Rough Astral Diamond Suggestion

edongrivera · October 2014

Since theres no suggestion section here. I'll just be posting it here..
thought of an idea to really make use of Rough Astral Diamond (RAD)

Refining a maximum 24k RAD daily is very bad.. imagine you are able to refine 24k for the day, and after that you'll be farming again and salvage epic stuffs worth another new 50k or even more.. it really doesnt make sense cause you'll be stacking more and more RAD over time.. imagine 1m RAD in your inventory..

so heres what i thought..

make it possible to refine a maximum of 100k RAD a day, but there will be a certain percentage of AD deducted (for example 40%, the devs can talk about the % to be deducted, but i think 40% is enough)

example you have 90k RAD..
90,000 x .4 (which is the 40%) = 36,000

90,000 - 36,000 = 54,000 Astral Diamonds

that gives you 54,000 AD

that gives player prioritization to do dungeons even more. well getting 100k RAD takes time too..

so what do you think?
thanks for reading..

luxark · October 2014

I think your talking about a luxury-problem here that only touches very few people. There are more pressing matters that need attention.

Iam not perfectly familiar with English, do you mean with "deductet" a fee that you have to pay to refine it? That would be incredible bad for basically everyone. Except if you get the standart 24k for free and everything above will cost you.

cerberusxll · October 2014

personally, I don't want to give a %age of my refined AD away to anyone. I did the grind for it, I want it all. I'd rather have 100% refined with a 24k limit per day than hand over a percentage

runebane · October 2014

edongrivera wrote: »

that gives player prioritization to do dungeons even more. well getting 100k RAD takes time too..

No thanks. I see this more as benefiting those that farmed up millions of rough AD during special events. The best PvE gear already comes from dungeons. And a reasonable amount of AD. If what you are already getting isn't enough, nothing ever will be.

edongrivera · October 2014

uhh. it was just a suggestion tho.. why get so hyped up? lol hide your 1M worth RAD in your inventory and watch for it grow more.. the game dies and you still didnt refine all your RAD.

btw, i didnt even say to prioritze this.. it was merely a suggestion

jorifice1 · October 2014

If you want to introduce a Fee structure for "Over Refining" ONLY, I really don't have a problem with it. As Luxark has said, this would affect very few Super Grinders. Just as long as it doesn't take effect until AFTER you hit that 24,000 a day limit, and we have a Confirm option so we do not loose hard earned AD unless we really want to.

cerberusxll · October 2014

edongrivera wrote: »

uhh. it was just a suggestion tho.. why get so hyped up? lol hide your 1M worth RAD in your inventory and watch for it grow more.. the game dies and you still didnt refine all your RAD.

btw, i didnt even say to prioritze this.. it was merely a suggestion

no one is getting hyped up, you asked a question, people answered it.

what if you refine all your AD and the game dies? do you get to cash it out? no, if the game dies, for all intent and purpose, your refined AD is about as much use as my 1 million unrefined AD.

edongrivera · October 2014

jorifice1 wrote: »

If you want to introduce a Fee structure for "Over Refining" ONLY, I really don't have a problem with it. As Luxark has said, this would affect very few Super Grinders. Just as long as it doesn't take effect until AFTER you hit that 24,000 a day limit, and we have a Confirm option so we do not loose hard earned AD unless we really want to.

Well, thats an idea.. Even better

dzonisa1 · October 2014

Refining AD is the only source of AD into the game. Its like printing money. If you increse how much you can refine, you decrese the value of AD, thus increse in prices so your buying power will stay the same, you just need more items salvaged for the same result

nwpilgrim · October 2014

it wouldn't hurt to at least raise the daily refining limit to say, 40k though

that, or make eLoL chest rewards bound to account for example :rolleyes:

blacksladdi · October 2014

increaseing the limit to 30k okay, but this no way. I spent hours getting several toons their 24k/ day when i needed the AD. I'd hate to lose "40%".

refracted0dawn · October 2014

edongrivera wrote: »

Refining a maximum 24k RAD daily is very bad..

make it possible to refine a maximum of 100k RAD a day

Absolutely. Fully seconded and endorsed.

