I recently got into the game and reached level 60. However, as this progress was very rapid I found myself reflecting and not satisfied with my choice of origin and deity. It is great that I am able to change anything else about my character, including race. But why are origin and deity not available to be changed? Has there ever been any development statement about being able to alter these things?
I'm a bit apprehensive to continue playing a character I don't completely enjoy. Origin and deity (at this point) are fully cosmetic and have no impact on gameplay. However, so does character appearance, which can be changed. I have already committed measurable effort into this character and have very limited desire to start over.
I agree, origin and deity should be changable. After all, sometimes a person changes religion after some life altering events.
Also, I'm going to be a dragonborn who worships Corellon cause I used to be a Drow. I've made it work by fiddling with my backstory and fitting it in, but its still weird. I would love to be able to change it, even if it cost a few bucks to do.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Tell me about it, my chaotic neutral wayward rogue somehow managed to worship Torm
I poorly got around it by adding this to his Bio; Although he seemed to have pledged his loyalty to Torm, he insists that he was drunk at the time and that he cares little for law or gods alike.
Ha, yeah, I agree. My character was originally a drow, so I chose the Northdark Exile background, which stats that she didn't fit in with the Underdark, and was exiled to the surface. But now that she's a Dragonborn, that doesn't make any sense anymore. I think it's something only I can see, but as a storyweaver/rp'er, it bugs me nonetheless.
I have zero interest in purchasing the Dragonborn Legend Pack until I am also able to change my character's background and religion. I don't know how this got overlooked when the race change token was created.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited September 2014
I do feel that the Race Reroll token should have included this. This should be fixed/added to the Race Reroll and when it is, all the characters that used this token should get another free race reroll that allows this or a special token that allows just this. My dragonborn is now stuck worshiping Corellon, which all in all is okay I guess, but really - his homeland being Myth Drannor is quite peculiar and not what I would like to have been following a race reroll.
I'd also like to see a separate way to change both Deity and Homeland.
I kind of wish there would be a mechanical difference between each of the religions.
Maybe 1-2 religion-based quests during leveling, similar to the racial ones.
Or ... SOMETHING ... to distinguish between them.
I kind of wish there would be a mechanical difference between each of the religions.
Maybe 1-2 religion-based quests during leveling, similar to the racial ones.
Or ... SOMETHING ... to distinguish between them.
Even something basic like what buffs you can gain when you pray would at least make you have to think about what deity to choose , also OP yes it is weird they didn't let us reroll deity and origin.
why the game forces me to believe to in some imaginary friend, why cant i invoke to myself ?
Because Ur-Priest is not an allowed class.
I wasted five million AD promoting the Foundry.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited September 2014
There is no advantage to a particular deity or country of origin.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2014
Honestly I am against changes like origins or deities. Your char was born with an origin and has to live with it. Thats why character creation is - and should be - an important process. Ok, professions and names can be changed in principle afterwards, but the origin never.
why the game forces me to believe to in some imaginary friend, why cant i invoke to myself ?
If your char is not actively worshiping a god, then you can imagine that it is some sort of birthsign everyone has (this may not be completely consistent with DnD, but in a different PnP I played this would be the case.)
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
in D&D afaik its free choice. there are powerful beings some call gods but thats it. theres no denial they are powerful, but are they powerful enough to be gods, or why should i worship them
so changing them or worshiping 1 on monday and next one on tuesday or none at all is ok
Paladin Master Race
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited September 2014
As was mentioned, if you don't worship the Gods you will be stuck in the Wall Of Faithlessness forever.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited September 2014
The Forgotten Realms revolves around the actions and inaction of the Gods and the Mortals that worship and interact with them. Even the Faithless and the False in the Realms often find themselves involved in divine business, whether directly or indirectly.
IIRC in Forgotten Realms lore anyone who dies without worshiping a god winds up stuck in a wall until they fade into oblivion. Or something like that.
When Kelemvor took over, he transformed the plane Hades into The Gray Waste and then set about new laws of Judgement, which including tearing down the Wall of the Faithless and re-Judging all the souls in the Gray Waste (after finding he himself failed the Judgement process that his predecessors had in place). In 4e, the Wall is no more. The Faithless and the False will no longer find torture waiting for them but they will just as equally not find any joy at all either. The Faithless and False are now placed in specific areas throughout his City in the Gray Waste, depending on the results of their Judgement, to carry out duties set forth as decreed upon their final Judgement.
