It feels hypocritical to argue you don't have shoes, when someone has no feet. Just saying.
So only one class is allowed to be bad off ? If gwf had 2 max dmg and gf had 1 max dmg does that mean that gf players shouldn't be allowed to complain ?
There is threads on many classes, i also feel gwf could do with some changes but then you should be spending your time on them threads trying to help the class out, not on here.
Crixus - PVP GF
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So only one class is allowed to be bad off ? If gwf had 2 max dmg and gf had 1 max dmg does that mean that gf players shouldn't be allowed to complain ?
There is threads on many classes, i also feel gwf could do with some changes but then you should be spending your time on them threads trying to help the class out, not on here.
Well, for some reason there is this brilliant idea of merging the forums for 2 different classes. We're like the gypsies of neverwinter, GF and GWF, we can't afford our own room. Btw, I completely agree with you but, really GFs aren't "left out" anywhere. Open your eyes a bit.
Well, for some reason there is this brilliant idea of merging the forums for 2 different classes. We're like the gypsies of neverwinter, GF and GWF, we can't afford our own room. Btw, I completely agree with you but, really GFs aren't "left out" anywhere. Open your eyes a bit.
As I said, we have a list of many, many bugs that hasn't been fixed. These affect the gf gameplay in pvp hugely.
But anyway just because we are decent for pvp and in a better place for pve doesn't make us fine. Our pve is just being a buff bot, it's the most boring gameplay ever and we need a huge fix for pvp in my opinion so yes we are left out, gf needs looking at and fixing.
Crixus - PVP GF
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
But anyway just because we are decent for pvp and in a better place for pve doesn't make us fine.
No, it doesn't, but when others can't even claim the word "decent" anymore I think the OP should be more careful when passing complaints like that. Your class is far from "useless" or "left out", while other classes *cough* can really use both words and be spot on.
No, it doesn't, but when others can't even claim the word "decent" anymore I think the OP should be more careful when passing complaints like that. Your class is far from "useless" or "left out", while other classes *cough* can really use both words and be spot on.
Yeah we are very far from useless and are actually useful in pve now unlike past mods and in a decent place for pvp but we do require many fixes. Pve is just boring to me, the only real way a gf is good for pve is by being a buff bot and that isn't a fun way to play. And i test in 1v1s and in pvp all the time and all these bugs are annoying as hell. I can't believe they wasn't fixed in a whole mod -.-
Everytime i use lunging strike or bull charge my char does a weird double animation like hes having a fit an it makes my guard not activate for about 2 seconds so i get CC'd easily. Griffons wrath loses charges all the time so i don't bother using what could be our best power. My guard sometimes doesn't activates or even drops randomly and other times CC just goes right though.
Playing a gf is a lot of skill but also now a huge amount of luck because if one of these glitches happen then your chances of dying have just flew up.
the only real way a gf is good for pvp is by being a buff bot
That's just wrong and the worst part is you know its wrong but you keep re-telling it as if its true in hope of buffs to your class. No need replying to this since it matters not what you say at this point, we all know how it goes and how folks talk when they defend 'their' class.
Now here is the reaility fresh from Mod 5 Doms. Godmode was on my team in a dom last night ( random q for me ), his gear is pretty much what my own GF has or any other bis GF for that matter. The dude dominated the match with the most kills and zero deaths with my 20k PVP Intimidation Sentinel present. After I was done with my GWF I logged my GF. He is a Conq and I played him as one and I kicked alot of a**.
So no, the GF can be very offensive and work wonders in PVP, same GF can be a very productive tank in PVE as well. What more do you want ? Lemme guess, you want to kill those crazy good rangers and now rogues right ? Well, get in line 'cause nobody kills them but them. As for your list of bugs etc here is a tip, the GWF's sprint is super slow to respond resulting in cc taking effect that should have been avoided and we rubberband all the time. The GWF unstop is slow to activate and can be easily interrupted not to mention its bloody short.
So enough of the ' I want my class to end all other classes ' mentality, its what led us to this stinking pile of s** we sit in currently. Someone like you who considers himself a skilled player of his class, goes around writing guides etc and generally seeks to be accepted as some sort of authority on the GF class should not talk HAMSTER like that.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
That's just wrong and the worst part is you know its wrong but you keep re-telling it as if its true in hope of buffs to your class. No need replying to this since it matters not what you say at this point, we all know how it goes and how folks talk when they defend 'their' class.
Now here is the reaility fresh from Mod 5 Doms. Godmode was on my team in a dom last night ( random q for me ), his gear is pretty much what my own GF has or any other bis GF for that matter. The dude dominated the match with the most kills and zero deaths with my 20k PVP Intimidation Sentinel present. After I was done with my GWF I logged my GF. He is a Conq and I played him as one and I kicked alot of a**.
