Did they give us better rewards without telling us?

bardaaron · September 2014

In the past couple weeks, I have been finding blue items drop in foundries off of mobs. I'd never seen that happen before. So far the end loot is still a (probably useless) green, but blue loot drops seem new to the foundry.

Also, I've leveled up a couple times upon completing the quest; not only on defeating the mobs, but on opening the end chest. Could this mean we are actually getting some XP for completing the quest, as opposed to only for killing mobs? I've leveled up in foundry by killing mobs before, so I know they don't hold XP until the end.

Did they give us better rewards, or have these always been around, and for a long time I got only greens out of bad luck?

iandarksword · September 2014

My live runs would net me about 3-4, but as many as 8 blue items total from my own quest. They tend to drop from standard or hard encounters. I didn't plan this, but it's been pretty consistent. The end chest has always been a green item. I haven't been keeping tabs on experience to be able to see when it accumulates. Usually my blue gear goes to the AH, as my 3 characters are T2 geared.

charononus · September 2014

As far as the XP I think you stop getting it if you kill things too quickly, it's why I never get xp from foundries with my toons.

grimah · September 2014

depends on what level you are, at higher levels, and 60 blues drop alot.

If that is not the case, well someone reported they are getting alot more green + blues everywhere. Though i haven't really noticed much difference.

eldarth · September 2014

I've gotten blues on occassion, but somewhat rarely -- maybe somewhere around a 2%-5% chance?
Maybe once or twice with a fairly high (40+) level character?

karranor · September 2014

More incentives to get players into our Foundry quests would be great. I know its a strange balance but there are far too many awesome Foundry quests that barely get touched.

bardaaron · September 2014

Well, I've gotten blues a few times with by lvl 19 author character on testing, and a handful of times on my lvl 47 CW. I never got any before a few weeks ago. At present I seem to be averaging 1 blue per run. End chest is always green. Maybe level has a factor, though, with a greater chance the higher you go. I don't know why I wouldn't have found any blues before now though, besides sheer bad luck.

As to XP; I don't keep close track of the XP I gain and when, but I do make a mental note of when I level up, and I have leveled at both defeating an encounter in the middle of a quest, AND at the end, upon opening the chest. This tells me we are getting at least SOME XP for actually completing the quest, not just for killing mobs, unless they are just diverting some of the XP to the end as some sort of stealth incentive to actually finish the quest?

beckylunatic · September 2014

End chest is always green, but I find that mobs in foundry drop similar loot to mobs out of foundry. So if it's minion type mobs, it's all green items and copper and event drops if they qualify. Champion monsters expand their loot table to include blue gear, potions, and scrolls.

I'm not sure how much people tend to shy away from using elite type spawns in order to avoid making their quests too hard for all classes and levels, but if you use none, then your mobs will drop nothing but greens.

In the regular game, I would say that it feels like blue gear drops randomly more often as you get higher in level, but that's hard to verify.

bardaaron · September 2014

My author character was the first to get blues on a foundry (my own which I was testing), but since then, I have gotten blues fairly consistently with my CW. I haven't tried using my HR for a while, but I am guessing it would be the the same. My author character is currently lvl 19, & started getting them at lvl 18; but my CW didn't start getting them until the lvl 40s (after the author started getting them). It seems odd that I wouldn't have gotten any blues in the interrim if they were giving them out at the same rate at earlier levels.

zshikara · September 2014

It seems to me that the increased green item drop rate (and to some extent blue ones as well) are everywhere now. I don't think this is limited to the foundry.

dragoness10 · September 2014

Increased drop rate is everywhere as I believe the loot tables would run universally through the server, and instances of Foundry go through the server of course.

It has helped stop a lot of those "Hey I need 2 gold for a horse" shouts in PE.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

As far as I can tell, they have changed nothing except that you get stackable vendor loot instead of so many greens. I have considered foundries a prime source of blue loot since Sharandar was released. I'm still getting tons of blues, which I post to the AH before I even raid the chest. The greens get deleted since devs decided I have to go see some bozo to sell them, instead of selling to the bizarre lady. (Deliberate- supposed to make ya grin.)

