Master of Flame or Spellstorm?

jerrocko · November 2014

Didn't think this was such a hot potato, but since it is, let's poll it and see who votes for what!! Feel free to explain your vote if you like, but please leave out the "trust me's" and the arrogance, thanks.

angrysprite · November 2014

Kind of a silly question as "best" is subjective at... er, best. I'd have phrased the poll as "Which do you like the best?" (For me: Master of Flame).

A more accurate comparison would be that they are *different*. I have two Stellstorms and one Master of Flame, readying my second MoF. I enjoy both of them immensely. The SS version is really more like burst damage - like a Crocodile that bursts onto it's prey - but can peter-out energy-wise very quickly. So it's very strong and fast for a short burst, then it must rest and recuperate.

The Master of Flame version is just a steady, contiguous dishing of damage. More like the big cats (lion, panther and the rest) and can assume a sustained chase and very high speeds, but their bite is nowhere near as strong as a crocodile. See the difference?

They both are deadly against their prey, they just have different approaches to killing it. Another way to think of it: tortoise and hare: one is faster in a burst, then stops to rest, the other is slow, but consistent. LOL

This is why I did't vote: because you neglected a fourth option in your poll: Both are equal through different approaches. and I *do* have an option (you should have split option 3 into 3 and 4). However, if I were forced to vote: I'd choose MoF - because it's just as fun and is not "just another CW" in terms of status quo.

hefisdo · November 2014

I did choose Spellstorm because I like the 'lightning theme', but I prefer the MoF gameplay by far.

I'm not going to talk about performance because that ends in sh**posting.

chemboy613 · November 2014

I actually posted "the same."

Granted I play a MoF, and I always will because of my personal style.

That said, they are both different and both have merits.

For an analysis of the two paragon paths, you can see my article here:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?779431-Spellstorm-V-Master-of-Flame-Some-testing-theorycrafting-and-thoughts

You know, there are android phones and iPhones. They both make great, incredible phones. Can we say one is better than the other? Some people will argue strongly for one side or the other, but in the end both phones are excellent and do great work. (personally I'm an iPhone person). There is not a "better phone" there is a different phone.

MoF and SS are like that too - they are both excellent, have excellent damage, and do some things great. I don't think there is a better path, just different paths. Feel free to read my guides on both paths btw - I think you should pick and play what you love to play.

ghoulz66 · November 2014

I love using storm pillar but it's slow and pretty much will be inferior to scorching burst with it being almost unable to proc spell storm in mod 5. That alone weighs heavily on my enjoyment.

jerrocko · November 2014

angrysprite wrote: »

Kind of a silly question as "best" is subjective at... er, best. I'd have phrased the poll as "Which do you like the best?" (For me: Master of Flame).

A more accurate comparison would be that they are *different*. I have two Stellstorms and one Master of Flame, readying my second MoF. I enjoy both of them immensely. The SS version is really more like burst damage - like a Crocodile that bursts onto it's prey - but can peter-out energy-wise very quickly. So it's very strong and fast for a short burst, then it must rest and recuperate.

The Master of Flame version is just a steady, contiguous dishing of damage. More like the big cats (lion, panther and the rest) and can assume a sustained chase and very high speeds, but their bite is nowhere near as strong as a crocodile. See the difference?

They both are deadly against their prey, they just have different approaches to killing it. Another way to think of it: tortoise and hare: one is faster in a burst, then stops to rest, the other is slow, but consistent. LOL

This is why I did't vote: because you neglected a fourth option in your poll: Both are equal through different approaches. and I *do* have an option (you should have split option 3 into 3 and 4). However, if I were forced to vote: I'd choose MoF - because it's just as fun and is not "just another CW" in terms of status quo.

Can't get every option in there, though I did almost put an "other." The "best" is as defined by each person, for whatever reason and I left it open for anyone to explain it as they might feel a need, as you did.
I've always said I prefer the Flamer because it's more fun to play, though I normally don't prefer 'fire' powers and in the end, they're both very much the same with all of the cold powers and arcane damage. The lightning here is more limited than the fire in range on one key power, if the cone blast was an all-around-me spell instead of just in-front, I might still be a SS. But it's not and I'm not.
I started with Spelly and moved to Flamey cause I think it's cooler and thus more fun.

jerrocko · November 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

I actually posted "the same."

Granted I play a MoF, and I always will because of my personal style.

That said, they are both different and both have merits.

