Frontline surge got 2 damage nerfs - now it hits like 2k it used to be 4k+ and they removed the prone. Imo it offers too less for 18 sec dooldown. 20-30% lesser cooldown on fls would be appropritate. The lack of a prone would be ok if the !range! classes HR and SW wouln't have a prone too.
Frontline surge got 2 damage nerfs - now it hits like 2k it used to be 4k+ and they removed the prone. Imo it offers too less for 18 sec dooldown. 20-30% lesser cooldown on fls would be appropritate. The lack of a prone would be ok if the !range! classes HR and SW wouln't have a prone too.
I agree with the HR, however that is a combat spec. And if they spec for Archery, Boars Charge does little to no damage.
SW has little to no CC. And their Prone is quite hard to get off. A two part cast - with both the initial DoT and then the prone animation being quite easy to dodge.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
New GWF is god mode op. High cc, 100 % cc resist uptime, high damage, god mode/immortal.
GWF need hard nerf! Remove cc resist and dr from sprint and tone down the damage. FS has the range of a ranged class. Range should be 1/4 of what it is now.
FS has the range of a ranged class. Range should be 1/4 of what it is now.
You do realize that the range is 30 right? Ranged classes have a range of 80 usually (or at least over 60). The normal range of a GWF attack is 13 (about there, haven't checked recently) so if its 1/4 of the range, then its literally half of the range of the normal GWF range for their attacks.
New GWF is god mode op. High cc, 100 % cc resist uptime, high damage, god mode/immortal.
GWF need hard nerf! Remove cc resist and dr from sprint and tone down the damage. FS has the range of a ranged class. Range should be 1/4 of what it is now.
GWF does not need another nerf on top of how it sits at the moment. I don't play the class, so I cannot comment on what needs to happen for it to be functioning in the current meta.
However, alot of its problems lie in how Piercing Blade and Glyphs currently melt them. I feel that if both Piercing Blade and the Glyphs (All of the glyphs) had an ICD and were affected by DR and Deflect (And Piercing really needs to be affected by DR as well, it's crazy how good it is at the moment.) that metawise, GWFs would be in a good spot again. Not back to your Mod 3 Glory days, but filling their own Niche in the meta.
Likewise with the GF reflect built. Should Glyphs obey DR and Deflect, have an ICD and KV not be granting as much AP generation as it currently does (Seriously, back to back dailies guys?), that GFs will be in a good spot as well.
Desidus@Xtraordinary91
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Pvp on my gwf is either useless or irritating since mod 4, I either minimal damage then taking fire run and heal, or run in get a kill and most likely die, there isn't a fun middle ground any more and with all the ranged classes now it makes it feel like your a sitting duck.
Ive given up and gone back to PVE as gwfs are frankly outclassed by almost everything else now.
New GWF is god mode op. High cc, 100 % cc resist uptime, high damage, god mode/immortal.
GWF need hard nerf! Remove cc resist and dr from sprint and tone down the damage. FS has the range of a ranged class. Range should be 1/4 of what it is now.
lol wat.
you obviously are not playing as a gwf, they are not god mode.
And if you are getting killed by them your not playing properly either.
They are EASY to melt and even easier to dodge.
0
idontwinitskkMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 43Arc User
edited September 2014
How to balance PvP - make slight tweaks to different classes at the same time,have a test period to gather data on how they impact the different matchups and if more tweaks are needed act accordingly.
How to not balance PvP - carpet bomb everything good about *OP* classes, buff everything deemed bad on *UP* classes while mass reworking some if not all of them.
GWF Module 3 had 3 problems - too high damage scaling for how fast you could get to full stacks(even though that came with the drawback of using GPF and giving enemy HRs and CWs procs on their defensive feats/set healing),too long cc duration on Roar and unlimited rush spam not allowing much counterplay vs a GWF in unstoppable.Instead of tweaking those 3 aspects they completely gutted everything good about the class(besides the spike damage) and gave it one redeeming quality in the form of CC immunity on sprint which,while it does finally allow for some outplay potential different to *i roar ur face so u can't hit me brah*, really offers nothing versus all the easy mode point and click unresistable and/or proc damage and cc flying your way constantly and probably from range.
