I find it galling that their are people here going on and on about how easy this dungeon is supposed to be even though it's obvious that damage-wise everything was toned down to manageable levels. The molten lava actually doesn't hit as hard as the flames from the eSoT last boss, for example, which is just ridiculous. Molten metal/lava versus grass fire, see?
If Lostmauth actually scaled well he would be even more dangerous than the eSoT last boss.
Which is why some people are focusing on the stuff that matters, like the mechanics of the fight. The whole point here is that Cryptic is actually making its first steps towards creating dungeons that can potentially be fun, challenging and amazing in the long term. The devs actually did a great job with this one. They got the content right, and now they can simply edit that content and change damage values if people wanted them to (oddly enough, none of the people claiming that eLoL is too easy is suggesting this).
It might also be worth pointing out that people going on and on about their subjective experiences in posts with little objective content and almost no consideration for various pros and cons and relevant what-if scenarios is the reason why some of the most horrible changes in the game were made.
Or did you forget how we ended up with the current TR class. Or the current CW class, for that matter.
Oh. And all the bragging would be *so* much more effective if the rest of us didn't already know CW players so good at what they do that they could solo non-MC/VT dungeons. With handicaps. There are others who excel at other classes.
Did you really expect people who actually had the foresight to look beyond the relatively "tame" state of eLoL damage-wise to be impressed that you accomplished something so trivial?
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Short is good for dungeons. Some people, like me, have difficulties finding a time span of more than 20 mins without huge risks of real life interruption.
Go do heroic encounters. There are lots of them. Go do dailies. Cryptic also has a fascination of making lots and lots of dailies the past 4 modules.
Not everything should be geared towards pure casual mindless activities in an MMO.
There should be some difficult content that might be longer but will also reward accordingly.
Balanced diet is key.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Not everything should be geared towards pure casual mindless activities in an MMO.
But that's just the thing. MMO's these days are catering to the casual players because it keeps the game active.
I enjoy both the new dungeon and the skirmish. I generally run eLoL with guild while I always pug normal SoT (don't bother with epic version). With a GF in the group eLoL is much easier to manage and without it I find it more challenging. And IMO it's just stupid not to tank the one scorpion (lefty) to the one side while the other one is dealt with. The fight is just too messy if both are taken on at the same time. Our GS for the group normally ranges from 13-17k.
I like that LoL is not add-heavy. It's a step in the right direction. Lostmauth should be harder than Garakas though. Saying that I have seen a 17k HR and then a 19k GWF pretty much solo (from 70ish% HP) Garakas on epic. He does hit harder though. And the mobs in the Ambush can be brutal at times too. If all the mobs in the skirmish hit like that SoT would be way harder than LoL.
On a side note: I think it would have been hilarious if the guy with the dragon mask (I forget his name) talking to Lostmauth also had one horn missing to mimic the dragon XD
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
LOL was a LOL for me i thought it was the best designed dungeon I have played here and in most mmos. To think it came out of cryptic means either they had half ***** it the whole time or they stepped up their game to the level you should expect from an A+ grade company. If there was more puzzle like content I would have puked up my potions and my head would have exploded then I would have been down 5 injury kits.
But that's just the thing. MMO's these days are catering to the casual players because it keeps the game active.
So what? Neverwinter has been catering to casuals the past 4 modules. They have TONS of casual content from heroic encounters to dailies.
I'm saying diversify their content a little bit and offer a some challenge to the hardcore players. Right now if you are a hardcore player, there is nothing worth doing in the game. There is nothing rewarding or challenging enough for you.
Instead of making their 100th daily mission or making their 100th heroic encounter, don't you think some of their resources might be better to cater to a different audience to keep players from leaving and guilds from dying?
To all the naysayers about the dungeon, it was adjusted by the active players on preview during testing. As I was one of them let me state for the record in its original incarnation it was almost impossible but that was also due to a severe lack of a variety of classes to work with. The devs made adjustments based on our feedback however skewed our group make up were.
Now here are the questions to all complaining about how easy it is...
Where were you during the actual player testing?
What is your current GS and groups GS?
Have you actually ran the dungeon near the recommended GS? ( We did and it is no walk in the park.)
What group make-up are you using?
These and other factors determine how difficult it is.
As comparing to other dungeons, IMO there is no comparison. Yes it is short...that is what people asked for. Trust me the boss was near impossible even with rank 10 enchants and all perfects, at first. Everything hit so much harder. For example getting knocked in the lava was almost certain death. ( the knockback was much further)
But to get back on topic and to the OP ....KUDOS once again, don't let others bring you down.
