Instead of fixing dungeon skips should they promote it??

pandapaul · September 2014

Now give me a chance to explain what I mean here..

I used to play some old school D&D computer games back in the day and have played a large amount of different genres over the years.. Now there have always been "hidden" exploits in Almost every game.. Now the old D&D games.. There was Always a theme that there was secret locations in the game.. Hidden walls.. Hidden corridors.. And knowing this.. You always wanted to explore the content quite carefully. Now I think it would be cool if they introduced something like this into the game... Now I don't mean easy stuff to find.. I mean introduce some hidden locations in dungeons that are difficult to find.. Where careful exploration is needed.. And make it worthwhile.. Loot chests that drop decent stuff for once or maybe some hidden titles.. So many possibilities...

D&D games always promoted finding shortcuts.. In this game is pretty much forbidden.. Instead if the content was better designed in that way it could add a whole different dimension to dungeon runs..

What do you think?

ulviel · September 2014

There is that secret boss in SP, and the area with undead in ToS... few other surprises here and there, not that much but always something.

aiulian · September 2014

ulviel wrote: »

There is that secret boss in SP, and the area with undead in ToS... few other surprises here and there, not that much but always something.

Karrun has a "special" boss too though it gives next to no drop...

And back to the subject I one have to agree and I have said it before I want to see something special to the next dungeons like party splitting, "nice" full room traps and the party members influencing the way that they take. But... I think I m dreaming to much...

diogene0 · September 2014

Have you ever been on the boat in temple of the spider? There are several similar locations in-game. Just look for them and enjoy the view.

And no they shouldn't allow to skip fights, the core of the game is that it is an action-based game with an excellent combat systems, not super mario in medieval fantasy costumes.

lordshitpost · September 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

Have you ever been on the boat in temple of the spider? There are several similar locations in-game. Just look for them and enjoy the view.

And no they shouldn't allow to skip fights, the core of the game is that it is an action-based game with an excellent combat systems, not super mario in medieval fantasy costumes.

I guess you are missing the point. You should have the opportunity to discover new paths with hidden content. New walls like the one in Celadines tower or the SP boss, something else than pull-stack-kill.

@OP: I'm with you. When I first ran eLoL on the test server, there were many placeholders and the three ways were open. I was hoping to have some kind of group mini game in the final version, but... Some more exciting rooms, boss mechanics and stuff would be great for us PvEers.

abishai3705 · September 2014

Great idea in theory but not in practice... the "secret" will be found, publicized and then farmed until it's no longer profitable to do so. I think optional routes in dungeons is a fun idea, but skipping main fights or adding better loot on certain routes will inevitably lead the main stream PUG groups and the farming guild groups down the "best" route every time, leaving the players that want to explore limited options. Making each route unique, but equally challenging and rewarding would be the only way to make it work... but now you run into the problem of, "why go explore" when the regular route gives you the same results.

rashylewizz · September 2014

Sure, I think they should leave some small skips to artificially increase variability in dungeons.

In fact, I propose they make mini-bosses that are skippable, but also drop pretty decent BOE loot/refinement stones/companions/mounts etc

refracted0dawn · September 2014

What I found least enjoyable about dungeon delves is that a lot of PUG parties just wanted to storm though it as quickly as possible, whereas my Guild and I prefer to explore and get every single bit of treasure. I am still surprised at how many people do not know about the crystals and plants in Cloak Tower, the side dungeons in the basement of Temple of the Spider and the Daughter of Lolth in Cragmire Crypt.

And I hate them charging straight through traps as if they are not there. I think traps should be a lot more varied and do from 30-50% hp damage at low level, rising to 70-100% damage at level 60. Even without a TR to disarm them, that would at least stop Wizards and Rangers ignoring them completely, as setting them off does you no real harm at all.

The OP is correct about Olde Schoole AD&D CRPGs - what are called "exploits" in Neverwinter used to be called "Easter Eggs". I'd like to see more of them in Neverwinter. It's very sad that some people got put on probation or even banned thinking they'd found an Easter Egg when PWE consider it an "Exploit". How many times did people go through the door of a Dungeon at level 60 without realising that "Gear appropriate to your level" in the End Chest was NOT supposed to be a level 60 Epic? The players did not code the game to do that, so why blame them for "exploiting" it? They thought it was part of the game.

I remember the "Eye of the Beholder" I, II, III series by SSI in the early 90s - in each one there was a room where you could close the door, step on pressure plates and respawn the monsters outside, so if you wanted to grind it out you could raise a few levels in a few hours. I still do not know for sure if that was a bug, an exploit or an Easter Egg, but it's odd that each game had one - it was Kenkus in EoB I, Yugoloth in EoB II and I forget what in EoB III.