For an analysis of the two paragon paths, you can see my article here:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?779431-Spellstorm-V-Master-of-Flame-Some-testing-theorycrafting-and-thoughts

You know, there are android phones and iPhones. They both make great, incredible phones. Can we say one is better than the other? Some people will argue strongly for one side or the other, but in the end both phones are excellent and do great work. (personally I'm an iPhone person). There is not a "better phone" there is a different phone.

MoF and SS are like that too - they are both excellent, have excellent damage, and do some things great. I don't think there is a better path, just different paths. Feel free to read my guides on both paths btw - I think you should pick and play what you love to play.

Good analogy, I have a cheapo phone that's just a phone, ha ha. Why? Because it's what works for me same as the Master (I don't even like having that much of a tracer/leash on me, hand held computers that are obsolete two months later…no thanks). I'm glad to see that everyone feels the same, though again, "better" is for each person to define. For me, it's the one I enjoy most, that's the 'better' one, not that it's some sort of DPS/paingiver/(other bizarre acronym) leader necessarily, though I think that's the role of wizards in D/D. I don't even try to keep track of all of that as it's going. It was nice to see my name at the top of a chart once, but since those queues don't give XP and the prizes are kind of lousy, too, it's all about fun or why play? It'd be nice to find compatible players to build a specific team/party and see what we can do together, but I don't spend any time trying to organize it. Never even considered any guilds, either, and have yet to try PvP, just to have done it once.

c1k4ml3kc3 · November 2014

ghoulz66 wrote: »

I love using storm pillar but it's slow and pretty much will be inferior to scorching burst with it being almost unable to proc spell storm in mod 5. That alone weighs heavily on my enjoyment.

I just returned from a preview server and spell storm is easily the best thing on a SS CW mage.

Topic-wise, I play both SS CW and I'm building up a MoF because there're not enough of those around, and I like debuff method.

Damage-wise, always SS CW. It's not even a race there post-MOD4 patch.

shadow5930 · November 2014

Storm Pillar isn't spell storm. That's the at will that builds up a lightning bolt which will zap those around it.

I selected both. I enjoy burst SS. I enjoy the MoF relentless assault. Both have merits, good things and bad. So it's enjoyable to play both. Both are the best at what they do.. imho..

joocycuzzzzzz · November 2014

PVE: Both, Spellstorm brings the Zeus-Like-Damage while the MoF helps the group with DPS.

PVP: Spellstorm by far, no contest.

When I see a MoF that holds his own in PVP, I make sure to send him a PM complimenting him, beacause that paragon underperforms badly there.

A buff I would suggest to Fanning the Flame (a joke encounter honestly) is to make it do double damage when the target is below 40% HP (Just like Anvil) and make the enemy being unable to be revived when finished off, that would make the MoF more threatening, because right now... yeah.

c1k4ml3kc3 · November 2014

joocycuzzzzzz wrote: »

beacause that paragon underperforms badly there.

I'd disagree strongly with this one. You can't escape the DOT. Purified set + MoF ftw.

ghoulz66 · November 2014

shadow5930 wrote: »

Storm Pillar isn't spell storm. That's the at will that builds up a lightning bolt which will zap those around it.

I selected both. I enjoy burst SS. I enjoy the MoF relentless assault. Both have merits, good things and bad. So it's enjoyable to play both. Both are the best at what they do.. imho..

Didn't understand what I meant. Storm pillar will suck at procing spell storm in mod 5. The pillar itself does terrible damage and cannot crit. Scorching burst, light everything hit and deal DoT to all, not just zap one thing at a time for baby tickle damage.

jerrocko · November 2014

joocycuzzzzzz wrote: »

PVE: Both, Spellstorm brings the Zeus-Like-Damage while the MoF helps the group with DPS.

PVP: Spellstorm by far, no contest.

When I see a MoF that holds his own in PVP, I make sure to send him a PM complimenting him, beacause that paragon underperforms badly there.

A buff I would suggest to Fanning the Flame (a joke encounter honestly) is to make it do double damage when the target is below 40% HP (Just like Anvil) and make the enemy being unable to be revived when finished off, that would make the MoF more threatening, because right now... yeah.

Plus, have FF not 'melt' the character free of freeze, as it seems now. Fan Flaming is one of the dullest powers, as well as being too weak. I don't use it as MofF except for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> around.

jerrocko · November 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

I actually posted "the same."

Granted I play a MoF, and I always will because of my personal style.

That said, they are both different and both have merits.

For an analysis of the two paragon paths, you can see my article here:

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?779431-Spellstorm-V-Master-of-Flame-Some-testing-theorycrafting-and-thoughts

You know, there are android phones and iPhones. They both make great, incredible phones. Can we say one is better than the other? Some people will argue strongly for one side or the other, but in the end both phones are excellent and do great work. (personally I'm an iPhone person). There is not a "better phone" there is a different phone.

