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State of PvP
yoadoad
Member Posts: 182 Bounty Hunter
I understand that there's a topic about it, but it is getting ignored... I've never seen the PvP in this game in such terrible state... My previous topic wasn't "constructive" and was deleted, so I'll try to be as constructive as I can on this one...
Why do I think the PvP is in a bad condition? Well, The queues are longer than ever, I'm getting teamed up with guys who are way out of my league in terms of gear, or I'm way out of their league (I've found myself with 6k higher GS than some players, found myself coupled with guys who had 7k higher GS than me), I'm getting teamed up with more premades, and hell, the moment I see that Glyph ticking, I tell myself "Time to go home... the campfire awaits". There are more unplayable matches than playable matches, because it takes just one glyph user, or one premade, or one bad formation where your team has a 9k player while the other team has 15k+ players - And the match is unplayable. My last queue had all 3 factors, and it ended 1000-61 or something.
So, this is probably still not constructive enough - Maybe I'll just expand on every issue, and offer a solution, and maybe then it will be addressed by someone and not deleted...
1. Pre-mades
Look, I understand that one of the most fun things is running with your team, with your friends, with players you know and trust, and try your best to win. You do this because you want to compete, right? Well, when a pre-made party meets a random party, there's no competition at all. I have yet to see a cometitive match where 3 or more players of the same guild were in one party and the other party was full of randoms.
It's just a deal breaker. A random party of average players has no chance of competing against a pre-made 5 players team. It doesn't work like that. And it's ruining the matches...
Solution:
1. Limit the amount of people that can queue together to 2, if at all, for the random PvP.
2. Add a different mode for pre-mades 3vs3, 4vs4, 5vs5, where you can fight other pre-mades randomly or choose a pre-made party from a pool.
3. For suggestion #2, add a general Guilds leaderboard. Do a W/L for every guild that competes in this mode. This way you'd encourage them to compete one against another instead of ruining the random, average player PvP.
2. Glyphs
Nothing to expand here, because there's a topic of 11 pages of people saying it should be nerfed... But no official comment.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?755831-Dragon-glyphs-ruining-pvp
Solution:
Remove Glyphs from PvP completely... Keep them where in PvE, where they could benefit plays and not ruin everything...
3. GS Based Matchmaking
We've all seen it, some guy on our team has a combination of blue and T1/T2 purples while the other team has that 19k CW with a legendary perfect enchantment main hand... Another disturbing problem is the highly equipped low-level toons that ruin PvP for the new players. You have to understand, when one of those things happen, the match is usually unplayable. When there's such a huge gear difference between two teams, there's no competition at all.
Now, I understand that the bad matchmaking is because there aren't enough players who PvP so it's hard to pair up players with equal gear because there aren't enough. Well think for yourselves why there aren't enough! Look at all those issues that make PvP unplayable!!!
Solution:
1. Limit PvP Below level 59 to R6 (R5 until 40) enchantments max, and lesser enchantments max.
2. Fix ALL the previous issues. Then promote PvP with double glory weekend or with an event that gives some items based on glory or PvP points for a short time. Then when you re-gain more people, you could finally introduce good matchmaking.
These are the main issues that require immediate fixes. Now for an "optional" issue...
4. More PvP modes
Let's face it, there's 1 active PvP mode (that has only 2 maps), one Half-PvP Half horse race that can be played on very specific hours, and one open world PvP that is more of a deserted playground than a big battlefield. Even if everything were perfect - No glyphs, good matchmaking, etc- People would still get bored of doing the same PvP mode over and over again for months and even years. Playing the same mode, same map... It isn't fun after a while.
Solution:
1. Add more maps to every mode (especially Domination)
2. Add additional modes (for example: Capture the flag. It's just an example, it's up to you to think about the new modes, just add something).
After having 7 unplayable matches and one playable match over the last few days I've decided that until those issues are fixed, I'm done with PvP. It isn't fun, it has many issues, and it's just getting worse and worse. In my opinion if we all quit until those issues are fixed, maybe someone will do something about it...
