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Poll, the need vs Greed debate
styley177
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 44 Arc User
Since alot of people seem to get hot under the collar about people needing on gear and ninja's / fairness etc, why not just remove that aspect from the game.
Remove greed altogether.
Just have Need (for whatever your own reasons for wanting that bit of kit, ie you actually want to use it, or you need the AD it will generate)
And Pass (if you dont want it)
This way all will get a fair 1/5 or better chance at all drops
Remove greed altogether.
Just have Need (for whatever your own reasons for wanting that bit of kit, ie you actually want to use it, or you need the AD it will generate)
And Pass (if you dont want it)
This way all will get a fair 1/5 or better chance at all drops
Post edited by styley177 on
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Keep it like it is, but make Need bind the item on pickup. Doesn't solve the problem since you can still salvage if it's an epic item, but it at least forces people to consider whether they really need the item, since Needing it forces them to use it or sell it for it's MSRP value in gold or salvage value.
btw, this is a redundant thread, probably should be combined with the existing long one that's active currently.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
How about make the needed item BOP and unsalvageable
I have many alts, I am a class and race rainbow.
Well there is some need to change the system as it is causing a lot of problems within parties.
We just don't see post after post after post of it because a lot of the hardcore players have quit the useless and unrewarding PVE aspect of the game
hardcore players quit pve because they have all the items they need.
the games just not enjoyable when you are at top lvl everything.
come on now how many times can you read the same book and enjoy it? (think of church)
Auto greed (PLEASE).
Roll on items that are BoE (take away the need option entirely).
EXCEPTION: If the item is BoP, then, and only then, could someone NEED on it.
Reminds me of yesterday.... solo Karrundax on CW, get a BOP hardened dragon scale armor for GWF, already have 1.2M RAD. GG.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You know what's the problem? Creating scarcity with maddening RNG instead of difficulty. Players fighting each-other over scarce resources the devs are consciously adding to the cash-shop only. Compare the ratio of blue/green belts on the AH. Take a look at the pets you can earn in-game and compare them to what's in the zen store. Do you see any sense of balance? I don't. That's why people are kicking eachother; it's not the loot system it's the game putting way too much pressure over making ADs to keep up with the crazy amount of power added to the cash shop every month.
Look at module 4: Two brand new kind of artifact gear, costing millions in ADs each to upgrade, a new pet in a zen store pack that's better than most of the previous pets, and we're supposed to do that within 3 months before the next update because the next update will be as power-creep heavy as this one? The underlying issue is just that, too much power creep every module, not enough time to work on our own upgrades, good stuff hidden behind stupidly easy content with horribly low drop rates, and way way too much stuff being cash shop only.
It's an unhealthy atmosphere? Yes sir, it is! But blame the devs, not the players.
This system screws over people who actually need things, who are trying to gear up their characters. If we remove the ability to need on a piece someone actually needs, this benefits only the people who are running for greed purposes. And that is incredibly unfair.
However, I will echo the sentiments that 'need'ing on something should immediately bind it to your character. Not your account, your character. No needing on things saying "I need it for my alt" or "I need it for the AD." Perhaps there could be something that checks the gear score of your current piece to the one being rolled on and determines if you actually need it or not.
This is a lot more complicated than you are presenting this.
The Roll system does need to be changed, BUT they need to at least add a greed run option.
You can't remove GREED altogether as there are BoP items that are class specific. They need to add a GREED run preferably with an option (or make it mandatory) that allows someone to roll NEED if the item is BoP.
Sorry but no one needs more RAD from a salvaged rare BoP items. Those items which can't be sold should be given priority to the classes that can actually use it.
That is no good either. Why on earth would anyone want to run dungeons they don't need if any piece of loot that dropped there became bound as soon as it was picked up.
How is it unfair? Everyone did their job on the dungeon. Everyone gets a 20% chance of winning.
Why should some players lower their chances of getting a loot for some stranger PUG who they probably will not see ever again?
If this is a guild run, then they can say through voice comm to voluntarily pass on certain items
Bonus points for an auto roll setting . Say "Pass on all green equipment" or a check box you can select...
select "Need" box on Rare + Enchants/RP + Potions + Professions.
select "Pass" box on green equip...
So we dont have to shift+1 or shift+2 every item.
The other long thread should be merged wit this one , or add the poll to the other thread.
Would be a good opportunity to get the community's opinion while there are so many active in forums during server downtime.
Maybe I'm just less of a jerk to people I don't know than most of the people playing this game. This, to me, is a very selfish viewpoint. And it forces people to have to join a guild if they actually want a chance to gear up in a timely manner, and the PUG queues take forever in the first place. Yeah, you get a 20% chance of winning - on something you need that maybe has a 10% chance of dropping in the first place. Or you get a 20% chance of winning something you can't even use and are just going to sell, taking it away from someone who actually needed it. That is the essence of greed in my book.
