Class Advocacy Thread: M4 CW Feedback

jayrad8 · October 2014

I was chosen by Gentlemancrush and Akromatik to be your Class Advocate for M4.

The responsibilities I will fulfill are:

Acting as an intermediary for the CW Community as a whole on specific topics and areas, regardless of my personal standpoint on the content discussed.
Collating any and all feedback into more readable bullet-point lists to improve Developer response time and better allow the feelings of the community to become apparent.
Relaying all hot topics and serious bugs so that Developers know to look more deeply into such issues being reported in Bug Reports and on the Forum.

I will facilitate this by submitting weekly reports to gentlemancrush and akromatik on Mondays, in addition to soliciting feedback from the CW community. You can reach me to provide your feedback in the following ways:

The Best Method: Click "Reply With Quote" at the bottom of post #2 below, organize your answers below each question, color your responses, and submit. In addition, link me to any other threads/posts/etc. that you would like me to read.
Contact me in-game via mail and PM or send a forum PM from your User CP to Ezra@jayrad8
Type "/channel_join CW-Feedback" in-game to chat with me when I'm available and fellow online CWs
Strike up a conversation with me on Facebook by sending a message to this account

For bugs, please submit a bug report here and post a link to it here so that I can update the current list.

Now, what's left for you to do to ensure that the CW community takes full advantage of our opportunity?

Post your feedback!
Participate in bug testing
Consider both PvE and PvP in responses/discussions
Encourage your friends, guilds, and other contacts to give feedback
Show respect -- personal attacks, troll posts, and otherwise off topic content are not included in my reports. Do not post them.

Looking forward to hearing from all of you!

jayrad8 · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

gentlemancrush wrote: »

Greetings Adventurers!

Control Wizards have been in a problematic place for a while, so we wanted to take a good hard look at what they could do, what they brought to the party, and make some fairly big changes to them. These changes are slated for Module 4, Tyranny of Dragons.

Overview
Control Wizards do a lot of things really well, and their strength coupled with the amount of utility they bring to a party made them just overbearing, so we are tuning them way back with a large series of changes to their base powers and feats to bring them much more in line with where we want everyone to be.

Those presumably being:

i) Fix known bugs
ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general
iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups
iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

Why is this change at the top of your list?

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

As always, please be constructive, respectful, and refrain from inflammatory comments in your answers.

notsheriffsrs · October 2014

#BringBackShard

All I have to say.

hfgtfsdfs · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Those presumably being:
i) Fix known bugs - Maybe? What bugs was fixed?
ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general - YES
iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups - Yes in new dungeons, NO in old dungeons
iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees - There is only one viable for PvP and thats Thaum. Opressor might work in PvE but still prefere thaum in PvE too. Renegade is out of the question for PvP and PvE.

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?
I liked the shield buff and the storm fury buff. There are other encounters and powers that can be buffed so that they are more in line with the better ones. Maelstrom and chilling/arcance presence or example.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?
The shard was the biggest misstake and should have been nerfed in PvE in a way so it didnt affect PvP.
Also other big misstakes were moving all our damage into passives and DoTs. Our encounter does like what, 5% of all damage now? No skill involved in playing a CW in PvP now.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?
It should stay where it is and just do some minor balance/bug fixes.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?
I dont play PvE that much, no fun content.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?
I feel its kinda balanced except for that OP HR that has no balance at all regarding the damage.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?
Oppressor needs a small buff regarding control, you cant even control stuff in the new dungeon/skirmishes and that makes this tree useless for new content. For PvP I guess its okey as it is.
Thaum needs to move the damage from passives to encounters, there is no skill involved right now and that bad.
Renegade needs a buff, I havent seen a single CW using that tree because it brings to little to the table.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?
I miss the shard CW, I havent seen a single CW using the shard i PvP since M4 release and thats boring. Everyone is running the same gear, same feats and same encounters. Boooooring.

Are there any feats you would change? How so?
Assailing feat should buff encounters, not giving an DoT damage. Bring the skill back to the CW.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)
Again, move the damage to our encounters so that skill is needed to play the CW. Letting DoTs and passives doing all the work for you is boring.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?
It would be harder, you would have to think about what you doing and when to do it.

Why is this change at the top of your list?
Because a boring CWs is a boring CW and it needs to be fun again.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?
1. Visual bugs on the ORB and some races like Dragonborn.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?
Shard. It needs a big damage buff in PvP. Buff the damage like 50% for PvP only, or add a damage cap on X targets so its still nerfed for PvE. It should still prone like it does today, but in PvE it should only do damage to X amount of adds.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?
PvP would have two playstyles instead of one. PvE should not be affected.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?
Never gonna use Flame since it dont have EOTS and I also would lose the ecounter and daylies I like the most for PvP.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?
No. There needs to be MORE creative gear bonuses and they have to be at the same level as High Vizer. You have repeated this problem in every single mod. Nobody uses the new gear because its not as good as the HV set. Its as simple as that.

Also overloadslots are the worst. Remove them and dont ever add them again.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

As always, please be constructive, respectful, and refrain from inflammatory comments in your answers.

abecassis · October 2014

jayrad8 wrote: »

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Yes and No, im speaking mostly for PvP now, but everyone has so high damage output that CWs are countering it pretty well with their damage on proccs. We are literally back to mod 3 as a supporter/dps role but its less fun then it was previously
Those presumably being:
i) Fix known bugs
ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general
iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups
iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

Yes, the damage is viable, and the CC is great. Good HRs and SWs can outdamage a CW by miles, which i find fair since we have the CC as well as decent damage.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?
It always a wait and see game, there are so many changes constantly so many fotm builds. All i want now is for them to stop changing things and let players get used to how the classes work for once. I want to add that the balance was best the days when Tenacity patch was released, before mod3. Still it remains to be seen what they do with HRs who are currently HAMSTER CWs. I think oppressor tree and renegade needs a big buff in PvP, because as of today there is no reason to go either of them.
4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?
Oppressor was always a CCing tree, Thaum was a AoE dps tree, and Renegade was a single target tree. As of today, thaum is all those things in one tree. This is what needs to be changed IMO, and divide it abit without nerfing thaum tree.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?
As i said above, Oppressor = CC tree, Thaum = AoE DPS, Renegade = Single Target

Are there any feats you would change? How so?
I would change everything in Renegade back to how it was. I would change Oppressor last feat to ignore the latest changes to the Freeze immune on players, because it is after all a CC tree, maybe reduce the damage on it if it needs to be balanced but im not sure about that.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Not really, no more changes IMO for a while.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?
1: Repel! ! ! ! ! !
2: fix Steal Time so it dosent procc Weapon Enchants when you cancel it. Also it adds HV stacks , so every 4 seconds.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?
I would like a buff to Magic Missile, currently it does less damage then Ray of Frost, which also freezes ppl! there is no reason to use it. Really what im hoping for is more viable builds in both PvE and PvP. People running the same builds everywhere you looks makes it really boring and predictable to fight in PvP.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?
Never used Master of Flame because its lacking EoTS. But spellstorm is grea

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?
Well, since beta HV was BiS for PvE, 4 modules later, it still is. IWD gear is BiS for PvP, i guess thats good, but we kinda missed new PvP gear with the new module

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)
Dont care

As always, please be constructive, respectful, and refrain from inflammatory comments in your answers.

Thats it i guess.

davecheese · October 2014

Hey, congrats on becoming Advocate! I'm sure you'll do well

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Partially. The bug fixes were very welcome, but I think there's many people here that think the gameplay of CWs is now overly simplified.

I definitely think more improvement is needed on the feat trees, Renegade especially needs an overhaul. On the generic feat selection Battlewise and Lightning Teleport need some love. We've previously talked about letting arcane stacks go higher, or increasing the range of teleport.