Why do I think the PvP is in a bad condition? Well, The queues are longer than ever, I'm getting teamed up with guys who are way out of my league in terms of gear, or I'm way out of their league (I've found myself with 6k higher GS than some players, found myself coupled with guys who had 7k higher GS than me), I'm getting teamed up with more premades, and hell, the moment I see that Glyph ticking, I tell myself "Time to go home... the campfire awaits". There are more unplayable matches than playable matches, because it takes just one glyph user, or one premade, or one bad formation where your team has a 9k player while the other team has 15k+ players - And the match is unplayable. My last queue had all 3 factors, and it ended 1000-61 or something.
So, this is probably still not constructive enough - Maybe I'll just expand on every issue, and offer a solution, and maybe then it will be addressed by someone and not deleted...
1. Pre-mades
Look, I understand that one of the most fun things is running with your team, with your friends, with players you know and trust, and try your best to win. You do this because you want to compete, right? Well, when a pre-made party meets a random party, there's no competition at all. I have yet to see a cometitive match where 3 or more players of the same guild were in one party and the other party was full of randoms.
It's just a deal breaker. A random party of average players has no chance of competing against a pre-made 5 players team. It doesn't work like that. And it's ruining the matches...
Solution:
1. Limit the amount of people that can queue together to 2, if at all, for the random PvP.
2. Add a different mode for pre-mades 3vs3, 4vs4, 5vs5, where you can fight other pre-mades randomly or choose a pre-made party from a pool.
3. For suggestion #2, add a general Guilds leaderboard. Do a W/L for every guild that competes in this mode. This way you'd encourage them to compete one against another instead of ruining the random, average player PvP.
2. Glyphs
Nothing to expand here, because there's a topic of 11 pages of people saying it should be nerfed... But no official comment.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?755831-Dragon-glyphs-ruining-pvp
Solution:
Remove Glyphs from PvP completely... Keep them where in PvE, where they could benefit plays and not ruin everything...
3. GS Based Matchmaking
We've all seen it, some guy on our team has a combination of blue and T1/T2 purples while the other team has that 19k CW with a legendary perfect enchantment main hand... Another disturbing problem is the highly equipped low-level toons that ruin PvP for the new players. You have to understand, when one of those things happen, the match is usually unplayable. When there's such a huge gear difference between two teams, there's no competition at all.
Now, I understand that the bad matchmaking is because there aren't enough players who PvP so it's hard to pair up players with equal gear because there aren't enough. Well think for yourselves why there aren't enough! Look at all those issues that make PvP unplayable!!!
Solution:
1. Limit PvP Below level 59 to R6 (R5 until 40) enchantments max, and lesser enchantments max.
2. Fix ALL the previous issues. Then promote PvP with double glory weekend or with an event that gives some items based on glory or PvP points for a short time. Then when you re-gain more people, you could finally introduce good matchmaking.
These are the main issues that require immediate fixes. Now for an "optional" issue...
4. More PvP modes
Let's face it, there's 1 active PvP mode (that has only 2 maps), one Half-PvP Half horse race that can be played on very specific hours, and one open world PvP that is more of a deserted playground than a big battlefield. Even if everything were perfect - No glyphs, good matchmaking, etc- People would still get bored of doing the same PvP mode over and over again for months and even years. Playing the same mode, same map... It isn't fun after a while.
Solution:
1. Add more maps to every mode (especially Domination)
2. Add additional modes (for example: Capture the flag. It's just an example, it's up to you to think about the new modes, just add something).
After having 7 unplayable matches and one playable match over the last few days I've decided that until those issues are fixed, I'm done with PvP. It isn't fun, it has many issues, and it's just getting worse and worse. In my opinion if we all quit until those issues are fixed, maybe someone will do something about it...
Post edited by yoadoad on
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Comments
2. If you do PvP, boot anyone in your party who's using Dragon Glyphs in a vague attempt at vigilantism.
And what if it's even worse on the next patch?, oh... wait, its impossible
I'm a casual PvP'er,... but I find it a lot of fun! Well,... until about the time of the last patch. When I run the 4 daily PvP matches,.. I'd usually get 1 win,... pretty easy,.. I'd get dropped in with a good team,.... 1 Huge loss (like 1000 to 200 or 150),... and 2 very close, but competitive matches (usually losses - LOL ) Now,.... no chance. I've had nothing but HUGE losses (10 in a row of 1000 to less than 100). That could just be the luck of the draw,.. but that just doesn't make sense with what I was seeing before? and yes,... I'm a HR that got nerfed in the last round of changes into a glass cannon,...