With Leadership at Rank 20 and 2 Epic Heroes per task, you can do a 12 hour task in 6 hours (100% Speed Bonus).

That means 12 lots of Destroy Enemy Camp per day, per character, if you log on every 6 hours or so.

That's 19,200 rough AD per day right there from ONE character doing 3 tasks four times a day.

Now, add in other Tasks like Collect Taxes for 800 AD x 3 x 4 = 9,600 AD, Rare Tasks that give you 4,800 RAD for three lots of that task, PvP, Dailies, Lord Protector's (8000 AD just for the LP's PvP) and you are easily reaching 100k rough AD per day on a single character.

Of course, not all characters would have that level of assets and Leadership and not all of them could do all the Dailies, so there IS a natural, built-in limit. And you can avoid the 24k per day Income Limit by having multiple character slots for which you have paid, which is Working As Intended.

When I am over the limit for a character and have a back log of 50k rough AD, I just play a different character for the Dailies and have the over-loaded character do things like collecting Siege Engines or Mining Claims. Or do some Crafting or Alchemy.

I have 12 level 60s, with two DCs I Main, two TRs I Main and I've started semi-maining a GWF and HR as well.

And, don't forget, that getting Leadership to Rank 20 takes a long, long time - about 8 months for my first character. And getting the high ranking staff to reduce the time it takes ALSO takes a long, long time and a LOT of AD, or Zen on keys for the Lock Boxes.

So far, the most I have is three Heros on one or two characters - so a 12 hour task takes 8 hours, not 6. So I can do it only three times per day, not four.

edongrivera wrote: »

but there will be a certain percentage of AD deducted (for example 40%, the devs can talk about the % to be deducted, but i think 40% is enough)

Woah! And you blew it right there!

In your example, what happens if you had 30,000 AD, rather than 90,000? You'd lose 40% and get only 18,000? 6000 LESS than the Daily Limit?

In any case, it's never going to happen. The last thing they want is legitimate players making a legitimate 100k AD per character per day completely within the rules and within the intended design of the game. There have been enough problems with people getting 10 million AD per day through abusing exploits.

Also, they will probably say that such a system would help AD Farmer Bots. The fact that it penalises genuine, legitimate players is irrelevant. Bots and Farmers are part of life now, and there is a balance between periodically purging them and allowing them a certain amount of activity. If you ever see a stack of 99 Rank 6 Radiants for 150k AD on the AH, you KNOW that they are from a Farmer Bot. But legitimate players can say "That'll do me, Tommy!" and buy them up. And that can only be good for the players, and also for Cryptic and PWE, as genuine players then have more fun and so are more likely to spend cash on Zen.

But a Progressive Tax on refining AD could be worked in, I suppose. And it might make some role-playing sense or even fun; the more you refine, the greater the chances of losing some raw material in the process.

As long as you know when it is going to kick in, so you can choose not to do it and wait until the next day.

And as long as it applied ONLY to the Excess - so you'd still have your "Tax-Free Personal Allowance" of 24k per day. I would not want to refine 24,010 and lose 40% of the whole lot!

I am an Olde Tyme AD&D DM, and I love game mechanics as much as the role-playing. So I just knocked this up in a spreadsheet:

"Excess" is the amount of Taxable RAD above 24k in each Tax "Bracket".
"Tax Tier" is the actual amount of RAD subject to the "Tier Tax" for that Tax "Bracket".
"Tier Tax" is the rate you pay on that "Tax Tier".
"Max Tax" is the most tax you can pay on that Tier, as any more Gross RAD puts you into the next Tax Tier for that Excess RAD.
"Tier Net" is the refined AD you actually get from that Excess.

And so on...

You would pay the particular Tier Tax rate only on the Excess RAD in that Tax Tier.

So,

24k RAD, you pay nothing.
25k RAD, you pay nothing on the first 24k but pay 10% on the Excess 1k RAD at that Tier Tax Rate for that Tax Tier.
27k RAD, you pay only 10% on the 3k Excess RAD.
34k RAD, you pay only 10% on the first 6k over 24k, then 20% on the next 4k.