The Faithless are those who are Judged as having not chosen one god to worship above any others; do not follow any god at all; have had their Deity be permanently destroyed (quite rare) and did not convert to a new or changed faith; did not convert to a new God's doctrine that took over their original God's portfolio; or are atheists. The False are those who are Judged as having pretended to follow a god for their own devious reasons or betrayed their chosen God.
in D&D afaik its free choice. there are powerful beings some call gods but thats it. theres no denial they are powerful, but are they powerful enough to be gods, or why should i worship them
so changing them or worshiping 1 on monday and next one on tuesday or none at all is ok
You would most likely then be Judged as either Faithless or False, most likely False as it sounds like you'd be changing Gods for your own benefit.
The last time a large number of mortals tried to defy the Gods and become Gods themselves (one Archmage known as Karsus in particular, acted upon such a notion with a devastating 12th level spell), Mystryl perished and was reincarnated into Mystra, destroying that entire Country in the process (Netheril) and cause the reshaping of the Laws of Magic. Like it or not, in the Realms, the Gods touch and are intertwined into every aspect of Realmspace, even the Faithless and the False.
When Kelemvor took over, he transformed the plane Hades into The Gray Waste and then set about new laws of Judgement, which including tearing down the Wall of the Faithless. In 4e, the Wall is no more. The Faithless and the False will no longer find torture waiting for them but they will just as equally not find any joy at all either. The Faithless and False are now placed in specific areas throughout his City in the Gray Waste, depending on the results of their Judgement, to carry out duties set forth as decreed upon their final Judgement.
The Faithless are those who are Judged as having not chosen one god to worship above any others; do not follow any god at all; have had their Deity be permanently destroyed (quite rare) and did not convert to a new or changed faith; did not convert to a new God's doctrine that took over their original God's portfolio; or are atheists. The False are those who are Judged as having pretended to follow a god for their own devious reasons or betrayed their chosen God.
Ah, thanks for that correction. Sadly I didn't keep up with the lore as much as I should after 4e. Sounds better than the wall I guess. Still pretty grim.
Halgarth's Legacy-NWS-DSTGFZHFR
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Ah, thanks for that correction. Sadly I didn't keep up with the lore as much as I should after 4e. Sounds better than the wall I guess. Still pretty grim.
Most welcome and no problem! I just finished fixing some typos and punctuation corrections, as well as elaborated a bit, so you may wish to review my post again.
You would most likely then be Judged as either Faithless or False, most likely False as it sounds like you'd be changing Gods for your own benefit.
The last time a large number of mortals tried to defy the Gods and become Gods themselves (one Archmage known as Karsus in particular, acted upon such a notion with a devastating 12th level spell), Mystryl perished and was reincarnated into Mystra, destroying that entire Country in the process (Netheril) and cause the reshaping of the Laws of Magic. Like it or not, in the Realms, the Gods touch and are intertwined into every aspect of Realmspace, even the Faithless and the False.
from 5e book - gods are important, but ppl worship different gods at different for example Sune for luck in love, Waukeen before going to market, many ppl have few favorite gods and a few chose single god. you can chose one, several or invoke whatever god is appropriate in current circumstances
but its a free choice, also pc in this game is immortal so death is nothing to be afraid of
This line kind of has me chuckling since the death of a deity in Forgotten Realms isn't all that rare.
True, normal deity "death" isn't that rare.As I said however, "permanent" is quite rare. Only a few of the gods you listed have met permanent destruction. Most of those you listed are able to, and some already have and some will be coming back. As well, a good number of those you listed are actually other aspects of existing gods that were wiped away with the Spellplage, forcing the god to show themselves for the god they really were.
When a God bound to the Realm's Crystal Sphere of influence "dies" and is not consumed by another god or outright destroyed, their essence is deposited somewhere in the infinite Astral Sea, where it must float in an inanimate state for no less than 100 years before it can be resurrected. After 100 years, all it takes for the deity to come back, even if as a demi-god, is one worshiper who truly believes in them.
Mystra is not truly a God. She is Magic, no more, no less. The only difference between Magic and Mystra is that Mystra is when Magic has become intelligent as a whole. This is why even Lord Ao fears her and forces her to endow mortals with her power.
Just to show you how your list is highly inaccurate "to show gods that have been permanently destroyed," here is a run down of some of the more famous ones from the Faerunian Pantheon and close regions:
Amaunator - Is alive and kicking right now. He was found to be hiding as Lathander.
Auppenser - Not dead. He is alive just has a very small, crippling amount of worshipers.
Bhaal - Not truly dead, his astral form floats in the Astral Sea.
Chronos - Is most likely hiding as another deity or floating in the Astral Sea. It was never said how he "died."
Earthmother - Is alive and is actually an aspect of Jannath, a.k.a. Chauntea the Earthmother.
Eshowdow- Is actually an aspect of Shar.
Ibrandul - Floats in the Astral Sea.
Iyachtu Xvim - Became his father Bane, when consumed by him.
Jazirian - Never proven to be dead, if he is, he floats in the Astral Sea.