The loot and xp get cut off if you fill a block within 3 minutes or something like that. It is quite easy to pace, once you realize what it is doing. It is just another half measure put in place that annoys but doesn't actually fix anything. I still see it happen once in awhile.. it is a moronic fix to an imaginary problem. Mostly generated by self-infatuated foundry authors crying that someone 'is getting more than me.' Which is why I am incredibly apathetic toward the foundry. XD

I distinctly remember when Sharandar Mod was released.. getting all these blues from foundries.. and trying to give them to my guild mates, because they were too good to dump on a vendor.

zahinder · September 2014

Chaoscourtesan, if Cryptic listened to 'self-infatuated foundry authors,' they might have added ANY of the features authors have been requesting or bugs reported since _beta_.

Your conspiracy theory is silly. MMO companies hate perceived exploits.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

Hate to burst your bubble, but you can search yourself. There was a great outcry from authors (most of whom aren't even here anymore,) over 'XP' farms, it was acknowledged, and a fix was applied. It was just the wrong fix. So running a perfectly legit foundry such as Nightmare on.. Whatever street... cant remember the street name.. I get cut off on XP and drops about 1/3 of the way through... for doing well.

Trying to label it a 'conspiracy theory' is giggles.. Thanks for the laughs. No conspiracy. Complaint, decision, action. It happened, it's documented, and that is all. (It starts here. There are a gazillion threads about it after that.)

But you don't have to read it. Fill a couple of XP blocks in less than 10 minutes in a foundry... see if you get ONE MORE DROP or one more tick of XP. Quite easy to test and prove. Much easier than typing nonsense.

Edit- aaah.. I reviewed your posts. I see what is going on.. You decided to attack me because you are not content with the Foundry or the Game Masters.. Nothing to see.. moving on.

charononus · September 2014

zahinder wrote: »

Chaoscourtesan, if Cryptic listened to 'self-infatuated foundry authors,' they might have added ANY of the features authors have been requesting or bugs reported since _beta_.

Your conspiracy theory is silly. MMO companies hate perceived exploits.

Actually there was a big outcry about the foundry. While the maps that offered zero risk because of trapped monsters were an issue, killing hordes of monsters was not. If I wanted to kill 50 hulks over and over again there is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to. (Don't really want to, it would be soul numbing.) However because of the outcry that it wasn't a story the whole foundry was nerfed into uselessness. Now there is barely a reason to run a farming foundry and no reason to ever run a story foundry as you can advance your character better in another level 60 zone. This is the foundry crying for nerfs gets you.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

Thank you for speaking up Charononus.

The whole point of my original post was that NON-Farming foundries took a hit as well. Anyone who did half decent dps and wasn't about the business of dying, noticed it. Back then I ran foundries for fun.. every day. Now I just want my 8K from Protector and 4K from the kobold and then I go do other dailies, and then my other dailies as quick as I can because then I have to go do my other dailies.

zahinder · September 2014

I was there. Your interpretation of events is self-serving and flawed.

That they chose to act on this particular issue had nothing to do with the fact authors were commenting on it. Evidence? Their lack of acting on ANYTHING ELSE authors have universally requested or called for.

Plus, you will note that they went with a solution that was not requested by authors at all. The authoring community came up with a bunch of ideas to help improve things. Instead, Cryptic took the laziest way out and just nerfed all rewards.

That was not what the authors were asking for.

Again, evidence that correlation does not show causation.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

zahinder wrote: »

I was there.

Hmm.. you were awful quiet.

zahinder wrote: »

Your interpretation of events is self-serving and flawed.
That they chose to act on this particular issue had nothing to do with the fact authors were commenting on it. Evidence? Their lack of acting on ANYTHING ELSE authors have universally requested or called for.