GWF is also the only class in the game that has access to skill based cc in the form of Roar and Frontline and is actually FORCED to use it to be viable.And at the moment one of those skills is a waste of power points and the other does nothing vs high resist classes or deflect and comes with a huge cooldown and low damage for extra flavour.
The class itself is decent to good,but all the bugs with stuns make it unreliable(seriously,those were supposed to be fixed months ago).When decent and unreliable is forced to compete with extremely reliable and skillless gameplay is when you have a problem.Once all the r*tard proof aspects of PvP and bugs get fixed then we can make an accurate assessment on where the class stands - in the current state of PvP GWF is a niche burst support or troll tank and isn't in any way spectacular at either of those roles.
How to balance PvP - make slight tweaks to different classes at the same time,have a test period to gather data on how they impact the different matchups and if more tweaks are needed act accordingly.
How to not balance PvP - carpet bomb everything good about *OP* classes, buff everything deemed bad on *UP* classes while mass reworking some if not all of them.
GWF Module 3 had 3 problems - too high damage scaling for how fast you could get to full stacks(even though that came with the drawback of using GPF and giving enemy HRs and CWs procs on their defensive feats/set healing),too long cc duration on Roar and unlimited rush spam not allowing much counterplay vs a GWF in unstoppable.Instead of tweaking those 3 aspects they completely gutted everything good about the class(besides the spike damage) and gave it one redeeming quality in the form of CC immunity on sprint which,while it does finally allow for some outplay potential different to *i roar ur face so u can't hit me brah*, really offers nothing versus all the easy mode point and click unresistable and/or proc damage and cc flying your way constantly and probably from range.
GWF is also the only class in the game that has access to skill based cc in the form of Roar and Frontline and is actually FORCED to use it to be viable.And at the moment one of those skills is a waste of power points and the other does nothing vs high resist classes or deflect and comes with a huge cooldown and low damage for extra flavour.
The class itself is decent to good,but all the bugs with stuns make it unreliable(seriously,those were supposed to be fixed months ago).When decent and unreliable is forced to compete with extremely reliable and skillless gameplay is when you have a problem.Once all the r*tard proof aspects of PvP and bugs get fixed then we can make an accurate assessment on where the class stands - in the current state of PvP GWF is a niche burst support or troll tank and isn't in any way spectacular at either of those roles.
How to balance PvP - make slight tweaks to different classes at the same time,have a test period to gather data on how they impact the different matchups and if more tweaks are needed act accordingly.
How to not balance PvP - carpet bomb everything good about *OP* classes, buff everything deemed bad on *UP* classes while mass reworking some if not all of them.
GWF Module 3 had 3 problems - too high damage scaling for how fast you could get to full stacks(even though that came with the drawback of using GPF and giving enemy HRs and CWs procs on their defensive feats/set healing),too long cc duration on Roar and unlimited rush spam not allowing much counterplay vs a GWF in unstoppable.Instead of tweaking those 3 aspects they completely gutted everything good about the class(besides the spike damage) and gave it one redeeming quality in the form of CC immunity on sprint which,while it does finally allow for some outplay potential different to *i roar ur face so u can't hit me brah*, really offers nothing versus all the easy mode point and click unresistable and/or proc damage and cc flying your way constantly and probably from range.
GWF is also the only class in the game that has access to skill based cc in the form of Roar and Frontline and is actually FORCED to use it to be viable.And at the moment one of those skills is a waste of power points and the other does nothing vs high resist classes or deflect and comes with a huge cooldown and low damage for extra flavour.
The class itself is decent to good,but all the bugs with stuns make it unreliable(seriously,those were supposed to be fixed months ago).When decent and unreliable is forced to compete with extremely reliable and skillless gameplay is when you have a problem.Once all the r*tard proof aspects of PvP and bugs get fixed then we can make an accurate assessment on where the class stands - in the current state of PvP GWF is a niche burst support or troll tank and isn't in any way spectacular at either of those roles.
Indeed, pretty much. With some skill btw you can compete, untill some broken/ bugged cheesy thing kills you with no room to counter it. What amazes me is how devs 'reworked' gwfs saying
- it needed to be more proactive
- defense/ deflect ignoring DPS due to prones was not good.
Then gave to other classes unresistable damage, passive DPS, skill-less gameplay, and added <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> glyphs for more passive and unresistable DPS.