I'm ok with the SotEA damage reduction, but the prone vs players seems very variable.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

I've little experience playing other classes, but I feel that I can make a valuable contribution to PUGs when I focus on DPS. I don't feel that I can make a valuable enough contribution as a team buffer or debuffer as much now with the loss of the CoI capstone debuff.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

This is very hard to measure, because it's tricky to find someone who is equally geared to compare skill levels. I've beaten people with a higher GS, and lost to people with a lower GS. I definitely believe there is some way to go in making CWs more worthwhile in Gauntlgrym style play. But then, I'm on the Luskan side!

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon? Are there any feats you would change? How so?

In Oppressor I'd rework: Bitter cold(cold spells do 1% more damage/rank), Brisk Transport(teleport uses less stamina), Alacrity (rework)
In Thaum I'd rework: Malevolant Surge, Snap Freeze
In Renegade I'd rework: Critical Power (+1% crit sev/rank), Unrestrained Chaos (rework), Nightmare Wizardry(better chance), Masterful Arcane Theft (extend duration of steal time and ray debuffs), Chaos Magic (complete rework)

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be?

Give some love to the Renegade tree!

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

(1) Repel bugs (2) Icy Rays bugs (3) Tooltip information

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

Definitely! Arcane Presence, Chilling Presence, and Stormfury. Need some Dev attention, as they're all incredibly rubbish compared to other choices. I started a thread about this over at http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?760831-Arcane-Chilling-Presence-amp-Stormfury

I'd also look at Icy Terrain, it needs some additional buff when in tab.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

I've never played MoF, because they have too many cold spells! (Silly, I know!).

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

I very much like the idea of armour sets buffing particular powers, along the line of the artifact weapons, rather than generic set bonuses. However, I suspect this is more likely to come in the form of a weapon slot, where a particular gem will buff an individual power.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs?

I'm completely happy to support testing of off the wall powers and new effects on the preview server. I think we'd all like to try out a new selection of powers that make us think on how to make them be the most effective.

pointsman · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Those presumably being:

i) Fix known bugs

Yes, I like that Armor Penetration works now for pretty much everything. OF course, they need to continue with the bug fixes.

ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general

Well I don't know if CWs in PVE have been "toned down", rather that they have been overshadowed in the DPS department by Fury SW's. Which is fine by me IMO. Also the new content discourages CW stacking, which is also fine by me.

iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups

It's still effective to stack CWs in add-heavy older content, which won't change until/unless the content is revamped.

iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

Well they didn't really succeed here. They tried to make Oppressor more viable, and it is to a certain degree, but not as much as it could be. They really screwed up the Renegade tree IMO. Their change to Nightmare Wizardry was the right call because it was too OP for a T2 feat, but IMO Renegade should be the crit-heavy, Arcane-based, striker-based CW and not the party support path that they are turning it into. If anything Thaum should be the party-support path.

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

I like helping the group succeed through PVE content by controlling adds. I care less about killing the adds myself than I do about making sure that they are under control.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

Well I don't know if the buff to Storm Fury was merited because nobody uses that anyway. I'd like to see that change in a different direction to make it actually worthwhile.

I agree that the Mod3 EOTS had to be changed because it was OP. I don't know if the change was the correct one though but I don't have any better ideas on how it should have been changed.

I don't like the change to Focused Wizardry. I think that was changed in order to placate the PVP crowd. Now that feat is a buggy mess.

And I know that everyone complained about the change to Shard but, personally, I am glad to be free of the bowling ball. It is a buggy quirky encounter that led to LESS control on the mobs because it scattered them all out everywhere. Sure the CW that was good with Shard would undeniably be top on Paingiver, but that is not the complete measure of a good CW. A CW that completed a run with a team that is irritated at the CW who spread out the adds everywhere by spamming Shard and Oppressive Force, making it harder for them, is not a "successful" CW in my view.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

Well, they are not "balanced" in the sense that most teams would be well served by having a CW along, even if that CW is a low-DPS Oppressor spec, so CWs are always going to be wanted in a dungeon, unlike other classes. They aren't balanced in terms of DPS in the old content but they never will be due to the nature of the content itself. CWs don't bring a whole lot of utility to the new content, what the CW does can just as easily be done by almost any other class, so I guess in that sense it's "balanced".

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

I don't care at all about PVP.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

I would suggest:

Oppressor: chill-based control CW, low DPS but has the ability, if played well, to perma-freeze adds in a dungeon, high-tier feats and/or capstone feat should include buffs to chill stacks *as well as* increasing target caps on pure control spells like Singularity and Entangling Force
Thaumaturge: DoT/debuff-based support CW, most of its DPS would be DoT and not burst damage, high-tier feats and/or capstone feat would give powerful debuffs and DoTs (both chill-based and arcane-based) and would give buffs to encounters that are DoT-based like Icy Terrain and Conduit of Ice
Renegade: arcane-based striker CW, high burst DPS, Renegade should be the one that is consistently #1 on Paingiver, high-tier feats and/or capstone feat should increase crit chance/crit severity, buffs to arcane stacks, and also single-target abilities (something like Focused Wizardry should be moved into Renegade tree)

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

See above.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Have the ability to increase target caps on encounters/dailies for CWs who choose to forsake DPS in favor of control.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

I think this change would truly make something like an Oppressor spec more valuable. Right now, since all CWs suffer from the same target caps, it's not really possible for one type of CW to offer more control in terms of gathering mobs as opposed to other types of control. I don't know, nor do I care, how it would affect PVP.

Why is this change at the top of your list?

Because, quite frankly, I have never been interested in being top paingiver.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

1. Fix Focused Wizardry
2. Have a more consistent definition of what constitutes "control spell" or "AOE encounter" as it relates to all of our gear (HV stacks, etc.) and all of our feats
3. Fix the Rimefire Smolder bug

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

I would do something to buff the encounters and passives that no one seems to use, in order to increase diversity of playstyles. So e.g. do something with Evocation, or Maelstrom of Chaos, or Arcane Presence so that people can find more creative ways to build their CWs.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

I don't know, but it could only help.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

I have not played Spellstorm in Mod 4 so I cannot comment on that. I really like Master of Flame. It is quite fun. That being said, it is irritating how the Rimefire Smolder mechanic works in crediting the damage to the person who refreshes the smolder, rather than to the person who applied the smolder. It makes the MoF CW seem less worthwhile than it really is. I do think MoFs got a well-deserved buff in Mod 4.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

I would like to see more diversity in top-end gear choices, that do *not* rely on ICDs. To that extent I think the Draconic set is a step in the right direction, unlike the Fabled Iliyanbruen or the Dread Legion gear.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

Ideally we would have separate PVP and PVE characters, and PVP characters would have a set of PVP skills, PVE characters would have a set of PVE skills, and they would not interact each other, so that one could be buffed/nerfed without affecting the other.

If that isn't possible (and it doesn't seem like it is), then CW "balance", if such a thing is even possible, should be designed around PVE. Because this game is mostly about PVE, *most players* are PVE-focused, and CWs *in particular* are more PVE-focused because they are so strong in PVE.

But if you try to please both groups simultaneously, neither one will be satisfied. We've seen that over and over again. So if you have to choose which group to please, choose the group (PVE CWs) that really demonstrate the strengths of the class. Our strengths lie in being able to control tons of adds, not in being able to one-shot perma-stealth TRs or in being able to perma-freeze GFs.

Furthermore devs should not listen to the whiners who want CWs nerfed because they have chips on their shoulder or are just jealous of CWs in PVE.

hefisdo · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?
Honestly... not. Yes, I think they achieved some goals like making the CW stack in a group be more unnecessary, but they are still mandatory in a party due to their high damage input.

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?
I liked the Shard nerf (yes, I think they nerfed it too hard, but I know it was just too good in any aspect), I liked the Orb of Imposition buff too. I like CW because it's a Wizard, and it will stick as my main forever... unless if they change the playstyle too much to something that I don't like.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?
I didn't like ANY of the heroic/paragon feat changes. None satisfied me and generally speaking all of them made me disappointed.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?
More arcane spells and less cold spells to be honest.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?
I don't feel comfortable to talk about this yet since TRs and DCs are still unbalanced.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?
Same above.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?
Oppressors controlling, Thaumaturges dealing AoE damage and Renegades dealing single-target damage.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?
Same above.