LOL is a very epic dungeon and I absolutely love it as well.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
... Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
I know im late but Finally I yelled with happiness. I never thought in all my life I would fight a boss in this way... The FIRST real bossfight from Cryptic, All 3 of them bosses. The thing is I was waiting for the adds to come as usual in a bossfight in NW but they didnt and I enjoyed the fact that they finally knew how to make a bossfight this time! GREAT Thanks To You Guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:o
I agree, Lostmouth, was very refreshing...and action pact... I for one love it... its actually very nice change of the usual boring loooooooong Dungeon that every MMO does with just a little *Chance of reward* at least this one is not that long even if you dont get the drop you want its not as painful as CN,MC and the like... I recently return to Neverwinter and I have like most of the changes...and I love this whole Dragon Crisis happening...The new Race of Dragonborn was a nice Touch, but was a little disappointed that there was no Freebie dragon race... I was really hoping for a Draconian or better yet a Half-Dragon race appearance...
The *Warlock* class was a bit of a surprise as I thought sorcerer and its Paragon Path the Dragon Disciple would have fit this...But I'm getting the feeling we may yet see a Big Twist to this story...after Tiamats defeat, Belial seems to be in the shadows helping...Who knows if might well encounter a DISCIPLE OF ASHARDALON dragon (Disciples of Ashardalon bind fiendish spirits to their own hearts, eventually taking on the characteristics of demonic spawn themselves.) or a HELLFIRE WYRMS (Hellfire wyrm, are dragons sponsored by the hells to influence events on the material plane.)in this adventure, after all, Tiamat "was" Trap in the Hells (or was it in the Abyss, cant remember)... Anyway....OOOOOoooo canyou imagine a dragon SPiting out Hellfire or even Plague fire, now THAT would be an awsome Boss fight or Heroic Encounter!!! Cant wait to see what Crytic does next with this exiting dragon demonic mix Module! Anyway all and all great job Neverwinter TEAM!
So what? Neverwinter has been catering to casuals the past 4 modules. They have TONS of casual content from heroic encounters to dailies.
I'm saying diversify their content a little bit and offer a some challenge to the hardcore players. Right now if you are a hardcore player, there is nothing worth doing in the game. There is nothing rewarding or challenging enough for you.
Instead of making their 100th daily mission or making their 100th heroic encounter, don't you think some of their resources might be better to cater to a different audience to keep players from leaving and guilds from dying?
I bet cryptic would chose make the 101th 'x' casual content instead of 100 and 1 little harder one.
I bet cryptic would chose make the 101th 'x' casual content instead of 100 and 1 little harder one.
Agreed. Times have change and all Gaming companies know that most of the REAL cash comes from casuals, NOT from hardcore... as its statistically proven that most hardcore players just burn content, almost never spend a dime in anygame (unless they are real fans of it and still...doubtful as they play so much) and are gone...casual cant play as much (you know, work, collage, family, grow up, have a life?) and as such are the usually the ones that are the majority of the MMO population... Hardcore players are essential (they teach the casual most of the coolest stuff in the game)but in long terms and money wise its the casual the companies want to make the most happy and keep around as they usually are willing to pay for their *commodities* to enrich their experience. :rolleyes:
As "Casual" content as it has been accused of being it hits the mark. You never fail the dungeon, but at the same time you can die which means you can't fall asleep. It keeps you froggy and paying attention.
I think for a while there, the casual content was both "never fail" and "never die" which is just a snore fest of a "game". game in quotation mark because when you can "never fail" and "never die" and you have a random loot system, the game design of "insert time get a random chance at something" gets emphasized, or as I call it with my friends: "gambling with your free time", and it isn't a very interesting game.
Short is good for dungeons. Some people, like me, have difficulties finding a time span of more than 20 mins without huge risks of real life interruption.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Short is good, hard is good too. You dont need long to = hard per se.
LoL for NW is a fun dungeon. Here is the true problem, this game by not really needed a tank, nor a healer, is limited in what they can dole out.
Also since the game is a couple years in, reversing course at this point is a bit late. They just cant do the normal mmo mechanics, also lets take for example a typical tuesday night, your not finding many GFs in the legit channel to even run it, even if you wanted to run it.
Last two runs on my CW , I saw 3 dc/1 gwf and my cw, then next group 3 cws /2 gwfs. A gwf really isnt a tank like IVe seen in other mmos and my CW can kite the scorpians as well or better, since I dont have to engage in melee range.
I haven't unlocked it with my other classes yet, as I HATE doing the dailies to unlock it, slowly getting there.
BTW if you are going to have a truly epic dungeon that lasts over 30 mins at a time , that makes you do a rainbow party to do it, THEN by all means release it, but there BETTER be a reason to actually release it, as in IF you run it, you will get something in return to run it.