...all the while the grand majority of us who are neither cws nor gwfs are laughing at the both of them blaming each other as the culprit for broken balance.
I still remember the shi*burger of a broken op <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> thst was the mod2 gwf . . . As well as the roar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gwf b4 the fix
Talk about the kettle calling the pot blsck.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
i just sprint to the other side of the map, grab a potion
I guess you're a troll whose aim is actually to exemplify how gwfs have a hard time in pvp. But just in case, the HP potions don't work in pvp. Also a Melee class will, by definition, never outrange a ranged class.
Where you're true is when saying that the devs failed to create a decent gwf, and failed again when giving him IV, which belongs to GF.
Please no prones, take them all out even from the rest of characters encounters, they are ok in the dailies only.
I really hated pvp when my CW couldn't take one on one GWF with even much smaller GS than mine, as they just kept my CW prone until dead without anything for me to do but watch.
Now I kinda hate how the better SWs are doing the same for my GWF, half health lost when trying to run to them, then keeping me prone until dead or if I get chance to run, the lingering effects will finish me off and not even Waters of Elah'zad can stop that...
Give us 4 or more power/item bar profiles so we can change powers and items with one click that are suited for the situation.
...all the while the grand majority of us who are neither cws nor gwfs are laughing at the both of them blaming each other as the culprit for broken balance.
I still remember the shi*burger of a broken op <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> thst was the mod2 gwf . . . As well as the roar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gwf b4 the fix
Talk about the kettle calling the pot blsck.
GWFs got balance issues in the past but it's not the only class to have such issues and, more of all, it's quite laughable that after all the fixes and nerfs people still QQ, now about sprint.
Suggestion given: remove CC immunity from sprint.
Result: GWF takes unavoidable long CC and high DPS bursts due to DPS buffs CWs, HRs and GFs got, plus SWs monster DPS. After losing a big portion of his HPs, the GWF can go big and red, perhaps time its unstoppable and use it when he reaches the enemy to build stacks but still have to get through the enemy dodges. In the meanwhile, the enemy is untouched. When the GWF reaches the enemy, must land a low DPS ranged stun (FLS) and a medium/ low DPS melee stun to eventually land the real high DPS move (IBS) which can be still deflected or dodged since TRs and HRs often get out of CC in a split second (bug or WAI, it happens a lot. You get them, they get full damage, stop moving for like half a second, and then dodge again). Also, while sprinting can still get RoF freeze and SS procs.
So according to this thread every class, melee included, must have a CC/ damage immunity move and abilities, except GWF. Said GWF must also not get too cocky and have his chance of attacking only after losing 40-50% of his HPs and being fully CCed with no way to avoid it.
HP loss to activate a full Unstoppable is referring to a 40-43k HP GWF. BiS ones can get up to 50k+ but not everyone can get a plated band of constitution and rank 10s, while CC, passive DPS and such are available to other classes at any gear level.
What people want is a punching bag to freely CC and DPS, then kite a bit (but with not too much gap closing capability so people don't have to move too much, just some dodge here and there) for 4-8 seconds, then finish off.
As i explained, even with all boons and stuff, battle fury and destro feat, a GWF cannot sprint non stop. Else, he would run out of sprint and become vulnerable for about 10 seconds. Also, the GWF must stop sprinting to attack.
Which means the GWF, like a blocking GF or a TR, have "windows" of vulnerability that the enemy must use to catch him, CC and DPS.
Also, a GWF using BF loses 1 DPS encounter and must go pretty much for takedown. And if you find hard to dodge/ defend against a GWF using takedown to open his rotation, then you're a bad player. Cause it's a melee move and requires anticipation, timing and skills to land it on a good dodger.
is considered a "BiS" GWF. Against a "BiS" TR. Does not look OP and only may be 1% of GWFs in game have such gear, HP and regenerative power to tank that much.
That is quite a funny vid to be honest. The GWF is fully potted and the TR is not, and he's also not very experienced, compared to the other 2 TRs standing near him at least. It looks to me that the GWF could have won quite easily yet he gave up out of boredom sort of. Fighting good TRs with B&S is boring as hell and nearly made my HR fall asleep in the previous module. Remember one premade where it took me exactly an hour to kill the TR. Felt as good as killing an entire army single-handed.