Are there any feats you would change? How so?
Assailing Force, Shattered Strike, Elemental Empowerment, and any other feat that deals damage by itself instead of increasing the damage or control. Also I'd remake the entire Renegade path.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be?
Everything I said in the previous questions I guess. But the one I want the most is the change to the paragon feats.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?
Oppressors and Renegades would be more interesting on PvP and PvE and Thaumaturges less interesting for PvP.

Why is this change at the top of your list?
In my opinion the paths are unbalanced, Renegade is horrible and Oppressor and Thaumaturge aren't fun to play for most people I talked with about it.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?
Orb Visual Misalignment, such as the tomes and the skull orb... that I forgot the name.
Shard disappearing when you're CCed.
Every tooltip inconsistency and incorrectly tagged powers (such as powers not being considered control, AoE or single-target powers while they actually are) bugs. (I'll count this as one, sorry)

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?
- Magic Missile should be the best single-target at-will. It needs a damage buff.
- All the class features coming from paragon paths need slight nerfs.
- Orb of Imposition should increase the control effectivity by 25/12,5/12,5%, with 50% as total.
- Evocation should increase the AoE damage by 15/5/5%, with 25% as total.
- Arcane and Chilling Presence should increase the Arcane and Cold damage by 15/5/5%, with 25% as total for each, respectively.
- Storm Spell should have a 50% chance to be triggered, but receive a 80% damage decrease or something around that.

There's a lot of stuff I'd do but specific changes is a topic for a whole thread.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?
A nerf for the CW control is needed on PvP, Magic Missile would be used again and the paragon path class features would be toned down, as needed. Also Storm Spell would have more consistency to its damage.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?
What I'd like is Spellstorm dealing more damage in fast battles and Master of Flame dealing more damage in long fights. They're currently doing it but I think Spellstorm is doing just too much.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?
High Vizier needs to be toned down. And also I'm pretty sure no CWs want deflection in their gear.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs?
I reeeeeaaaaaally want a fix to the position of the books when levitating and a fix to the CW jump animation. It was much better before the changes.

ghoulz66 · October 2014

I'm SURE you know what's wrong with the renegade tree! For starters they lied about nightmare wizardry, it's still 5%. The capstone doesn't work on allies.

Magic missile. Scorching adds smolder, Pillar procs storm spell, chilling cloud does all sorts of things, icy ray freezes. But for some messed up reason they're all better for overall DPS. Magic missile just adds arcane stacks. Renegade is a very arcane heavy path, but because of all these nerfs they just can't compete or do w/e role they were supposed to do. Missile does not chill, or debuff, even procs spell storm less than the others.

Renegades have to jump the freeze bandwagon because their arcane powers except steal time were nerfed severely.

aulduron · October 2014

jayrad8 wrote: »

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

Just about every change was unnecessary, IMO.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

I say that Class Balance is a myth. The only way to balance classes, the way some players want, is to eliminate all but one. The best you can do is to make all classes strong and useful. GFs have been made useful. Presumably TRs and DCs will become better soon.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

I've never played Thaum or Oppressor, so I can't comment. I like the changes you proposed here for Renegades

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?752541-Unofficial-Feedback-Thread-M4-Control-Wizard/page2

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

To make renegades viable again.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

I'd take the new damage away from passives and feats, and put it back on our encounters, where they belong.
Get rid of the cooldown on EotS

Shard needs most of its damage back. At least enough to make it useful. It is incredibly rare to see a shard being thrown.

This one I say as a GWF, HR, DC: Undo the changes to Singularity. My CW never liked being a singbot, but my other AE strikers, and my healer need those mobs together. Few CWS are using this daily anymore.

Make Arcane stacking viable again.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

It would allow me to bring more than just HV/GPF debuffs to a group in PvE, and allow me to PvP again.

relativity · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

No. In fact they have practicaly limited all CWs to thauma, chill SS CWs. Oppressor was promising at the beginning, but further nerfs after further nerfs (chill immunity, shattered) rendered it useless again. And renegade (which I stick too out of sentimental reasons) has been out right slaughtered.
The positive changes - MoC became finally a pretty decent daily although it has one flaw that needs to be fixed (50% Action Points loss while cancelled). Also shield is now useful in both pvp and some pve boss fights.
On the other hand change to spell storm was completely unnecessary, unexpected and unwanted. It should be reverted to what it was before m4. I also did not like disregarding arcane spells in favour of chill ones. I would buff arcane spells (through arcane enhancement feat), that should also help to increase shard damage, magic missile damage and renegade tree in general. Last but not least: messing with casting time made play more clumsy, encounters won't fire off or will be canceled if you quickly choose another one.

I would like to see CWs go three valid, separate ways: either controller (oppressor), or dot debuff dps (thauma), or burst cha, crit, combat advantage dps (renegade)

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

Pretty balanced. As renegade I'm not outdpsing pure dps classes, I'm not taking aggro as often as before.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

Pretty much so. CWs are not dying like flies any more.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

As others have said, bring back skilful play to CWs. Shard was lots of fun, especially in PvP.
I'd like to see oppressor as pure controller and other trees as different dps ways: thauma dot, debuf dps, and renegade as crit, combat advantage dps. For SS paragon: thauma also should spec in chill spells and renegade in arcane ones. This would make all spells useful. But for this, arcane spells need serious buff. For one, i'd buff arcane enhancement feat to 6/9/12%. This would help shard. Steal time would be OP, therefore it's damage should be brought back to where it was. Magic missile would be useful again. Now we have situation when you can empower your chill at will with 3 feats if you choose so, and MM... even buff from chaos magic is gone now.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Show some love to arcane spells! Pros: not every CW limited to thauma tree, not every CW limited to chill spells (especially MoFs!) Renegade (who used to use arcane spells predominantly) would be empowered, shard would be empowered.
Also I'd finally fix MoC and remove 50% AP loss while cancelled by dodge. MoC is the only CW daily that does not benefit from new dodge mechanics. Not only MoC has horribly small aoe, it has long casting time, so loss of AP is completely unfair.
Plus: I'd completely rework renegade capstone. It is useless (and probably bugged - I haven't noticed that allies benefit from it). The best capstone would be the one that reduces or shortly removes casting time, ICD and CD on every encounter, daily, feat. This could be chance based or stack based buff. Far more useful then current one.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

Repel, RoE, EoTS.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

Magic Missile - this is now the least useful at will. Will not slow you down, will not provide small aoe, and hits the hardest (which is still weaker then chilling cloud) after you gain all 5 arcane stack. Which is, with most CWs using chill encounters, pretty long lasting process.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

I'm not fond of MoF, so cannot compare. But spellstorm is pretty much so.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

This is pretty sad that best CW set is open beta t2 one. You would think that with each module sets will be better. I'd go for sets that offer more control, control resist, stamina gain and one purely dps with power/crit/arm pen choice. I liked dread ring focus on life steal. Single stat oriented sets would be nice as well.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

CWs combat stance has been horribly changed. Now CWs look like zombiefied kids with loaded diaper and limbing. This is horrid to look at.

helpimblindinrl · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Those presumably being:

i) Fix known bugs
ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general
iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups
iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

Wizards are still the strongest pve class, that's obvious to everyone but there's not much that can be done about it. They neutered control way back around launch. The best control now is stunlock and to an extent grouping. Mostly stunlock. So we have damage and some control, our damage is aoe hence the largest generally.

There is less wizard stacking I think so I guess they won there. Wizard stacking is still effective but because the debuffs got spread out a bit its more of a why not bring different peeps

The playstyles are distinct in the sense thaum is better because the other trees are garbage. Oppressor got useless because of pvp and nightmare wizardry, almost the only worthwhile thing in renegade, is on a 5% chance now. Thaum isn't even that likeable because the "good" stuff is just a function of weapon damage.

