we are strictly a 1 vs 1 class and were designed as such.
the opposite of lone wolf is an extreme nerf and unnecessary. just stick with the nerfs to perma >.>
Yeah i think TRs are fine with DPS where they are now, must only drop survivability tools. My idea is you are supposed to choose a target, sneak to him in stealth and spike high. But then you're vulnerable and must use roll and skills to evade and if the enemy is good he can catch you and pay back the damage.
Like for any other class.
Yeah i think TRs are fine with DPS where they are now, must only drop survivability tools. My idea is you are supposed to choose a target, sneak to him in stealth and spike high. But then you're vulnerable and must use roll and skills to evade and if the enemy is good he can catch you and pay back the damage.
Like for any other class.
so you basically want a gwf without its defense and unstoppable
an hr without lone wolf wilde medicine 30% lifesteal
a melee no shield cw
not going to happen, trickster are conterable since mod 2 with ease now you just know you eventually will die. if you are not able to do it probably you lack skill which is acceptable, you use a wrong build or the enemy is too strong full stop.
stealth mechanic is now fine because to hit you i have to slowly gloaming you in your face with no immunity frame
and then we all know how it ends up:
hr----> roots fox shift --- procs
procs----more procs---why not procs??? ---- dead.
cw----> entangling--- chill ----dead
gwf ----> intimidation x2 ----hope it crits---dead
gf
> no i cant imagine that many problem gf vs tr their shield is always up and there is no way to bring it down face tanking....anvil of doom dead
and dont come saying tr are 1 shot, perma daze, perma stealth, perma blablabla you either are scoundrel, sab or exe unless i miss some new hack
whisper knife ranged tr are cancers tho, that is really toxic gameplay with 0 way to counter them
Yeah i think TRs are fine with DPS where they are now, must only drop survivability tools. My idea is you are supposed to choose a target, sneak to him in stealth and spike high. But then you're vulnerable and must use roll and skills to evade and if the enemy is good he can catch you and pay back the damage.
Like for any other class.
personally, was never really sure if the 25% armor pen for executioners was completely fine since it potentially allows 1-shotting tanks (not that it would be much different even if it was nerfed). but it also evens out since they are likely going to die after the 1-shot and it can be completely prevented by an aoe to intercept them or deflecting the blow. high-risk and high-reward is truly assassin like so it's probably fine.
for sabs, their issue is having the highest sustained dps alongside the best survivability which is just wrong on many levels. probably best to either reduce critical bonuses from stealth or remove all of their dps feats. only other thing i can think of is if their capstone turns them visible and refills their stealth bar instead of just remaining in stealth after using an encounter.
scoundrels are just moderate in both dps and survivability, but the dazes tip the scale in our favor by hindering responses to our attacks. at the same time our deflect is naturally balanced due to the fact that it's a gamble and high amounts of it sacrifices every other stat unlike hunters. i wouldn't exactly call it overpowered since you are not supposed to 1 vs 1 a rogue unless you are a gwf or at least a skilled hunter (whom do run fast enough to avoid us while dazed).
hr----> roots fox shift --- procs
procs----more procs---why not procs??? ---- dead.
cw----> entangling--- chill ----dead
gwf ----> intimidation x2 ----hope it crits---dead
gf
> no i cant imagine that many problem gf vs tr their shield is always up and there is no way to bring it down face tanking....anvil of doom dead
somewhat true depending on gear although scoundrels are fast enough to get around guardians. otherwise impossible while visible.
you also forgot wizards having procs that bypass deflect. those procs of theirs can rip half my hp in just a few seconds. i can ignore chill but i can't ignore those procs
Yeah i think TRs are fine with DPS where they are now, must only drop survivability tools. My idea is you are supposed to choose a target, sneak to him in stealth and spike high. But then you're vulnerable and must use roll and skills to evade and if the enemy is good he can catch you and pay back the damage.
Like for any other class.
That's certainly an option, but not necessarily something forcibly inclined. Rather, the point would be that "permastealth" becomes an extreme defensive option very little offensive quality -- that's how I view it.
If I may lay it out in more simpler terms, the basic premise of the whole mod5 changes are "gain stealth for defense, or lose stealth for attack" -- it's not a mechanical prevention against permastealth per se, but in utilitarian terms something designed to exactly do that. That's why at-wills now cut down on your stealth, and Encounters always blew stealth.