Just no. Let me suit you up in something similar to what GWFs wear in this game and then try to sprint away. You won't get very far :P Why the devs felt that GWF should have the best mobility in the game is beyond me when in fact they should be cumbersome as hell especially with those Eiffel Towers they are swinging around as swords.
maybe, but irl if you got hit by a sword that size 1 time you would be dead, and you could also block with a sword
also remove respawns and add permadeath, irl you dont respawn when you die, and there is no magic nor dragons irl so remove that as well
Comments
I'd look forward for this change too.
I agree with the HR, however that is a combat spec. And if they spec for Archery, Boars Charge does little to no damage.
SW has little to no CC. And their Prone is quite hard to get off. A two part cast - with both the initial DoT and then the prone animation being quite easy to dodge.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Then increase the damage of FLS, takedown and roar. Nerfing both CC powers and damage was uncalled for.
I would argue that you got a CC buff - With having the amount of Stun Duration you have now.
Instead of getting Easymode bypassing Deflect and gaining automatic combat advatage, you now need to position yourself to gain those benefits.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
GWF need hard nerf! Remove cc resist and dr from sprint and tone down the damage. FS has the range of a ranged class. Range should be 1/4 of what it is now.
You do realize that the range is 30 right? Ranged classes have a range of 80 usually (or at least over 60). The normal range of a GWF attack is 13 (about there, haven't checked recently) so if its 1/4 of the range, then its literally half of the range of the normal GWF range for their attacks.
GWF does not need another nerf on top of how it sits at the moment. I don't play the class, so I cannot comment on what needs to happen for it to be functioning in the current meta.
However, alot of its problems lie in how Piercing Blade and Glyphs currently melt them. I feel that if both Piercing Blade and the Glyphs (All of the glyphs) had an ICD and were affected by DR and Deflect (And Piercing really needs to be affected by DR as well, it's crazy how good it is at the moment.) that metawise, GWFs would be in a good spot again. Not back to your Mod 3 Glory days, but filling their own Niche in the meta.
Likewise with the GF reflect built. Should Glyphs obey DR and Deflect, have an ICD and KV not be granting as much AP generation as it currently does (Seriously, back to back dailies guys?), that GFs will be in a good spot as well.
19.9k PvP Control Wizard
<Complaints Department>
Ive given up and gone back to PVE as gwfs are frankly outclassed by almost everything else now.
lol wat.
you obviously are not playing as a gwf, they are not god mode.
And if you are getting killed by them your not playing properly either.
They are EASY to melt and even easier to dodge.
How to not balance PvP - carpet bomb everything good about *OP* classes, buff everything deemed bad on *UP* classes while mass reworking some if not all of them.
GWF Module 3 had 3 problems - too high damage scaling for how fast you could get to full stacks(even though that came with the drawback of using GPF and giving enemy HRs and CWs procs on their defensive feats/set healing),too long cc duration on Roar and unlimited rush spam not allowing much counterplay vs a GWF in unstoppable.Instead of tweaking those 3 aspects they completely gutted everything good about the class(besides the spike damage) and gave it one redeeming quality in the form of CC immunity on sprint which,while it does finally allow for some outplay potential different to *i roar ur face so u can't hit me brah*, really offers nothing versus all the easy mode point and click unresistable and/or proc damage and cc flying your way constantly and probably from range.
GWF is also the only class in the game that has access to skill based cc in the form of Roar and Frontline and is actually FORCED to use it to be viable.And at the moment one of those skills is a waste of power points and the other does nothing vs high resist classes or deflect and comes with a huge cooldown and low damage for extra flavour.
The class itself is decent to good,but all the bugs with stuns make it unreliable(seriously,those were supposed to be fixed months ago).When decent and unreliable is forced to compete with extremely reliable and skillless gameplay is when you have a problem.Once all the r*tard proof aspects of PvP and bugs get fixed then we can make an accurate assessment on where the class stands - in the current state of PvP GWF is a niche burst support or troll tank and isn't in any way spectacular at either of those roles.
Well said. Couldn't agree more.