And you toss the phrase 'conspiracy theory' in my direction?

zahinder wrote: »

Plus, you will note that they went with a solution that was not requested by authors at all. The authoring community came up with a bunch of ideas to help improve things. Instead, Cryptic took the laziest way out and just nerfed all rewards.

That was not what the authors were asking for.

Again, evidence that correlation does not show causation.

Yes, that is what I said before you decided to bash your head into pudding on my hull. Except that you are right, that is not what authors were asking for. They were asking for deletions and bans. Which is even worse.
I will not even consider viewing the art of one who seeks to limit someone else's art. Which was my secondary point.

The issue was that people should want those things. That issue was ignored, and the players were punished, which was my primary point.

Done talking to you, you are looking for argument un-necessarily. You are picking fights where there should have been solidarity. See ya 'round.

grimah · September 2014

charononus wrote: »

Actually there was a big outcry about the foundry. While the maps that offered zero risk because of trapped monsters were an issue, killing hordes of monsters was not. If I wanted to kill 50 hulks over and over again there is no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to. (Don't really want to, it would be soul numbing.) However because of the outcry that it wasn't a story the whole foundry was nerfed into uselessness. Now there is barely a reason to run a farming foundry and no reason to ever run a story foundry as you can advance your character better in another level 60 zone. This is the foundry crying for nerfs gets you.

This is not the author's fault, its just the way they "fix" things. e.g. all the nerfs you see to classes, and balances are real hodge-podge nerfs, like the recent chill change to CW when they should have just applied it to the stun itself. Alot of these fixes are too rough and rushed (easiest way)

XP from foundry got capped because it was so easy to exploit leveling toons. And there is a reason why you shouldn't be allowed to kill 50 hulks over and over again, it's because they don't want you to level up like that. Otherwise they would have just had an NPC that gave you exp for pressing a prompt, and the reason why those XP books are bind to account (they give ALOT of exp i used 10 on my alt and gained 15-20 levels).

They should have just refine the cap system they have now so it doesnt lock players out. They did kinda fix this by making all featured quests have no exp cap.

grimah · September 2014

alot of authors despise farming foundrys because they take so little effort to make and get more plays. i can empathise but i also find this disdain for farming foundrys really misguided and ignorant. It's like hating someone because they like someone else's cooking more than yours.

Alot of authors (not all) do not understand that farming foundries and grind maps are what the majority of players want. Its an MMO and MMOs players are largely not here for the story and would guess only 1 in 20 people go and play foundry most likely less than that ( <5%)

What I'd rather have is a better way to sort all these quests out, so i can filter in just the farming ones, or story, campaign, whatever. But that requires way more work than a easy fix.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

grimah wrote: »

This is not the author's fault, its just the way they "fix" things. e.g. all the nerfs you see to classes, and balances are real hodge-podge nerfs, like the recent chill change to CW when they should have just applied it to the stun itself. Alot of these fixes are too rough and rushed (easiest way)

XP from foundry got capped because it was so easy to exploit leveling toons. And there is a reason why you shouldn't be allowed to kill 50 hulks over and over again, it's because they don't want you to level up like that. Otherwise they would have just had an NPC that gave you exp for pressing a prompt, and the reason why those XP books are bind to account (they give ALOT of exp i used 10 on my alt and gained 15-20 levels).

They should have just refine the cap system they have now so it doesnt lock players out. They did kinda fix this by making all featured quests have no exp cap.

I disagree with you, for what it's worth. (Nothing.)

It is the author's fault because A. They already knew this is how things are handled, and B. As usual, in all things, they asked for nerfs (Figurative) instead of buffs.

Apart from that..

The kill 3 million ogres quests still abound, and rightly so. Each fight is a valid combat which requires cognizant action and reaction. The ONLY thing that has been eliminated is pressing autorun for a minute between each encounter, and reading pages of typo'd or just sloppily phrased text to get to the next step.

