smoke Bomb doesn't need to be nerfed.
well , when demise was working bugged ( it will work properly again when demise gets fixed) i started with a smoke bomb , then stealth , whirlwind if possible, blitz , and then sly flourish everyone , and that pretty much erased any minor to medium mob group. Even without the bug i think that will escalate a nice amount of aoe damage.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
Talking about PVE, and this isn't about nerfing, it's balancing. Why should a control power with no target cap be able to kill all trash mobs and leave elites with 10-20% health left with a crit? Not even the CW has anything like that. Only an archery HR with prey active and rain of arrows compares. There's not even a point for the rest of my encounters while soloing.
I stealth, pop bomb on mob, stab an elite that's left a few times and repeat. It's overpowered. In fact, it's worst than the old shard.
this guy doesnt know what he is saying, your GS probably exceed the mob so whats the issue there? you have high tier gears what do you expect?
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
this guy doesnt know what he is saying, your GS probably exceed the mob so whats the issue there? you have high tier gears what do you expect?
13k GS and a lesser plague fire is hardly anything these days.
And I do know what I'm saying. I've done stealth smoke bomb over and over. The numbers tell me plenty about how broken it is. It does more damage than the rest of my encounters besides lashing blade.
I was second place in a pirate king run. I did 80% less damage than a CW with a P-vorp and BIS gear. Simply because I used stealth smoke bombs on everything. There was another CW in the party but his damage didn't even come close.
Do you honestly believe the TR should have AoE damage on par with the CW? PK is a complete AD fest.
QQ QQ QQ all day long.... dont u whiners ever git tired?
I have 4 TR's , none of which is exec, plus my main was a perma exec up till now (MOD4).I didnt change to the op WK sabo now and guess what.
After almost a year pvp-ing I like the challenge.I was ONE OF THE FIRST to report that the TR exec was too OP and skill-less due to the FIRST REWORK on SoD, and that was a reason for me to leave the game.THE FEEDBACK WAS REMOVED.
Again THAT FEEDBACK WAS REMOVED.
I LIKE THE DS IN WK IN THIS MOD cause I believe that WK needed a cannon,especially against MI.even you deeded that.PLZ read you post again and make the hypothesis that there might be a new player that reads it as an answer.
I am not a QQ er so stop playing know-it all plz , I respect your dedication in the game and especially your class, far too much to lose it just because you dont think before you type
And yeah , even with the... "bugged SoD mode" u sud stay AT LEAST 7 seconds with PoB hitting you on cap just to start getting some damage.Now, as long as scoundrel is concerned this...7 secs....is 1 or 2 bonus free TR EXEC kilz at least
PS: IF your answer was because you actually knew the person involved,and it was in fact justified, plz not on forum, MAIL on LIVE plz
I have 4 TR's , none of which is exec, plus my main was a perma exec up till now (MOD4).I didnt change to the op WK sabo now and guess what.
After almost a year pvp-ing I like the challenge.I was ONE OF THE FIRST to report that the TR exec was too OP and skill-less due to the FIRST REWORK on SoD, and that was a reason for me to leave the game.THE FEEDBACK WAS REMOVED.
Again THAT FEEDBACK WAS REMOVED.
I LIKE THE DS IN WK IN THIS MOD cause I believe that WK needed a cannon,especially against MI.even you deeded that.PLZ read you post again and make the hypothesis that there might be a new player that reads it as an answer.
I am not a QQ er so stop playing know-it all plz , I respect your dedication in the game and especially your class, far too much to lose it just because you dont think before you type
And yeah , even with the... "bugged SoD mode" u sud stay AT LEAST 7 seconds with PoB hitting you on cap just to start getting some damage.Now, as long as scoundrel is concerned this...7 secs....is 1 or 2 bonus free TR EXEC kilz at least
PS: IF your answer was because you actually knew the person involved,and it was in fact justified, plz not on forum, MAIL on LIVE plz
As a WK main since it came out, I must say that I like the new DS.