Still,... my last match total gear scores (about 10 minutes ago - that's what made me want to post in the forums),.... well my team total GS was 44000. I had the most at 14.2. The other team - their lowest player was 17.1. There team was at least 85.5.
Like you said,... it wasn't a match,.. it was a slaughter,... and frankly, wasn't any fun for anyone,... winners or losers,... and the glory each side earned was nothing.
Something needs to be done to balance PvP. Hey,... they 'balanced' the classes?.... (of course, that means I gotta completely respect and hope the build still plays,..... o.O)
Anyway,.. very nicely said,.... I agree completely.
I think they dont get it that whenever a next big mmo comes out they will lose half of the playerbase because there is nothing to do in NW.
Guys, give it up already. They have clearly stated they dont care about PvP. So do yourself a favour and go play archage or something. It will make you alot happier and alot less frustrated
Because they broken OP and bring more cheeze to PvP then anything ever FFS!
I dont know why you are even replying to posts like this. Clearly you are not a PvP players, i dont know what aspects of this game you are on about, but im guessing its doing dailys.
Glyphs should be removed or fixed because it benefints some classes WAY more then others, which makes for big balance issues. I hope that clears it up.
PvP is lacking players because every module it brings some huge imbalancing stuff and players stop PvPing until they fix it. While this takes a while, most players find another game to play in the meanwhile and stay there. Also, PvP is lacking players because the DEVs simply dont care about PvP. It has to lack.
Open World PvP is lacking because nobody has any reason to go there besides doing a few 1v1s, or cheating the progressions campaign. Why? Well because they allowed pets, the rewards are none. I see no reason to go there. Also, did i mention they allowed companions???????
Unfortunately PvP is so horrible for a PvE players for all these reasons. Because not enoguh people
1. You either have them or you don't. And if you don't, with equal gear, you have slim to no chances of beating a guy that is using them. This further makes the PvP more gear based than skill based (As if it wasn't the case until now), and it's so bad. Now, while some of the other gear boosters increase your damage by a moderate amount, and require A LOT of work (It takes effort to get an artifact weapon, a perfect enchantment, etc - and each one doesn't increase your damage by tons), the glyphs add much more damage...
2. They are consumables, which is just annoying, because you have to keep re-filling them...
3. They render all sets except Black Ice and Draconic useless. This limits classes to certain builds who are better and other builds that are now clearly inferior. Like perma-TR, that needs his profound set for the stealth.
So, unfair advantage, only on a specific set, and as consumable... It's a pain to play against, and a pain to use...
While I find some of your points valid, I have to disagree with what you said here. You apparently confuse the current matchmaking system with a GS matchmaking system. What we and others want is very simple:
We only want to meet players within our GS range.
I understand that determining a proper GS for PvP purposes isn't so easy, since certain boons and enchants dont count into the GS equation. Nonetheless it is not impossible and there are several options one can think of. However I belive the chances are slim that the devs will make this go into live, because they probably use that frustrating experience of undergeard players to ensure that a faction of them spend money into the game to purchase better gear.
I find the PvP mechanic in this game alot fun and apparently I am not alone, otherwise there would be no PvP going on at all. This might also be the point of the devs. They could say that if the current state of PvP is so worse, none would actually do it. But they should consider that in the end only those remain a constant in PvP who are already well geared. I think new players will sooner or later skip PvP unless they start to spend some money into that game. It looks like this is sadly the concept of all this.
I for myself stopped with domination matches because of the KV/Glyph <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It is clearly OP, even in PvE. In PvE I was in a group of someone using that mechanic and the entire party remained at full HP over the course, while my screen was constantly shaking.
Or must I now start to PvP on my lvl 60 GF?
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
And I am not one to whine about "my class sucks!!!", I'm a low gs (~14k) combat TR, I like my playstyle even though I cannot beat every class 1v1, but those glyphs are just too much.
By the way, get attacked by a red dragon glyph user and tell me if tenacity, defense or deflection do something... All I see is 600 600 600 600...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Also purple gear that can be used at low levels like Mulhorand, Xvim, etc is also bad, this stuff should be level 60 only.