And so on.

"Tax on Tot" is what the theoretical Tax Rate would be if it applied to ALL income, including the 24k Tax-Free Daily Allowance.

[COLOR="#000000"]
[B]Gross RAD  Excess  Tax Tier  Tier Tax  Max Tax  Tier Net  *** Loss  *** Net  *** Tax  Tax on Tot[/B]
  24,000        0        0       0          0    24,000          0   24,000     0         0.00%
  30,000    6,000    6,000      10%       600     5,400        600   29,400    10%        2.00%
  36,000   12,000    6,000      20%     1,200     4,800      1,800   34,200    15%        5.00%
  42,000   18,000    6,000      30%     1,800     4,200      3,600   38,400    20%        8.57%
  [B][COLOR="#008000"]48,000   24,000    6,000      40%     2,400     3,600      6,000   42,000    25%       12.50%[/COLOR][/B]
  72,000   48,000   24,000      50%    12,000    12,000     18,000   54,000    38%       25.00%
  96,000   72,000   24,000      60%    14,400     9,600     32,400   63,600    45%       33.75%
 [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]120,000   96,000   24,000      70%    16,800     7,200     49,200   70,800    51%       41.00%[/COLOR][/B]
 144,000  120,000   24,000      80%    19,200     4,800     68,400   75,600    57%       47.50%
 168,000  144,000   24,000      90%    21,600     2,400     90,000   78,000    63%       53.57%
 192,000  168,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    112,800   79,200    67%       58.75%
 216,000  192,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    135,600   80,400    71%       62.78%
 240,000  216,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    158,400   81,600    73%       66.00%
 264,000  240,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    181,200   82,800    76%       68.64%
 288,000  264,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    204,000   84,000    77%       70.83%
 312,000  288,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    226,800   85,200    79%       72.69%
 336,000  312,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    249,600   86,400    80%       74.29%
 360,000  336,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    272,400   87,600    81%       75.67%[/COLOR]

[Edit] *** = "Cumulative"

So there is no limit on the amount you can refine per day, but the tax you pay makes it utterly punitive. This will affect Bot AD Farmers as well.

Obviously, if you refine 24,010 rough AD, you will pay 1 AD in Tax on that excess 10 AD. If you refined 24,001, you'd pay no tax at all.

This allows players the choice of waiting until the in-game clock resets to refine more than 24k RAD, like we do already, or refine it now and take the Tax Hit. Sometimes, I need the AD NOW, and in a few hours time when I can get it, I've missed the chance as the item I wanted on the AH has already gone.

This is what I would probably allow in a real-world AD&D Campaign. I think this will be better than a flat rate of 40% and will still penalise Bot Super Farmers at the higher levels and also encourage genuine players at the lower Tax rates.

But the real way to combat bots is to permanently ban player accounts who have bought game assets from 3rd party sites. That not only deprives PWE of cash income but these players are, after all, buying illicit pirate materials from these sites and using them to cheat in-game.

There is nothing wrong with making an innocent purchase on the AH - but buying AD from a pirate is not just stupid, it's cheating.

jorifice1 · October 2014

refracted0dawn wrote: »
Absolutely. Fully seconded and endorsed.

With Leadership at Rank 20 and 2 Epic Heroes per task, you can do a 12 hour task in 6 hours (100% Speed Bonus).

That means 12 lots of Destroy Enemy Camp per day, per character, if you log on every 6 hours or so.

That's 19,200 rough AD per day right there from ONE character doing 3 tasks four times a day.

Now, add in other Tasks like Collect Taxes for 800 AD x 3 x 4 = 9,600 AD, Rare Tasks that give you 4,800 RAD for three lots of that task, PvP, Dailies, Lord Protector's (8000 AD just for the LP's PvP) and you are easily reaching 100k rough AD per day on a single character.

Of course, not all characters would have that level of assets and Leadership and not all of them could do all the Dailies, so there IS a natural, built-in limit. And you can avoid the 24k per day Income Limit by having multiple character slots for which you have paid, which is Working As Intended.

