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Has "Kicking" from parties become the norm?
boldorian
Member Posts: 30 Arc User
Ok, so there are a percentage of us that feel there is a problem with the “Kick” voting in dungeons, but why has it become used more often lately during a PUG runs?
I have been in many groups recently, while running various dungeons with my various characters, and it never fails that a vote to kick pops up. Now, I agree there are valid reasons to thin the herd, such as the “Need/Greed” debate, and when a player is just being abusive towards others, but I have seen good players get bumped for what seems like no reason. It is almost as if it is a “Power” situation, where one player feels they should have all the power, so they start kicking players to get a group that suits them better, with no concern for the players that are banished. With the long wait time to get into a dungeon during “Dungeon Delves”, or any other time of day for that matter, the people being “kicked” have lost their chance join again in a reasonable amount of time.
I know that it takes “2” for a kick to succeed, but that number is too low in my opinion. When you are in the heat of battle, voting “yes” or “no” is an issue, as your character may perish while stopping to hit the right response. This has been discussed many times on the boards, and even though there does not seem to be a change in the near future, it does get discouraging. I saw a perfectly good cleric get booted from a party recently with the reason of “AFK”, but the player was healing us just fine when the vote came up, so I voted “No”. Now apparently someone else agreed with the originator of the vote, since it did succeed, though it may have been an accidental “yes” due to the continuing fight. So why say a player was away from their keyboard, when they were right in the thick of it?
I have been playing Neverwinter for over a year now, and it seems as if the community has gone from being a “friendly” group of likeminded players, to that of a bunch of strangers attempting to play a game. The sense of community is being lost somewhere, and in my opinion it needs to resurface for the enjoyment of all. When I first joined, there were huge groups of players willing to help, but they seem to be vanishing, which is quite sad. I attempt to help others when I am able to, since that is how I was initially greeted to the game, but where have the others gone?
Well, I guess it’s time to let the flaming begin, but I am hoping there are at least a “few” likeminded players still around.
I have been in many groups recently, while running various dungeons with my various characters, and it never fails that a vote to kick pops up. Now, I agree there are valid reasons to thin the herd, such as the “Need/Greed” debate, and when a player is just being abusive towards others, but I have seen good players get bumped for what seems like no reason. It is almost as if it is a “Power” situation, where one player feels they should have all the power, so they start kicking players to get a group that suits them better, with no concern for the players that are banished. With the long wait time to get into a dungeon during “Dungeon Delves”, or any other time of day for that matter, the people being “kicked” have lost their chance join again in a reasonable amount of time.
I know that it takes “2” for a kick to succeed, but that number is too low in my opinion. When you are in the heat of battle, voting “yes” or “no” is an issue, as your character may perish while stopping to hit the right response. This has been discussed many times on the boards, and even though there does not seem to be a change in the near future, it does get discouraging. I saw a perfectly good cleric get booted from a party recently with the reason of “AFK”, but the player was healing us just fine when the vote came up, so I voted “No”. Now apparently someone else agreed with the originator of the vote, since it did succeed, though it may have been an accidental “yes” due to the continuing fight. So why say a player was away from their keyboard, when they were right in the thick of it?
I have been playing Neverwinter for over a year now, and it seems as if the community has gone from being a “friendly” group of likeminded players, to that of a bunch of strangers attempting to play a game. The sense of community is being lost somewhere, and in my opinion it needs to resurface for the enjoyment of all. When I first joined, there were huge groups of players willing to help, but they seem to be vanishing, which is quite sad. I attempt to help others when I am able to, since that is how I was initially greeted to the game, but where have the others gone?
Well, I guess it’s time to let the flaming begin, but I am hoping there are at least a “few” likeminded players still around.
Post edited by boldorian on
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I would tend to agree with you - so no flaming from me. MY own experience trying to q for dungeons is this simple - three time to CN, three times kicked. Last time it after playing for over an hour and after finishing one of the big bosses by myself after the other were killed - pm'd the people in the group and it turned out the HR (a nice chap) also got kicked. The others never responded - my feeling is that they kick people near the end of dungeons and then invite their friends so they get the best gear without having to do most of the work. Result I don't do dungeons anymore - no point
So yeah - I get your point
Have a fun game all
No, the Need/Greed debate does not constitute abusing the system.
Do not infect that debate with this irresponsible conduct. Neither parties of that debate approve kicking people who have rolled appropriately based on party agreements' rules.
Kicking anyone who flawlessly followed all the party loot rules has NO PLACE in ANY type of run.
I did know nothing about need/greed thing, etc.
And it was a lot of new things to lern, so I wasnt surprised.
But most recetly kicking from party have been abused during skirmishes,
especialy on SoT, where leader has 'all the power'.
It happens often to clear all the way untill boss and then kick players,
so plp can invite their guildies/friends.