So no, the GF can be very offensive and work wonders in PVP, same GF can be a very productive tank in PVE as well. What more do you want ? Lemme guess, you want to kill those crazy good rangers and now rogues right ? Well, get in line 'cause nobody kills them but them. As for your list of bugs etc here is a tip, the GWF's sprint is super slow to respond resulting in cc taking effect that should have been avoided and we rubberband all the time. The GWF unstop is slow to activate and can be easily interrupted not to mention its bloody short.
So enough of the ' I want my class to end all other classes ' mentality, its what led us to this stinking pile of s** we sit in currently. Someone like you who considers himself a skilled player of his class, goes around writing guides etc and generally seeks to be accepted as some sort of authority on the GF class should not talk HAMSTER like that.
I meant to say "the only way a gf is good for PVE is to be a buff bot". not pvp. I thought that would have been a clear mistake lol
Not sure where i ever asked for buff on any post so please repost that.......
I said gf was in a decent place for pvp, because we are.
I play my gf and i always notice some annoying bug in EVERY single match.
Also yes for pve gf is buff bot. our dps isn't as good as other classes so what else can we do ? its the truth lol do you ever see a party ask for a dps gf ?? nope because the best powers gf has is ITF and KV, 2 buff powers......
I don't want buffs and anyone who can read or knows me will agree. I just want bug fixes and a way to play pve and not be a buff bot, simple.
EDIT: So please don't put words in my mouth. The amount of time is have been on threads saying that cw should get a power back that goes through our block or that tr needs buffs ect. I have only ever wanted balance and that's what i have always asked for. The thing that bugs me most is that you probably know this since your on the forums alot so why would you say that i want my class to be best when you know that's not true...
I meant to say "the only way a gf is good for PVE is to be a buff bot". not pvp. I thought that would have been a clear mistake lol
Not sure where i ever asked for buff on any post so please repost that.......
I said gf was in a decent place for pvp, because we are.
I play pvp all the time i have 18k gs and i always get around 20-30 kills will low deaths because i have practiced my class much and have decent gear. I said i wanted bug fixes not buffs so why do you put words in my mouth ?I play my gf and i always notice some annoying bug in EVERY single match.
Also yes for pve gf is buff bot. our dps isn't as good as other classes so what else can we do ? its the truth lol do you ever see a party ask for a dps gf ?? nope because the best powers gf has is ITF and KV, 2 buff powers......
I don't want buffs and anyone who can read or knows me will agree. I just want bug fixes and a way to play pve and not be a buff bot, simple.
Its your bloody role to tank the damage in PVE not dish it out Mr. Main@Tank. Failure to acknowledge even that while claiming your class is somehow "weak/lacking/left behind" gives me the right to assume what you really want is, to put it bluntly, to be OP... well, wrong class for the task..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Its your bloody role to tank the damage in PVE not dish it out Mr. Main@Tank. Failure to acknowledge even that while claiming your class is somehow "weak/lacking/left behind" gives me the right to assume what you really want is, to put it bluntly, to be OP... well, wrong class for the task..
Nope, again i have never asked for buffs, you just seem to want an argument for some strange reason.
And i didnt say we was weak or lacking. Just that we need bug fixes and not not be a buff bot for pvp.
We are a guardian FIGHTER so we should have other options. Also if we are the tank then why is our deflection lower than almost every class ? Because we aren't just meant for tanking, that's also why we have a conqueror path, to you know....deal dmg. If that path is for dealing dmg then give us that option in pve, or a way to not just slam 2 powers on and sit there gaining aggro while everyone else can have the fun of actually killing things.
I also find it funny that most people on the forums who don't seem to read posts always uses the " you want your class to be OP" argument. That clearly isn't working here man because them words you are just putting in my mouth, i have never mentioned that anywhere. So please if you want to disagree with me then come up with some good points not just make up lies.
Crixus - PVP GF
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And i didnt say we was weak or lacking. Just that we need bug fixes and not not be a buff bot for pvp.
Well, get in line, we all need bug fixes. This isn't exactly a bug free game isn't it? While at it, apart from any bugs, you clearly accept that GFs are in a good place, both pve and pvp wise. You also are far from buff bots in pvp. So again with my original point to the OP, such threads like this talking about GFs being "left out" are hypocritical and somewhat insulting. No, you're not left out when you have some bugs that everyone has, you are left out when you are USELESS, like GWFs are as we speak. It's just that almost everyone has adapted now and keeps a CW/SW alt and the fact that generally GWFs don't cry as much. Perhaps that's why we always get the bad end of the shaft, maybe we should become crybabies like our CW friends, it seems to work wonders for them. In the end it just feels absurd to see cries like this thread from classes that are really sufficient and decent in all the game's content, when others are under-performing so much. It seems narrow minded and egotistical.
PS: I was one of the first to ask for GF boosts when they were useless once upon a time.. I wasn't creating threads that my class is left out.