But in those days we did not have internet, so today word will soon get round and spoil the discovery of exploring, as someone already said.

radiotubby · September 2014

refracted0dawn wrote: »

What I found least enjoyable about dungeon delves is that a lot of PUG parties just wanted to storm though it as quickly as possible, whereas my Guild and I prefer to explore and get every single bit of treasure. I am still surprised at how many people do not know about the crystals and plants in Cloak Tower, the side dungeons in the basement of Temple of the Spider and the Daughter of Lolth in Cragmire Crypt.

Not that all of them don't know about these "hidden secrets". It is these "secrets" are not worthy of the time. Most players only run DD for the rewards and they try to squeeze in multiple runs by using all means to skip trash mobs and bug exploit shortcuts.

hustin1 · September 2014

One idea would be to tie finding secrets to achievements, or to special professions.

bioshrike · September 2014

radiotubby wrote: »

Not that all of them don't know about these "hidden secrets". It is these "secrets" are not worthy of the time. Most players only run DD for the rewards and they try to squeeze in multiple runs by using all means to skip trash mobs and bug exploit shortcuts.

This is pretty much the issue - *If* all these hidden areas provided meaningful rewards and/or saved a significant amount of time, (without using exploits or cheats), then people would make use of them... otherwise, people will continue to ignore it.

hustin1 · September 2014

Finding secrets can be a lot of fun, though as others have said parties tend to skip them in their quest for the reward chest. I've spent a lot of time soloing the normal versions of dungeons just to hunt for secrets. It's only too bad there isn't a non-epic version of CN, MC, or VT that I could solo (except for boss fights perhaps--the mechanics in two of them prevent it). I don't know if they have any secrets but I'd sure like the opportunity to look.

CC is loaded with areas that parties tend to skip. That makes it my favorite dungeon to solo.

zshikara · September 2014

I agree there could be more and harder to get to special secret areas in game, but there are plenty already. Like have you tried getting that arcane node near the fire (across a pit) at the end of phantasmal fortress in dread ring?

bioshrike · October 2014

zshikara wrote: »

I agree there could be more and harder to get to special secret areas in game, but there are plenty already. Like have you tried getting that arcane node near the fire (across a pit) at the end of phantasmal fortress in dread ring?

Yep! Don't let the solution "rail you" too much!

refracted0dawn · October 2014

bioshrike wrote: »

*If* all these hidden areas provided meaningful rewards and/or saved a significant amount of time, (without using exploits or cheats), then people would make use of them... otherwise, people will continue to ignore it.

Well, for me they are worthwhile. And they were certainly fun to explore for the first few times. I have a lot of hungry Artifacts to feed, so any enchants and runes are worth it. Charging to the chest for yet-another-blue-Gloried-Icon in Dread Vault is just stupid and pointless. But most people seem to want to do that, then do it again.

Either that, or sometimes they want to suicide at each camp fire, or run through all the mobs to the end. Which is OK if you are a GWF, but Dwarves have short legs and Priestesses can't run that fast, either. No fun at all. It's most fun with people new to the game, as they are usually happy to explore.

My TR has soloed Cloak Tower, Cragmire Crypt and Lair of the Mad Dragon in Delves this week, so she's going to do the next on the list. She did not have time before, so most of them are still in the Quest Log. Needs the AD as well. Pretty easy so far. Not sure if my DCs could do it, though.

ryugasirius · October 2014

pandapaul wrote: »

Now give me a chance to explain what I mean here..

I used to play some old school D&D computer games back in the day and have played a large amount of different genres over the years.. Now there have always been "hidden" exploits in Almost every game.. Now the old D&D games.. There was Always a theme that there was secret locations in the game.. Hidden walls.. Hidden corridors.. And knowing this.. You always wanted to explore the content quite carefully.

In most non-MMO D&D games you explored each dungeon once, then went onto next one. In MMOs you do the same content hundreds of times, so hidden stuff would quickly become common and farmable knowledge... that's the main difference.

beckylunatic · October 2014

refracted0dawn wrote: »

My TR has soloed Cloak Tower, Cragmire Crypt and Lair of the Mad Dragon in Delves this week, so she's going to do the next on the list. She did not have time before, so most of them are still in the Quest Log. Needs the AD as well. Pretty easy so far. Not sure if my DCs could do it, though.

My DC has soloed normal Idris, GWD, and FH in addition to the dungeons you listed. The only reason I haven't tackled more is lack of time.

Instead of fixing dungeon skips should they promote it??

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