So in theory, if you want to attack, only 3~4 small attacks are possible from stealth, and in the end you MUST consume stealth with your encounters to deal any kind of real damage. If you can't risk that, you may be still able to perma, but you sho' ain't gonna be able to attack anything as the old permas used to. You're literally hiding, not attacking anything.
...of course, as we all notice, the Saboteuer path simply breaks that theory to smithereens, and some powers like WK DHS makes it through the 'loop holes' of stealth depletion. When you combine those two together and bam!
An abomination is born -- a perma that is:
1. even more stable and easy to maintain than the old permas
2. at the same time many times more powerful in damage than the old TRs
3. ...and can fight and kill more enemies at the same time than the old permas.
When it comes to permas, the mod5 WK/Sab is the most powerful perma build since the history of all NW permas.
I've got a few ideas on how to fix this, without directly nerfing damage or anything, but of course, people won't like it. LOL
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
...whisper knife ranged tr are cancers tho, that is really toxic gameplay with 0 way to counter them
I see you've met one of the WK/Sabs, then.
I wholehearted agree. WK/Sab is OP. Of all the QQs and complaints, this is THE one build that holds some truth to their QQs and whines. It is extremely lethal and almost impossible to counter.
The only thing that's stopping more WK/Sabs from appearing in PvP, is the bias people have against WKs when it used to lack behind MIs... most people still think there is no option without being a MI with ITC. Almost a "natural aversion" to WKs People have been brainwashed with "WK will never be an option" for such a long time now.
But its only a matter of time. WK/Sabs are going to spread. There's no way people are going to voluntarily stay away from something this powerful -- It is inevitable.
It's the most powerful perma build in the history of all permas in NW.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I read this thread and laughed. There are two camps of people basically.
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts
And every other class who says its not ok.
Anything you say about TR being OP, the TR's will come here with a bulldung excuse as to why they should stay OP, because reasons, nevermind balance xD
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
I read this thread and laughed. There are two camps of people basically.
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts
And every other class who says its not ok.
Anything you say about TR being OP, the TR's will come here with a bulldung excuse as to why they should stay OP, because reasons, nevermind balance xD
i'm not defending the overpowered aspects. i just don't see scoundrel feats or our high deflect as being overpowered.
1-shotting guardians is weird but i already listed the exact executioner feat that helps with it (not that their capstone won't finish most off anyways).
i'm not defending the overpowered aspects. i just don't see scoundrel feats or our high deflect as being overpowered.
1-shotting guardians is weird but i already listed the exact executioner feat that helps with it (not that their capstone won't finish most off anyways).
sabs we all agree is overpowered.
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts
(I have two TR and I can say for their gs's they are way OP)
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
If you dont know the solution against SoD, then there is no point talking to you. Learn how to play, search for gear that can help you pve/pvp. You having problem with SoD means you dont explore or ask about the game. Again TR's are fine, CW's stop whinning
13k gs tr ending up with 17-1 among 18k gs players is normal for a striker class..
Tr class is fine lets all say it a couple of more times shall we .....
If you dont know the solution against SoD, then there is no point talking to you. Learn how to play, search for gear that can help you pve/pvp. You having problem with SoD means you dont explore or ask about the game. Again TR's are fine, CW's stop whinning
If you dont know the solution against SoD, then there is no point talking to you. Learn how to play, search for gear that can help you pve/pvp. You having problem with SoD means you dont explore or ask about the game. Again TR's are fine, CW's stop whinning
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts.
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
+1
Perma stealth+ perma stun+ 4 dodges+ huge DMG. TR is just mad, no way to survive against him
You forgot 1 thing TR's deflect now immune all cc from CW. Icy Rays now uselles and all cotrol now uselles Now we have Control DPS Rogue and Uselles Cw. Welcome to Chris Meyer M5 class balance!
P.S. Forgot about DC...but who care's? "No patch notes this week. " Devs dont care.
Yeah i think TRs are fine with DPS where they are now, must only drop survivability tools. My idea is you are supposed to choose a target, sneak to him in stealth and spike high. But then you're vulnerable and must use roll and skills to evade and if the enemy is good he can catch you and pay back the damage.
Like for any other class.