If you don't want to share with people you don't know? Don't PUG. They could implement an all-greed mode for people who agreed to it in advance. That'd be a much better option in my opinion.
Oh come now, you don't *really* need to see all those baddies you're trying to kill before they kill you, do you?
"Must loot all the things...you guys keep on fighting." >.<
This overlooks that you have a reasonable chance of getting the BOP item from THE CHEST AT THE END OF THE DUNGEON.
Even if i needed an item for an upgrade and it dropped and it was BOE, i'd sell it?
Why?
It's harder to get AD than it is to get gear! That's why.
Are you forced to join a guild or join legit channel or something, yes, probably, but it's an MMO man, people will naturally group up and join guilds. If you don't want to play in a group and play for yourself, go uninstall neverwinter and play something else. This is the nature of an MMO.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Of all the illogical comments in this thread, describing people who run dungeons to have an equal chance at the end loot as "jerk" tops them all. Congrats!
God forbid they provide a little incentive to join guilds. This is an MMO.
Wake up. A party consists of 5 people. A PUG dungeon is not run merely for the undergeared person in the party. A PUG dungeon run is to BENEFIT ALL FIVE MEMBERS. Stop being narrow-minded and greedy in the perspective of that single player. For you to suggest that one player takes precedence over all other party members is baffling. Now, THAT is the essence of greed.
Haha! Not true in the slightest. If it was hard to get AD, there wouldn't be a million zen's worth sitting around in the exchange. You can grind leadership and hit the RAD cap every day if you keep on top of it. If someone needs on something that's BoE to sell it? They're being a jerk.
I'm social. I do play with others. I've made friends. Just because I don't necessarily WANT to join a guild doesn't mean I'm not a 'real' player of this game. Honestly, because I'm more willing to share with people I've never met before I ran that dungeon when I don't actually NEED something, I'd argue I'm playing to the nature of the MMO more than someone whose attitude is "why should I carry this guy I don't know and not get extra loot for my trouble".
Edit to add:
Actually, I was implying that running PUGs and not wanting to let someone who actually needs something you can't even use have it because you want to sell it is being a jerk. I still stand by that. Wanting to run dungeons with people who agree you're all getting an equal chance at whatever drops whether you can use it or not? Totally different.
To me the sole answer to this problem is communication. Each individual group needs to decide how to best go about things. Each group is going to choose a different path. Only with a lack of communication does problems like this pop up. Granted, there are always going to be a$$hats in game (human nature and all that) but take 5 seconds and as a group make
up some ground rules on each and every pick up team you join. Every person in game is responsible for the problems that this game has, not just the people who need on everything.
STO works on a full NEED basis and that game is running better then most Cryptic games. CO has a much more Diplomatic system where people actually talk to each other before they do anything. OF course a great percentage of those people playing CO now came from City of Heroes. Mad props. Best community for a mmo ever. Neverwinter can be like that if people are willing to take 5 **** seconds and talk to each other.
THe fault lies in the playerbase, in YOU. Not in the system.
If they favor the playerbase that likes to roll 'need' I predict that there will be even more tension than now, and possibly a split among the playerbase.
What I would like to see is to either remove the 'need' button completely (as the OP basically suggested), but I have a better idea:
There should be an option for the party leader to grey out the 'need' button for everyone for that dungeon run, and by default it should be not greyed out unless the party leader takes action. Enableing this option should be only possible for the party leader during the first 45 seconds of the dungeon run, and every partymember should be able to tell at any time wether this option is on or off. That way, we will have no more ninjaing, no more kicking of inexperienced players, and the possibility to roll need if the party wishes to allow it. I see only two minor flaws in this: 1. party wants to grey out need-button, but partyleader forgets to do it, and everyone else forgets to check it. 2. if you use the autoqueue, and the partyleader decides to grey out/not grey out against your preference, you have to leave the party if you are not ok with it.
Greed before need is a very unfair concept in this game. Look at GWF or CW armor. You need 400k to afford the boots. Therefore any other class can greed those boots, win, sell them, buy their classes boots and have left over cash. Where as the GWF and CW need to win multiple sets of other classes boots to save up enough for their own.
So basically, any class that isn't on the favored only needs 1 item from the favored classes to get 2 or 3 of their own. Where as the favored list needs to get 2 or 3 of the other classes items to get 1 of their own. potentially 3 times as many runs to gear up a favored class.
Just give us the **** option to choose need runs or greed runs before we launch the dungeon.