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Terror vs Plague Fire

gvstonedgvstoned Member Posts: 19 Arc User
edited September 2014 in PvE Discussion
Is there a reason people are using Terror over Plague Fire enchant?
Because to me Plague Fire seems like an improved version of Terror.

Lesser is -5% defense (terror) vs -5%x3=-15% defense (plague fire), forgot the extra weapon damage but plague fire has more than terror with the damage over time.
Normal is -10% defense (terror) vs -10%x3=-30% defense (plague fire), with plague fire having more weapon damage as well with the damage over time added.


Am I missing something? What's wrong?
Post edited by gvstoned on

Comments

  • verilosverilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 77
    edited January 2014
    Been a while since I used either but iirc Plague stacks don't refresh earlier ones so you need to keep attacking rapidly to keep all 3.
    There may be other intricacies as well but I imagine for pvp Terror is far better than Plague.
    For pve I'm not aware of any instance in which any version of Terror is better than GPF.

    Also, Terror has a perfect version, Plague does not.

    Edit:
    Also all those 'defense' tooltips tend to be HAMSTER. They are usually mitigation debuffs for far less than the defense % stated. Do tests on a dummy to see what the actual debuffs of both are.
    Some sources here claim that GPF is 3% per stack and P. Terror is only 4%. So there's that.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Terror is cheaper and easier to upgrade.
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  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    1. Debuff duration - Plague Fire falls off extremely quickly, within 3s. Terror lasts twice as long.
    2. Debuff stacking - Plague Fire requires rapid stacking to maximise its effect. Terror does not.
    3. Cost - Terror much cheaper than Plague Fire.
    4. Availability - Terror shards are much more available than Lesser Plague Fire, making for easier upgrades, especially with Refinement system from Shadowmantle.
    5. Threat - there could also be a threat issue. PF/DoTs in general seem to add threat, hence one of the reasons why tank classes like them. So, HR's, for example, may prefer Terror to minimize their threat.
  • gvstonedgvstoned Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    So terror would be advised for PVP then? I'm a GWF if it matters.
  • masterjewstarmasterjewstar Member Posts: 563
    edited January 2014
    I don't think terror stacks like pf does. I thought it was solid 1 time refreshable. With lesser =10% only.
    lesser plague is right though 15% full stacks which is hard for some to keep them up.
  • xxmantaraxxxxmantaraxx Member Posts: 362 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Having used both I settled back on PF for my GWF. The extra threat helps me hold groups in agro, overall I noticed an increase in damage output and faster kill times. I like terror a lot (the looks on the normal and up are great) and it has been a nice addition to my DC while I wait for a coal ward to drop from a prayer box and make a vorp for him.

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  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    I thought terror lowers mitigation (combination of defense and AC)

    where plaguefire just lowers the defense stat by a base percentage per stack . (where some classes dont even get to 30% defense unless specifically statted for that)
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    My GWF just switched from Terror to PF.
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    The dot is a big difference too, so on my MoF cw I run a perfect terror.

    The problem is uptime. If gpf was up 100% it's better but you'd have to hit every target once a second. Terror you have to hit once every four seconds, so that's the big difference for PvE.

    In pvp gpf adds dots to classes that don't normally dot, like dc or gf.

    Overall I have both and they are both excellent. I think in a party the best option is one of each.
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  • hidahayabusahidahayabusa Member Posts: 634 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    If you are looking of PvP, then probably Terror is better. For PvE Plaguefire tends to shine when you got an ability that bypasses the rule of 5 and hits everything (Icy Terrain/Split the Sky etc).

    In PvP, against the tough targets that move a lot, stacking 3 PF dots is quite difficult for some classes (TRs can easily stack multiple strikes, just like HR's Fox Shift...but GWF can't do it easily). Also the necrotic damage increase based on weapon damage is amazing.
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  • zargorius666zargorius666 Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    hidahayabusa wrote: »
    Also the necrotic damage increase based on weapon damage is amazing.

    Can you elaborate on this please? Considering that my average weapon damage is around 720 and greater terror giving 9.5% that makes additional 68 damage. It appears to be insignificant considering I usually crit from 3k upwards - is there something I'm missing?
  • verilosverilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 77
    edited January 2014
    zargorius666 wrote: »
    Can you elaborate on this please? Considering that my average weapon damage is around 720 and greater terror giving 9.5% that makes additional 68 damage. It appears to be insignificant considering I usually crit from 3k upwards - is there something I'm missing?

    He probably refers to the fact that necrotic damage ignores all resistances. Which is nice though I am not sure how significant.
  • tickdofftickdoff Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    One other thing to consider for PvE: Plaguefire and Terror stack with each other, but not with themselves. In other words, if 2 people in a group are running Terror then mobs are not getting their defenses reduced 2 times, but if 1 person runs terror and 1 runs PF, then you are getting the most debuff that you can. I run a G.Terror and have been quite happy with it on my HR, and the reason I like it is summed up in a post above me, cost+effectiveness.
  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,665 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    verilos wrote: »
    He probably refers to the fact that necrotic damage ignores all resistances. Which is nice though I am not sure how significant.
    That was just on Tenes and I believe that's been fixed. The damage types are just generic descriptors that don't have any game effect.
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  • cwforumpostercwforumposter Banned Users Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    VORPAL.. /thread
  • faekz0rfaekz0r Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    cwforumposter wrote: »
    VORPAL.. /thread
    It would actually be much more efficient if for example the one in the party who deals the most damage without any enchants uses vorpal and other guys go plague & terror. Vorpal is not the only right answer.
  • zargorius666zargorius666 Member Posts: 118 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    faekz0r wrote: »
    It would actually be much more efficient if for example the one in the party who deals the most damage without any enchants uses vorpal and other guys go plague & terror. Vorpal is not the only right answer.