Well, oneshot LB is a problem. So funny to be knocked off your horse by sweet 30k LB out of nowhere. The damage in PvE is fine, I can easily top paingiver with my 16k saboteur TR in pug eSoT runs most of the time.
But honestly, those 50k pre-mitigation LBs wouldn't be a problem, if there were no over9000 tools to survive and control. Seriously, Dazing Strike is so cheesy now and can crit for over 15k. I loled at RU leaderboard, there are only 3 non-TR classes on the first page.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I'm CW 38k HP so don't give us that bull sh. I mostly most of the time loosing 28k from one shot coming from the dark and then get stun and stab to deth
hitting a tr only to see all hits deflected then get freakin 2 shoted yea......
Somehow getting OS-ed by the stealthed TR is more bearable, than finding yourself unable to hit or cc him at all anyway. Mod5 PvP for non-TR classes has just become a matter of riding your mount to some base and refining your gear while waiting for getting OS-ed again.
ToD = ..........
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
I think dev should change 100% sucsses crit change while stealth with 40% crit sev
and make tr leave footprint when stealth at least when they step on the node
or give back 75% deflec sev to 50%
Another pug, look, CW have skill to detect and track TR already. TR don't have OP magic skills like CW, TR skills are made for combat, to be best DPS for single target. And if you didn't know tenacity bonus actually work in PVP. Before you made more posts please learn how work every class in the game.
Comments
we are strictly a 1 vs 1 class and were designed as such.
the opposite of lone wolf is an extreme nerf and unnecessary. just stick with the nerfs to perma >.>
Yeah i think TRs are fine with DPS where they are now, must only drop survivability tools. My idea is you are supposed to choose a target, sneak to him in stealth and spike high. But then you're vulnerable and must use roll and skills to evade and if the enemy is good he can catch you and pay back the damage.
Like for any other class.
so you basically want a gwf without its defense and unstoppable
an hr without lone wolf wilde medicine 30% lifesteal
a melee no shield cw
not going to happen, trickster are conterable since mod 2 with ease now you just know you eventually will die. if you are not able to do it probably you lack skill which is acceptable, you use a wrong build or the enemy is too strong full stop.
stealth mechanic is now fine because to hit you i have to slowly gloaming you in your face with no immunity frame
and then we all know how it ends up:
hr----> roots fox shift --- procs
procs----more procs---why not procs??? ---- dead.
cw----> entangling--- chill ----dead
gwf ----> intimidation x2 ----hope it crits---dead
gf
> no i cant imagine that many problem gf vs tr their shield is always up and there is no way to bring it down face tanking....anvil of doom dead
and dont come saying tr are 1 shot, perma daze, perma stealth, perma blablabla you either are scoundrel, sab or exe unless i miss some new hack
whisper knife ranged tr are cancers tho, that is really toxic gameplay with 0 way to counter them
personally, was never really sure if the 25% armor pen for executioners was completely fine since it potentially allows 1-shotting tanks (not that it would be much different even if it was nerfed). but it also evens out since they are likely going to die after the 1-shot and it can be completely prevented by an aoe to intercept them or deflecting the blow. high-risk and high-reward is truly assassin like so it's probably fine.
for sabs, their issue is having the highest sustained dps alongside the best survivability which is just wrong on many levels. probably best to either reduce critical bonuses from stealth or remove all of their dps feats. only other thing i can think of is if their capstone turns them visible and refills their stealth bar instead of just remaining in stealth after using an encounter.
scoundrels are just moderate in both dps and survivability, but the dazes tip the scale in our favor by hindering responses to our attacks. at the same time our deflect is naturally balanced due to the fact that it's a gamble and high amounts of it sacrifices every other stat unlike hunters. i wouldn't exactly call it overpowered since you are not supposed to 1 vs 1 a rogue unless you are a gwf or at least a skilled hunter (whom do run fast enough to avoid us while dazed).
somewhat true depending on gear although scoundrels are fast enough to get around guardians. otherwise impossible while visible.
you also forgot wizards having procs that bypass deflect. those procs of theirs can rip half my hp in just a few seconds. i can ignore chill but i can't ignore those procs
That's certainly an option, but not necessarily something forcibly inclined. Rather, the point would be that "permastealth" becomes an extreme defensive option very little offensive quality -- that's how I view it.