Frankly there is almost no reason to run anything anymore. In other games, you run a really hard DD, and everyone was guaranteed to get something.
The rng <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is beyond reason and its really destroying the core principal of any MMO.. IE you get groups together to run stuff for fun and loot. Every other mmo Ive run either the hard group content or the raid content, EVERY run dropped at least a seal you needed to progress, and or a valuable item. Maybe the very best items were rng, but they dropped in almost every run, it was just a 1 out of 20 roll or whatever to get it, or you joined guilds to get points for running and your turn would come up, so it was reasonable rng.
Thats kind of why we have skirmishes.
~~~
Anyway I said before, it'd be a better dungeon if it was longer, tougher, the traps felt like a threat instead of purely making you feel like a ping pong ball and actually rewarding (which is the most important factor for me). Doesn't really matter how well a dungeon is designed if there's no point in doing it. Right now I'm bored with nothing to do except for the boring dailies since that's really the only progress I make.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
Agreed. Times have change and all Gaming companies know that most of the REAL cash comes from casuals, NOT from hardcore... as its statistically proven that most hardcore players just burn content, almost never spend a dime in anygame
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I'm sorry, but that's not true. Statistics show quite the opposite, the big spenders, the so called "whales", are actually the hardcore players, and they are the ones supporting the F2P market. 80%+, by some researches 90%, of the games income is from the purchases made by the top 10% of the players. BUT, hardcore players will sooner or later leave the game, if there are no casuals, if they have nobody to brag to about their new high-end stuff, if they have nobody to roflstomp in pvp, etc, you get the idea.
That's why games try to cater to the casual players too, because without them, there will be no, or close to none, spending hardcore-players. But, if you're too focused on content for casuals, you'll also loose the hard-core players, because they get bored, and go lay something else. A game needs to have content for both the casuals and the hard-core, esp a F2P game, to be successful, and they need to be in balance, since to much hard-core content, and the casuals whine and leave, if you have to much casual content, the hard-core players do the same.
On release Neverwinter had just the right balance of content for both categories. Casuals had skirmishes, T1, PK, FC, while even the most hard-core players who had already finished everything in the game by the time a casual haven't even got a full set of blues, had CN. Now we're at the point when a hard-core player has nothing to do, since thx to the decision made by PWE/Cryptic to introduce a lot of OP items, every content is trivial. Only the top 1% at most should be able to solo dungeons, not players with 16k-17k, and doing dungeons with a full team at min gs should require multiple tries. Having the min recommended GS should mean that you can enter, and kill the first boss, anything more than that would require some serious skills. Clearing the dungeons should not be possible unless you have 10%-20% more GS than the minimum required to enter.
Google EEDAR's study on whales if you want proof, but that's not the only study about spending players and F2P games in general. A quick excerpt from the study: whales spend 3x more time playing games than the average player, about 24% of their waking time.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Thats kind of why we have skirmishes.
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Anyway I said before, it'd be a better dungeon if it was longer, tougher, the traps felt like a threat instead of purely making you feel like a ping pong ball and actually rewarding (which is the most important factor for me). Doesn't really matter how well a dungeon is designed if there's no point in doing it. Right now I'm bored with nothing to do except for the boring dailies since that's really the only progress I make.
Exactly.. 3 common cause papers is worth more then running either dungeon.. go figure.
There are some ok rings and junk, but most of them have wacky stats and you just have to adjust some other stuff to increase 20-30 stat points or something.
I hate the dailies as much as anyone... I cant get myself to do them on a regular basis. The game has too much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in it and they need to ADD the daily rewards to the skirm and the dds, at least there would be a reason to run them and would make most of us happy again.
It seems to me that this argument really is more about players' expectations about the dungeon rather than the dungeon itself.
If you were expecting a new, unique dungeon that offered some challenges but not overwhelmingly impossible challenges, then I think this dungeon is great.
If you were expecting some LOLWTFBBQ type dungeon, then yeah I suppose the dungeon is a fail.
But the dungeon itself is actually quite good I think. It is challenging for the unprepared party, it isn't a roflstomp by any means unless you already have 20k+, it's not this incredibly LONG dungeon that is this huge time commitment (maybe 20 minutes is too short, but 2 hours would be definitely too long), and I think the new gear that drops in this module is at least an interesting complement to the existing gear, providing direct party buffs that don't rely on proc chances or anything like that.
Exactly.. 3 common cause papers is worth more then running either dungeon.. go figure.
There are some ok rings and junk, but most of them have wacky stats and you just have to adjust some other stuff to increase 20-30 stat points or something.