Well, get in line, we all need bug fixes. This isn't exactly a bug free game isn't it? While at it, apart from any bugs, you clearly accept that GFs are in a good place, both pve and pvp wise. You also are far from buff bots in pvp. So again with my original point to the OP, such threads like this talking about GFs being "left out" are hypocritical and somewhat insulting. No, you're not left out when you have some bugs that everyone has, you are left out when you are USELESS, like GWFs are as we speak. It's just that almost everyone has adapted now and keeps a CW/SW alt and the fact that generally GWFs don't cry as much. Perhaps that's why we always get the bad end of the shaft, maybe we should become crybabies like our CW friends, it seems to work wonders for them. In the end it just feels absurd to see cries like this thread from classes that are really sufficient and decent in all the game's content, when others are under-performing so much. It seems narrow minded and egotistical.
Get in line ? I posted a thread about bug fixes a long time ago and not one has been fixed. I have been in line for a long time lol and still waiting for about 20 bugs with the gf class to be finally fixed.
Ok first i would only say "left out" int he way that they seem to have forgotten all the bugs with this class, not that we are weak in any way but saying a class cant ask for bug fixes or changes because another class has them too makes no sense at all. If you dont want gf bugs to get fixed because gwf has issues then go and ask for fixes for gwf class instead of being on this thread bro.
I get that all classes have bugs obviously but i play a gf and i KNOW the bugs that affect my class so i will try to get them fixed because some bugs affect some players more than others. Depending on what skills and stuff they use.
So to some up. I have never asked for buffs, i want balance in pvp. I would like bug fixes to my class that are really annoying me and i would like more pve options so i don't have to stick KV and ITF on all the time and be a buff bot (Yes I could go dps too but whats the points when a cw or another dps class could just take my place).
Crixus - PVP GF
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zankardMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I tried to make clear my reaction was mostly about how the OP treated the subject. About the bugs, yes, every class has them and waited for them to get fixed for ever. It's one thing to ask for them to fix bugs and you should, and another thing to create drama and exaggerate the situation only to grab attention like the OP did. I'll make my leave now, so people can discuss about the "GF being left out" because that is the name of the thread, and perhaps like you recommended me to, go and ask yourself for fixes for the GF in other threads and leave responses such as mine to threads such as this. Have a great day, left out GFs. I feel for you.
I'm going to go out on a limb & say something strange.
Why should PvP be different from PvE? Really liked mod2 when all of the powers did what they said. I never felt like a buff bot, did *some* damage (conq capstone, villain's menace, etc.), & was actually enjoyable.
Not sure where the "left out" part comes from, though. Left out of what? Not getting a complete revamp of all of our feats? Not getting a rework to lessen damage taken while blocking? You sound very angry, but I'm not sure as to the point here. Everything I've seen is you asking other people to prove their point. What IS your actual point?
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
GF has a movement penalty ,as a class,by default.That creates problems when he must aggro the boss/miniboss/adds first.
Example:
About slow speed: When he must aggro one of the two scorps in elol.If a team8 attacks first ,then the GF has lost aggro.To regain it must not only mark but use Iron warrior and hit the scorp immediatelly after.Considering the slow animations of the GF,his already slow movement ,and the crossed aoes of the two scorps at this time,there is some possibility the Gf to be one shot.
The two scorps (specially the left one) have eaten enough poor GFs already .Should we put an end to this?
Second example ,considering most specifically ,the slow animations this time:
Again in elol vs the 2 scorps.For me at current game maybe there are (with garakas from esot) the most potent bosses in the game.
The most common daily used by Gfs there is Fighters recovery.It is a good daily but.....
In case the scorp makes a specific attack there is a problem:The attack is when he hits with claws and then immediatelly summons a small aoe directly behind the GF(medium pool of lava) and then hits with the claws and the tail for a prone attack.IF the Gf does not go back he will be proned.Fighter's recovery will not save him.
So where the slow animations stand in all this?
In order the Gf to maintain aggro must hit from time to time the scorp.The most apropriate hit is Aggravating Strike.(Sword above the shield).That animation MOVES GF in front each time,also locks him in that animation for some 0.3-0.6 secs.
That gives very clear probability the aforementioned attack of the scorp to happen when GF does aggravating strike.The outcome is 101% certain.Gf is proned.Consider the fact he is in KV...bye bye poor GF
Even if GF survives the hits(and most do) slow animations come again into play.His block is not responsible,is not usable again for some half s second after he is proned.
Second example again vs the scorp about slow animations again:
For the above you see that the major danger against the scorp/scorps in elol is GF to be proned.So what the GF has in his arsenal to avoid prones?What provides him CC immunity.Villain's Menace.It is the animation that makes the GF bigger and cc immune.
