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Cut the CW, SW and HR range in HALF! CUT the range IN HALF!
elmoregemstone
Member Posts: 372 Arc User
Their super range is OP! and needs to be Cut in half for pvp. Its Perfect for balance!
These 3 class are OP af. They have all the power, defenses and Hp as a Melee class, plus MORE!
TR needs a nerf on range as well but not as much as the Invisibility.
This is the start of a campaign the end the OP reign of <bleep>
These 3 class are OP af. They have all the power, defenses and Hp as a Melee class, plus MORE!
TR needs a nerf on range as well but not as much as the Invisibility.
This is the start of a campaign the end the OP reign of <bleep>
Post edited by elmoregemstone on
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Comments
However, I think we should rather make them all melee.
Range is indeed very overpowered. Especially when those CWs stay on top of pillars and nuke poor melee without any defense to death.
So unfair.
no. range = defence
your idea cant stand
For a melee class playing in 12-18 gs range is really unbearable if these two classes are present ,but more problem is CWs.
And ofcourse i agree that range=defence.
In an analogy GWF/GF are like fully armored hoplites against 18th century musketeers.They might win if they get close.
But the cws control and dps is so much overbuffed ,that this really never happens.
The counter argument is ofcourse the usual bs ,that in one vs one might have a chance.Domination is 5vs 5.With all these ranges and cc ,one cw just needs to cc the melees and any other team8 can kill them in seconds.We are near in mod5.
Long are the days of tenacity and defence that mattered.The strong point of melees -defence-is almost irrelevant nowadays.If you are cc you are dead period.With all the dots and the glyphs.
Not to mention what happens if you have 2 cws ,or 2 cws and SWs.Most of the cw community does not understand this simply cause they do not play a GWF/GF/DC to know.(and i don't meant your 10k gs alts ,don't start on this).
Plus there is not a core game design restriction in to how tanky a CW can be made.The defence mechanisms are available to all classes.AC gives only 0.5 dr.A tiny laughable advantage.That is how CWs facetank fighters.Simply the game allows them these.
Plus game gave them dots,which melees do not have,and range and dodges.And immunity frame after dodges.And self heals.
^^
All these things GWFs/GFs do not have.And ofcourse you cannot hide the sun from the sky.The leaderboard is witness of this situation.NW PVP from a fantasy oriented pvp has changed to a STO laser battle.
I know what the cw horde and the legolas army will tell. "L2P", "gear up" etc.I will not argue with them is pointless.You cannot beat a numerous hungry hyenas pack.The people that play these classes chosen them for a reason,and that was easy play.Ofcourse they will never accept this ,but they will find pseudoarguments and fancy expressions to distract or ridicoule their opponent.
But the truth is bitter:With every mod,while these 2 classes dominate,fewer and fewer players come to pvp.The reason is very simple really:
Broken PVP made by broken classes that are in abundance:CWs and HRs.
edit:I am not against Int Sent GWFs.it is their only way to survive.leave IN GWFs alone.And i do not play a GWF.
ah i forgot to mention some thing else... CWs SHOULD NO LONGER IGNORE 66% of TENACITY for CC purposes.
Now im speaking for a guardian fighters point of view. When i fight cw i feel they have too much defence for being a ranged class with being able to have 50k+ hp and shield but then they cant go through my guard so i feel a few things could change for balance.
SW is nearly impossible to hit with there infinite run, it requires very fast cooldowns to catch them at range an much skill with timing but they aren't the best class for pvp by far and i never really have an issue with them.
Hr is just annoying though lol, Long range until they dash towards you bout 200 feet to boar charge you into the ground then dot you to death in seconds. Hr is the only class that i feel should have less range(if they go combat path), but would that really make a difference anyway ?
And btw, i LOVE it when a ranged class sits up on the pillars hitting me. I just jump in mid air, target them and do bull charge, they go flying off and i can do my rotation xD
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Too hard man.
Just remove the pillars. Make CW/SW range about 15', seems about fair, why should they have more range than FLS? CWs so very tanky with Shield, well let them tank for real then and feel the suffering of melee classes.
Will be just better for everyone. Them pesky ranged classes should really learn a lesson.