I hate the dailies as much as anyone... I cant get myself to do them on a regular basis. The game has too much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in it and they need to ADD the daily rewards to the skirm and the dds, at least there would be a reason to run them and would make most of us happy again.
The jewellery doesn't really bother me, they still have better stats and can be useful. But when they're bound what else can I do when I have them. I can't sell them on the AH so I can only salvage them which rough AD can easily overflow. There's also dragon gems for less than 100k which isn't so good for a rare drop. And then there's the boon tomes and artifact belt that are stuff of legends. I'm hardly going to farm something for so long with little to no reward on the very rare chance that I'll actually get one.
Dailies I've had to skip most of my toons since it's too much but sitll managed 2 characters. But I do them because there's nothing else and because I kind of have to in order to progress. Not because I want to, which is what games are about. I should want to play the content like I did last year.
I hated MC as soon as it came out being getting blue drops was not my idea of fun. Not because of the dungeon itself, but because it didn't feel rewarding.
Agreed. Times have change and all Gaming companies know that most of the REAL cash comes from casuals, NOT from hardcore... as its statistically proven that most hardcore players just burn content, almost never spend a dime in anygame (unless they are real fans of it and still...doubtful as they play so much) and are gone...casual cant play as much (you know, work, collage, family, grow up, have a life?) and as such are the usually the ones that are the majority of the MMO population... Hardcore players are essential (they teach the casual most of the coolest stuff in the game)but in long terms and money wise its the casual the companies want to make the most happy and keep around as they usually are willing to pay for their *commodities* to enrich their experience. :rolleyes:
All of these baseless statements. The most successful kickstarter game ever is a game that promised to be hardcore/skilled based. They raised so far almost 60M, which is more money than neverwinter will ever make, and they're making a profit while they only have some bits of gameplay in alpha stage. It's still growing and expectations varies between 80 and 100M USD at launch.
So cash comes from casuals... Wrong. I bet you have never met the kind of player who spend 1, 2k USD on this game. They're all hardcore, most of them are pvp fans (but not all of them), and most of them are also excellent players with very high gaming skills. The casual is the guy having a 12k character, one character, he logs on Friday evening, and you don't see hi again for another week. That's not the kind of guy you make profits with.
IMO current epic should be normal and the supposedly "impossible" dungeon they had on preview for testing the real epic versions. Right now both versions are "super casual" and "casual". There's nothing for good players, which defeats the purpose of having two versions, a normal and an epic one. No one here is saying this is a failure because there's a casual version of LOL. We're merely saying that epic shouldn't be designed for casuals.
IMO current epic should be normal and the supposedly "impossible" dungeon they had on preview for testing the real epic versions. Right now both versions are "super casual" and "casual". There's nothing for good players, which defeats the purpose of having two versions, a normal and an epic one. No one here is saying this is a failure because there's a casual version of LOL. We're merely saying that epic shouldn't be designed for casuals.
I would not call epic Lostmauth "casual". I've been in groups that really struggled with the scorpions and could not finish the last boss. I would not call that "casual".
So cash comes from casuals... Wrong. I bet you have never met the kind of player who spend 1, 2k USD on this game. They're all hardcore, most of them are pvp fans (but not all of them), and most of them are also excellent players with very high gaming skills. The casual is the guy having a 12k character, one character, he logs on Friday evening, and you don't see hi again for another week. That's not the kind of guy you make profits with.
I have to say it is kind of funny that you talk about someone else's "baseless statements" and make such a completely baseless statement yourself regarding casual players (like myself). I play about 12-15 hours a week. I have a level 60 of every current class, with most of their GSs around 12k, but have a main with a 14.4k GS. I play 1-2 hours each day, not just one day a week.
Your second statement about where the money comes from is purely hypothetical. You have no financial information from Cryptic to back up these claims. As a matter of fact, a poll was done on the forums that shows that less than 40% play PvP here, and the "pure" PvP players represent a much lower percentage than that.
You are entitled to your opinions, but it is very bad form to slam someone else's opinions and then write your own opinions as supposed facts. Your statements are no more important (or factual) than the other poster.
To be honest, I think the other guy's opinions are more valid than yours, based on my own experiences with MMOs over the past 20 years.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I pug my first ELoL run, and I didn't even know that was the epic version, tried it with my guildies and it gives true to its name: Epic LOL!
Why not give us the option to remove red circles? it will give the duns a new challenge, guessing attack animations and patterns are really fun and challenging (e.g. Monster Hunter/Dark Souls)
StrawberryCheesecake TR BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] CheeseCake House
I would not call epic Lostmauth "casual". I've been in groups that really struggled with the scorpions and could not finish the last boss. I would not call that "casual".