The problem is the mages. I know a mage is typically thought of as a glass cannon DPS but right now, most CW/SWs don't have a chance against this. All it takes is pressing stealth, landing DS, and maintaining Stealth while the target runs around trying to find out.
GWF, GF, DC, and HR, from what I've seen, at least have some kind of sustain to mildly counter this and/or draw you out.
TR vs TR right now is stupid since every other TR is PoB Exec.
Broken mechanics, broken class designs, lack of actual content, and over zealous, bronze-age moderation?
13k GS and a lesser plague fire is hardly anything these days.
And I do know what I'm saying. I've done stealth smoke bomb over and over. The numbers tell me plenty about how broken it is. It does more damage than the rest of my encounters besides lashing blade.
I was second place in a pirate king run. I did 80% less damage than a CW with a P-vorp and BIS gear. Simply because I used stealth smoke bombs on everything. There was another CW in the party but his damage didn't even come close.
Do you honestly believe the TR should have AoE damage on par with the CW? PK is a complete AD fest.
Are you stealth bombing perhaps as a saboteur then? I'm an executioneer myself and I would have to rely on smoke bomb critting (while stealthed) for good damage. I cannot agree with 'balancing' a power for a specific build unless you are asking to 'balance' the stealth bonus of saboteur? Is that what's causing your 'disgusting' damage numbers?
In terms of boosting damage, a EOTS/SS CW has the better encounter in Steal Time which is also a better CC. Comparatively Smoke Bomb also has a smaller aoe than an aoe by a caster class, have to position to drop it, and have no control over the pull of adds. Timing becomes everything with smoke bomb within a party if the purpose is to maximize DPS.
Should a GWF or SW have comparable damage in a dungeon run with a CW? (They can.) Now the whole point of the TR rework was to bring it in line as a DPS class with the game meta. Take away what little AOE advantage that has been given, and we might have well not reworked it at all. And unfortunately, even if you give your TR BIS gear, it's not likely you will cover that 80% difference to the CW in PK. A BIS SW will put even more distance between you.
In terms of boosting damage, a EOTS/SS CW has the better encounter in Steal Time which is also a better CC. Comparatively Smoke Bomb also has a smaller aoe than an aoe by a caster class, have to position to drop it, and have no control over the pull of adds. Timing becomes everything with smoke bomb within a party if the purpose is to maximize DPS.
I'm a scoundrel, but that doesn't mean that I deserve to be doing such messed up damage.
A first strike smoke bomb hits waay harder than my CW's steal time with EotS up, with a normal plague fire and HV equipped. Not to mention, that has a target cap.
Wasn't everybody's idea of the TR was someone who dealt massive single target damage? Cyanide gas bomb is the source of most of my damage right now. THAT is not balance.
And I mistyped that. I did 20% less than a CW that was better geared.
Do you honestly believe that a Control Wizard should have the same or more single target damage than a TR? because many times that's what happened.
My CW doesn't have focused mastery, but still does less. Quite a bit less. You only deal a good deal is from depending on EotS. What powers compete with DF and LB!?
I don't see CWs dominating PVP anymore so I don't know where you're getting this from.
A first strike smoke bomb hits waay harder than my CW's steal time with EotS up, with a normal plague fire and HV equipped. Not to mention, that has a target cap.
Wasn't everybody's idea of the TR was someone who dealt massive single target damage? Cyanide gas bomb is the source of most of my damage right now. THAT is not balance.
My CW doesn't have focused mastery, but still does less. Quite a bit less. You only deal a good deal is from depending on EotS. What powers compete with DF and LB!?
I don't see CWs dominating PVP anymore so I don't know where you're getting this from.
So is the problem First Strike? We shouldn't balance a power based on a build, I don't use First Strike. Even then, it's WAI.
My smoke bomb doesn't take out an elite even if I crit with all my bonuses, my steal time does when everything procs. Granted isn't as often as I would crit on my TR. Which is fair, because a CW gets a lot of dps from procs, and can layer better aoes than a TR.
I don't know about everybody, but the single target burn paragon path is executioneer (which is broken), the all around consistent dps and stealth is saboteur (which can actually be better than executioneer), and the CC tree is scoundrel.