Villain's Menace in theory should prone proof the Gf vs the scorps.Well it does not.
Its animation is too slow,aproximatelly 1-1.2 secs (!!) ,that there is a whole good probability the GF to be hit with Aoe ,or to be proned ,while he does the animation.So again you see how much problem are the slow animations not only for GF himself,but for the whole party.
So the minimum the GF needs ,among others,is to reduce its default movement penalty and to increase nearly all its animations.
Edit : Chem i am sure you have seen with your SW or your TR when you do Elol runs poor GFs eaten alive by the cursed ,wicked,vicious ,evil left scorp.....
In one moment ,before the fight ,at the gate you have a poor happy GF throwing basket of water from summer festival to his team8s and using emotes.And less than 1-2 minutes later the Gf dead and the party members running and jumping above aoes and lavas try to revive him .Let's put an end to this!!!!
Hey, i've done this fight on GF too. My block seems a little slow, but i'm on an average laptop with wireless, so it could be that or it could be my fault. I'm not in the habit of blaming the game when i don't block something. I probably didn't pay close enough attention to the mobs.
Now for me, I like lunging strike and threatening rush. Plus if your team is GOOD they will let you go in first by waiting a whole 2 seconds, thus solving most of the problem.
Of course there are plenty of bad teams and bad GF out there.
When i die it's normally because of the SF bug :S or someone doesn't dodge and b/c of KV and i get smashed.
That said I really like this fight on my GF, it's fun and exciting! so I'm a fan and I don't mind it.
I am also ok with bad players dying, death is a great teacher.
Its your bloody role to tank the damage in PVE not dish it out Mr. Main@Tank. Failure to acknowledge even that while claiming your class is somehow "weak/lacking/left behind" gives me the right to assume what you really want is, to put it bluntly, to be OP... well, wrong class for the task..
It's my *role* to take your damage? NO! It is your PRIVILEGE that I am taking your damage. I am sacrificing my DPS so you can stay alive.
Look at a cleric. Its *role* is to heal, yet a righteous cleric has a pretty good chance of being Paingiver.
It's my *role* to take your damage? NO! It is your PRIVILEGE that I am taking your damage. I am sacrificing my DPS so you can stay alive.
Look at a cleric. Its *role* is to heal, yet a righteous cleric has a pretty good chance of being Paingiver.
Here's a hint, the only way a GF tanks more than my GWF is by running KV and at the same time a GWF also does his fare share of dps. You picked a class envisioned as a main tank, wanting to turn him into a dps machine while retaining his toughness and tanking tools is not gonna work - the devs already told us that much. The fighter classes are in a very good place in both pve and pvp. A Sentinel will outdps a GF but a Sentinel can never tank as good or buff as good and thats how it should be. You shieldbashing folks who actually support the OP are delusional. So, you can forget those pipe dreams of "privileges" and "sacrificing DPS in order to tank", cause they are just that, dreams. We installed a RPG, we all pick a role and stick to it. If you dont like it, play an alt
PS: Leave the DC out of this
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
But couldn't a GWF get 80% DR without even blocking? A GWF can tank even better than a GF and still do great DPS which was why GF couldn't get any groups before mod 4.
You JUST said the *only* way a GF tanks better than your GWF is by buffing. Is that right? No it's not. GF should be WAY tougher than a fighter class without a shield, and as a DPS class your DR should be 40% MAX, and only with a top GS. GWF, as a DPS should *never* be able to replace a GF in a group as tank, same as the other DPS classes which is well in mod 5, everybody.
But couldn't a GWF get 80% DR without even blocking? A GWF can tank even better than a GF and still do great DPS which was why GF couldn't get any groups before mod 4.
You JUST said the *only* way a GF tanks better than your GWF is by buffing. Is that right? No it's not. GF should be WAY tougher than a fighter class without a shield, and as a DPS class your DR should be 40% MAX, and only with a top GS. GWF, as a DPS should *never* be able to replace a GF in a group as tank, same as the other DPS classes which is well in mod 5, everybody.
I agree. This has already been proven in previous mods by the most OP class ever-GWF, which made all other classes unnecessary BOTH in PVE and PVP.
The GF is way tougher, KV is not some random buff and what you're saying is old news. KV is the GF toughness spread onto his party.
You dont get what tanking even means - its not just being hard to kill and fighting on the front lines, we have class mechanics here, time to learn them already. To be a productive tank for your team you intercept the damage mobs deal to them. You may accomplish this by:
1) take the mobs attention and keep them on you - but a Sentinel dies in epic LoL/Tuern this way unless he gets help
2) Be a GF with KV on
3) be a cc machine who "tanks" for his team by keeping the mobs controlled
Keeping the above in mind here is the breakdown. A GWF rushes in, grabs initial aggro and does some dps ( huge on geared toons, average on average gear toons ). After that he needs either healing, control support or a real tank to take over with aggro/kv or he falls. This is what separates the GF tank from the GWF tank, this is why I say the GF is the best tank while the GWF can do damage and some aggro management but ultimitely both have their own moment of glory. What you seem to want is a GF who does what a GWF can do + does what a GF can do... sorry no
Clear now ?