I like that cw is a risky playstyle with high rewards in pve. You have to get in close to do your stuff but you dont have huge mitigation or health so your timing and doging have to be good and the nice numbers are your reward for doing that. I preferred picking up like 16 mobs and shield banging them off cliffs but this is ok too.

People generally preferred the big damage on encounters rather than having procs make up the dead space. I kind of agree but I don't care that much.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

Hard to compare in some cases.

The TR is redundant and garbage compared to everything so why even bother saying wizards are out of balance with it.

The GF is acomplishing different goals extrmeley effectively so its apples oranges.

Warlocks are so buggy its hard to tell what they are supposed to be. Since tyranical threat fix I havent done a run with a really geared one but the general perception I get from others is that they are lower damage than wizards again.

HR still seems kind of weak but its a tough one to balance because the pve ones sit at the back with much less risk than a cw going toe to toe with mobs with much weaker defence.

The GWF is weak in pve in comparison because they were over nerfed, there was no way they should have continued as they were but what happened was ott by far. Class was about speed and now they are neurotic about keeping their stacks up and while doing so much less.

The dc is in a rough spot, different goals to the cw but all they got is debuff now which is effective but not great fun for them.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

PVP is mostly unbalanced because of gear and 80k respecs. That said no not really

A combar hr is so obviously better than a cw with extremley high deflect chance and severity, heals on deflect, huge unmitigated damage that continues to activate as they move and stealth and instant control from constricting arrow.

GF is generally going to be stronger. Bind shield and lockon to the same key and you will never get behind him which you have to do to do anything and because they and other classes have a armour pen ability score they will eat through the defence and tenacity you have with no issue. For all the fixing of ap gain from kv its still a ridiculous power as it stands for pvp. So much mitigation given to others with next to no demands on being in the right place. A gf can protect his team better than a dc most of the time.

GWF destroyers range from fun to too easy. A really really well geared sentinel is going to be unpleasant though. Endless sprint, decent cc, endless hp.

DC is a total gimp unless they go a pure you can't kill me annointed champion pvp only build and then its just a long whittle down which is effective I guess. Kind of. I feel bad for dcs in pvp but just about every class has to feel that way

SW dunno, still really buggy and so many different builds happening. Saw a guy race around the other day for ages. Hard to hurt can't control. We can ask again in a month or two. Generally they die. I have a 60 one but I havent played it much for a variety of reasons. I don't enjoy dreadtheft as a power and its mandatory. Stuff like that.

TR is an interesting one. If you know you are going to be fighting a tr its fine generally. By fine I mean you will almost certainly get them because the dumbest players by far seem to be trs. Its the sniper of Neverwinter. But good players are still going to be strong. TR even when not perma stealth can go a long time without you being able to hurt him at all and can a lot of the time just leave if things arent going his way. Not really sure. If you don't know you are going to fight a tr as you arrive at the point that can be unpleasant. They do really well in dwarf valley because of all the cover.

The biggest complaint you see about cws is about storm spell. Our at will aren't great and all the encounters are dodgeable, the control post tenacity isn't exactly super and the damage has to come from somewhere that isn't icy rays or a daily. I'm fine with it being storm spell I guess. Unlike other peoples bleeds and piercing we have to actually stand around to do it.

Our biggest deficet is our tankyness or lack thereof. You cant get like 15 -20% absolute max deflect on a cw which is totally unreliable and its by far the most effective stat. Everyone else has an ability score for penetration so they will eat through defence without issue which negates tenacity so our real defence is basically hitpoints and if you really want to push it shield. Top hp for a halfling with a con belt is probably what 50k. I'm not going to buy a race respec to go find out. Anyway without mitigation players will just go through that like anything. More realistically you are going to see peeps at 30k-40k. I guess you have severe reaction too but thats for peeps that only pvp or are willing to pay 80k each way. If you did both in an evening thats like 160k a night.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

Can't really fix oppressor because of pvp, people got stunned too long. That's how it is. Maybe if they gave the class expanded targets on shield, repel and singularity so it could be more like a launch/beta cw.

Renegade has been gimpy for a long time now. No idea what they want to accomplish.

I don't like thaum being what it is now, i liked when assailant and the other one were debuffs, I like having a reason to put points in the shard feat. Chilling cloud is still decent and the initial ones are alright for pve.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

I suppose control, dps and group buffer. It beats cripple, viable and go home.

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Give singularity a real big target cap again. Its the most group friendly of the daily powers and it just died a death.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

The gwf damage would go up plenty, more controlly. Zero effect on pvp where no one uses except by accident.

Why is this change at the top of your list?

Its a group game or it is at its most fun

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

Shard is the most irritating power to use. I would love for what is aoe and what is control to be listed and made standard across feats and gear. That would be nice

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

Storm fury is garbage, chilling presence and arcane dont see a lot of daylight.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

no idea

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

I play spellstorm, didnt care for MoF when it came out but it seems popular enough that it must be working fine.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

There isn't any gear selection. You have hv for pve and probably corruped for pvp because no other way are you likely to break through defence.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

The aprons should go. They are on practically everything and they look awful

As always, please be constructive, respectful, and refrain from inflammatory comments in your answers.

rashylewizz · October 2014

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

I think HRs are able to quickly kill a CW and can heal up to full health with their lifesteal. HRs are also more adept at killing TRs, other HRs and GWFs.

I think CWs are balanced in PVP with respect to other classes apart from the HR in which case the CW becomes easy prey because of the HR's Disruptive shot, Boar Charge and Piercing Blades.

Either rework the HR's skills or give CWs more dodges to balance out HR's multiple dodges, movement encounters and stealth.

[did not comment on TRs and DCs because they are going to get an overhaul]

chemboy613 · October 2014

Let me volunteer to talk to you about MOF anytime you like, in case you only play spellstorm. The other paragon is substantially different.

Those presumably being:

i) Fix known bugs
Most of the bugs have been fixed, to my knowledge

ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general

CW are still best in old content, but properly balanced in new content. This has a lot to do with the design of the dungeon rather than the classes themselves.

iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups

It's still effective, but this is due to the fact that TR/HR often underperform. SW, GF, GWF and DC all perform great. (some hr do great too, rarely does TR do great)

iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

Thaum is just plain better. The control of oppressor simply cannot make up for the damage you give up. Also, the arcane spells of renegade don't make up for giving up all that chill. As far as I am concerned, this is a massive failure.

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

I just love my CW, period. They change things, it doesn't matter. She's still amazing.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

Nerfing fanning the flame was a very bad move. Sudden storm with chill is still OP.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

Just tweaking. They are fine as is.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

In the new content? Yes - but CWs really aren't all that useful.
In the old content - CW are a bit OP because we can pull rooms. This is due to gear being too good and flawed design.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

I don't PvP enough to comment, but i think so.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

Oppressor - if you give them enough control, they become OP in PvP, but if you give them DPS, there is no differentiation.
Thaum - this tree is great, don't touch it.
Renegade - Feats are just underpowered. Remember, arcane spells have less control so they should do more damage, hence this tree needs a buff.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

I am pretty grounded in my playstyle, but i wish other people could change their and not simply be worse.

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

Sudden storm with chill is simply OP. This feat cannot stand.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Buff fanning the flame, either more damage or remove target cap. It has to be similar to sudden storm, this the fail spell it is now.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

We wouldn't have nonsense threads like "why MOF is worse at everything" It would balance the paragons.
In PVP? it wouldn't matter much, but we know PvP whiners complain about everything.

Why is this change at the top of your list?

I am tired of defending my paragon path, every day, for months on the forums. It's good, but let people have a good fire spell.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

I don't think rimfire is bugged, but if it is, please fix it. It's a key mechanic for MOF.
The SW set shouldn't have ICD. It's not as bad as 2 minutes, but that needs to be fixed. We shouldn't have one set that is almost always better than the other.
Shard - disappears when CCed seems really silly to me.