I think another way to make new players competitive at low levels is to slash the glory prices of low level pvp gear by half and give players a mission sending them to the vendor and enough glory for a free piece so they get in the habit of using pvp gear. Even without high level enchants if we can at least get lowbies into full tenacity gear for their level they will have a chance.
Also t1 level 60 pvp set should be lowered then we end up with less players in blue gear at level 60 pvp.
What do you mean, cancel each other out?
In terms of PvP performance, depending on class, BI gear VASTLY outperforms the Profound sets to the point where when you slot Red glyphs, there's no way for somebody in Profound to win an encounter against you. The Red Glyph damage is dramatic and doesn't respect anything. I posted ACT logs before about this - think about a TR where Aspect of the Flames (glyphs) deals most damage from everything he did in that game (22% or so) followed by CoS at 20%-ish).
BI domination. Lots of gfs using kV. Lot of glyph usrs. Many players on screen already. When'a'gf'activates his cheese, game drops to a slide show. Kill the GF, situation gets better. then another one start doing His thing and it's laggy again. My little gwf tries to fight, sprint in and out from the brawl. Yellow and blue laser beams on me. Screen shaking. Lasers everywhere. Thought Palpatine would show up and ask me to join the dark side.
To beautifully complete the picture: some smart guy accuses me of speed hacking due to bravery+ battlefury+horn.
....
For me, it's two games, Mark Jacob's new Camelot game and EQ Next (this one I may give up on since devs are already implementing dumb ****).
This is a good thread and I agree with it.
-Kymos
it's NOT FUN going against 20k tryhards
you stand very little chance as a 14-15k
please, PLEASE, seperate the end game pvp matches into the "haves" and the "have nots"....let the wallet warrior 18-21k tryhards kill themselves
instead of just roflstomping pugs that are victim to the game's poor match making
I mean matchmaking wtf lol...
Well actually, a video game is the wrong place to cry about dying. You lose what, 30 seconds? Dust yourself off and jump back into the fight. Or stop pvp'ing if it traumatizes you.
Venril- SW
Lurch- GF
Mini Ven- DC
You must be new here... Na, joke.
But Matchmaking is like that since forever, so What's the new?.
Glyphs just make the game skill-less. The game deals damage for you.
Knight Valor is a skilled and bugged move too right now.
Passive damage procs on lock-on at-wills is skill-less too.
Piercing damage is another cheesy skill-less thing.
Expecially considering that compared to GWF or TR, landing hits as a HR is so much easier.
Now, for a game that claims to be "action", it does not offer much action.
And the funny thing is that people complained so much about threat rush on GWFs and FLS, then when much more cheesy stuff is applied to their class, it's all ok and gameplay must be "simple".
If you want point&click mmorpgs there are many others out there with more and better content.
People comes here to have action combat. Action means you need to aim and time your moves to land your hits.
Auto-lock is not aiming.
Auto-gap closing melee with insta-rush to the enemy is not "timing" your move.
Holding down one button and look at laser beams automatically killing your enemies is not action either, nor skill.
Passive damage proccing from the above stuff is not action.
If everything that makes combat in NW has to be gear and passive stuff, then there's no reason to play neverwinter in place of other MMORPGS with less bugs, better content.
So it's not about dying. It's about fun and gameplay. Cause i can die all the time by the hands of skilled players. It's quite different if i consistently outplay my opponent but still the guy can win by just holding down a button or rolling his/ her face all over the keyboard.
Minimum skill requirement in combat should be FLS: you aim in one direction, you shoot your power. If you aim and time correctly, you hit. If you fail and i outplay you, GTFO and die. Else the game becomes what it is now: a lamefest filled with FOTM guys with overgeared toons and poor skills, winning cause even when outplayed, all they need to do is hold down a button and rely on their gear.
Not mentioning the fact that KV, no matter the graphic settings, makes the game shake and lag so much it gets unplayable. Plain and simple.
I don't care if i win or lose. But have fun in a game yes, that is important to me. Devs made my class, GWF, fun again and no more easy mode, but turned most of the rest into a cheesy, automatic, easy mode thing. I always ask myself what kind ideas floated in the head of the guy who made these decisions. There should be some hidden reason, cause gameplay-wise, 90% of the choices made in module 4 are terrible. Truly terrible.