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Never. Your role as a tank may be threatened by say, a DC because healing in all MMOs tends to generate more threat than damage does. And DC has some survivability. GWF may try. He will run at the boss and scream "Leeeeeeroy Jenkins" and die halfway in some dragonling's AOE.
The GF is way tougher, KV is not some random buff and what you're saying is old news. KV is the GF toughness spread onto his party.
You dont get what tanking even means - its not just being hard to kill and fighting on the front lines, we have class mechanics here, time to learn them already. To be a productive tank for your team you intercept the damage mobs deal to them. You may accomplish this by:
1) take the mobs attention and keep them on you - but a Sentinel dies in epic LoL/Tuern this way unless he gets help
2) Be a GF with KV on
3) be a cc machine who "tanks" for his team by keeping the mobs controlled
Old news does't make it right. GWF DR shouldn't, as a DPS class with no shield-be THAT high. Period.
And you have no idea about my knowledge or experience with tanking, I've tanked in games like this since Everquest. Stop calling everyone stupid and look at the hypocrisy of your own statements.
Now explain the reason why a GWF, as a DPS class, should have higher base DR than a GF?
Never. Your role as a tank may be threatened by say, a DC because healing in all MMOs tends to generate more threat than damage does. And DC has some survivability. GWF may try. He will run at the boss and scream "Leeeeeeroy Jenkins" and die halfway in some dragonling's AOE.
Expert job of taking things out of context, I was repeating what the previous poster said.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Old news does't make it right. GWF DR shouldn't, as a DPS class with no shield-be THAT high. Period.
And you have no idea about my knowledge or experience with tanking, I've tanked in games like this since Everquest. Stop calling everyone stupid and look at the hypocrisy of your own statements.
Now explain the reason why a GWF, as a DPS class, should have higher base DR than a GF?
Expert job of taking things out of context, I was repeating what the previous poster said.
Im done explaining basics to you as you are apparently an expert who knows his stuff. So, go figure this game out on your own and talk about your class, your role and how you feel you dont have the tools to perform it. Leave other classes alone
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Im done explaining basics to you as you are apparently an expert who knows his stuff. So, go figure this game out on your own and talk about your class, your role and how you feel you dont have the tools to perform it. Leave other classes alone
Says the GWF that's been telling GF's what's up. Pot/kettle. Every single one of your posts in this thread is about another class.........
And you can't/won't answer my question because a truthful answer is not in your best interests.
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Says the GWF that's been telling GF's what's up. Pot/kettle. Every single one of your posts in this thread is about another class.........
And you can't/won't answer my question because a truthful answer is not in your best interests.
Im a fighter player yes, unlike some folks though I do not discriminate so I play one of each. It clear as day that both fighters have the tools to perform their roles in PVE and both fighters can be extremely strong in PVP. Only a blind fool would want to argue that a fighter class is being "left behind" at the moment. That or a troll, take your pick
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I appreciate that you play both fighter classes and many times I've been bashed for suggesting that a GF DPS increase would blur class lines and come dangerously close to making the GWF class obsolete................for the sake of that same balancing issue though I still haven't found an acceptable answer for the GWF class having more base DR than the GF class.
Yes, the GF with KV can get up to 70%, but that comes with taking half of everyone's damage. GWF can get 80+ taking only his own damage. Why?
Venril Sathir- CW
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I am trying to understand where the angst is coming from for the GF positions. The GF is in a very good spot for PvE right now and their stock just went up with mod 5 because of the damage boost TR's got and the threat generation that goes along with it. Seriously, SW and TR generate insane threat now which makes a threat generating impregnable juggernaut even more necessary.
I don't know of a top end group that would ever turn a GF away, I certainly don't.
Buffer, tank, taunter, stupid hard to kill the GF is a very flexible class that pays back its party in droves.
Any who say GF needs help in PvE right now is just whu???
The OP is correct, GF are in serious need of love, far more so in PVP than PVE. THe corrections in PVP would help tremendously in PVE though.
GF need more baseline Deflect, Crit, Armor Pen.
10-20% more deflect
5-10% more crit
10-15% more armor pen.
After that increase at will dmg by at least 100% and Increase top end wpn dmg by about 20-30. We already have the slowest run speed slowest attack speed and outside of lunging strike and bulls rush very limited mobility.
Frankly the Profound 4p bonus 12.5% increase runspeed should be added to all existing 4p bonuses.