When I am over the limit for a character and have a back log of 50k rough AD, I just play a different character for the Dailies and have the over-loaded character do things like collecting Siege Engines or Mining Claims. Or do some Crafting or Alchemy.

I have 12 level 60s, with two DCs I Main, two TRs I Main and I've started semi-maining a GWF and HR as well.

And, don't forget, that getting Leadership to Rank 20 takes a long, long time - about 8 months for my first character. And getting the high ranking staff to reduce the time it takes ALSO takes a long, long time and a LOT of AD, or Zen on keys for the Lock Boxes.

So far, the most I have is three Heros on one or two characters - so a 12 hour task takes 8 hours, not 6. So I can do it only three times per day, not four.

Woah! And you blew it right there!

In your example, what happens if you had 30,000 AD, rather than 90,000? You'd lose 40% and get only 18,000? 6000 LESS than the Daily Limit?

In any case, it's never going to happen. The last thing they want is legitimate players making a legitimate 100k AD per character per day completely within the rules and within the intended design of the game. There have been enough problems with people getting 10 million AD per day through abusing exploits.

Also, they will probably say that such a system would help AD Farmer Bots. The fact that it penalises genuine, legitimate players is irrelevant. Bots and Farmers are part of life now, and there is a balance between periodically purging them and allowing them a certain amount of activity. If you ever see a stack of 99 Rank 6 Radiants for 150k AD on the AH, you KNOW that they are from a Farmer Bot. But legitimate players can say "That'll do me, Tommy!" and buy them up. And that can only be good for the players, and also for Cryptic and PWE, as genuine players then have more fun and so are more likely to spend cash on Zen.

But a Progressive Tax on refining AD could be worked in, I suppose. And it might make some role-playing sense or even fun; the more you refine, the greater the chances of losing some raw material in the process.

As long as you know when it is going to kick in, so you can choose not to do it and wait until the next day.

And as long as it applied ONLY to the Excess - so you'd still have your "Tax-Free Personal Allowance" of 24k per day. I would not want to refine 24,010 and lose 40% of the whole lot!

I am an Olde Tyme AD&D DM, and I love game mechanics as much as the role-playing. So I just knocked this up in a spreadsheet:

"Excess" is the amount of Taxable RAD above 24k in each Tax "Bracket".
"Tax Tier" is the actual amount of RAD subject to the "Tier Tax" for that Tax "Bracket".
"Tier Tax" is the rate you pay on that "Tax Tier".
"Max Tax" is the most tax you can pay on that Tier, as any more Gross RAD puts you into the next Tax Tier for that Excess RAD.
"Tier Net" is the refined AD you actually get from that Excess.

And so on...

You would pay the particular Tier Tax rate only on the Excess RAD in that Tax Tier.

So,

24k RAD, you pay nothing.
25k RAD, you pay nothing on the first 24k but pay 10% on the Excess 1k RAD at that Tier Tax Rate for that Tax Tier.
27k RAD, you pay only 10% on the 3k Excess RAD.
34k RAD, you pay only 10% on the first 6k over 24k, then 20% on the next 4k.

And so on.