Its stupid and shouldnt be allowed.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
This is something that needs to be addressed soon. They went through so much trouble to attempt to avoid people doing this (not allowing you to specifically invite people, etc) that allowing people to easily kick until the right person comes is odd.
Anyways, wont change until mod 12 anyways so run with friends.
Dungeon runs with no concerns about class comp or GS, no skipping or other exploits, no kicking or cheesing.
Dungeons the way they were meant to be played.
I gave up on LFG the second I found this channel.
I think some common sense limits would solve most of the problem. First is if you initiate or vote for a kick, you entire account has a lockout for at least 3 days (real time) or longer; or perhaps several hours of game time (4+?). No one should need to kick players that often.
Secondly, kick attempts must be locked out if any loot rolls are outstanding on any player, blocked for period of time after a boss is defeated (to allow for loot to be gathered and loot rolls initiated) and (an extension of the previous) blocked one the instance has been finished.
I've long since given up on Dungeons in this Game.
Just PvE, Skirmishes, and PvP for me.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time
I would suggest 2 things:
- find a guild that goes to dungeons (and maybe even shares the most valueable loot like mine)
- find a channel (or few) that doesn't kick people from pt, doesn't care for GS, communicate, doesn't steal loot and doesn't leave without reason in the middle when something doesn't go as planned (like NW_Legit_Community).
Lastly, write down handles whoever kicks you/others for no reason and next time you're in a party check if you didn't met same person on diffrent toon and just leave his/theirs party.
I also like legit channel. Never have a problem there, but i'm experienced and geared so if there were problems i might not take the punishment.
A good guild helps too. There are quite a few out there to explore.
Sadly, if you want to PUG you will deal with this nonsense.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You dont use them they will reset after 24 hours
that will teach the clicker happy vote kickers a lesson
I am quite a new player and my first epic dungeon that was in Gauntlygrim ended in me and all the rest expect the leader being kicked after killing the final boss and before getting the loot. Really was a kick in the teeth.
Also some communication would be nice in the beginning of dungeons. In my first one I didnt know anything about the greed runs in epic and followed suit of lvling up dungeons where I picked what I needed and passed on the rest. When I found out about greed later then I firstly thoguht that I was kicked for picking need but then I thought on it and seriously all 4 par the leader were kicked.
I currently have 2 chars above lvl 60 one is a gs 12k gwf and another is gs 11k ranger. Getting them geared up is a lots of grinding and gameplay for me and it really sucks if you get kicked so easily on someones whim. Also I would say that it is hard for the casual player ( which I surely am ) as there are quite lot elitarist guys who simply kick you because of being wrong class ( mostly they want to kick gwf because he threatens their loot) or being too weak. How should you get better if you get kicked from t2 dungeons which really arent that hard that you should kick people for low gs?
Luckily I have made a really good friend in the game and together it is better to do dungeons. As it offers at least some safeguard against kicking.
PS- I am mostly queuing for dungeons and have also met a lot of good people doing so.
Skirmish runs - pugs
"Strangely alone" is right, no sense of community. Cant believe these are the same people who made City of Heroes.
As for kicking, if it was up to me kicking would require 4 votes 'yes' including the initiator
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I am often made a leader in the dungeons and impatient people kick apart the team way too often.
There have only been 2 times in my time playing that I have used the vote kick system. First time was to try to vote kick someone who was telling me off in party chat. It failed, so I told the party I was leaving for that reason and I did. Got a whisper later from one of the others who said they left too because of that one person. Second time was because someone was refusing to pull their weight unless someone else got kicked (just being a troll basically) so we kicked him. He came back cause he queued right away so we kicked him again.
I go out of my way to be nice to everyone I talk to and party with in game. I also only form groups from my guild or the legit channel, and there is definitely a sense of community there imho. The way I see it is that now that I am experienced I should be more willing to help newer and less experienced players out, not less. I really don't understand these elitist bad people.
...
Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
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...
That exact thing happened to my Radiant Healer Anointed Champion a little while ago! I don't know if it was me you saw being kicked, but what you describe definitely happens.
She is Geared and Feated completely for Healing/Buffing and Party play. But when she is paying solo, she has to use some combat powers or she will just die. She has the Ethereal Boon Feat, which refills 10% of a Pip her Divinity power when her Encounters come off Cool Down. So, in solo play, using Encounters that do not need a target helps - Exaltation, Daunting Light and Sunburst.
So I get teleported from Sharandar to Dread Vault, go to the camp fire to heal and regain Camp Fire bonus, cast a few encounters on the ground to rebuild Divinity and swap in Astral Shield instead of Daunting Light.
Of course, in the 15 seconds I spent doing that, the party had just charged straight off into combat, like they think it's a race.
So when I catch them up, I healed someone with Exaltation (which also Battle Buffs them), cast a Sunburst for area heal and damage (as Prestigious Exaltation and Invigorated Healing increase my heals when Exaltation is up), and laid down an Astral Shield - next thing I know I am kicked!