I have 50k life 49% Damage resistance and 29% deflect and less than an hour ago I had a CW almost one shot me, left me with less than 3k life, I died to the next attack. I have had the exact same thing happen at the hands of TR, GWF. I have had HR hit me twice almost instantly and take 70% of my life and even if that were not the case I do not have the dps to kill one 1v1 if they use their disengages right and simply regen. DC currently are now also an Impossible fight, more dmg than me more healing and just as tanky.
GF is currently bottom of the barrel and Is so by a significant margin.
Comments
he did not ,but GWFs specially destros need some buffs.Both pvp and pve.
It feels hypocritical to argue you don't have shoes, when someone has no feet. Just saying.
So only one class is allowed to be bad off ? If gwf had 2 max dmg and gf had 1 max dmg does that mean that gf players shouldn't be allowed to complain ?
There is threads on many classes, i also feel gwf could do with some changes but then you should be spending your time on them threads trying to help the class out, not on here.
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Well, for some reason there is this brilliant idea of merging the forums for 2 different classes. We're like the gypsies of neverwinter, GF and GWF, we can't afford our own room. Btw, I completely agree with you but, really GFs aren't "left out" anywhere. Open your eyes a bit.
As I said, we have a list of many, many bugs that hasn't been fixed. These affect the gf gameplay in pvp hugely.
But anyway just because we are decent for pvp and in a better place for pve doesn't make us fine. Our pve is just being a buff bot, it's the most boring gameplay ever and we need a huge fix for pvp in my opinion so yes we are left out, gf needs looking at and fixing.
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No, it doesn't, but when others can't even claim the word "decent" anymore I think the OP should be more careful when passing complaints like that. Your class is far from "useless" or "left out", while other classes *cough* can really use both words and be spot on.
Yeah we are very far from useless and are actually useful in pve now unlike past mods and in a decent place for pvp but we do require many fixes. Pve is just boring to me, the only real way a gf is good for pve is by being a buff bot and that isn't a fun way to play. And i test in 1v1s and in pvp all the time and all these bugs are annoying as hell. I can't believe they wasn't fixed in a whole mod -.-
Everytime i use lunging strike or bull charge my char does a weird double animation like hes having a fit an it makes my guard not activate for about 2 seconds so i get CC'd easily. Griffons wrath loses charges all the time so i don't bother using what could be our best power. My guard sometimes doesn't activates or even drops randomly and other times CC just goes right though.
Playing a gf is a lot of skill but also now a huge amount of luck because if one of these glitches happen then your chances of dying have just flew up.
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That's just wrong and the worst part is you know its wrong but you keep re-telling it as if its true in hope of buffs to your class. No need replying to this since it matters not what you say at this point, we all know how it goes and how folks talk when they defend 'their' class.
Now here is the reaility fresh from Mod 5 Doms. Godmode was on my team in a dom last night ( random q for me ), his gear is pretty much what my own GF has or any other bis GF for that matter. The dude dominated the match with the most kills and zero deaths with my 20k PVP Intimidation Sentinel present. After I was done with my GWF I logged my GF. He is a Conq and I played him as one and I kicked alot of a**.
So no, the GF can be very offensive and work wonders in PVP, same GF can be a very productive tank in PVE as well. What more do you want ? Lemme guess, you want to kill those crazy good rangers and now rogues right ? Well, get in line 'cause nobody kills them but them. As for your list of bugs etc here is a tip, the GWF's sprint is super slow to respond resulting in cc taking effect that should have been avoided and we rubberband all the time. The GWF unstop is slow to activate and can be easily interrupted not to mention its bloody short.
So enough of the ' I want my class to end all other classes ' mentality, its what led us to this stinking pile of s** we sit in currently. Someone like you who considers himself a skilled player of his class, goes around writing guides etc and generally seeks to be accepted as some sort of authority on the GF class should not talk HAMSTER like that.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I meant to say "the only way a gf is good for PVE is to be a buff bot". not pvp. I thought that would have been a clear mistake lol
Not sure where i ever asked for buff on any post so please repost that.......
I said gf was in a decent place for pvp, because we are.
I play my gf and i always notice some annoying bug in EVERY single match.
Also yes for pve gf is buff bot. our dps isn't as good as other classes so what else can we do ? its the truth lol do you ever see a party ask for a dps gf ?? nope because the best powers gf has is ITF and KV, 2 buff powers......
I don't want buffs and anyone who can read or knows me will agree. I just want bug fixes and a way to play pve and not be a buff bot, simple.
EDIT: So please don't put words in my mouth. The amount of time is have been on threads saying that cw should get a power back that goes through our block or that tr needs buffs ect. I have only ever wanted balance and that's what i have always asked for. The thing that bugs me most is that you probably know this since your on the forums alot so why would you say that i want my class to be best when you know that's not true...
