Sometimes you just gotta face the facts and move on. If you think you could make money with the foundry, why not just go grab the Unity engine and make it for yourself?
Company won't allow Foundry updates until Foundry is more popular
Foundry won't become more popular without updates
Ergo, Foundry will never be updated.
Making it profitable, though not an ideal scenario, is a jab at circumventing this cycle of inattention.
They need a platform that players can use to play foundries first. Right now improving rewards will change little for the player's experience, the content will still be the same old stuff that is played now, It needs to be re-invigorated, because right now it's like a 50 year old un-refurbished restaurant that no one wants to go into.
If they can do both improved rewards as well as a new platform at the same time, it could breath new life and interest into the foundry. Then if they see an improvement in player retention then they would need to give us better tools to use.
Foundry could be something that will keep those kind of players who get turned off by the mountain of dailies, or came looking for the neverwinter nights experience.
Sometimes you just gotta face the facts and move on. If you think you could make money with the foundry, why not just go grab the Unity engine and make it for yourself?
Well, medium matters.
For example, Project Spark lets you do a LOT with game design. Except... I want to make quests _within_ a setting, in a population of people for whom my quests are occasional things that work into the fabric of everything they are doing, not the entire game.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
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gornonthecobMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 421Arc User
The problem:
'I enjoy this game at least in part because it has Foundry, so I play it and spend money on it.'
How do we SHOW that?
You just did show it. That sentence is the tagline of most every author here.
~However~
You have an overwhelming percentage of the game's population who will/do treat this game like any other MMO; Grind, grind, grind, get the best loot, best gear, and spend money on performance items.
In short, we authors are performing an epic ballad for a room full of unmovable robots. We're on the wrong stage.
~However~
You have an overwhelming percentage of the game's population who will/do treat this game like any other MMO; Grind, grind, grind, get the best loot, best gear, and spend money on performance items...
... We're on the wrong stage.
Yep. My brother probably falls more into the descriptive category above. He likes good story in his games when it's there (classic cRPGs like BG2), but most of the time he is chasing that extra stat-point. Nothing in the foundry rewards that beyond a few AD for dailies - which he can easily get somewhere else.
It's possible that people are playing foundry content, but when they do they look for ones with more combat. Why? Because you have to kill things to get drops.
If we want more players, we're not going to be able avoid all the farmers. We're just going to have to hope that those that farm also appreciate good quality stories and crafting.
Sure some people play for the Role Playing aspect... but this game (especially since the addition of Artifact refinement) is about a different RP: refinement points.
Right now people are running Tower of Celedaine on repeat just to get stuff for refinement. Whatever change the Foundry gets, it has to be more rewarding than a minimally-challenging 5-min mindless romp in a year-old Lair.
Add a chance at Refinement Stones (or even a guaranteed Peridot or something) out of the final chest.
These are things that everyone is chasing. Make them BoA if they want (or BoC if they want to be evil), so it doesn't screw with the Economy (keeps the worst of the farmers away).
As far as monetization for PW, add a Foundry Token system with the big RP gems as items to redeem with X Foundry Tokens. Alternately/additionally Coalescent and Preservation wards.
And add a cap to the number of Foundry Tokens a player can earn in a given period of time (like they have a cap on the number of Tips you can leave per day). Then add a "Foundry Daily Pass" to the Zen Store that increases or removes the cap for a period of time.
Not a perfect idea, but I'll leave it to discussion.
I just can't get past the simple thing they overlook in the Foundry like, umm Patch Notes?
Every other part of the game gets them, Power, UI, Environment etc. Why can we not get Foundry Patch Notes? There HAS to be a log somewhere with changes, and improvements going on. I have yet to publish a Foundry besucase, I am using a bug detail/sound/encounter and am waiting for it to be fixed. I am staring at you teleports. Cause for me I rather have a BIG open map, and have little place the player can explore, climb, and swim (yes, there is -swimming- on one of my maps. Can you say sunken arcane tower ) So in short, get off your hinny and update the notes, I mean really how hard can it be? Apologies if this sounds like I am bashing but seriously, for a system you use to promote your game, you sure don't provide the Authors with ANY new information at all. For example, we can get the new Cult of the Dragon Encounters, the new ones...DAH HECK did that happen? Zero information give what so ever, we to rely on user-generated update notes (Thank Eldarth) to have ANY idea what is going on.