Honorable Mention - RoE - the fact it doesn't stack makes it useless on mastery. Seems silly.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

Fanning the flame needs buff, see above

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

I love my MOF and i think it's great. Spellstorm is great too, so i am happy. I just think fanning needs to be balanced with sudden storm.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

The new sets are useless. The stats either make no sense or the bonus is terrible. Design something i want to use.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

Don't like the crab walk when walking forward. Everything else is awesome.

Again, i'm glad to help you with the MOF paragon however you'd like. Many great players don't understand this paragon path, but i do so i'm glad to assist you.

katamaster81899 · October 2014

I don't suppose we can get a look at your build and stats just to see what our class is being represented by?

kieranmtorn · October 2014

I'm going to skip most of the replies, since others have already covered the issues. The ones I'm commenting on are what really affects me (I have 1 of each class and a Thaum and my primary is a 17k GS Renegade).

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

Fix oppressor so that they aren't screwed by other people using chill stacking. Thaum, convert proc abilities to damage buffs. Renegade: start over (I have both a Thaum and a Renegade, Renegade in mod3 was fun, in mod4 it's pointless). Arcane got nerfed by the need to chill stack to sustain enough control to get damage using proc abilites, Renegade's primarily played a Critical Strikes/Critical Severity/Char based play using Arcane skills. That got ruined. As a party buf bot, Renegade is a sad joke since Nightmare and Chaos Magic are mostly useless (doesn't proc enough or is already supplied by more common Marking skills). Renegade should emphasis a high risk, high reward burst spike type play-style (like it did in mod3). The capstone should be discarded and replace by something that compensates for the structual penalty of using the Renegade tree (having to waste 5 feat points on an additional Tier 1 skill or a garbage Tier 2 skill).

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

Oppressor: control at the expense of damage, should be effective in mod4 (where so many of the monsters are control immune, should provide compensation in those cases).
Thaum: consistent damage, debuffs, predictable play.
Renegade: spike/burst damage (ie Crit/Charisma/Severity), rewarding risky aggressive play (like it was in mod3).

theosymphany · October 2014

Thank you for doing this. This list is non exhaustive but is what has been on my mind so far.

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Those presumably being:

i) Fix known bugs
ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general
iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups
iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

Overall no. I'm glad a lot of bugs got fixed and some very weak feats and the like get redesigned. Oppressor is a viable path and plays well. However, CW damage, at least with storm spell is not balanced. CW stacked is addressed somewhat but that's also because many started playing SWs.

Renegade tree lacks an identity.

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?
Oppressor buff and capstone change, great sorely needed.
Chilling presence to party buff, great.
Armor penetration finally working. Great, after a whole year.
Swath of Destruction boost. Needed for MoF paragon.
Shield rework- helpful and needed.
Controlled momentum rework as party buff, great.
Capstone reworks, great for thaum and oppressor.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?
I do not agree with gentlemancrush's idea of balancing DPS powers based on 'damage per cast'. The whole point of encounters is that they are to be situational and you would want to pick that spell in particular situations. However, basing damage sorely based on the time it takes to cast and massaging its cooldown time to 'balance' the damage, and ignoring the secondary benefits/AP gain/procs/effects of that power is myopic.

Sudden storm is a hard hitting short uncapped targets cooldown spell. It still is. FtF was a hard hitting semiDoT power with a reasonable duration that procced interesting effects. It's now an average hitting power with mildly interesting effects with a much longer cooldown that indirectly weakened its paragon. FtF needs to be strengthened (more later).
Chill strike and CoI and in a sense Icy Rays off tab lost their differences. RoE is weak but I understand it puts a party debuff so it's a reasonable choice.
Steal time does more damage per target as an AoE power compared to single targets. Icy terrain + storm spell procs does more damage than some single target powers. You can see how trying to balance using 'damage per cast' lead to all these unintended, and even more unbalanced powers.
Singularity target cap drop didn't balance the power. It killed it. Sing is rarely used wellnow, because the situations where you have 8 mobs or less which are NOT control immune, that won't come to you or a tank with aggro anyway just hardly exist. It basically means more DPSing even less control, for the whole party.
Magic Missile and Chilling cloud lost their respective strengths. Without considering artifact weapons, chilling cloud is almost always the best at will for single target and AoE damage.
Nightmare wizardry should have its rework reversed after being in third tier. Right now it is just in an awkward place for renegades because they need to take both T3 feats, meaning they have to commit 25 points to renegade tree.
Finally, towards the end of the testing period Storm Spell was adjusted massively. Nobody ever complained it was too weak or too strong. This one step destroyed any concept of reducing CW damage or balancing paragon/feat paths. At its first iteration it was doing 60%+ of a SSCW's powers. Current in live it still does 25-30% of a SS CW's overall DPS. Why do you want to give CWs a new Deep Gash? In one fell swoop you've destroyed all your single target power balancing as well as overall DPS tone down of the class and gave them a damage boost instead. None of the other class abilities give more than 15% or so DPS boost, and it should have been clear from the endless ACT parses submitted as evidence that Storm Spell damage is out of line even after rework. Nope, ignored.

As a result, playing a spellstorm is no longer about utilising procs and rotations well. An unskilled player with the right setup can be 70-80% as effective as a vet. Here's how.

Finally, the concept of power difference between T1 to T4 feats are broken down. T1 used to be about 5% boost in something and this increased up to T4 for about 10% boost. With many of the rework that aspect is gone and there is no real yardstick for comparing how strong a feat should be in a particular tier.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

I do not agree with the sentiment expressed often in the forums that CW should be control not DPS, nor do I think they should be a one shot iwin button. I want the players to be able to have choice of their place in that continuum and for both sides to be viable and effective.

Since launch the control element of CW was progressively weakened and replaced with DPS. This basically means there is only one way to do dungeons and one way to play CWs, and now nobody's happy about CWs, their damage, their control and their PvP prowess. Mod 4 gave back chill control, but arcane control is well and truly gone.

Playing Mod 2-3 CW was a lot more dependent on situational awareness, timing and rotation to get the most out of your feats. Now it's just chill stacks and storm spell procs. There is little reward or incentive to actually play your class better. This means players are bored with the game that much much faster.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

With a tone down in storm spell damage it is getting closer towards where they should be damage wise. They still excel in traditional T2 dungeons but in Mod 4 content I see other classes performing very well DPS wise as well as other class roles.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

Stopped PvPing since module 3 precisely because the ideas of balance implemented do not translate to gameplay.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

All three paths require balance.
Balance is making all choices so good that you're torn and committed by picking one over another. You have to think about what will help your aims and playstyle and whether it's worth giving up something else. Where there are all good choices then there will be good variety of generalist and specialist builds. Right now there is often a good choice and a bad choice, which means of course, that there is no choices at all.

For example, renegade CW have nothing that is of significant value to themselves or their party pertaining to the class roles after the balance. Many of the feats are underpowered compared to equal tiered feats of the other trees.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

Oppressor and thaum are largely ok and differentiated in their roles. Renegade should be either a more RNG based path (high risk high reward spike damage, which it was previously) or a more tactical one (reward for lining up your shots and procs). Right now it's a mishmash of neither and overall struggles compared to the other 2.

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

Drifting embers (along with Fanning the Flame) is sorely in need of a rework. I outlined why and how here:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692711-Official-Feedback-Thread-Control-Wizard-Changes&p=8682201#post8682201

Both Tier 2 feats in renegade tree are very weak. The healing of Energy Recovery is too conditional, and effect both weak and useless. A whole round of CC means rooting for 2+ seconds for a small temp HP heal. With good lifesteal you get way more from encounters anyway, and if you're struggling to survive you don't have 2 seconds to spam an at will. It should also give mitigation or a HoT.
Unrestrained chaos is weak simply because MoC is very situational and very rarely used. With sudden storm and Chilling control putting instant chill stacks aren't an issue, and arcane stacks are too short lived.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)
Storm spell needs to have its proc rate or damage toned back to 15-20% of a CW's damage, if that. It's way too powerful and easily exploited. Also puts MoF in a horrible spot, where the DoT paragon is out dotted by storm spell procs (which are not really dots, but same concept).