MoF and SS are like that too - they are both excellent, have excellent damage, and do some things great. I don't think there is a better path, just different paths. Feel free to read my guides on both paths btw - I think you should pick and play what you love to play.

BTW, that 2-3 second reset of freezing you mentioned awhile ago has been happening, at least to some levels of enemies. I noticed it today doing a queue. I died very shortly thereafter, dang it.

joocycuzzzzzz · November 2014

c1k4ml3kc3 wrote: »

I'd disagree strongly with this one. You can't escape the DOT. Purified set + MoF ftw.

RAW burst > Small DoT's.

I have both geared paragons.

I love the MoF gameplay (Furious Immolation daze > Oppressive Force's when you're an Oppressor).

But it simply doesn't compare to Spellstorm in PVP.

chemboy613 · November 2014

c1k4ml3kc3 wrote: »

I just returned from a preview server and spell storm is easily the best thing on a SS CW mage.

Topic-wise, I play both SS CW and I'm building up a MoF because there're not enough of those around, and I like debuff method.

Damage-wise, always SS CW. It's not even a race there post-MOD4 patch.

When testing on preview - SS burst is absolutely amazing. While they are in EotS they do INSANE damage.

However, when EotS is over the damage is underwhelming. My tests show that MoF is actually slightly more sustained DPS, but it's even DPS where as SS will have spikes of huge DPS and valleys of low DPS.

chemboy613 · November 2014

joocycuzzzzzz wrote: »

PVE: Both, Spellstorm brings the Zeus-Like-Damage while the MoF helps the group with DPS.

PVP: Spellstorm by far, no contest.

When I see a MoF that holds his own in PVP, I make sure to send him a PM complimenting him, beacause that paragon underperforms badly there.

A buff I would suggest to Fanning the Flame (a joke encounter honestly) is to make it do double damage when the target is below 40% HP (Just like Anvil) and make the enemy being unable to be revived when finished off, that would make the MoF more threatening, because right now... yeah.

Ezra and i are working hard on feats and powers to send notes directly to the deves. You can bet a fanning the flame buff is in there somewhere. I can't believe they nerfed it.

chemboy613 · November 2014

joocycuzzzzzz wrote: »

RAW burst > Small DoT's.

I have both geared paragons.

I love the MoF gameplay (Furious Immolation daze > Oppressive Force's when you're an Oppressor).

But it simply doesn't compare to Spellstorm in PVP.

I know some people testing MoF to stop TR in PvP - i am not sure of the results of that.

I understand the analogy here, but i honestly don't PvP much. I would love to see some good MoF CWs in PvP, and honestly a PvP guide by someone who really knows what they are doing.

c1k4ml3kc3 · November 2014

joocycuzzzzzz wrote: »

RAW burst > Small DoT's.

I have both geared paragons.

I love the MoF gameplay (Furious Immolation daze > Oppressive Force's when you're an Oppressor).

But it simply doesn't compare to Spellstorm in PVP.

Raw burst doesn't mean much to you when HR's or TR's have epochal deflect and avoid pretty much anything. Since MoF's not really present in PvP often, they don't expect it and - bam - 5 of them caught with a daily. When they figure out what happened - ded.

joocycuzzzzzz · November 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

I know some people testing MoF to stop TR in PvP - i am not sure of the results of that.

I understand the analogy here, but i honestly don't PvP much. I would love to see some good MoF CWs in PvP, and honestly a PvP guide by someone who really knows what they are doing.

Pandora, a rogue you know, is my sister.

We went on preview and tested each path (Thaum,rene,opp)/power/load-out available for MoF's.

The conclusion is that MoF was just a slight annoyance and the TR regens from its DoT's while kit-ing around in stealth, and that Spellstorm is more threatening for a Rogue.

But ! Oppressor MoF is something awesome to have in a pug PVP team. If he feats furious immolation, then he can control an entire team with that daily (The Daze is MUCH better than Oppressive Force's), HUGE advantage except if the opponent is a GWF or TR.

Since you love MoF so much and want them to excel in PVP and PVE, I'm willing to help you increase the potential of that paragon in PVP, you can PM me in-game and we'll test things in preview if you're interested.

thefabricant · November 2014

I am voting for them both being the same, as depending on the player, the path that is correct for them could be either. For example, whilst one player might find that they can play SS better, another might find MoF more to their tastes. As the 2 paths play differently, it is correct to say that they both play well for what they are intended and the only way to determine, "the better CW" is not by paragon path, or gs, but by skill. However, as SS is more popular, it will win the vote.

pmabraham · November 2014

Good day:

While my opinion may change over time with changes to the CW, I agree with joocycuzzzzzz in that MOF typically underperforms in PVP. When I see an MOF in PVP, I typically will solo them (storm spell here), and win well over 90% of the time. In PVP, burst > dot.