"Tax on Tot" is what the theoretical Tax Rate would be if it applied to ALL income, including the 24k Tax-Free Daily Allowance.
[COLOR="#000000"]
[B]Gross RAD  Excess  Tax Tier  Tier Tax  Max Tax  Tier Net  *** Loss  *** Net  *** Tax  Tax on Tot[/B]
  24,000        0        0       0          0    24,000          0   24,000     0         0.00%
  30,000    6,000    6,000      10%       600     5,400        600   29,400    10%        2.00%
  36,000   12,000    6,000      20%     1,200     4,800      1,800   34,200    15%        5.00%
  42,000   18,000    6,000      30%     1,800     4,200      3,600   38,400    20%        8.57%
  [B][COLOR="#008000"]48,000   24,000    6,000      40%     2,400     3,600      6,000   42,000    25%       12.50%[/COLOR][/B]
  72,000   48,000   24,000      50%    12,000    12,000     18,000   54,000    38%       25.00%
  96,000   72,000   24,000      60%    14,400     9,600     32,400   63,600    45%       33.75%
 [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]120,000   96,000   24,000      70%    16,800     7,200     49,200   70,800    51%       41.00%[/COLOR][/B]
 144,000  120,000   24,000      80%    19,200     4,800     68,400   75,600    57%       47.50%
 168,000  144,000   24,000      90%    21,600     2,400     90,000   78,000    63%       53.57%
 192,000  168,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    112,800   79,200    67%       58.75%
 216,000  192,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    135,600   80,400    71%       62.78%
 240,000  216,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    158,400   81,600    73%       66.00%
 264,000  240,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    181,200   82,800    76%       68.64%
 288,000  264,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    204,000   84,000    77%       70.83%
 312,000  288,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    226,800   85,200    79%       72.69%
 336,000  312,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    249,600   86,400    80%       74.29%
 360,000  336,000   24,000      95%    22,800     1,200    272,400   87,600    81%       75.67%[/COLOR]
So there is no limit on the amount you can refine per day, but the tax you pay makes it utterly punitive. This will affect Bot AD Farmers as well.

Obviously, if you refine 24,010 rough AD, you will pay 1 AD in Tax on that excess 10 AD. If you refined 24,001, you'd pay no tax at all.

This allows players the choice of waiting until the in-game clock resets to refine more than 24k RAD, like we do already, or refine it now and take the Tax Hit. Sometimes, I need the AD NOW, and in a few hours time when I can get it, I've missed the chance as the item I wanted on the AH has already gone.

This is what I would probably allow in a real-world AD&D Campaign. I think this will be better than a flat rate of 40% and will still penalise Bot Super Farmers at the higher levels and also encourage genuine players at the lower Tax rates.

But the real way to combat bots is to permanently ban player accounts who have bought game assets from 3rd party sites. That not only deprives PWE of cash income but these players are, after all, buying illicit pirate materials from these sites and using them to cheat in-game.

There is nothing wrong with making an innocent purchase on the AH - but buying AD from a pirate is not just stupid, it's cheating.

I like this plan.
Thoroughly seconded!

jondbx · October 2014

runebane wrote: »

No thanks. I see this more as benefiting those that farmed up millions of rough AD during special events. The best PvE gear already comes from dungeons. And a reasonable amount of AD. If what you are already getting isn't enough, nothing ever will be.

That's not entirely true. I have over 1M RAD the majority coming from refining 1000ds of draconic armor and necklaces of pain and aggravation from running LoL.

You can never have too much AD as it seems next module I will have to replace my current belt with a new one and spend another 5M or so to refine it.

refracted0dawn · October 2014

jorifice1 wrote: »

I like this plan.
Thoroughly seconded!

Thanks!

But there's no need to quote the whole thing!

PS The only real issue might be fueling inflation, but I am not convinced it would. Re-specing your Feats still costs about 80k, and the AD sinks are always the same. If the AH get's too expensive, the Sinks are actually cheaper for things like refining stones.

I think the Tax Tiers are about right, but the developers could tweak the actual Tier Taxes - that's the beauty of spreadsheets!

~

sockmunkey · October 2014

We are still recovering from the AD exploit. The value of AD in relation to Zen is still awfully low. Let not be in such a rush to mess things up again by increasing the flow of refined AD into the system. Being able to refine more AD is not what this game needs right now.

refracted0dawn · October 2014

sockmunkey wrote: »

Being able to refine more AD is not what this game needs right now.

I think a flat rate of 500 AD per Zen is absolutely fine. At least we always know where we are.

And there is absolutely zero valid comparison between legitimate players refining 100k AD per day and paying an overall tax of 41% and people standing by an AD Fountain and making 20 million AD with no effort at all. That's a 200-fold difference and not that many players have the assets to make that much anyway.

If you check my table, if you refined more than 120k AD (but less than 144k) from Professions and Dailies, you'd be taxed on every AD above 24k at every one of the 10% to 70% Tax Tiers. So you'd get about 71k AD from your 120k RAD.