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?
1. Reduce CW damage back towards what was intended.
2. Closes the gap between SS and MoF paragons
3. Fixes indirectly some issues of steal time and icy terrain doing more damage than single target powers due to storm spell procs.

Why is this change at the top of your list?

As above

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?
Combustive action debuff not working properly. Further weakens an already disadvantaged paragon. Also the smoulder procc and hence AP gain of combustive action seemed to have been internally capped since Mod4, further limiting its potential.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

Arcane stacks are currently too short lived and limited for them to be useful. They need be easier to obtain and to last longer, especially since Mod 4 gave chill stacks so much more flexibility.
Furious Immolation is an ok gathering and dazing tool, but it still doesn't help for repositioning because mobs move out and charge you as soon as they drop even when feated. They need to rooted for that duration also for it to be a useful power.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

Would buff arcane powers and magic missile

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?
No. Spellstorm CW are very easy to play and really almost require little skill to do well (see reddit link above). MoF is more interesting playstyle wise, but the since the DoT damage still rarely kick in (players will happily still kill something with lethal DoTs) they remain unpopular and in the eyes of many, less effective.

Spellstorm has too much. They have the better encounter, 2 very strong class features and decent feats for them. MoF have a better situational daily, some ok class feature and better at will but horrible feats. Think about it, if critical conflagaration and storm spell are swapped there will be much better balance and synergy.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?
There are more choices opened with overload slots, draconic set is decent. Shadow weaver 90 second internal cooldown should be removed.
10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

As always, please be constructive, respectful, and refrain from inflammatory comments in your answers.

Unknown · October 2014

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magiquepurse · October 2014

Ezra, I know you're just the advocate for M4, but it's still your job as a CW to try to prevent the catastrophic Preview changes. There's no need to explain how killing Storm Spell will destroy the class completely in PvP since we cannot compensate from anywhere else, while other classes have the ability to ONE SHOT, as I am sure you witnessed on your own CW already.

Time to work your magic and try to do something that will keep CW semi-relevant.

Good luck.

diogene0 · October 2014

16.5k CW player reporting in!

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

Yes and no. Yes in terms of damage, CWs have been toned down, but SS is still far superior to fire in that regard. Mostly because of storm spell.

Those presumably being:

i) Fix known bugs
ii) Tone down CWs in PvE in general
iii) Reduce the effectiveness of stacking CWs in PvE groups No.
iv) Provide three balanced yet distinctive playstyles through the feat trees

Yes and it sucks. Having a bit of everything doesn't effect the game, some other game mechanics do (see below).

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

Shard now has the right amount of damage for the amount of control it provides. What I like about the CW class is the ability to play with a lot of npcs at once. The more npcs the better. Unfortunately newer boss don't have hordes of adds so my CW is quite useless.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

The fanning the flame nerf - seirously fire is so lame it didn't need that. Same comment for chill strike, this spell didn't need to be nerfed into uselessness. The CD for both spells is way too long to make them interesting. Also no high vizier nerf... It would be about time.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

CC and dps is fine by me. Having both is important. Less buffing and more of that.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

Mostly. HV needs its nerf then we'll be fine. Warlocks are far more powerful though, thanks to tyrannical threat.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

There's no way in hell CWs are competitive in pvp. It's a support, squishy class with almost no CC resist. All good classes have some CC resist, CWs used to have burst damage but this is getting nerfed module after module.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

Adding both control and damage options inside these trees. Different damage and different flavours of control. Oppressor is about chill, Thaum could be about arcane control spells. All CW trees should provide enough damage to make them a relevant PvP/PvE class.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

T2 thaum feats suck. They're bad. Anything else would be better.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Ok it's not only CW related but CWs are still considered OP in PvE and it's true for one reason: lifesteal makes them one of the top tank class in game. As long as it doesn't kill you, stand in red, keep casting until your 50 npcs pull died.

Basically, lifesteal in PvE makes CW far tankier than they should be, since a straight damage increase means being able to sustain more incoming damage and heal it back instantly.

A short list of the lifesteal issues cause to CWs and the gameplay in general:
- endless consumption. 1000 lifesteal, get 30% of your damage back once every 3 hit or so. No internal cooldown... This thing is madness.
- lifesteal and aoe: the more stuff you pull the more health you will regen. This is a strong incentive to speedrun and run from a door to the next one to aoe all the things at once. Ironically it makes your tanking better.
- the stats investment is minimal.
- in pve the equation is more damage = more survivability as long as lifesteal gives back a linear % of the damage. It makes the game very monotonous, all you see is max dps characters and no one to deal with incoming damage. Stay in red too, who cares, as long as it doesn't kill you and it's not a prone.

So if CWs are perceived still too strong in pve it's IMO mostly because of how lifesteal works. The CWs tanking is insane. So is the GWF one btw but it's not their thread. If lifesteal gets the rework it needs then the CWs damage output will be severely affected: no more 50 npcs pulls of d00m, door to door, CWs will start dodging a lot more to avoid incoming hits, and so on.

So yeah I'd rework lifesteal and would make it something like:
- heals you for 'lifesteal'% weapon damage on every hit, capped at 'lifesteal'% of max HPs per second.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

It wouldn't really affect pvp, the stat is useless, but as i said before it would stop the silly 50 npcs pulls and would make the CWs survivability where it should be: a squishy, high dps class. Well the squishy part would be back, for real.

Why is this change at the top of your list?

Because it's ruining the game experience and greatly favours stacking the same high aoe dps class: SWs, CWs and GWFs, makes all builds the same, max damage and no defense. That's monotonous and greatly trivializes the content.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

PWE is making 25% profit a year, seriously, they can't hire a couple of people to code bug fixes for one of their major games? We have to chose between fixes?

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How?

Sudden storm getting a target cap, fanning the flame and chill strike back to pre-nerf values. Shard of endless avalanche dealing 50% more damage against players to make it relevant in pvp again.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

Fire CW slightly more competitive, more single target damage in pve and pvp. Shard back to pvp usefullness would be one of the buffs the class desperately need in that environment.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

Nope. Fire is now underwhelming since the recent nerf. It used to be ok now it sucks. On a more personal tone, why no fireball for fire wizards?

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

New sets with bonus which aren't completely useless. NO MORE EXTRA DAMAGE SET BONUS. They're all bad. ToD did a good job in that regard, but HV is still way too strong. Also if we could stop mixing stats on different parts it would greatly improve our ability to see the strengths and weaknesses of sets. Like the draconic set, WTF did the designer had in mind when he gave different parts completely different stats? That's not user friendly.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

Could we please have decent helmets? 90% of the head gear in this game looks awful (read: concept looks cheap and execution is bad). If it were only affecting CWs but no...

As always, please be constructive, respectful, and refrain from inflammatory comments in your answers.

magiquepurse · October 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

So yeah I'd rework lifesteal and would make it something like:
- heals you for 'lifesteal'% weapon damage on every hit, capped at 'lifesteal'% of max HPs per second.
How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

It wouldn't really affect pvp, the stat is useless, but as i said before it would stop the silly 50 npcs pulls and would make the CWs survivability where it should be: a squishy, high dps class. Well the squishy part would be back, for real.

It would affect PvP considerably.

Things changed - many PvP CWs run all kinds of Inc Healing bonuses and 2k LS from Purified set, and Consumption as well. With such a build, you can get up to 40-50% healing from LS depending on the game.

Please don't touch it or provide an alternative.

xtraordinary91 · October 2014

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?
I think the devs succeeded to an extent, however, this is more due to the fact that the newer dungeons, are full of control immune mobs, and with the inclusion of Warlocks, the focus on Stacking CWs has been reduced. If the devs intended on making Cws a rather skill less type of play, they have succeeded.

