New Divine Cleric buffs and GF damage

arinathos · October 2014

I took a look at the new changes to the DC class on the preview server, and if the changes go live, it looks as if GF damage will be the worst of the seven classes by far.

The recent changes to the GF have made it a viable class again, but even a properly specced conquerer was still doing meh damage compared to the other classes. I'm a little worried that the new changes to the classes will once again make the GF the 5th wheel in the dungeon.

A GF is never going to do the damage of a GWF or a CW, and nor should it, but I'd think that a damage increase is now justified by the power creep of the other classes.

Thoughts?

grabmoore · October 2014

arinathos wrote: »

I took a look at the new changes to the DC class on the preview server, and if the changes go live, it looks as if GF damage will be the worst of the seven classes by far.

The recent changes to the GF have made it a viable class again, but even a properly specced conquerer was still doing meh damage compared to the other classes. I'm a little worried that the new changes to the classes will once again make the GF the 5th wheel in the dungeon.

A GF is never going to do the damage of a GWF or a CW, and nor should it, but I'd think that a damage increase is now justified by the power creep of the other classes.

Thoughts?

The DC changes aren't final. In fact DC is utterly broken in its current pts form. You might want to look at the max crit of the following ACT. This has been done by two DCs soloing a dragon.

GFs are a valuable part of current groups. Even if the new DCs outdps them on live server in the future, you still want to have his buffs and KV. Don't worry

inthere23 · October 2014

GF damage has always been a joke and still is a joke. We'll come in last on the paingivers but we'll still get picked up for groups because of our buffs. It would be nice to do damage ourselves, but you don't want to make GWF's obsolete, because it's getting very close to that now.

tribulationx · October 2014

It sounds like you're talking about sustained damage in PvE, in which case as long as you can generate adequate threat, you don't need to be dishing out lots of damage.

In PvP, however, conqueror GFs at my gs (17k) or higher do much more burst damage in a single rotation than I do on my Sentinel PvP GWF. MUCH more (and I have a 2H sword...so I fail to see how that's reasonable). They're tanks...so clearly they are fine. At higher gear scores you do tons of damage already, and you're asking for more? GFs should be tied with DCs for worst damage. WAI.

Also, there is more to this game than meters. (Not much more, granted, but still. Keep that chin up).

runonnike · October 2014

tribulationx wrote: »

It sounds like you're talking about sustained damage in PvE, in which case as long as you can generate adequate threat, you don't need to be dishing out lots of damage.

In PvP, however, conqueror GFs at my gs (17k) or higher do much more burst damage in a single rotation than I do on my Sentinel PvP GWF. MUCH more (and I have a 2H sword...so I fail to see how that's reasonable). They're tanks...so clearly they are fine. At higher gear scores you do tons of damage already, and you're asking for more? GFs should be tied with DCs for worst damage. WAI.

Also, there is more to this game than meters. (Not much more, granted, but still. Keep that chin up).

Actually, if you put your GF in a DPS path (conquerer), it has reason to have higher burst than a defensive GWF (sent).

Also, GF's should be doing more DPS than a cleric because All clerics have to heal. Some GF's want to DPS, while others want to buff.

beckylunatic · October 2014

runonnike wrote: »

All clerics have to heal.

But... why?

Doesn't it make just as much sense to say that *all* GFs have to tank? (I wish the DPSing GFs would purposely limit their threat generation, honestly. They won't tank but monsters still react to them as though they were.)

DC paragon feat trees are being redesigned to permit a DPS path. It's currently a bit... um... overtuned, say, but it's also not finalized.

qutsemnie · October 2014

When the days return that it is easier to do content when you replace a GF then when keep one, I will worry, but those days are not here at present, and I don't see this DC change making them return.

inthere23 · October 2014

Also, the way they're <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with astral shield mitigation groups will want us even more.

runonnike · October 2014

beckylunatic wrote: »

But... why?

Doesn't it make just as much sense to say that *all* GFs have to tank? (I wish the DPSing GFs would purposely limit their threat generation, honestly. They won't tank but monsters still react to them as though they were.)

DC paragon feat trees are being redesigned to permit a DPS path. It's currently a bit... um... overtuned, say, but it's also not finalized.

I'm sorry, phrasing. I meant that through their current trees/paths, they can't really do huge DPS. They are all designed to heal.

xen1912 · October 2014

it might not be common but a GF friend of mine usually gets either 2nd or 3rd place in paingiver. so i know its possible for GF's to deal good damage.

inthere23 · October 2014

Sure it's *possible* if you take out buffs and replace them with AOE's and damage encounters, also swap out belts and defensive enchants for offensive enchants. Even then a decent DPS'er with similar gear will leave you in the dust.

clericalist · October 2014

Just curious, do any GFs ever look at the damage received stat ? Does it provide any meaningful insight on how good a tanking job was done (so the bigger the damage difference compared to the others the better the tanking) ?

Besides that, personally I would take last every time on paingiver - if there was some other stat that a cleric could win at. They don't measure buff/debuff (probably too hard to do), also since the cleric is not the strongest healer anymore, at least let them compete at not coming last on paingiver (and YES I know they don't alway come last, I have sometimes also been higher up, but on average they are bottom of the paingiver charts)

qutsemnie · October 2014

clericalist wrote: »

Just curious, do any GFs ever look at the damage received stat ? Does it provide any meaningful insight on how good a tanking job was done...?

In order of your questions: "I do", and "Not really."

As a GF I am almost always at the top, but back when content was hard I also knew that taking more damage is not a sign of skill. In hard content the primary purpose of a GF is to get agro and then avoid damage. In a game with attack animations and avoidable damage, you can see the trouble with considering damage taken as good

In easy content it doesn't matter because a lot of time a GF will just tank damage they would have avoided if they were worried.

damnacious · October 2014

I think the best way to look at it is that the GF should be taking more damage than the rest of the party, yet the true test of whether a GF is a good tank or not, is to look at how much damage the rest of the party takes. The less damage the rest of the party takes is a good indicator as to whether the GF is good or not.

The reason why simply looking at how much damage the GF has taken is not a good indication of a good GF, is purely that a good GF will have mitigation which should lower how much damage they receive and take action to further minimise how much.

mfgamesys · October 2014

Job 1- Threat
Job 2- Buffs
Job 3- some dps

do this and as a gf you are doing your job if you are complaining about damage play a gwf.

xd108x · October 2014

grabmoore wrote:

GFs are a valuable part of current groups. Even if the new DCs outdps them on live server in the future, you still want to have his buffs and KV. Don't worry.

Can people please stop thinking of us GF players being in a group just buff you with things like KV and ITF...many of us DO NOT join groups just to follow people around with buffs on as you charge into enemies only thinking about how much dmg u can do and how fast you can do it. We are actually very capable of tanking, which can make a difference with a good GF player, just too many dont care to let us...

That said I wouldn't mind an improved DPS path for GF that maybe comes at a cost of tanking ability to give players the choice of how they want to play their char. Personally however I dont play GF to try and do good damage and likely never would, I'm happy playing the role of a tank when I can

runonnike wrote:

Also, GF's should be doing more DPS than a cleric because All clerics have to heal. Some GF's want to DPS, while others want to buff.

I wish healing in groups from a DC or SW was more important tbh, even with the recent changes coming in Mod 5, unless they do something about how life steal makes being a healer in a group not needed half the time then things won't change with people's attitude...

New Divine Cleric buffs and GF damage

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