Kalzareinad - Floats in the Astral Sea.
Karsus - Was never a god, but tried and came real close.
Kiputytto - Floats in the Astral Sea.
Kukul - Floats in the Astral Sea.
Leira - Her death has never been proven nor her Astral Form ever found.
Moander - Not truly dead, his astral form floats in the Astral Sea.
Murdane - Floats in the Astral Sea.
Myrkul - Not truly dead, his astral form floats in the Astral Sea.
Mystra - She has never "died," only went inanimate as she is magic given intelligence. She's back and intelligent again in 5th edition. In 4th, she exists only as "Blue Flame Items."
Mystryl - She has never "died," only went inanimate as she is magic given intelligence. She immediately became animate again as Mystra. Then she found a mortal vessel by the name of Midnight who she consumed and used to give herself full control of her essence, magic, again during the Time of the Troubles.
Othea - Floats in the Astral Sea.
Ra - Became Horus-Re when Horus gained Ra's powers.
Tyche - She split into two gods, Tymora and Besheba.
from 5e book - gods are important, but ppl worship different gods at different for example Sune for luck in love, Waukeen before going to market, many ppl have few favorite gods and a few chose single god. you can chose one, several or invoke whatever god is appropriate in current circumstances
but its a free choice, also pc in this game is immortal so death is nothing to be afraid of
That is true but if that person who worships more than one deity isn't found to hold one in higher belief and faith than any other, they will be Judged as either the Faithless (most likely) or the False upon their death. Even Elminster, a Chosen of Mystra, has been known to pay homage to other deities. This doesn't mean he is not a Faithful of Mystra, it just means he shows the other gods respect and homage.
If you notice, we never really "die" in Neverwinter Online and are instead, "Defeated." This means we don't die when we "die" but instead retreat in some form or fashion to a safe place. Death in Neverwinter would be akin to deleting your character.
Anywho or how, to get back on the core topic of the thread... this all boils down to even more reasons why we should have some sort of way to change our chosen Deity. The Homeland choice should probably be and only be a part of the Race Reroll Token however.
As well, we need the whole Forgotten Realms deity selection, or at least the whole Faerunian Pantheon to choose from, whether the god is "dead" or not. I'm suspecting this will be a major update further down the road as more Source Material for 5th Edition (D&D Next) is published. Right now, we only know of a handful of the Deities that remain or have returned or have "died" or been destroyed. This also includes the ability to not choose a patron deity.
Furthermore, our Deity Choice (or lack-there-of) needs to have some sort of in-game result and consequences. Whether that is a special ability, a strength and weakness, quest line, gear, and so on - or all of this and mayhaps more. The Gods of the Realms are one of the most important factors in the Forgotten Realms and Neverwinter Online, as an MMORPG, should reflect such just as PnP Source Material and even Novels do. Right now, Deities are nothing more than RP flavor with a few Events that are based upon them (not that I am complaining about the events).
Furthermore, our Deity Choice (or lack-there-of) needs to have some sort of in-game result and consequences. Whether that is a special ability, a strength and weakness, quest line, gear, and so on - or all of this and mayhaps more. The Gods of the Realms are one of the most important factors in the Forgotten Realms and Neverwinter Online, as an MMORPG, should reflect such just as PnP Source Material and even Novels do. Right now, Deities are nothing more than RP flavor with a few Events that are based upon them (not that I am complaining about the events).
While having our Deity choice matter would be very neat. I hope they hold off on that until they expand the ones available. I know the spellplague trimmed down the list considerably. But even with what is left the choices we have are pretty basic. Several players I know just chose a placeholder because what they wanted wasn't available. I also would hope that it doesn't become anything overly significant stat-wise. I would hate to feel required to follow a certain god for the biggest dps boost. Or whatever. If they can manage that, it sounds good.
Comments
Also, I'm going to be a dragonborn who worships Corellon cause I used to be a Drow. I've made it work by fiddling with my backstory and fitting it in, but its still weird. I would love to be able to change it, even if it cost a few bucks to do.
...
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Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
...
I poorly got around it by adding this to his Bio;
Although he seemed to have pledged his loyalty to Torm, he insists that he was drunk at the time and that he cares little for law or gods alike.
Flawless.
RainFeather- Dragonborn DC
Rune Fell- Drow CW
I'd also like to see a separate way to change both Deity and Homeland.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Maybe 1-2 religion-based quests during leveling, similar to the racial ones.
Or ... SOMETHING ... to distinguish between them.
Because the gods in the D&D universe are not imaginary? And they have very real manifestations in reality?