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class? I liked the fact that now our abilities benefit from Armour Penetration, that was a move, long time in the coming. I feel that the inclusion of Focused Wizardry as a feat selection was a move in the right direction. I dislike the fact, that the majority of our damage has been moved across to skill-less procs, assailing force, Storm Spell, Elemental empowerment ect.

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them? The changes to single target powers, The reduction of this damage, and moving it to procs such as assailing force. This has reduced the entertainment value of the class, Especially in Pvp, where I no longer feel a sense of accomplishment, for pulling of a hard rotation. The amount of skill-less procs that Cws have access too, and the introduction of glyphs, have reduced the class to one that requires a high amount of skill to play effectively in PvP to one that anyone can play well.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go? I would like the class to move in a direction away from Skill less procs. With the current changes proposed to Trickster Rogues, I feel that Control wizards are going to require an increase in their options for survivability in pvp, especially with the intention to reduce our effective dps in pvp as well. I like the change of forcing us to choose between control and damage, however, should damage be chosen, the CW should be able to have an effective chance against the other classes. And for all that, the melee classes may complain that we have an 80 foot range, in a game type which requires players to stand on a node, range means practically nothing.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why? I cannot comfortably comment on this, as I do not focus, or have a focus on Pve.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why? I feel that, at the current moment in time, Control wizards fit into two different spectrums. Within the pug level, (Non Bis Geared) Control Wizards can easily be seen as Op if played with half a brain. However, at the BiS level, especially in organised premade groups, control wizards fall short. Every other class can easily counter us, excepting SWs and DCs, at this stage. However in saying that, I feel that the rotational capacity that Control Wizards bring to Premades, (By rotational Capacity, I mean the ability to rotate to another node and assist with burning down opposing players), that we are currently well balanced in this role.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon? I would like to see Oppressor become the focus for CC, however, I feel that the new adjusted operation of Chill is overdone within pvp. This negatively affects Oppressors over any other feat line, as it completely negatives their capstone. I would like to See both Thaumaturge and Renegade, provide options for dps, with a difference in Frontloaded burst and backloaded burst.

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each? See above

Are there any feats you would change? How so? I will discuss this further down below, in light of the changes, and some further ideas.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one) An increase in survivability in pvp, and moving away from a focus in damage based procs, that deal my damage for me.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?
In Pve this would mean, control wizards would once again need to think about their rotations in order to maximise control and dps opportunities.

In Pvp, This will again, see the return of a skillful based rotation in pvp, Will return the fun.

Why is this change at the top of your list? Because having fun and feeling a sense of accomplishment means more to man than being number 1

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be? Too many bugs to count. I will let others chime in on this one.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How? See below.

How would this change affect PvE and PvP? See below.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like? Spellstorm, I feel is the burst based paragon, with MoF offering a sustained alternative. In this sense, I believe they function well.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of? I would like to see a wider gear variation available. It is widely known that the BiS pve gear option has been High Vizier for the last twelve months. At least in PvP with the introduction of the black ice sets, and tenacity, the options within this have changed.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.) I love the wizard hat. And without it I would not feel like a true wizard

The below section will look at Feats, and passives,

Renegade: Chaos Magic: Fury - Now grants 30% damage and 10% Life Steal (up from 10% and 5% respectively).
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Nexus - Now grants 30% Armor Penetration and 30% Critical Chance (up from 10%).
Renegade: Chaos Magic: Growth - Now heals every .5 seconds for 250% of your weapon damage (up from 200% every second).

I really like the idea of this change, I feel that it will bring to renegades what they are currently missing, however, I worry about the efficiency of Double procs with this. Potentially having an additional 30% crit and 30% damage at the same time could potentially cause a lot of problems. I understand that the likelihood of this happening is rare, and the overlap between the two rather small, but imagine how an Ice Knife crit would benefit from this. Overall though, I feel that this is a move in the right direction.

Renegade: Masterful Arcane Theft: Damage bonus increased to 3/6/9/12/15% on targets affected by Chill (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) and 1.2/2.4/3.6/4.8/6% per stack of Arcane Mastery (up from .6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3%).

This is another great decision.

Renegade: Chilling Advantage: Chilling Presence increases Critical Chance by 2/4/6/8/10% (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).

At this stage in time, I don't think that anyone is electing to slot Chilling Presence, This is due to a number of reasons (mainly that in their current state, Eots and Storm Spell are much to good to give up). With the proposed changes to Storm Spell, it is still competitive, however at the same time, the burst potential the Eots offers is too big.

Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.

I understand that this needs to be toned down, however, I feel that this is a move in the wrong direction. I would rather see the proc chance reduced, but see it still able to proc off all abilities, crits or non crits.

Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.

In its current state, this destroys the capstone. With a 5 second ICD, and the additional changes proposed from its inception, it will no longer be worth while putting a feat point into this capstone. Whilst I am interested in seeing the reliance on Procs go down, I would rather see Assailing force be changed to something like the following: Increases damage by 30% to opponents who are under 50% hp. Or a capstone that still promotes a damage increase to spec for.

Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.

I dislike this change, wizards who slot Orb are already losing out on Damage potential, and now this 'adjustment' will bring orb back into line with where it was pre mod 4, and not only this, but force those who want to use the passive to spec into oppressor to make it worthwhile slotting.

Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.

Apart from forcing a players to spec for this if they want to utilise Orb, I feel that this makes an already attractive feat selection (to improve Ray of Frost) that much better for Oppressors who spec for control.

Additional comments:

Currently, Eye of the Storm, is practically a must slot for all Spellstorm Wizards, in Pve and PvP. This is due to the fact that it provides the biggest option for burst capability.

What I propose instead is thus:

Eye of the Storm: Increases Critcal chance by 5/10/15% (5% per rank), which still offers a sensational boost to Cws accross the board that spec for this. Then, increase this chance for Renegades as well: Allow them to increase this chance by a further 7.5% (providing a total bonus of 22.5% to critical chance). Overall this would provide a greater benefit to Renegades and wizards as a while. compared to the sustained burst potential it currently provides, whilst not being inherently broken.

Apologies for poor layout, posting this from my Ipad, and hating the editing functions to suit. (My stupid fat fingers)

ghoulz66 · October 2014

The DEVs should have just been safe and cut spell storm damage by half to see how it works. Depending on crits makes it almost uselessly dependent on EotS.

It currently functions very well and reliable. The damage should have been lowered first before any rash alterations.

jeffro9000 · October 2014

What changes did you like and think were on track? What do you like most about the CW class?

The shield buff made it viable again; this was a good change. Apen working correctly is great and made cw's reconsider gear choices/stat allocations. Fixing the enchants to stick on your orb instead of floating around your butt was the greatest change of all!

Which changes fell short or were unnecessary? Of these, what would you do to improve them?

Wtf stormspell? I think most cw players thought this when we saw the final mod 4 changes. I have no idea what to think about stormspell in the current Tiamat build, but it looks on paper like it has gone from ridiculously overpowered to near useless. An obvious fix would be to simply return stormspell to its mod 3 state.

Shard took too big of a nerf. I would give shard damage back on tab and keep it as it is in mod 4 off tab. In pvp shard on tab requires careful execution which it would reward with damage. In pve a significant increase to shard damage on tab would make it a viable spell mastery option.

Renegade changes QQ! Thanks devs for taking time to look at this tree. Nightmare wizardry was so good before, and is so bad now. Somewhere in between would be good. Tier 2 paragon feats for the renegade both suck. This means renegades basically lose 5 feat points to get to tier 3+ renegade. This is a huge contributor to renegade being the lowest performing cw spec since a thaum or oppressor build makes more efficient use of skill points. The devs stated that they felt "magic missile was the best choice in all situations" and ended up rendering it the worst choice in all situations. I rarely used magic missile before mod 4, and I sure don't use it now. For an at will that offers no control and little chance of proccing effects compared to ray of frost/chilling cloud it needs its base damage increased. Maybe tie this to a tier 2 feat in renegade since they suck so bad at the moment.

In what direction would you like to see the CW class go?