The whole point of the TR rework is to have it fit the game meta instead of having it the way it was. None of the other classes after revamped are typecast and have allowed more options. If not, why bother to escape from the old TR. I for one, have not felt the TR should be purely single target focus for in a long time, and saw a need to keep up while maintaining it's burst damage as a dps class.
Reiwulf may be refering to a PVE context. My Icy Rays apart from good single target damage is also a large instant heal when fighting one on one in a boss fight. A CW cannot deal good single target damage is a myth, but again classes have not been single faucet for a while so as to handle the solo grind of Campaigns.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
edited November 2014
Looks to me like this whole discussion is now revolves over a single PK run.
PK is one of the easiest dungeons in the game, most geared enough players can solo it, so the relatively limited total HP in the dungeon and the relatively squishy mobs makes it a simple race, the person who runs ahead and manages to AoE first, will lead in DPS and those who will lag behind will starve (dps wise). Same thing happens in most dungeons when people over-gear them (one can see it a lot with geared CWs in CN) so PK which can be considered t1 is a very good example.
Old spec-ed well geared PvE TR could do it to some extent by running first and use every limited AoE like blitz, WW, PotB.
I think before anyone makes conclusion on class nerfs/buffs perhaps running with more people (with different play style, like CN farmers - now elol) and different dungeons.
I do not know if scoundrel damage bonus on dazed target should be nerfed, my main point that PK is really not a good indicator and very depended on the play-style of your teammates.
Wasn't everybody's idea of the TR was someone who dealt massive single target damage? Cyanide gas bomb is the source of most of my damage right now. THAT is not balance.
While the TR does great single target damage it hasn't been the best at this for awhile. Previous to these changes gwf/hr/cw/sw did quite a bit more single target damage than a TR. They still do more than my scoundrel but I don't know about a sab and will have to wait for SoD to be fixed to see with the exe. So, whatever our idea was it was not realized by the devs so we have what we have now, and it appears to have been what is necessary to make the TR not undesirable in groups as I haven't heard very many complaints about a TR being in a group of late.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
The whole point of the TR rework is to have it fit the game meta instead of having it the way it was. None of the other classes after revamped are typecast and have allowed more options. If not, why bother to escape from the old TR. I for one, have not felt the TR should be purely single target focus for in a long time, and saw a need to keep up while maintaining it's burst damage as a dps class.
The whole rework should not include a BIS control power with no target cap that's capable of that much damage. My scoundrel is simply dealing too much damage for the control it offers. My GWF or HR can't bring that to the table, it throws things out of order even more. I should NOT be pumping out more DPS than my GWF for one thing who can't even perma CC a mob.
Looks to me like this whole discussion is now revolves over a single PK run. I do not know if scoundrel damage bonus on dazed target should be nerfed, my main point that PK is really not a good indicator and very depended on the play-style of your teammates.
It's not just PK, it's everywhere. Drop a smoke bomb in stealth, they become dead/crippled.
Well so far on my scoundrel I am still seeing 'tanking' CW outdamage my TR on bosses, but I don't mind as this TR is loads better than my old scoundrel and a lot more fun too.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited November 2014
The irony still continues. No fix for the actual SoD bug....
Its just ridiculous!
When we have overpowered SoD it get fix in 2 days,
now when its worse than it supposed to be we dont get fix for days...
WTF the devs are thinking?
I want my exec to be playable again...
mojoratMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 90
edited November 2014
To be honest ? I think sod should work only with encounters it reinforces the pop in and out paradigm they expressed at the beginning.
They should have a bunch of the existing feats for damage check pm CA rather than stealth. Too much bursy damage combined with vorpal creates problems.