There are some really artful foundries, and it is a pleasure when I accidentally discover one. But most of them are garbage, because fools can't be bothered to type the text into word and click spell checker before adding it. Or ask their mom or 16 year old kid to proof it for them.

The kill pits were an obvious problem. Same with repelling 200 ogres off a cliff. Those authors should have been temp-banned, and a public notice should have been made that '478 authors have now been temp-banned for making exploit foundries.'

But if I do the work, I want the pay. Plain and simple. If you got problems, fix them (I don't mean YOU..) but don't touch my paycheck. Give me new orders if I am barking up the wrong tree. But do NOT touch my paycheck. I will bite you.

eldarth · September 2014

grimah wrote: »

Alot of authors (not all) do not understand that farming foundries and grind maps are what the majority of players want. Its an MMO and MMOs players are largely not here for the story and would guess only 1 in 20 people go and play foundry most likely less than that ( <5%)

What I'd rather have is a better way to sort all these quests out, so i can filter in just the farming ones, or story, campaign, whatever. But that requires way more work than a easy fix.

Which is exactly why I was constantly exhorting panderus to give us "farming" as a review tag -- AND allow authors to set initial tags. Farmers are gonna farm and enablers are gonna enable. Cryptic chose instead to bury it's head in the sand. And that has worked oh so well.

charononus · September 2014

eldarth wrote: »

Which is exactly why I was constantly exhorting panderus to give us "farming" as a review tag -- AND allow authors to set initial tags. Farmers are gonna farm and enablers are gonna enable. Cryptic chose instead to bury it's head in the sand. And that has worked oh so well.

And this is what will always happen when the peasants (us the players) get up in arms and request nerfs. Anytime you ask for a nerf you are probably going to end up making the game worse, because the developers in 99% of games will overreact.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

eldarth wrote: »

Which is exactly why I was constantly exhorting panderus to give us "farming" as a review tag -- AND allow authors to set initial tags. Farmers are gonna farm and enablers are gonna enable. Cryptic chose instead to bury it's head in the sand. And that has worked oh so well.

Exactly.. Why do people not get it?

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

charononus wrote: »

And this is what will always happen when the peasants (us the players) get up in arms and request nerfs. Anytime you ask for a nerf you are probably going to end up making the game worse, because the developers in 99% of games will overreact.

And again. Address the issues and ignore the hysteria. That is how you get things done.

bardaaron · September 2014

I really had no intention of starting an argument. I just noticed I was getting better rewards than I used to, and wondered if that was due to an increase on Cryptic's part or not. Apparently it's not. I'd rather not see this turn into a flame war.

chaoscourtesan · September 2014

Apologies.

zahinder · September 2014

chaoscourtesan wrote: »

It is the author's fault because A. They already knew this is how things are handled, and B. As usual, in all things, they asked for nerfs (Figurative) instead of buffs.

Is this the part where you are seeking solidarity?

And, yeah, you are just flat-out wrong.

The authors have been frequently requesting:
Better rewards
Banning farms
Banning people who make farms
Skill nodes appearing either placed or randomly or something
Chests appearing in the quest. Maybe placed with random treasure based on pacing
Scaling rewards based on average playtime, so authors don't face the impossible task of trying to make a mission that everyone will play in 15-20 minutes
Boss battles
Timers
Logical operators

What did Cryptic do?
Nerfed all rewards.

So, tell me, which is more likely?
A) Cryptic doesn't want to feel like their content/experience is trivialized, but is also very lazy, so they took the easy 'fix' of neutering Foundry rather than actually coming up with a real solution
or

Cryptic is vigilant in defending the interests of the handful of authors who wanted one thing to keep them happy, but believes every other author and their customer base is worth ignoring.

(For the record, I don't blame Cryptic so much as PW and the difficulty of assigning a value to a diffuse game benefit like Foundry content)

Did they give us better rewards without telling us?

Comments