I have always wanted to be a controller. Go figure, right? In pve I want to add survivability and utility to my group. In pvp I want to drag my opponents into the deep water where strategy, timing, knowledge, and experience pay off over a longer fight.

1) Do you think the Devs succeeded in their goals for CWs in M4?

No.

2) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvE with respect to other classes? Why?

No. With the occasional exception of a warlock, cw's easily double, triple, or quadruple the damage output of other classes. Wizards accomplish this while offering much needed control as well, which still makes them the most desirable class in pve in almost all situations.

3) Do you feel as though CWs are balanced in PvP with respect to other classes? Why?

Hard to answer for me. I have done very little pvp in mod 4 because I think glyphs, stormspell, knight's valor, piercing blade, etc. have made pvp ridiculous. I got my dominion champ title in mod 3 (engage hipster shades) and I miss the more skill based, defensive meta of mod 3. I understand people felt cw's were free kills in mod 3, but dang man, it was so much more fun to play! Oh, and mod 4 stormspell op.

4) How can the three feat paths (Oppressor | Thaumaturge | Renegade) be further improved upon?

Assailing feels like a band aid fix for adding damage to thaum. Make it interesting and skill based in some way. Otherwise I think thaum is great.

Oppressor suffers too much from the chill immune thing that was added shortly after mod 4 release. If it weren't for this one drawback oppressor would be awesome also.

Renegade QQ! I already kinda talked about this above. The devs seem to be paying attention to feedback on this, so fingers crossed!

What playstyle do you want to use or see in each?

Oppressor, control and chill based powers. Thaum, dps/debuff and less control. Renegade, having fun with the weird procs and focus on arcane spell damage over cold spells.

Are there any feats you would change? How so?

Oppressor and Renegade tier 2 feats are all mediocre at best. I would increase their utility but not their damage effects.

5) If you could have one constructive change to CWs, what would it be? (feel free to post more than one)

Return stormspell to its mod 3 incarnation and give shard on tab its damage back (adjusting it slightly for the apen fix).

How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

In pve stormspell would still be good, but not ridiculous. The same would go for pvp. With shard damage on tab it would be a choice for spell mastery in pve while requiring a lot more skill than the passive damage currently coming from stormspell. Also the long cooldown on shard would place value on the pvp set bonus/recovery for players that used shard on tab in pve or pvp.

Why is this change at the top of your list?

Feeling your skill as a player improve and pay off in pve or pvp along with gear/character progression is rewarding. The changes to stormspell and shard made many veteran players feel like their actual skill at playing the game was secondary to gear/spec. Also, shard was fun! I like to have fun.

6) If you could have three bugs fixed from this list, what would they be?

Rimefire: Damage is delayed until the end of the effect that created it (ie. CoI).
Let's give them MoF's a fair chance at viability!

Ray of Enfeeblement: Casting RoE a second time cancels the damage of the first cast.

Arcane Singularity: Enemies affected by AS are immune to damage from Sudden storm, Shard of Endless Avalanche, and Oppressive force.

7) Are there any powers (at-will, encounter, passive, daily) that you would change? How? How would this change affect PvE and PvP?

Increase the target cap on singularity again. This would make no difference in pvp. In pve the solution to a nerfed sing is to take even more cw's for control. That is not to mention that sing is not even used anymore since op force is godlike. This hurts the dps of gw's, rogues, warlocks, etc. because they improve their damage on grouped targets dramatically, but I am blowing mobs across the map like dandelion seeds anyway because it is still the best option.

8) Are the Spellstorm and Master of Flame paragons offering what you would like?

MoF is lacking. More fire, more dps plz. Spellstorm is obviously great.

9) Are you happy with the gear selection for CWs? What would you like to see less/more of?

CW is one of the best classes for gear options in my opinion, I actually have no complaints here.

10) What other comments do you have on CWs? (aesthetics, animations, etc.)

CW hats are butt ugly.

deepflight007 · October 2014

magiquepurse wrote: »

Ezra, I know you're just the advocate for M4, but it's still your job as a CW to try to prevent the catastrophic Preview changes. There's no need to explain how killing Storm Spell will destroy the class completely in PvP since we cannot compensate from anywhere else, while other classes have the ability to ONE SHOT, as I am sure you witnessed on your own CW already.

Time to work your magic and try to do something that will keep CW semi-relevant.

Good luck.

I do agree.

I tried to put some arguments here http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?773431-Official-Feedback-Thread-Other-Balance-Changes&p=9327641&viewfull=1#post9327641 on the "Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes" but not sure it is even read/considered by Devs and so, I would like to push for final tuning before Mod5 is going live.

Thanks Ezra as our CW Class Advocate if you can help here

pointsman · November 2014

Ezra, please relate the following feedback to the devs as it concerns the changes to CWs for Mod 5. All of this has been posted on the preview forum, not just by me but by other PVE CW's.

- For CW: Renegade: Please consider changing the Chilling Advantage feat so that it does not require the Chilling Presence class feature, very few CWs will choose Chilling Presence class feature when there are many other good choices even with this feat, so a buff to the Chilling Advantage feat will be wasted.

- For CW, please fix the Renegade Tier 2 feats so that they both don't suck.

- Also there is some controversy about the percentage chance for each part of the CW Renegade capstone, Chaotic Fury/Nexus/Growth. They don't seem to activate with equal chances. Is this working as intended?

- Also, in general, when it comes to CW class features, there is very little reason for SS CWs to pick anything other than Storm Spell/Eye of the Storm, or for MoF CWs to pick anything other than Critical Conflagration/Swath of Destruction. I don't think anyone wants these nerfed, but it would be good to make the other passives more attractive, especially since Orb of Imposition is getting nerfed for everyone except Oppressors.

Thank you!

vedran541 · November 2014

Hey Ezra gratz on this. Im sure you will do a great job. But CW needs saving. Right now we are underdogs on preview, by FAR!

jayrad8 · November 2014

Hey CW Community,

Thank you for all the feedback you have posted in this thread and elsewhere on the forums!

I wanted to drop in with a quick update concerning when we will likely see more CW changes.

gentlemancrush wrote:

Wizards are getting less attention this Module because we need to focus on the Rogue and Cleric changes, but that makes your reports all the more important as it will let us pick and choose some high priority things to address.

gentlemancrush wrote:

I have definitely received your reports. As far as actioning them we have to find time to make changes balanced with future content/current higher priority issues. At this time I cannot discuss what the schedule for making changes looks like.

Basically, all I can stress is that we stay patient while TRs and DCs have their time in the sun. I've included everything in my reports -- things ranging from feedback on ugly robes and walk animations to hot topics such as Rene changes, Storm Spell, target caps, and the like. Several of my reports have been 3 PMs long (PMs are 5000 characters) so the Devs have a lot of information to work with, it's just a matter of when they are able to devote resources and which items they identify as high priority.

One thing that I have noticed in gathering feedback is that while some players do a great job of being constructive, a majority are not. To clarify, there is a big difference between saying "make Arcane Presence competitive with EotS and Storm Spell" and "rework Arcane Presence to X so that it may be a relevant selection." The former includes *what* is wrong with Arcane Presence and the latter goes further in addressing *what* is wrong and *how* to fix it. I include things in my reports whether they are constructive or not, but it seems as though feedback has been dying down throughout the weeks in general.

My past reports have included a lot of *what* and not enough *how*, in my opinion, so I will be making efforts to transition them into being more constructive. I have been working closely with Chem, our esteemed MoF expert, this past week on a comprehensive list of reworks targeted at addressing all of the concerns, both PvE and PvP, that I have seen thus far. My aim is to have you all vote on which ones you like, inspire your creativity to post your own, and then forward them in my report. It is a work in progress, but stay tuned for that thread to be posted.

Thanks again for your involvement and feedback!

Take Care

kozi001 · November 2014

vedran541 wrote: »

Hey Ezra gratz on this. Im sure you will do a great job. But CW needs saving. Right now we are underdogs on preview, by FAR!

What do you mean? Pvp?

Class Advocacy Thread: M4 CW Feedback

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