Comments
++1 which means that , YES it should take stacked SoD's as well
FYI i dont play exec caus eit a no go for pvp and i NEVER had problem countering one even with the "bugged" SoD (NOT)
no man smoke does not need a nerf. The whole tr class needs a rework NEW REWORK, but smoke sud stay as it is.please dont, ....DONT ever say that yet another nerf should come to this class
and yes we all here know how much damage it does, it varies from 5k-8k dps. its only a few seconds, stay outa smoke next time, i dont see many ppl hitting a GF with supremacy , now i sud see ppl run away from smoke
Talking about PVE, and this isn't about nerfing, it's balancing. Why should a control power with no target cap be able to kill all trash mobs and leave elites with 10-20% health left with a crit? Not even the CW has anything like that. Only an archery HR with prey active and rain of arrows compares. There's not even a point for the rest of my encounters while soloing.
I stealth, pop bomb on mob, stab an elite that's left a few times and repeat. It's overpowered. In fact, it's worst than the old shard.
Cry some moar QQ
QQ QQ QQ all day long.... dont u whiners ever git tired?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
kweassa just because you play scoundrel and i play saboteur does not mean execution isnt supposed to work as stated.
fix shadow of demise
Very doubtful. It will probably take over a week for them to do anything about it. No changes were made to preview server.
this guy doesnt know what he is saying, your GS probably exceed the mob so whats the issue there? you have high tier gears what do you expect?
13k GS and a lesser plague fire is hardly anything these days.
And I do know what I'm saying. I've done stealth smoke bomb over and over. The numbers tell me plenty about how broken it is. It does more damage than the rest of my encounters besides lashing blade.
I was second place in a pirate king run. I did 80% less damage than a CW with a P-vorp and BIS gear. Simply because I used stealth smoke bombs on everything. There was another CW in the party but his damage didn't even come close.
Do you honestly believe the TR should have AoE damage on par with the CW? PK is a complete AD fest.
I have 4 TR's , none of which is exec, plus my main was a perma exec up till now (MOD4).I didnt change to the op WK sabo now and guess what.
After almost a year pvp-ing I like the challenge.I was ONE OF THE FIRST to report that the TR exec was too OP and skill-less due to the FIRST REWORK on SoD, and that was a reason for me to leave the game.THE FEEDBACK WAS REMOVED.
Again THAT FEEDBACK WAS REMOVED.
I LIKE THE DS IN WK IN THIS MOD cause I believe that WK needed a cannon,especially against MI.even you deeded that.PLZ read you post again and make the hypothesis that there might be a new player that reads it as an answer.
I am not a QQ er so stop playing know-it all plz , I respect your dedication in the game and especially your class, far too much to lose it just because you dont think before you type
And yeah , even with the... "bugged SoD mode" u sud stay AT LEAST 7 seconds with PoB hitting you on cap just to start getting some damage.Now, as long as scoundrel is concerned this...7 secs....is 1 or 2 bonus free TR EXEC kilz at least
PS: IF your answer was because you actually knew the person involved,and it was in fact justified, plz not on forum, MAIL on LIVE plz
As a WK main since it came out, I must say that I like the new DS.
The problem is the mages. I know a mage is typically thought of as a glass cannon DPS but right now, most CW/SWs don't have a chance against this. All it takes is pressing stealth, landing DS, and maintaining Stealth while the target runs around trying to find out.
GWF, GF, DC, and HR, from what I've seen, at least have some kind of sustain to mildly counter this and/or draw you out.
TR vs TR right now is stupid since every other TR is PoB Exec.
Go Cryptic!
PS - I quit.
In terms of boosting damage, a EOTS/SS CW has the better encounter in Steal Time which is also a better CC. Comparatively Smoke Bomb also has a smaller aoe than an aoe by a caster class, have to position to drop it, and have no control over the pull of adds. Timing becomes everything with smoke bomb within a party if the purpose is to maximize DPS.
Should a GWF or SW have comparable damage in a dungeon run with a CW? (They can.) Now the whole point of the TR rework was to bring it in line as a DPS class with the game meta. Take away what little AOE advantage that has been given, and we might have well not reworked it at all. And unfortunately, even if you give your TR BIS gear, it's not likely you will cover that 80% difference to the CW in PK. A BIS SW will put even more distance between you.
Yes.