IIRC in Forgotten Realms lore anyone who dies without worshiping a god winds up stuck in a wall until they fade into oblivion. Or something like that.
what if i want to become a god, im already immortal so thats the 1st step ? and if i am a god and dont believe in myself its blasphemy
and i have lvl 20 leadership
Even something basic like what buffs you can gain when you pray would at least make you have to think about what deity to choose , also OP yes it is weird they didn't let us reroll deity and origin.
If your char is not actively worshiping a god, then you can imagine that it is some sort of birthsign everyone has (this may not be completely consistent with DnD, but in a different PnP I played this would be the case.)
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
so changing them or worshiping 1 on monday and next one on tuesday or none at all is ok
The Faithless are those who are Judged as having not chosen one god to worship above any others; do not follow any god at all; have had their Deity be permanently destroyed (quite rare) and did not convert to a new or changed faith; did not convert to a new God's doctrine that took over their original God's portfolio; or are atheists. The False are those who are Judged as having pretended to follow a god for their own devious reasons or betrayed their chosen God.
You would most likely then be Judged as either Faithless or False, most likely False as it sounds like you'd be changing Gods for your own benefit.
The last time a large number of mortals tried to defy the Gods and become Gods themselves (one Archmage known as Karsus in particular, acted upon such a notion with a devastating 12th level spell), Mystryl perished and was reincarnated into Mystra, destroying that entire Country in the process (Netheril) and cause the reshaping of the Laws of Magic. Like it or not, in the Realms, the Gods touch and are intertwined into every aspect of Realmspace, even the Faithless and the False.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Ah, thanks for that correction. Sadly I didn't keep up with the lore as much as I should after 4e. Sounds better than the wall I guess. Still pretty grim.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
from 5e book - gods are important, but ppl worship different gods at different for example Sune for luck in love, Waukeen before going to market, many ppl have few favorite gods and a few chose single god. you can chose one, several or invoke whatever god is appropriate in current circumstances
but its a free choice, also pc in this game is immortal so death is nothing to be afraid of
Example; list of dead FR Deities.
Untheric pantheon
Others
Honestly, seems every time an edition change occurs a god in FR dies. I wonder which ones have been destroyed this time.
When a God bound to the Realm's Crystal Sphere of influence "dies" and is not consumed by another god or outright destroyed, their essence is deposited somewhere in the infinite Astral Sea, where it must float in an inanimate state for no less than 100 years before it can be resurrected. After 100 years, all it takes for the deity to come back, even if as a demi-god, is one worshiper who truly believes in them.
Mystra is not truly a God. She is Magic, no more, no less. The only difference between Magic and Mystra is that Mystra is when Magic has become intelligent as a whole. This is why even Lord Ao fears her and forces her to endow mortals with her power.
Just to show you how your list is highly inaccurate "to show gods that have been permanently destroyed," here is a run down of some of the more famous ones from the Faerunian Pantheon and close regions:
That is true but if that person who worships more than one deity isn't found to hold one in higher belief and faith than any other, they will be Judged as either the Faithless (most likely) or the False upon their death. Even Elminster, a Chosen of Mystra, has been known to pay homage to other deities. This doesn't mean he is not a Faithful of Mystra, it just means he shows the other gods respect and homage.
If you notice, we never really "die" in Neverwinter Online and are instead, "Defeated." This means we don't die when we "die" but instead retreat in some form or fashion to a safe place. Death in Neverwinter would be akin to deleting your character.
Anywho or how, to get back on the core topic of the thread... this all boils down to even more reasons why we should have some sort of way to change our chosen Deity. The Homeland choice should probably be and only be a part of the Race Reroll Token however.
As well, we need the whole Forgotten Realms deity selection, or at least the whole Faerunian Pantheon to choose from, whether the god is "dead" or not. I'm suspecting this will be a major update further down the road as more Source Material for 5th Edition (D&D Next) is published. Right now, we only know of a handful of the Deities that remain or have returned or have "died" or been destroyed. This also includes the ability to not choose a patron deity.
Furthermore, our Deity Choice (or lack-there-of) needs to have some sort of in-game result and consequences. Whether that is a special ability, a strength and weakness, quest line, gear, and so on - or all of this and mayhaps more. The Gods of the Realms are one of the most important factors in the Forgotten Realms and Neverwinter Online, as an MMORPG, should reflect such just as PnP Source Material and even Novels do. Right now, Deities are nothing more than RP flavor with a few Events that are based upon them (not that I am complaining about the events).
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
While having our Deity choice matter would be very neat. I hope they hold off on that until they expand the ones available. I know the spellplague trimmed down the list considerably. But even with what is left the choices we have are pretty basic. Several players I know just chose a placeholder because what they wanted wasn't available. I also would hope that it doesn't become anything overly significant stat-wise. I would hate to feel required to follow a certain god for the biggest dps boost. Or whatever. If they can manage that, it sounds good.