The lack of notes about updates to the Foundry is pretty ridiculous. I don't know about anyone else, but my maps are now loading without entering 3-D editor, so they obviously did some fixes. It would be nice to know what.
In one way the idea of the foundry having it's own token system is interesting (and I think it's been suggested before if I remember correctly), on the other hand I don't think I've ever played a game with so many versions of in-game money. Not sure how well yet another would go over.
The AD incentive clearly isn't a draw to the older players, and the new players (who it is a draw to) are clearly only going to play the quests that are eligible for it, leaving all the review and new quests to stagnate waiting for their final reviews. Maybe they should leave the AD daily for the players below 60, and for those who reach 60, give a different incentive - RP gems are clearly the hot item - to play foundry quests. (Maybe review new ones that aren't on the featured list?)
I am staring at you teleports. Cause for me I rather have a BIG open map, and have little place the player can explore, climb, and swim (yes, there is -swimming- on one of my maps. Can you say sunken arcane tower )
swimming? I'm curious on how you can do this in the foundry. I have seen an underwtater scene that mixed visual effects with slow fall terrain to simulate slow underwater moving but swimming?
The problem:
'I enjoy this game at least in part because it has Foundry, so I play it and spend money on it.'
How do we SHOW that?
It should be quite easy for developers to tell. I am paying customer (>500$ so far). Just run a simple report showing % of time paying players spend online playing foundries (or making them)
I absolutely love foundry. It's the best thing ever in this game.
Newly bought home : NW-DINQYYYOA - An story about drows, pirates, cookies and one hungry kobold
swimming? I'm curious on how you can do this in the foundry. I have seen an underwtater scene that mixed visual effects with slow fall terrain to simulate slow underwater moving but swimming?
Ah yes that was a bit deceiving, I used the slow-fall volume and added in the effects, sorry to pop the bubble
Ok, I see that NOBODY likes the second idea. That's cool. I wasn't sure if I liked it either. I think it's been pretty well established that is a "no" at this point. So let's get to coming up with some more ideas! Better ones!
I think my problem with this is that I don't see it as an issue at all. The foundry already gets the game publicity. And there are players that only play Neverwinter because of it. In a very real way, it is already making them money. And they are not reconciling that with support.
The foundry is just one of the many game-systems within the game that is Neverwinter. Saying the foundry doesn't make them money is like saying having skirmishes doesn't make them any money. Neither do directly, but players have fun doing them. And they pay for other stuff while they are having fun. Make it more fun, and they'll indirectly increase profitability.
Right now there just isn't much reason for the average player to bother running foundry quests. The AD from the daily quest is nice, but just isn't worth it compared to what you can get from salvage now. So they need to add a reward system. Since I mentioned skirmishes, look at the one they just added with TOD. You can buy a key with Zen for an extra chest of loot. This won't work for the foundry because their is nothing worthwhile that drops in the chest. Not having a reward system eliminates many such possibilities.
On the author side there is a lot they could do as well. A few more tools would be nice. (Bosses & Timers) Personally I'd like to see some sort of author ranking system. Nothing huge, just something that could open up a few advanced features to authors that already have a couple decent quests out. I know not everyone agrees with that though. You shouldn't have to buy any of this though. The point is, the better the quests we can create... then the happier the people that play them. Imo happy players spend more money than others.
Comments
They need a platform that players can use to play foundries first. Right now improving rewards will change little for the player's experience, the content will still be the same old stuff that is played now, It needs to be re-invigorated, because right now it's like a 50 year old un-refurbished restaurant that no one wants to go into.
If they can do both improved rewards as well as a new platform at the same time, it could breath new life and interest into the foundry. Then if they see an improvement in player retention then they would need to give us better tools to use.
Foundry could be something that will keep those kind of players who get turned off by the mountain of dailies, or came looking for the neverwinter nights experience.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Well, medium matters.
For example, Project Spark lets you do a LOT with game design. Except... I want to make quests _within_ a setting, in a population of people for whom my quests are occasional things that work into the fabric of everything they are doing, not the entire game.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
You just did show it. That sentence is the tagline of most every author here.
~However~
You have an overwhelming percentage of the game's population who will/do treat this game like any other MMO; Grind, grind, grind, get the best loot, best gear, and spend money on performance items.