    So the question is, do Terror/Plague provide any useful damege increase besides the debuff?
  • arinathosarinathos Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Does necrotic damage really ignore defense? One of my guild members said that her damage reports showed that her terror enchantment wasn't doing the damage it should have against other players with a high defense score...
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    arinathos wrote: »
    Does necrotic damage really ignore defense? One of my guild members said that her damage reports showed that her terror enchantment wasn't doing the damage it should have against other players with a high defense score...

    NO. It does NOT. I do not understand why these rumors continue to persist when it is so easy to test yourself.

    This is what you actually see in your combat log from the two main sources of player Necrotic damage,

    pSUyOO7.png?1
    cpDlSpk.png?1

    i.e. the damage landed is mitigated by the mob.

    IF Necrotic damage ignored damage resistance or mitigation, this is what you would see,

    [Combat (Self)] Your Terror Weapon deals 34 Necrotic to Ashen Miner.
    [Combat (Self)] Your Plague Fire Weapon deals 19 Necrotic to Ashen Miner.

    You will never see that in-game from any one damage type like Necrotic/Radiant/Physical etc. because they are just labels that have no specific effect. If damage ignores mitigation it is due to that specific source of damage, e.g. Tenebrous enchants before they were fixed.
  • overddriveoverddrive Member Posts: 722 Bounty Hunter
    edited January 2014
    I like Terror better just because so many people have PF, it doesn't stack with PF from other players, and I like the way it looks. If you like both maybe the answer is to just have one of each on the same version of two weapons.
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  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    overddrive states why i'm using terror, plus it matchs they dye on my SW set XD.

    CW with vorpal often are trying to win paingiver rather than win the fight. Vorpal is excellent, but it is overrated once you consider the increased weapon damage plus the increased damage the mobs are taking from everyone.
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  • dsolzdsolz Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    overddrive states why i'm using terror, plus it matchs they dye on my SW set XD.

    CW with vorpal often are trying to win paingiver rather than win the fight. Vorpal is excellent, but it is overrated once you consider the increased weapon damage plus the increased damage the mobs are taking from everyone.

    Agree on the vorpal part. It is overrated. Most people just see the big numbers and presume that they are doing more 50 percent damage.
    The fact is it is More like 15% increase in dps on average.
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    dsolz wrote: »
    Agree on the vorpal part. It is overrated. Most people just see the big numbers and presume that they are doing more 50 percent damage.
    The fact is it is More like 15% increase in dps on average.

    I bring a vorpal on my CW because the people I run with have terror and pf already. Little point in doubling up.
    My GWF runs a bronzewood for now, she needs the extra threat since she's not geared enough to keep aggro in PvE purely through damage.

    GF runs a terror, which as soon as my GF is wanted in PvE again will be changed for PF and my TR being mostly single target runs a vorpal since she isn't going to be debuffing entire trucktones on mobs. DC uses a vorpal as well. Might eventually change that for a Holy Avenger, have to do some testing.

    If I ever get to the point where I have AD dripping out my eyballs I'll probably have three BiS weapons with perfect versions of Vorpal and Terror and a GPF so I can interchange them as the situation requires. Sadly, I'm not even close to that rich.
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  • vorphiedvorphied Member Posts: 1,870 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    overddrive states why i'm using terror, plus it matchs they dye on my SW set XD.

    CW with vorpal often are trying to win paingiver rather than win the fight. Vorpal is excellent, but it is overrated once you consider the increased weapon damage plus the increased damage the mobs are taking from everyone.

    I usually suggest that if the goal is to help buff party-wide damage in PvE, then PF is superior to Terror for CW since stacking PF on multiple targets is simple and provides a superior damage increase, while if the goal is to deal maximum burst damage for PvP and to carry the bulk of the party's damage output, then Vorpal fills both of those roles well.

    I would expect that PF or Terror on a CW would become more effective the smaller the variation among party members' damage dealt. If everyone is within a few mil of each other, that suggests to me that a debuffing enchantment could be most beneficial for overall damage; if the CW is dealing more damage than the rest of the party put together, then it becomes harder to make a case for something other than Vorpal.
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  • aaronlove83aaronlove83 Member Posts: 9
    edited September 2014
    vorphied wrote: »
    I usually suggest that if the goal is to help buff party-wide damage in PvE, then PF is superior to Terror for CW since stacking PF on multiple targets is simple and provides a superior damage increase, while if the goal is to deal maximum burst damage for PvP and to carry the bulk of the party's damage output, then Vorpal fills both of those roles well.

    I would expect that PF or Terror on a CW would become more effective the smaller the variation among party members' damage dealt. If everyone is within a few mil of each other, that suggests to me that a debuffing enchantment could be most beneficial for overall damage; if the CW is dealing more damage than the rest of the party put together, then it becomes harder to make a case for something other than Vorpal.

    To play Lazarus and ressurect a dead thread, what is the ultimate result of this. For my GF I plan to run Bronzewood, though I was thinking I should go ahead and prep myself to get Terror as well. GPF seems like a waste since I can often find gaps in my attack speed and am sure the stacks would drop and have to be rebuilt (i.e. getting out of AoE)
  • lewstelamon01lewstelamon01 Member Posts: 7,415 Arc User
    edited September 2014
    Egad...Kelemvor is not a pleased deity. Please leave the dead to the grave. Thank you.
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