[COLOR="#000000"]
[B]Gross RAD  Excess  Tax Tier  Tier Tax  Max Tax  Tier Net  *** Loss  *** Net  *** Tax  Tax on Tot[/B]
[B][COLOR="#FF0000"]120,000   96,000   24,000      70%    16,800     7,200     49,200   70,800    51%       41.00%[/COLOR][/B]
[/COLOR]

*** = Cumulative

I think it also prevents Zen Market/Auction House Flippers from being so active.

For example, the last time I bought a pile of Zen with Cash Money was during the Greater Bags of Holding Sale. I bought about ten GBoH, for 750 Zen each (375,000 AD). As I have 12 level 60 characters, I actually need them. They all have at least two GBoH, a Dragonhorde Bag and the Adventurer's one you get from Blacklake.

But if I were to sell them on the AH at some point in the future, I would have to sell them for at least 416,675 AD to make a "profit" of 7 AD. SEVEN. Not 7,000, SEVEN.

Check the prices on the AH. No way I could sell them for 500k AD and make 75k each after the 10% cut.

Same if I had bought the Zen with AD and then bought the bags. Buy at 375k, sell at what? No way to flip, except during very unusual fluctuations. And even then it is not guaranteed that I'll just lose my posting fee.

dzonisa1 · October 2014

You do realise that any change to AD refining capacity will increse the AH prices by same ammount ? Your buying power will stay the same, it will just require more work to reach the cap

Otherwise there would be no econimical crisis, countries would just print out more money. Same system works in games. If you print out more AD, less valuable it is

luxark · October 2014

dzonisa1 wrote: »

Otherwise there would be no econimical crisis, countries would just print out more money. Same system works in games. If you print out more AD, less valuable it is

Did Cryptic not do that itsself two times withhout caring for the consequences?

ambisinisterr · October 2014

*looks at the Zen Exchange*

Let's add even more AD to the game. It's not like the Zen Exchange is maxed out at 500:1 and has been for months now.

Yeah...so somebody said it wouldn't hurt...
Contrary to that it would hurt A LOT.

The limit is there to put at least some limit on the amount of inflation. The system is already massively inflated. We don't need it even more inflated.

As dzonisa1 said when you add more AD to the game it lowers the value of AD. The way economics work is that every item has a value determined by the consumer. As such when you lower the value of a currency but the value of products remain the same the amount of currency required to purchase those items increases.

This means increasing the cap would be a wash. It would make some people feel better but the value of items don't change, only the value of AD. As such the extra AD you make is not worth as much and the people who get hurt the most are the average players who do not reach the refinement caps.

Ultimately this suggestion will cause a few people to feel better while not improving their situation whatsoever and hurting others who do not spend hours a day farming AD.

ryugasirius · October 2014

The more AD we add to the global economy, the less the AD is worth. It's a basic principle that, after the ZAX backlog hit 15 milion ZEN, and everything on the AH was priced 2 or 3 times the current price, should already be public knowledge.

I can't really understand why people want more AD *added* by refining rather than trading drops/items/whatever for it (thus mantaining its value).

luxark · October 2014

ambisinisterr wrote: »

The limit is there to put at least some limit on the amount of inflation. The system is already massively inflated. We don't need it even more inflated.

Putting a limit in how expensive ZEN can get is not stopping inflation of AD. Everything on the Auction House gets more and more expensive while a few people get richer and richer because of that limit.
You cannot stop inflation if you can produce a currency from nothing. Either you have to have a finite amount of a currency running in the economy of you have to balance in- and outcome out.

Imagine if AD to Zen and the reverse would not be limited to 500 AD per ZEN. People with millions of AD could not snowball that hard anymore and even run out of AD at some point while real world money would be worth A LOT more. In the end, the System would probaly balance itsself out better. Probaly even below 500 AD/Zen since there would not be many AD-Millionaires anymore.
It might even incerase ZEN-sales for real money because it would be worth more and Cryptic can miss a few more critical bugs while still not rerolling or baning people for exploiting because you would not notice the aftermath of it even a year later.

ryugasirius · October 2014

luxark wrote: »

Putting a limit in how expensive ZEN can get is not stopping inflation of AD. Everything on the Auction House gets more and more expensive while a few people get richer and richer because of that limit.