Yes and GF should have doubled stamina consumption on block because reduced damage with cc immune is just OP!
GWF atm is performing poor yes it can stun but unstoppable is just a joke now.
All true man, all so true.
Suggestions:
1 teleport/30 secs for CW. 1 teleport/min for HR cause they are tanky.
SW should move no faster than run speed, or melee cannot get to them.
But GF half stamina efficiency? Noooooo.... they must have DOUBLE stamina efficiency, and anvil damage tripled. FLS made an 80' AoE splash with GF/ or GWF at the epicenter. Something like small nuclear explosion that first stuns everybody, then lifts them in the air and prones them.
GWF underpowered too, so increase damage during Unstoppable for 300%! Give IBS a prone and Takedown 80" range, point&click like Icy Rays.
Would be awesome.
"Okay, let's end the reign of <bleep>. We would need to make a list of such things for all classes and cases, of course."
Totally agree.
"- GF and GWF stun chains last longer than CW control chains. So those need to be halved in duration. It's Perfect for balance!"
Lies.GWF and Gfs power do not last longer than CWs CCs.In addition the GWF/GFs powers ,require the toons to be in melee range of CWs.That means overcoming /evading 80s range and then outsmarting the CWs dodges.After that to project when the immunity frames -damage immunity really,of CWs ends.
So the comparison is:CW that CCs you from 80s range.
and:GFs/GWFs that must avoid the cc of cws,come to melee(while being attacked from all corners),outsmart the CW dodges,and then predict the right time in 0.3-0.8 secs ,when the immunity frame of CW ends and BEFORE the cw casts power or dodge again.otherwise the CC of GWF/GF goes wasted.
"- GFs and GWFs move really fast for how heavy their armor is. Their speed should be halved. It's Perfect for balance!"
Gfs actually are the slowest class around.Seriously ,you cannot have problem with GFs speed.GWFs wear chainmail and their speed comes at a price:reduced DR.Also that speed got buffed in compensation for the brutal nerf on unstoppable.The nerf that came after requests by the CW horde.
"- The ability of GFs to stand around on a node and tank for a really long time holding block up allows them to contest way too easily. Block stamina drain should be doubled. It's Perfect for balance!"
This ability is the sole priviledge of protector tree and comes at a heavy cost:They cannot kill anything,even proned/stunned SW.I though you are experienced and knew that already.Your ignorance about this well known fact(even to new in pvp) brings me despair
"- The ability of GWFs to maintain near constant cc immunity means other classes have issues landing cc on them. So remove cc immunity from GWF spring. It's Perfect for balance!"
This is a lie.GWFs cannot maintain constant CC immunity.There are only some builds ,but none uses them for a simple reason:The offset is GWF sprinters cannot kill any other melee,be it HR/TR/GF/Sent GWF.
"- GWFs and GFs are nonmagical melee classes and yet they have powers that hit 30' out like Frontline Surge. Those powers need their range halved. It's Perfect for balance!"
Look.in the spirit of your proposal...So if we stick to reality then your clother robed CWs should not have 50k hp ,nor 2800 defence nor "shield".Shield"...."shield"........If the game allows them to have "shield" ,then yes melees should have a limited range.The greek hoplites in marathon sprinted and charged afterwards for 1 1/2 km running under 44C wearing plate armor.If you want to go with archetypes.So lunging /FLS are in the essense for your spirit for me.
"- GWFs and GFs hit really, really hard with powers like IBS and Anvil of Doom. Those powers need their damage halved. It's Perfect for balance!"
these are actually powers that require melee range.i could use your stereotype and just answer you "stay at range or L2P'.But i will not.I will answer properly.
first of all some of your att wills with glyphs HIT HARDER THAN Aod or IBS.I have seen Cw dots on my log of 2.2k damage.Multiply by 5 and you have an at will that does 11k damage.The aod on an average GF hits about 5,5k damge on non bonus ,10-11k on bonus.Average Gfs have around 3,2-3,8k power.The 90% of them.Going higher ,and considering the bad armor sets ,GFs will luck arm pen.So thier damage concerning pvp is relatively stable.