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Its your bloody role to tank the damage in PVE not dish it out Mr. Main@Tank. Failure to acknowledge even that while claiming your class is somehow "weak/lacking/left behind" gives me the right to assume what you really want is, to put it bluntly, to be OP... well, wrong class for the task..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Nope, again i have never asked for buffs, you just seem to want an argument for some strange reason.
And i didnt say we was weak or lacking. Just that we need bug fixes and not not be a buff bot for pvp.
We are a guardian FIGHTER so we should have other options. Also if we are the tank then why is our deflection lower than almost every class ? Because we aren't just meant for tanking, that's also why we have a conqueror path, to you know....deal dmg. If that path is for dealing dmg then give us that option in pve, or a way to not just slam 2 powers on and sit there gaining aggro while everyone else can have the fun of actually killing things.
I also find it funny that most people on the forums who don't seem to read posts always uses the " you want your class to be OP" argument. That clearly isn't working here man because them words you are just putting in my mouth, i have never mentioned that anywhere. So please if you want to disagree with me then come up with some good points not just make up lies.
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Well, get in line, we all need bug fixes. This isn't exactly a bug free game isn't it? While at it, apart from any bugs, you clearly accept that GFs are in a good place, both pve and pvp wise. You also are far from buff bots in pvp. So again with my original point to the OP, such threads like this talking about GFs being "left out" are hypocritical and somewhat insulting. No, you're not left out when you have some bugs that everyone has, you are left out when you are USELESS, like GWFs are as we speak. It's just that almost everyone has adapted now and keeps a CW/SW alt and the fact that generally GWFs don't cry as much. Perhaps that's why we always get the bad end of the shaft, maybe we should become crybabies like our CW friends, it seems to work wonders for them. In the end it just feels absurd to see cries like this thread from classes that are really sufficient and decent in all the game's content, when others are under-performing so much. It seems narrow minded and egotistical.
PS: I was one of the first to ask for GF boosts when they were useless once upon a time.. I wasn't creating threads that my class is left out.
Get in line ? I posted a thread about bug fixes a long time ago and not one has been fixed. I have been in line for a long time lol and still waiting for about 20 bugs with the gf class to be finally fixed.
Ok first i would only say "left out" int he way that they seem to have forgotten all the bugs with this class, not that we are weak in any way but saying a class cant ask for bug fixes or changes because another class has them too makes no sense at all. If you dont want gf bugs to get fixed because gwf has issues then go and ask for fixes for gwf class instead of being on this thread bro.
I get that all classes have bugs obviously but i play a gf and i KNOW the bugs that affect my class so i will try to get them fixed because some bugs affect some players more than others. Depending on what skills and stuff they use.
So to some up. I have never asked for buffs, i want balance in pvp. I would like bug fixes to my class that are really annoying me and i would like more pve options so i don't have to stick KV and ITF on all the time and be a buff bot (Yes I could go dps too but whats the points when a cw or another dps class could just take my place).
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I tried to make clear my reaction was mostly about how the OP treated the subject. About the bugs, yes, every class has them and waited for them to get fixed for ever. It's one thing to ask for them to fix bugs and you should, and another thing to create drama and exaggerate the situation only to grab attention like the OP did. I'll make my leave now, so people can discuss about the "GF being left out" because that is the name of the thread, and perhaps like you recommended me to, go and ask yourself for fixes for the GF in other threads and leave responses such as mine to threads such as this. Have a great day, left out GFs. I feel for you.
Why should PvP be different from PvE? Really liked mod2 when all of the powers did what they said. I never felt like a buff bot, did *some* damage (conq capstone, villain's menace, etc.), & was actually enjoyable.
Not sure where the "left out" part comes from, though. Left out of what? Not getting a complete revamp of all of our feats? Not getting a rework to lessen damage taken while blocking? You sound very angry, but I'm not sure as to the point here. Everything I've seen is you asking other people to prove their point. What IS your actual point?
Hey, i've done this fight on GF too. My block seems a little slow, but i'm on an average laptop with wireless, so it could be that or it could be my fault. I'm not in the habit of blaming the game when i don't block something. I probably didn't pay close enough attention to the mobs.
Now for me, I like lunging strike and threatening rush. Plus if your team is GOOD they will let you go in first by waiting a whole 2 seconds, thus solving most of the problem.
Of course there are plenty of bad teams and bad GF out there.
When i die it's normally because of the SF bug :S or someone doesn't dodge and b/c of KV and i get smashed.
That said I really like this fight on my GF, it's fun and exciting! so I'm a fan and I don't mind it.
I am also ok with bad players dying, death is a great teacher.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
On this note, my instigator is MUCH better in Mod 5. Finally i feel not useless! Yey!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It's my *role* to take your damage? NO! It is your PRIVILEGE that I am taking your damage. I am sacrificing my DPS so you can stay alive.
Look at a cleric. Its *role* is to heal, yet a righteous cleric has a pretty good chance of being Paingiver.