Ambi was talking about refining limit, not AD/ZEN limit, that is in place for other reasons (namely, to allow everyone a chance at ZEN store, rather than making it a privilege for few, and also to prevent RL money from influencing game economy too much).

Remember than, when buying ZEN on ZAX, AD are not actually "destroyed", they just change hands. Thus your claim that "people with millions of AD would run out of AD" is not true, they will just shift from active players to RL money spenders. If that ever happened, the game would bleed players so hard that in the end the game won't be economically profitable.

t8x · October 2014

I have just under 1 mil RAD on my main right now. Personally, I would choose to wait and refine all of it rather than getting it fast and losing almost half.

luxark · October 2014

ryugasirius wrote: »

Remember than, when buying ZEN on ZAX, AD are not actually "destroyed", they just change hands. Thus your claim that "people with millions of AD would run out of AD" is not true, they will just shift from active players to RL money spenders. If that ever happened, the game would bleed players so hard that in the end the game won't be economically profitable.

It would change to players that actually use them and not just snowball with it since they can just trade it back and forth.

ryugasirius · October 2014

luxark wrote: »

It would change to players that actually use them and not just snowball with it since they can just trade it back and forth.

Aaaand why? I fail to see the connection. Why would anyone who invested real money (hard earned cash) want to mindlessly spend them, while someone else who got it for free would hold on them?

luxark · October 2014

ryugasirius wrote: »

Aaaand why? I fail to see the connection. Why would anyone who invested real money (hard earned cash) want to mindlessly spend them, while someone else who got it for free would hold on them?

Do you think many people spend real money on a game if they do not plan on buying anything for it?

ryugasirius · October 2014

luxark wrote: »

Would you spend real world money on a game if you plan on not using it?

If I spend real world money, I would try to make the most of it (and that's what I did indeed). I wouldn't spend money just to see it vanish on trivial stuff.

Of course, there is a few people who have too much RL money and don't mind spending on anything shiny they see, and they buy anything at any price. But they are definitely not the *average* spender.

luxark · October 2014

ryugasirius wrote: »

If I spend real world money, I would try to make the most of it (and that's what I did indeed). I wouldn't spend money just to see it vanish on trivial stuff.

Of course, there is a few people who have too much RL money and don't mind spending on anything shiny they see, and they buy anything at any price. But they are definitely not the *average* spender.

I changed my posting in order to clarify what i want to say before you posted yours.
The people in this forum are seldom the "average". Most people do not care for forums or how they could make the most out of anything. They see something they want and they spend money or AD on it. They do not go trading in the Auction House or on the Zen Market in order to multiply their wealth.
This means, traded Zen and AD would actually be spend and not just traded again.

And this means: More Zen and AD in the hands of the "normal" player = more Zen or AD spend in the shops and are taken out of the game. And this results a decline of inflation because there is less of those currencys in the game. At least till the next major exploit.

ryugasirius · October 2014

luxark wrote: »

And this means: More Zen and AD in the hands of the "normal" player = more Zen or AD spend in the shops and are taken out of the game. And this results a decline of inflation because there is less of those currencys in the game. At least till the next major exploit.

ZEN spent in shops for personal use would have absolutely no influence on the game economy.

AD spent in shops, well, there are *very* few items in the AD shop, most of them are overpriced, only a couple are actually needed, and none are simply "desirable", except maybe the few companions (that are overpriced anyway). And that is by design: PWE wants to have the best items in the ZEN shop.

Any trade would still occur in the AH (domain of the traders). The AD would be still all in the economy.

luxark · October 2014

ryugasirius wrote: »

ZEN spent in shops for personal use would have absolutely no influence on the game economy.

Except if Zen was traded from AD.

Also i can just repeat myself: Iam talking about normal players that do not have everything on all characters already. Alone all campaigns on one character take a few hundredthousands of AD that normal players do not have that easily.

Rough Astral Diamond Suggestion

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