Epic is very forgiving, you can do a lot of mistakes before being killed if we except the random instakill from rage drakes (and even those can be avoided with practice). The truth is that to do the boss faster I rarely move my character out of red during the boss fight, I just keep casting and deal with the incredibly short and forgiving prone, eat a potion and i'm good to go. If that's not casual design I don't know what casual is. At some point yeah you have to use spells and can't stay in lava if you don't have 1k lifesteal, and the only tricky thing is not being hit by the tail, but if we except that, the amount of challenge is 0. Even frozen heart in "burn the final boss" mode is harder.
And even if you insist on saying that epic isn't casual then normal is by all means. And there's no need for two casual instances. Casuals can have normal ones, skirmishes, enjoy heroic encounters ad nauseum. Epic should be a skill check, at least in the newest content.
1-2 hours a day is casual for sure, for someone who enjoys playing MMOs. Anything much less than 10 hours a week doesn't allow for much meaningful character development.
As a matter of comparison, I used to play another MMO 60+ hours a week. Of course, that was a no-life mode for me. I see the hard-core gamer as someone who plays at least 25 hours a week.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Epic is very forgiving, you can do a lot of mistakes before being killed if we except the random instakill from rage drakes (and even those can be avoided with practice). The truth is that to do the boss faster I rarely move my character out of red during the boss fight, I just keep casting and deal with the incredibly short and forgiving prone, eat a potion and i'm good to go. If that's not casual design I don't know what casual is. At some point yeah you have to use spells and can't stay in lava if you don't have 1k lifesteal, and the only tricky thing is not being hit by the tail, but if we except that, the amount of challenge is 0. Even frozen heart in "burn the final boss" mode is harder.
And even if you insist on saying that epic isn't casual then normal is by all means. And there's no need for two casual instances. Casuals can have normal ones, skirmishes, enjoy heroic encounters ad nauseum. Epic should be a skill check, at least in the newest content.
Your experience is contrary to my experience.
The prones are not all that "incredibly short", and there are a *lot* of potential prones. One or two mistakes leads to a high probability of being chain-proned and death. I can't stand in red even with over 1k lifesteal not because of the damage, but because of the possibility of chain prones.
I've been in groups that had a large amount of difficulty with the final boss, including one or two that just couldn't complete it. And every time it was the chain prones that got them.
The prones are not all that "incredibly short", and there are a *lot* of potential prones. One or two mistakes leads to a high probability of being chain-proned and death. I can't stand in red even with over 1k lifesteal not because of the damage, but because of the possibility of chain prones.
I've been in groups that had a large amount of difficulty with the final boss, including one or two that just couldn't complete it. And every time it was the chain prones that got them.
Getting chain proned is impossible unless you're staying absolutely static and wait for fireballs to start the said chain. I'm not even talking about dodging, i'm merely talking about a few steps.
Maybe you've found the remaining guys with 13k GS and 1k def that's entirely possible but then it's not even casual it's a complete fail build made consciously. You can't have 13k without having enough tanking stats unless you're specifically looking for that. Which is quite diabolic.
The only class that might have issues with prones is clerics because their self healing isn't that great and they can get a lot of attention from the dragon while having to take care of others mindlessly dps-ing the big thing at the center of the screen but that's it.
If the boss had slightly different mechanics - let's say adds in waves of 4 rage drakes (one for each char minus one) and 10 assassin drakes then it would be an entirely different story but it's just a giant piece of meat with annoying bouncing as it is.
Comments
If Lostmauth actually scaled well he would be even more dangerous than the eSoT last boss.
Which is why some people are focusing on the stuff that matters, like the mechanics of the fight. The whole point here is that Cryptic is actually making its first steps towards creating dungeons that can potentially be fun, challenging and amazing in the long term. The devs actually did a great job with this one. They got the content right, and now they can simply edit that content and change damage values if people wanted them to (oddly enough, none of the people claiming that eLoL is too easy is suggesting this).
It might also be worth pointing out that people going on and on about their subjective experiences in posts with little objective content and almost no consideration for various pros and cons and relevant what-if scenarios is the reason why some of the most horrible changes in the game were made.
Or did you forget how we ended up with the current TR class. Or the current CW class, for that matter.
Oh. And all the bragging would be *so* much more effective if the rest of us didn't already know CW players so good at what they do that they could solo non-MC/VT dungeons. With handicaps. There are others who excel at other classes.
Did you really expect people who actually had the foresight to look beyond the relatively "tame" state of eLoL damage-wise to be impressed that you accomplished something so trivial?