Here's a hint, the only way a GF tanks more than my GWF is by running KV and at the same time a GWF also does his fare share of dps. You picked a class envisioned as a main tank, wanting to turn him into a dps machine while retaining his toughness and tanking tools is not gonna work - the devs already told us that much. The fighter classes are in a very good place in both pve and pvp. A Sentinel will outdps a GF but a Sentinel can never tank as good or buff as good and thats how it should be. You shieldbashing folks who actually support the OP are delusional. So, you can forget those pipe dreams of "privileges" and "sacrificing DPS in order to tank", cause they are just that, dreams. We installed a RPG, we all pick a role and stick to it. If you dont like it, play an alt
PS: Leave the DC out of this
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You JUST said the *only* way a GF tanks better than your GWF is by buffing. Is that right? No it's not. GF should be WAY tougher than a fighter class without a shield, and as a DPS class your DR should be 40% MAX, and only with a top GS. GWF, as a DPS should *never* be able to replace a GF in a group as tank, same as the other DPS classes which is well in mod 5, everybody.
I agree. This has already been proven in previous mods by the most OP class ever-GWF, which made all other classes unnecessary BOTH in PVE and PVP.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
The GF is way tougher, KV is not some random buff and what you're saying is old news. KV is the GF toughness spread onto his party.
You dont get what tanking even means - its not just being hard to kill and fighting on the front lines, we have class mechanics here, time to learn them already. To be a productive tank for your team you intercept the damage mobs deal to them. You may accomplish this by:
1) take the mobs attention and keep them on you - but a Sentinel dies in epic LoL/Tuern this way unless he gets help
2) Be a GF with KV on
3) be a cc machine who "tanks" for his team by keeping the mobs controlled
Keeping the above in mind here is the breakdown. A GWF rushes in, grabs initial aggro and does some dps ( huge on geared toons, average on average gear toons ). After that he needs either healing, control support or a real tank to take over with aggro/kv or he falls. This is what separates the GF tank from the GWF tank, this is why I say the GF is the best tank while the GWF can do damage and some aggro management but ultimitely both have their own moment of glory. What you seem to want is a GF who does what a GWF can do + does what a GF can do... sorry no
Clear now ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Never. Your role as a tank may be threatened by say, a DC because healing in all MMOs tends to generate more threat than damage does. And DC has some survivability. GWF may try. He will run at the boss and scream "Leeeeeeroy Jenkins" and die halfway in some dragonling's AOE.
Old news does't make it right. GWF DR shouldn't, as a DPS class with no shield-be THAT high. Period.
And you have no idea about my knowledge or experience with tanking, I've tanked in games like this since Everquest. Stop calling everyone stupid and look at the hypocrisy of your own statements.
Now explain the reason why a GWF, as a DPS class, should have higher base DR than a GF?
Expert job of taking things out of context, I was repeating what the previous poster said.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Im done explaining basics to you as you are apparently an expert who knows his stuff. So, go figure this game out on your own and talk about your class, your role and how you feel you dont have the tools to perform it. Leave other classes alone
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Says the GWF that's been telling GF's what's up. Pot/kettle. Every single one of your posts in this thread is about another class.........
And you can't/won't answer my question because a truthful answer is not in your best interests.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
Im a fighter player yes, unlike some folks though I do not discriminate so I play one of each. It clear as day that both fighters have the tools to perform their roles in PVE and both fighters can be extremely strong in PVP. Only a blind fool would want to argue that a fighter class is being "left behind" at the moment. That or a troll, take your pick
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Yes, the GF with KV can get up to 70%, but that comes with taking half of everyone's damage. GWF can get 80+ taking only his own damage. Why?
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
I don't know of a top end group that would ever turn a GF away, I certainly don't.
Buffer, tank, taunter, stupid hard to kill the GF is a very flexible class that pays back its party in droves.
Any who say GF needs help in PvE right now is just whu???
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
GF need more baseline Deflect, Crit, Armor Pen.
10-20% more deflect
5-10% more crit
10-15% more armor pen.
After that increase at will dmg by at least 100% and Increase top end wpn dmg by about 20-30. We already have the slowest run speed slowest attack speed and outside of lunging strike and bulls rush very limited mobility.
Frankly the Profound 4p bonus 12.5% increase runspeed should be added to all existing 4p bonuses.
I have 50k life 49% Damage resistance and 29% deflect and less than an hour ago I had a CW almost one shot me, left me with less than 3k life, I died to the next attack. I have had the exact same thing happen at the hands of TR, GWF. I have had HR hit me twice almost instantly and take 70% of my life and even if that were not the case I do not have the dps to kill one 1v1 if they use their disengages right and simply regen. DC currently are now also an Impossible fight, more dmg than me more healing and just as tanky.
GF is currently bottom of the barrel and Is so by a significant margin.