Ibs hit about the same non critted.6-7k damge.Critted it can go to 13-14k damage.
Big deal.let's be honest .I have seen ice knives and storm spells eating 30-50% hp of sents and Gfs.Aod and IBS are balanced now.Some of your dots and procs are not.
"Now, here's a little thing: If a ranged class is fighting you from maximum range, that means that they aren't fighting on node and you are (if you aren't on the node, you are doing it wrong). That means you are winning. If you are somehow getting killed by equally geared ranged characters standing on node while you are 80' away, you need to seriously reconsider your build."
Let's take these one at a time:
"If a ranged class is fighting you from maximum range, that means that they aren't fighting on node"
Wrong.You did not thought the simple fact that can sit on a pylar.They are not on a node yet if you want to challenge it you must come into their range.And their cc range while they are invulnerable.
Wrong.You did not thought the case where CW is already on a node and you go to challenge it.Specially annoying if it is the mid-max range.
Wrong.You did not thought the case where you are in node while fighting melee and cw is on range.indirectly he challenges the node.Cause while you are in node you don't fight one,but two:The melee and the ranged.Typical no,but in essense CW is challenging the node.
"That means you are winning"
No.that is mantra and words of mod1/2 pvp.This is over.This is obsolete.If you are in a node you are not "winning".Not in the sense that was used in the past.
With so much dps around,specially ranged one,and tenacity becoming obsolete due to very little gains,if you stand in node while you are hitted by ranged ,you do not "win" cause the time you will be alive is shorten dramatically compared to the past.No class (we are talking about melees) can hold its own in a node alone.Mod2 Regen GWF Sents are over.GF protectors are easy picks to a mediocre cw.He just has to dodge behind him.Game over.With red glyphs/assailant and all the other dots ,GFs with 50+ hp are melted in 4-5 secs when they are controlled.
"If you are somehow getting killed by equally geared ranged characters standing on node while you are 80' away, you need to seriously reconsider your build."
I see.So,according to your logic if i go help me team8 in base ,clear it and then with my team8 go to challenge mid,is my build obsolete?
What a poor selection of words you got!!
The cws will already have mid.What is your suggestion then? to stand still.To wait untill their mom calls them for launch?
or the NW client crash?
Experienced/mediocre CWs when face melees they just "triangle" them:try to circle around them.With three dodges .80s range ,is not very difficult to achieve.Instead it is ridicoulous easy.The GF shield blocks only at certain ancles.Not even 90% i would say.
"You may also want to spend a little time playing each class to get a better feeling for what's strong and not. "
i did.Why you suspect i did not?You have a GF right?except your CW.Do you feel that against a team that has similar geared CWs :is beter to you or it would be better to face melees?Other GWf and GFs?What do you select as opponents?
Personally me,and other GFs that i have in my friend list ,when we see a team employing above one CW we are "oh shiit".
We are not uber geared ,but we are the average of Gf pvp population.17-19k gs.
I transfer you the thoughts of GFs.CWs are our worst enemy in domination.I do not count HRs ,they are a global problem.
In the beggining of Mod4 i had in my frinds list 4 dominion champions GFs.All are left.None plays anymore.Cause of pvp failures and unhapiness.We all were at 22-70 pages of leaderboard and now we are all obsolete.It is not a matter of "l2P" or gear.it is a matter that thr game took a turn ( the game mechanics) that favour ranged/dot classes.And GWF/GFs are not included in these.
Example:I teamed up with a dominion champion rank10 GWF destroyer from mod3 and we qued up together.
i felt sorry for him
GWF/GF are becoming obsolete with each mod.
Every dps increase mechanism (glyphs,dots) in every mod,while defence mechanisms remain the same or nerfed,leads mathematically to domination of ranged high dps classes.
Well said, I concur on all your points as should any sane person capable of basic logical thinking who isnt blinded by bias. I know a certain propaganda artist who loves to use the simple method of "repeat a lie enough times it becomes true" to ask for buffs for his CW and nerfs to everyone else ( but mainly GWFs ) and he will definitely chew you up on this. As it happens he already visited this thread and tried to chalk it up as a joke in post# 2.