In fact a GWF should have more AoE damage than a CW if you ask me.
Do you honestly believe that a Control Wizard should have the same or more single target damage than a TR? because many times that's what happened.
I'm a scoundrel, but that doesn't mean that I deserve to be doing such messed up damage.
A first strike smoke bomb hits waay harder than my CW's steal time with EotS up, with a normal plague fire and HV equipped. Not to mention, that has a target cap.
Wasn't everybody's idea of the TR was someone who dealt massive single target damage? Cyanide gas bomb is the source of most of my damage right now. THAT is not balance.
And I mistyped that. I did 20% less than a CW that was better geared.
My CW doesn't have focused mastery, but still does less. Quite a bit less. You only deal a good deal is from depending on EotS. What powers compete with DF and LB!?
I don't see CWs dominating PVP anymore so I don't know where you're getting this from.
My smoke bomb doesn't take out an elite even if I crit with all my bonuses, my steal time does when everything procs. Granted isn't as often as I would crit on my TR. Which is fair, because a CW gets a lot of dps from procs, and can layer better aoes than a TR.
I don't know about everybody, but the single target burn paragon path is executioneer (which is broken), the all around consistent dps and stealth is saboteur (which can actually be better than executioneer), and the CC tree is scoundrel.
The whole point of the TR rework is to have it fit the game meta instead of having it the way it was. None of the other classes after revamped are typecast and have allowed more options. If not, why bother to escape from the old TR. I for one, have not felt the TR should be purely single target focus for in a long time, and saw a need to keep up while maintaining it's burst damage as a dps class.
Reiwulf may be refering to a PVE context. My Icy Rays apart from good single target damage is also a large instant heal when fighting one on one in a boss fight. A CW cannot deal good single target damage is a myth, but again classes have not been single faucet for a while so as to handle the solo grind of Campaigns.
PK is one of the easiest dungeons in the game, most geared enough players can solo it, so the relatively limited total HP in the dungeon and the relatively squishy mobs makes it a simple race, the person who runs ahead and manages to AoE first, will lead in DPS and those who will lag behind will starve (dps wise). Same thing happens in most dungeons when people over-gear them (one can see it a lot with geared CWs in CN) so PK which can be considered t1 is a very good example.
Old spec-ed well geared PvE TR could do it to some extent by running first and use every limited AoE like blitz, WW, PotB.
I think before anyone makes conclusion on class nerfs/buffs perhaps running with more people (with different play style, like CN farmers - now elol) and different dungeons.
I do not know if scoundrel damage bonus on dazed target should be nerfed, my main point that PK is really not a good indicator and very depended on the play-style of your teammates.
While the TR does great single target damage it hasn't been the best at this for awhile. Previous to these changes gwf/hr/cw/sw did quite a bit more single target damage than a TR. They still do more than my scoundrel but I don't know about a sab and will have to wait for SoD to be fixed to see with the exe. So, whatever our idea was it was not realized by the devs so we have what we have now, and it appears to have been what is necessary to make the TR not undesirable in groups as I haven't heard very many complaints about a TR being in a group of late.
The whole rework should not include a BIS control power with no target cap that's capable of that much damage. My scoundrel is simply dealing too much damage for the control it offers. My GWF or HR can't bring that to the table, it throws things out of order even more. I should NOT be pumping out more DPS than my GWF for one thing who can't even perma CC a mob.
It's not just PK, it's everywhere. Drop a smoke bomb in stealth, they become dead/crippled.
The GWF has become the new TR of the cursed LFG channel:p
When we have overpowered SoD it get fix in 2 days,
now when its worse than it supposed to be we dont get fix for days...
WTF the devs are thinking?
I want my exec to be playable again...
because the priority to fix underpowered MAIN talent of exec is not high...
here there write they test it but its long time ago...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?796091-Possible-Bug-With-the-quot-new-quot-Shadow-of-demise-quot&p=9508721&viewfull=1#post9508721
They should have a bunch of the existing feats for damage check pm CA rather than stealth. Too much bursy damage combined with vorpal creates problems.