Indeed, pretty much. With some skill btw you can compete, untill some broken/ bugged cheesy thing kills you with no room to counter it. What amazes me is how devs 'reworked' gwfs saying
- it needed to be more proactive
- defense/ deflect ignoring DPS due to prones was not good.
Then gave to other classes unresistable damage, passive DPS, skill-less gameplay, and added <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> glyphs for more passive and unresistable DPS.
I still remember the shi*burger of a broken op <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> thst was the mod2 gwf . . . As well as the roar <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gwf b4 the fix
Talk about the kettle calling the pot blsck.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I guess you're a troll whose aim is actually to exemplify how gwfs have a hard time in pvp. But just in case, the HP potions don't work in pvp. Also a Melee class will, by definition, never outrange a ranged class.
Where you're true is when saying that the devs failed to create a decent gwf, and failed again when giving him IV, which belongs to GF.
I don't even...
I really hated pvp when my CW couldn't take one on one GWF with even much smaller GS than mine, as they just kept my CW prone until dead without anything for me to do but watch.
Now I kinda hate how the better SWs are doing the same for my GWF, half health lost when trying to run to them, then keeping me prone until dead or if I get chance to run, the lingering effects will finish me off and not even Waters of Elah'zad can stop that...
GWFs got balance issues in the past but it's not the only class to have such issues and, more of all, it's quite laughable that after all the fixes and nerfs people still QQ, now about sprint.
Suggestion given: remove CC immunity from sprint.
Result: GWF takes unavoidable long CC and high DPS bursts due to DPS buffs CWs, HRs and GFs got, plus SWs monster DPS. After losing a big portion of his HPs, the GWF can go big and red, perhaps time its unstoppable and use it when he reaches the enemy to build stacks but still have to get through the enemy dodges. In the meanwhile, the enemy is untouched. When the GWF reaches the enemy, must land a low DPS ranged stun (FLS) and a medium/ low DPS melee stun to eventually land the real high DPS move (IBS) which can be still deflected or dodged since TRs and HRs often get out of CC in a split second (bug or WAI, it happens a lot. You get them, they get full damage, stop moving for like half a second, and then dodge again). Also, while sprinting can still get RoF freeze and SS procs.
So according to this thread every class, melee included, must have a CC/ damage immunity move and abilities, except GWF. Said GWF must also not get too cocky and have his chance of attacking only after losing 40-50% of his HPs and being fully CCed with no way to avoid it.
HP loss to activate a full Unstoppable is referring to a 40-43k HP GWF. BiS ones can get up to 50k+ but not everyone can get a plated band of constitution and rank 10s, while CC, passive DPS and such are available to other classes at any gear level.
What people want is a punching bag to freely CC and DPS, then kite a bit (but with not too much gap closing capability so people don't have to move too much, just some dodge here and there) for 4-8 seconds, then finish off.
As i explained, even with all boons and stuff, battle fury and destro feat, a GWF cannot sprint non stop. Else, he would run out of sprint and become vulnerable for about 10 seconds. Also, the GWF must stop sprinting to attack.
Which means the GWF, like a blocking GF or a TR, have "windows" of vulnerability that the enemy must use to catch him, CC and DPS.
Also, a GWF using BF loses 1 DPS encounter and must go pretty much for takedown. And if you find hard to dodge/ defend against a GWF using takedown to open his rotation, then you're a bad player. Cause it's a melee move and requires anticipation, timing and skills to land it on a good dodger.
This
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sLcbLeVGYI
is considered a "BiS" GWF. Against a "BiS" TR. Does not look OP and only may be 1% of GWFs in game have such gear, HP and regenerative power to tank that much.
That is quite a funny vid to be honest. The GWF is fully potted and the TR is not, and he's also not very experienced, compared to the other 2 TRs standing near him at least. It looks to me that the GWF could have won quite easily yet he gave up out of boredom sort of. Fighting good TRs with B&S is boring as hell and nearly made my HR fall asleep in the previous module. Remember one premade where it took me exactly an hour to kill the TR. Felt as good as killing an entire army single-handed.
maybe, but irl if you got hit by a sword that size 1 time you would be dead, and you could also block with a sword
also remove respawns and add permadeath, irl you dont respawn when you die, and there is no magic nor dragons irl so remove that as well
-violation of rule 3.15
-filter evasion
-PVP drama/trash talk
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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