If I may lay it out in more simpler terms, the basic premise of the whole mod5 changes are "gain stealth for defense, or lose stealth for attack" -- it's not a mechanical prevention against permastealth per se, but in utilitarian terms something designed to exactly do that. That's why at-wills now cut down on your stealth, and Encounters always blew stealth.
So in theory, if you want to attack, only 3~4 small attacks are possible from stealth, and in the end you MUST consume stealth with your encounters to deal any kind of real damage. If you can't risk that, you may be still able to perma, but you sho' ain't gonna be able to attack anything as the old permas used to. You're literally hiding, not attacking anything.
...of course, as we all notice, the Saboteuer path simply breaks that theory to smithereens, and some powers like WK DHS makes it through the 'loop holes' of stealth depletion. When you combine those two together and bam!
An abomination is born -- a perma that is:
1. even more stable and easy to maintain than the old permas
2. at the same time many times more powerful in damage than the old TRs
3. ...and can fight and kill more enemies at the same time than the old permas.
When it comes to permas, the mod5 WK/Sab is the most powerful perma build since the history of all NW permas.
I've got a few ideas on how to fix this, without directly nerfing damage or anything, but of course, people won't like it. LOL
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
don't leave us in the dark! oh wait, we like the dark.
I see you've met one of the WK/Sabs, then.
I wholehearted agree. WK/Sab is OP. Of all the QQs and complaints, this is THE one build that holds some truth to their QQs and whines. It is extremely lethal and almost impossible to counter.
The only thing that's stopping more WK/Sabs from appearing in PvP, is the bias people have against WKs when it used to lack behind MIs... most people still think there is no option without being a MI with ITC. Almost a "natural aversion" to WKs
But its only a matter of time. WK/Sabs are going to spread. There's no way people are going to voluntarily stay away from something this powerful -- It is inevitable.
It's the most powerful perma build in the history of all permas in NW.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts
And every other class who says its not ok.
Anything you say about TR being OP, the TR's will come here with a bulldung excuse as to why they should stay OP, because reasons, nevermind balance xD
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
i'm not defending the overpowered aspects. i just don't see scoundrel feats or our high deflect as being overpowered.
1-shotting guardians is weird but i already listed the exact executioner feat that helps with it (not that their capstone won't finish most off anyways).
sabs we all agree is overpowered.
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts
(I have two TR and I can say for their gs's they are way OP)
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
If you dont know the solution against SoD, then there is no point talking to you. Learn how to play, search for gear that can help you pve/pvp. You having problem with SoD means you dont explore or ask about the game. Again TR's are fine, CW's stop whinning
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Again NOT OP, TR's are FINE!
You forgot 1 thing
P.S. Forgot about DC...but who care's? "No patch notes this week. " Devs dont care.
TR's who defend their OPness and probably will forever nevermind the facts.
See we can do this all day
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
Instead of spamming your useless posts here, what about using actual constructive arguments?
Yeah there only 2 classes in this game, the TR and the CW. So only CW's reply here! Kid...
if dev not gonna fix TR "bug" i think i need to roll TR LOL
I think all ppls leave..
Well, oneshot LB is a problem. So funny to be knocked off your horse by sweet 30k LB out of nowhere. The damage in PvE is fine, I can easily top paingiver with my 16k saboteur TR in pug eSoT runs most of the time.
But honestly, those 50k pre-mitigation LBs wouldn't be a problem, if there were no over9000 tools to survive and control. Seriously, Dazing Strike is so cheesy now and can crit for over 15k. I loled at RU leaderboard, there are only 3 non-TR classes on the first page.
Somehow getting OS-ed by the stealthed TR is more bearable, than finding yourself unable to hit or cc him at all anyway. Mod5 PvP for non-TR classes has just become a matter of riding your mount to some base and refining your gear while waiting for getting OS-ed again.
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
They said they want to make it harder. You have to learn to read with understanding.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
Perma stun TR don't have huge damage, it suck in damage. You can survive, but you are a pug aren't you?
Another pug, look, CW have skill to detect and track TR already. TR don't have OP magic skills like CW, TR skills are made for combat, to be best DPS for single target. And if you didn't know tenacity bonus actually work in PVP. Before you made more posts please learn how work every class in the game.
In M5 I can perma with zero recovery and 11 int. So hard.