Thank you.

jerrocko · November 2014

pmabraham wrote: »

Good day:

While my opinion may change over time with changes to the CW, I agree with joocycuzzzzzz in that MOF typically underperforms in PVP. When I see an MOF in PVP, I typically will solo them (storm spell here), and win well over 90% of the time. In PVP, burst > dot.

Thank you.

Looks like I'll have to go do some PvP at some point now and see for myself what's what since I can't see how the SS could be that much more powerful, esp. since freeze and chill powers are the same, and if timed right, can win it for either one. Or maybe I'm wrong.

jerrocko · November 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

When testing on preview - SS burst is absolutely amazing. While they are in EotS they do INSANE damage.

However, when EotS is over the damage is underwhelming. My tests show that MoF is actually slightly more sustained DPS, but it's even DPS where as SS will have spikes of huge DPS and valleys of low DPS.

OK, now I need to get back to Preview, so please tell me specifically how to reload my current character there, I can't find the instrux anywhere.

chemboy613 · November 2014

run google neverwinter preview, a forum post will come up - click on that.

lewstelamon01 · November 2014

Point blank: if you are being flamed or insulted, do not respond, rather send in a post report. Do not flame back and THEN report, as it will result in your being flagged for violation of RoC as well. Respect is not an optional part of this board.

jerrocko · November 2014

lewstelamon01 wrote: »

Point blank: if you are being flamed or insulted, do not respond, rather send in a post report. Do not flame back and THEN report, as it will result in your being flagged for violation of RoC as well. Respect is not an optional part of this board.

Will do, though why you didn't send me a PM instead of this post seems odd. He just sent me a very foul PM, so I simply reported it, no reply at all to him. Though, personally, I don't consider standing up to bullies as flaming anymore than taking back from a thief is stealing. And I believe I treated him with uncommon respect and restraint for such obnoxiousness.
But no matter, I won't do it again. I'll just report them as they come in.

Edit: Nah, I think I'll just take a long long break from it, if not a total absence. When things aren't applied equally, no amount of threats or tough talk mean squat to me, from anyone.

letojarred1 · November 2014

It seems that this lad likes to light up some things in this boards http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?785261-My-CW-MofFlame-Finally-Scored-Top-Damage-in-Party-Dungeon, and now this, the MoF vs SS is very subjective and will always vary on different play styles and preference. I have 3 CWs 2 PVE MoF/SS and an SS PVP.

When I like to top off the chart I'm rolling my SS (most of her pets are BiS for dps)
When I like to carry pugs I chose MoF for the job (most of her pets are BiS for control)
^
Different items/pet set up can make a huge difference in play style.
Playing my MoF feels smooth and guarantees your safety even your latency is spiking.
My SS on the other hand makes me keep spamming the shift for power and for better CAB, if no GF or HR is around.

jerrocko · November 2014

letojarred1 wrote: »

It seems that this lad likes to light up some things in this boards

Wrong, don't try to judge others.

chemboy613 · November 2014

I don't see why this topic results in so much flaming. Both specs play great? I don't get the anger.

Just because I play MoF doesn't mean I this SS is silly or stupid.

c1k4ml3kc3 · November 2014

I've started playing the MoF and it will probably be a Oppressor build with more WIS since I've found that control's been lacking post-MOD4.

As a MoF I've noticed that a slightly slower/defensive play will come in handy, which differs greatly from the extremely active play I've had with a SS CW.
Since MoF can't do as much damage as SS CW, the oppressor MoF is hands-down the best combination for control and debuffing.
On MoF I never or rarely have to use shield since I don't have to go close to the mobs, which is a positive side arcane-wise. I have great use from Entangling Force on Spell Mastery which is instant 5 arcane stacks followed by Conduit of Ice which somehow procs crits more often on at-wills.

I have to say that I've seen some very arrogant MoFs around, too, who wanted to completely play damage builds yet not utilizing any critical damage increase. But I think that the ratio on the servers is 80% SS CW (out of whom 50% are still living in MOD2 and wear 2+2 armor sets) - 20 % MoF (and usually not very good ones

).
I fathom that there're not many good CW players out there and the reason why they fail is their own arrogance and the unwillingness to adopt/change depending upon the situation.

Master of Flame or Spellstorm?

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