In short, we authors are performing an epic ballad for a room full of unmovable robots.
Locksheon Gaming
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Yep. My brother probably falls more into the descriptive category above. He likes good story in his games when it's there (classic cRPGs like BG2), but most of the time he is chasing that extra stat-point. Nothing in the foundry rewards that beyond a few AD for dailies - which he can easily get somewhere else.
It's possible that people are playing foundry content, but when they do they look for ones with more combat. Why? Because you have to kill things to get drops.
If we want more players, we're not going to be able avoid all the farmers. We're just going to have to hope that those that farm also appreciate good quality stories and crafting.
Sure some people play for the Role Playing aspect... but this game (especially since the addition of Artifact refinement) is about a different RP: refinement points.
Right now people are running Tower of Celedaine on repeat just to get stuff for refinement. Whatever change the Foundry gets, it has to be more rewarding than a minimally-challenging 5-min mindless romp in a year-old Lair.
Add a chance at Refinement Stones (or even a guaranteed Peridot or something) out of the final chest.
These are things that everyone is chasing. Make them BoA if they want (or BoC if they want to be evil), so it doesn't screw with the Economy (keeps the worst of the farmers away).
As far as monetization for PW, add a Foundry Token system with the big RP gems as items to redeem with X Foundry Tokens. Alternately/additionally Coalescent and Preservation wards.
And add a cap to the number of Foundry Tokens a player can earn in a given period of time (like they have a cap on the number of Tips you can leave per day). Then add a "Foundry Daily Pass" to the Zen Store that increases or removes the cap for a period of time.
Not a perfect idea, but I'll leave it to discussion.
Every other part of the game gets them, Power, UI, Environment etc. Why can we not get Foundry Patch Notes? There HAS to be a log somewhere with changes, and improvements going on. I have yet to publish a Foundry besucase, I am using a bug detail/sound/encounter and am waiting for it to be fixed. I am staring at you teleports. Cause for me I rather have a BIG open map, and have little place the player can explore, climb, and swim (yes, there is -swimming- on one of my maps. Can you say sunken arcane tower
In one way the idea of the foundry having it's own token system is interesting (and I think it's been suggested before if I remember correctly), on the other hand I don't think I've ever played a game with so many versions of in-game money. Not sure how well yet another would go over.
The AD incentive clearly isn't a draw to the older players, and the new players (who it is a draw to) are clearly only going to play the quests that are eligible for it, leaving all the review and new quests to stagnate waiting for their final reviews. Maybe they should leave the AD daily for the players below 60, and for those who reach 60, give a different incentive - RP gems are clearly the hot item - to play foundry quests. (Maybe review new ones that aren't on the featured list?)
It should be quite easy for developers to tell. I am paying customer (>500$ so far). Just run a simple report showing % of time paying players spend online playing foundries (or making them)
I absolutely love foundry. It's the best thing ever in this game.
Ah yes that was a bit deceiving, I used the slow-fall volume and added in the effects, sorry to pop the bubble
Bloom sort of works but is excessive.
Experimenting with coastal water, never seemed to be enough space to do much.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I think my problem with this is that I don't see it as an issue at all. The foundry already gets the game publicity. And there are players that only play Neverwinter because of it. In a very real way, it is already making them money. And they are not reconciling that with support.
The foundry is just one of the many game-systems within the game that is Neverwinter. Saying the foundry doesn't make them money is like saying having skirmishes doesn't make them any money. Neither do directly, but players have fun doing them. And they pay for other stuff while they are having fun. Make it more fun, and they'll indirectly increase profitability.
Right now there just isn't much reason for the average player to bother running foundry quests. The AD from the daily quest is nice, but just isn't worth it compared to what you can get from salvage now. So they need to add a reward system. Since I mentioned skirmishes, look at the one they just added with TOD. You can buy a key with Zen for an extra chest of loot. This won't work for the foundry because their is nothing worthwhile that drops in the chest. Not having a reward system eliminates many such possibilities.
On the author side there is a lot they could do as well. A few more tools would be nice. (Bosses & Timers) Personally I'd like to see some sort of author ranking system. Nothing huge, just something that could open up a few advanced features to authors that already have a couple decent quests out. I know not everyone agrees with that though. You shouldn't have to buy any of this though. The point is, the better the quests we can create... then the happier the people that play them. Imo happy players spend more money than others.