Go do heroic encounters. There are lots of them. Go do dailies. Cryptic also has a fascination of making lots and lots of dailies the past 4 modules.
Not everything should be geared towards pure casual mindless activities in an MMO.
There should be some difficult content that might be longer but will also reward accordingly.
Balanced diet is key.
But that's just the thing. MMO's these days are catering to the casual players because it keeps the game active.
I enjoy both the new dungeon and the skirmish. I generally run eLoL with guild while I always pug normal SoT (don't bother with epic version). With a GF in the group eLoL is much easier to manage and without it I find it more challenging. And IMO it's just stupid not to tank the one scorpion (lefty) to the one side while the other one is dealt with. The fight is just too messy if both are taken on at the same time. Our GS for the group normally ranges from 13-17k.
I like that LoL is not add-heavy. It's a step in the right direction. Lostmauth should be harder than Garakas though. Saying that I have seen a 17k HR and then a 19k GWF pretty much solo (from 70ish% HP) Garakas on epic. He does hit harder though. And the mobs in the Ambush can be brutal at times too. If all the mobs in the skirmish hit like that SoT would be way harder than LoL.
On a side note: I think it would have been hilarious if the guy with the dragon mask (I forget his name) talking to Lostmauth also had one horn missing to mimic the dragon XD
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
So what? Neverwinter has been catering to casuals the past 4 modules. They have TONS of casual content from heroic encounters to dailies.
I'm saying diversify their content a little bit and offer a some challenge to the hardcore players. Right now if you are a hardcore player, there is nothing worth doing in the game. There is nothing rewarding or challenging enough for you.
Instead of making their 100th daily mission or making their 100th heroic encounter, don't you think some of their resources might be better to cater to a different audience to keep players from leaving and guilds from dying?
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Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
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I agree, Lostmouth, was very refreshing...and action pact... I for one love it... its actually very nice change of the usual boring loooooooong Dungeon that every MMO does with just a little *Chance of reward* at least this one is not that long even if you dont get the drop you want its not as painful as CN,MC and the like... I recently return to Neverwinter and I have like most of the changes...and I love this whole Dragon Crisis happening...The new Race of Dragonborn was a nice Touch, but was a little disappointed that there was no Freebie dragon race... I was really hoping for a Draconian or better yet a Half-Dragon race appearance...
The *Warlock* class was a bit of a surprise as I thought sorcerer and its Paragon Path the Dragon Disciple would have fit this...But I'm getting the feeling we may yet see a Big Twist to this story...after Tiamats defeat, Belial seems to be in the shadows helping...Who knows if might well encounter a DISCIPLE OF ASHARDALON dragon (Disciples of Ashardalon bind fiendish spirits to their own hearts, eventually taking on the characteristics of demonic spawn themselves.) or a HELLFIRE WYRMS (Hellfire wyrm, are dragons sponsored by the hells to influence events on the material plane.)in this adventure, after all, Tiamat "was" Trap in the Hells (or was it in the Abyss, cant remember
Thumbs up for this dungeon as well.
军医骑士 超过三千水平 突破极限释放开
Daily: Granworm Sword
Enounter: Vow of Enmity | Worm Smasher | 縮退砲
Class Feature: Kabbalah System
Aura: Warp Field
IGN: Faluzure 19k Tenebrous Soulbinder Scourge Warlock
(The Corrupted) (Retired)
I bet cryptic would chose make the 101th 'x' casual content instead of 100 and 1 little harder one.
SO yeah Bring more stuff like this!
I think for a while there, the casual content was both "never fail" and "never die" which is just a snore fest of a "game". game in quotation mark because when you can "never fail" and "never die" and you have a random loot system, the game design of "insert time get a random chance at something" gets emphasized, or as I call it with my friends: "gambling with your free time", and it isn't a very interesting game.
Amen to that!!
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Short is good, hard is good too. You dont need long to = hard per se.
LoL for NW is a fun dungeon. Here is the true problem, this game by not really needed a tank, nor a healer, is limited in what they can dole out.
Also since the game is a couple years in, reversing course at this point is a bit late. They just cant do the normal mmo mechanics, also lets take for example a typical tuesday night, your not finding many GFs in the legit channel to even run it, even if you wanted to run it.
Last two runs on my CW , I saw 3 dc/1 gwf and my cw, then next group 3 cws /2 gwfs. A gwf really isnt a tank like IVe seen in other mmos and my CW can kite the scorpians as well or better, since I dont have to engage in melee range.
I haven't unlocked it with my other classes yet, as I HATE doing the dailies to unlock it, slowly getting there.