Someone PMd me to apologise and say they voted "NO".
This is what the game is coming to with the low attention span, GREEEEEEDDDD!!! is GOOD generation we have coming into the game.
I used to help out low geared and low level parties a lot, but I don't do it as much any more.
In fact, I have not been to Dread Vault for a while as I do not need the drops and don't need the gear and there are better things to do with my time than Dungeon Delves. I do not need the DD AD either, as I can get AD from other game events.
~
Learn something new everyday.
Yeha they should change that.
Well I often take at least a few pugs,
sometimes do pure pugs. Plenty of nice folks
there. But true it happens too much
people get kicked for nonsense reasons.
Sometimes 'tr' is enouph to get kicked these days.
Its the jerks that are most visible,
and give you a sour aftertaste of lfg.
Hmm maybe I'm too nice but I never kick someone for bad play
even if they are the sole weak link keeping us from finishing it.
Always vote no if someone else tries this.
If it is really that troublesome talk to the guy.
Either he leaves out of free will or its a failed run IMO.
Kicking should only be done to jerks.
Talking to is for nice people who got in over their head.
My TR recently got kicked from an eSoT skirmish. I queued into a fail group stuck at Garakas, went into the fight with the team, people started dying and failed, and then the pros started accusing my TR turning the boss and killing them. Apparently, it's always someone else's fault when you die.
I knew what I was doing and kept quiet and we went in again. This time I went after the rage drakes, and people started dying again. AFTER 3 of the players ran around the boss and killed themselves and went back to campfire, I started to attack Garakas after the drakes were dead. And again the idle players started whining that the TR who wasn't even hitting the boss was turning him around and got them killed. Then the party leader who whined the most kicked me.
Fun times.
What are PvP'rs doing at the mailboxes the whole time? Because they are there no matter at what time you log in. If you observe them well they are always there -especially at the box close to Sargeant Knox- and they have similar names and they walk and move around you trying to 'hit' you with their blades. And they are usually in instances with larger population. Very annoying litle .... bots.
Anyway this thread is not about bots
No no, they just move around trying to 'hit' you.
Move around how exactly? Are you referring to the bounce they do whie idle in combat or moving of the characters position in the gameworld?
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No, not the bouncing. I am talking about moving of position and especially 'targetting' players by the mailboxes (especially the one close to Sargent Knox) with Duelist's Flurry. They use that at-will constantly. I suppose they want to draw attention to them so that ppl know they are idiotic bots. Lol, I dont know why they do it but it's annoying when you are mailing something and doing some calculations or wahatever.
Lots of people complain about kicking, especially when it happens to them.
I've been a party leader many times in t2 dungeons as well as t1 and I was forced to kick people from the party. AFKing even for 5 minutes is awful in a dungeon when you have limited time to spare. If you can't reserve the time to do the dungeon in its entirety without the need to afk, you honestly should not be running a dungeon. It's a drag to the entire team where if we keep you whom are doing nothing to help the team for the next 5+ (I've even kicked friends and guildies for this because it isn't fair to the team as a whole) minutes, that's time you're not contributing.
Also I won't just randomly pug it, I will /LFG to assemble a team with an agreement on "greeding" (I know this is a hot topic issue but lets put it this way, my time and your time has value to it. It's the reason why we get paid to work, in the most basic of businesses (flipping burgers ect) lets not even factor in skill because its a very basic computer game with a super simplistic ability layout. Now with this well played "GREED RUN" mentioning in my /LFG advertisements to assemble a team, I often pick up wolves whom like to wait to be the last person to decide "need greed or pass" on an item and they let this time bar run down to make sure they secure the need on what we all agreed by joining as a "Greed" run. When that time starts dancing below half and its only down to one person to vote I know exactly whats happening and what they are planning. You can come up with all the horse <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> excuses to throw against this that you want but I won't hear it. I've had it happen to my party and myself to many times to count and so I don't put up with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I watch the loot rolls to make sure everyone is being cut the same chance when I'm a party leader, and as a party leader that is my responcibility to see that the agreed "Greed" is followed. Kicked.
Aside from vulgarities, flaming and racism. I see those as the only authentic reason's to boot or be booted from a run.
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I object to your objection
To be honest, you cannot foresee everything. Or do you even ignore your doorbell or telephone if it rings because you are in a dungeon? And yes, stuff like that can take five minutes if your not telling them to shut up because your in a dungeon right now.
I've always assumed that it was a simple way to avoid being labeled AFK.
Just keep auto-clicking a mouse button.
'Wen considered the nature of time and understood that the universe is, instant by instant, recreated anew. Therefore, he understood, there is in truth no past, only a memory of the past. Blink your eyes, and the world you see next did not exist when you closed them. Therefore, he said, the only appropriate state of the mind is surprise. The only appropriate state of the heart is joy. The sky you see now, you have never seen before. The perfect moment is now. Be glad of it.' Terry Pratchet The Thief Of Time