Officially @magiquepurse, you and the people like you are large part of the reason this game is in its current sorry state
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Either way this thread is hilarious thank god you guys arn't in charge of balance
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
i am NOT compensating for anything, just so you know. It's like a horse.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Yeah I also bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki and have 100 soon-to-no-longer-be-virgin wives in Africa and I use baby seal skins to decorate my home interior.
Sorry for making this game such a horrific experience for you poorly understood melees.
*crocodile tears*
Attempt to sway us from the real issue denied. You need a better cover-up than weak sarcasm
Deployment of additional CWs won't help either
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
If its not "the best cw in the game"..that the best you can do ?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
What more I can say?
Already suggested to make FLS a nuke centered on the caster and make ranged classes 10' max.
Remove pillars too.
I suppose I'll think of more buffs though since probably not enough to compensate for melee weaknesses overall
BRB thinking.
Oh ok, just fyi, next time you try thinking do use your brain not your bottom
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Sternly noted.
I call bull**** on you.
What class can stand there on a node while a CW spams them from 80'?
And no,standing on a node while you get your HP pool evaporated in a cycle will not win you the match.
Any smart player will go after the CW instead of taking the full cycle and dying to storm spell/assailant procs and red glyphs from the at will spam between cycles.
I love when a melee stands on the node and lets me kill him from range with my 13k scrubby CW. I guess they all need to look at their build though huh?
Might be hard to implement on rangers though.
anyway this thread reminded me about heyrogers answer about GF - "main problem with them that they can not run".
Anyway range is required for ranges chars. Recently there was a CW that had similar cry but - why range chars have so few range and so little damage.
Just for info in D&D 4 archers - eg HR in archer spec - they have longest range. CW have long - middle while most effective spells require middle range. Warlock are same except they had more defense mechanisms that wizards and can benefit from from mid range more.
BTW for rangers /CW - at wills have longer range for CW now.
Obviously GF have shield and GWF have immunity run for a reason too in this game )
The Cw horde was here ,now the legolas army lieutenants start to show up
Posted by the damien:
"Anyway range is required for ranges chars. "
is combat ranger a range class in essence?83s range?Seriously?lunging strike that hits pitifully has 60s range.And yet combat HRs have 83s range.the most tanky class in the game with 50% deflect and 30-35% DR and 83s charge range?really?
"Just for info in D&D 4 archers - eg HR in archer spec - they have longest range."
HR archers are not the problem.the problem is the regen/lifesteal Hr tanks that rush from 83s range,boar charge(stun for one sec after prone ,confirmed bug) and then finish with dots and foxshift.
"CW have long - middle while most effective spells require middle range."
In NW CWs can have their max power spells at max range.And going through rocks/stairs in domination.Startrec.Scotty beam me up.
"Obviously GF have shield and GWF have immunity run for a reason too in this game" )
the reason was to be protected by range classes.Since then their defences remained together ,while the ranged classes dps/survivability(chaos magic) increased.
I am not directly asking for cutting in half of their range.
But either their range reduced to 60s or their defence/dps decrease.(Lifesteal rework as a mechanism is what we might need)
You cannot have the whole of the pie and your dog well fed.
You obviously know that combat HR is combat by the name. Pretty much a striker. Not off tank or tank.
Archers are not a problem cause they just can do nothing with their small range and no way of keeping even it. After constructive nerf and buff to those guys with big sticks in their hands (:-D) and shields that can not be penetrated in any way - archer is dead meat with no CC.
Or all you want is just mod 3 GWF run /roar/kill rotation again?
Well not all feel like they want to be naked Conans with big sticks running all over the place. GWF have great "chicken run" that they mostly use to run away btw. So please keep in to the subject. I know that CW cry is terrible thing.
Yet range is not an issue for combat HR - we need to engage anyway fast. Combat is nerfed too a bit.
Only one who really benefits from range now is CW. Yet Im not aware of their current state.
Or you are saying that CWs can put control on you while GWF does immunity run to them? Or you have too few stamina to run on full bar to them? What stops you from decreasing that range at the moment?
Keep it constructive)
just lol @ OP.