BTW if you are going to have a truly epic dungeon that lasts over 30 mins at a time , that makes you do a rainbow party to do it, THEN by all means release it, but there BETTER be a reason to actually release it, as in IF you run it, you will get something in return to run it.
Frankly there is almost no reason to run anything anymore. In other games, you run a really hard DD, and everyone was guaranteed to get something.
The rng <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is beyond reason and its really destroying the core principal of any MMO.. IE you get groups together to run stuff for fun and loot. Every other mmo Ive run either the hard group content or the raid content, EVERY run dropped at least a seal you needed to progress, and or a valuable item. Maybe the very best items were rng, but they dropped in almost every run, it was just a 1 out of 20 roll or whatever to get it, or you joined guilds to get points for running and your turn would come up, so it was reasonable rng.
Thats kind of why we have skirmishes.
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Anyway I said before, it'd be a better dungeon if it was longer, tougher, the traps felt like a threat instead of purely making you feel like a ping pong ball and actually rewarding (which is the most important factor for me). Doesn't really matter how well a dungeon is designed if there's no point in doing it. Right now I'm bored with nothing to do except for the boring dailies since that's really the only progress I make.
I'm sorry, but that's not true. Statistics show quite the opposite, the big spenders, the so called "whales", are actually the hardcore players, and they are the ones supporting the F2P market. 80%+, by some researches 90%, of the games income is from the purchases made by the top 10% of the players. BUT, hardcore players will sooner or later leave the game, if there are no casuals, if they have nobody to brag to about their new high-end stuff, if they have nobody to roflstomp in pvp, etc, you get the idea.
That's why games try to cater to the casual players too, because without them, there will be no, or close to none, spending hardcore-players. But, if you're too focused on content for casuals, you'll also loose the hard-core players, because they get bored, and go lay something else. A game needs to have content for both the casuals and the hard-core, esp a F2P game, to be successful, and they need to be in balance, since to much hard-core content, and the casuals whine and leave, if you have to much casual content, the hard-core players do the same.
On release Neverwinter had just the right balance of content for both categories. Casuals had skirmishes, T1, PK, FC, while even the most hard-core players who had already finished everything in the game by the time a casual haven't even got a full set of blues, had CN. Now we're at the point when a hard-core player has nothing to do, since thx to the decision made by PWE/Cryptic to introduce a lot of OP items, every content is trivial. Only the top 1% at most should be able to solo dungeons, not players with 16k-17k, and doing dungeons with a full team at min gs should require multiple tries. Having the min recommended GS should mean that you can enter, and kill the first boss, anything more than that would require some serious skills. Clearing the dungeons should not be possible unless you have 10%-20% more GS than the minimum required to enter.
Google EEDAR's study on whales if you want proof, but that's not the only study about spending players and F2P games in general. A quick excerpt from the study: whales spend 3x more time playing games than the average player, about 24% of their waking time.
Exactly.. 3 common cause papers is worth more then running either dungeon.. go figure.
There are some ok rings and junk, but most of them have wacky stats and you just have to adjust some other stuff to increase 20-30 stat points or something.
I hate the dailies as much as anyone... I cant get myself to do them on a regular basis. The game has too much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in it and they need to ADD the daily rewards to the skirm and the dds, at least there would be a reason to run them and would make most of us happy again.
If you were expecting a new, unique dungeon that offered some challenges but not overwhelmingly impossible challenges, then I think this dungeon is great.
If you were expecting some LOLWTFBBQ type dungeon, then yeah I suppose the dungeon is a fail.
But the dungeon itself is actually quite good I think. It is challenging for the unprepared party, it isn't a roflstomp by any means unless you already have 20k+, it's not this incredibly LONG dungeon that is this huge time commitment (maybe 20 minutes is too short, but 2 hours would be definitely too long), and I think the new gear that drops in this module is at least an interesting complement to the existing gear, providing direct party buffs that don't rely on proc chances or anything like that.
The jewellery doesn't really bother me, they still have better stats and can be useful. But when they're bound what else can I do when I have them. I can't sell them on the AH so I can only salvage them which rough AD can easily overflow. There's also dragon gems for less than 100k which isn't so good for a rare drop. And then there's the boon tomes and artifact belt that are stuff of legends. I'm hardly going to farm something for so long with little to no reward on the very rare chance that I'll actually get one.
Dailies I've had to skip most of my toons since it's too much but sitll managed 2 characters. But I do them because there's nothing else and because I kind of have to in order to progress. Not because I want to, which is what games are about. I should want to play the content like I did last year.
I hated MC as soon as it came out being getting blue drops was not my idea of fun. Not because of the dungeon itself, but because it didn't feel rewarding.
All of these baseless statements. The most successful kickstarter game ever is a game that promised to be hardcore/skilled based. They raised so far almost 60M, which is more money than neverwinter will ever make, and they're making a profit while they only have some bits of gameplay in alpha stage. It's still growing and expectations varies between 80 and 100M USD at launch.
So cash comes from casuals... Wrong. I bet you have never met the kind of player who spend 1, 2k USD on this game. They're all hardcore, most of them are pvp fans (but not all of them), and most of them are also excellent players with very high gaming skills. The casual is the guy having a 12k character, one character, he logs on Friday evening, and you don't see hi again for another week. That's not the kind of guy you make profits with.
IMO current epic should be normal and the supposedly "impossible" dungeon they had on preview for testing the real epic versions. Right now both versions are "super casual" and "casual". There's nothing for good players, which defeats the purpose of having two versions, a normal and an epic one. No one here is saying this is a failure because there's a casual version of LOL. We're merely saying that epic shouldn't be designed for casuals.
I would not call epic Lostmauth "casual". I've been in groups that really struggled with the scorpions and could not finish the last boss. I would not call that "casual".
I have to say it is kind of funny that you talk about someone else's "baseless statements" and make such a completely baseless statement yourself regarding casual players (like myself). I play about 12-15 hours a week. I have a level 60 of every current class, with most of their GSs around 12k, but have a main with a 14.4k GS. I play 1-2 hours each day, not just one day a week.
Your second statement about where the money comes from is purely hypothetical. You have no financial information from Cryptic to back up these claims. As a matter of fact, a poll was done on the forums that shows that less than 40% play PvP here, and the "pure" PvP players represent a much lower percentage than that.
You are entitled to your opinions, but it is very bad form to slam someone else's opinions and then write your own opinions as supposed facts. Your statements are no more important (or factual) than the other poster.
To be honest, I think the other guy's opinions are more valid than yours, based on my own experiences with MMOs over the past 20 years.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Why not give us the option to remove red circles? it will give the duns a new challenge, guessing attack animations and patterns are really fun and challenging (e.g. Monster Hunter/Dark Souls)
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
Epic is very forgiving, you can do a lot of mistakes before being killed if we except the random instakill from rage drakes (and even those can be avoided with practice). The truth is that to do the boss faster I rarely move my character out of red during the boss fight, I just keep casting and deal with the incredibly short and forgiving prone, eat a potion and i'm good to go. If that's not casual design I don't know what casual is. At some point yeah you have to use spells and can't stay in lava if you don't have 1k lifesteal, and the only tricky thing is not being hit by the tail, but if we except that, the amount of challenge is 0. Even frozen heart in "burn the final boss" mode is harder.
And even if you insist on saying that epic isn't casual then normal is by all means. And there's no need for two casual instances. Casuals can have normal ones, skirmishes, enjoy heroic encounters ad nauseum. Epic should be a skill check, at least in the newest content.
That's nowhere near casual.
1-2 hours a day is casual for sure, for someone who enjoys playing MMOs. Anything much less than 10 hours a week doesn't allow for much meaningful character development.
As a matter of comparison, I used to play another MMO 60+ hours a week. Of course, that was a no-life mode for me. I see the hard-core gamer as someone who plays at least 25 hours a week.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
I've been hardcore 10-15 years ago and there's no comparison : I could sometimes do these 20 hours in a single day ...
Enorla, Oh so devoted cleric.
Your experience is contrary to my experience.
The prones are not all that "incredibly short", and there are a *lot* of potential prones. One or two mistakes leads to a high probability of being chain-proned and death. I can't stand in red even with over 1k lifesteal not because of the damage, but because of the possibility of chain prones.
I've been in groups that had a large amount of difficulty with the final boss, including one or two that just couldn't complete it. And every time it was the chain prones that got them.
Getting chain proned is impossible unless you're staying absolutely static and wait for fireballs to start the said chain. I'm not even talking about dodging, i'm merely talking about a few steps.
Maybe you've found the remaining guys with 13k GS and 1k def that's entirely possible but then it's not even casual it's a complete fail build made consciously. You can't have 13k without having enough tanking stats unless you're specifically looking for that. Which is quite diabolic.
The only class that might have issues with prones is clerics because their self healing isn't that great and they can get a lot of attention from the dragon while having to take care of others mindlessly dps-ing the big thing at the center of the screen but that's it.
If the boss had slightly different mechanics - let's say adds in waves of 4 rage drakes (one for each char minus one) and 10 assassin drakes then it would be an entirely different story but it's just a giant piece of meat with annoying bouncing as it is.