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Why are epic dungeons GS so low
emt27
Member Posts: 36 Arc User
I think that the GS listed should be a target area you are looking to achieve prior to "q"ing for an event. If it show 9.6k, you should be able to take a team of five 9.6k gs characters and complete the dungeon (with difficulty)..
This is not the case, I am a new level 60 DC with a 10.6 gs and joined a pug requiring 9.6k gs... should be easy I thought.. infact I was one of the lower scores, with only 1 player 9.8 gs. I went through 25 healing potions, 8 injury kits, and many wasted hours trying to complete, but just left as I was being killed by 2 hits from a minor enemy (not a boss, but MINOR enemy). IMPOSSIBLE
This is not the case, I am a new level 60 DC with a 10.6 gs and joined a pug requiring 9.6k gs... should be easy I thought.. infact I was one of the lower scores, with only 1 player 9.8 gs. I went through 25 healing potions, 8 injury kits, and many wasted hours trying to complete, but just left as I was being killed by 2 hits from a minor enemy (not a boss, but MINOR enemy). IMPOSSIBLE
Say something relavant or hold your tongue
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Given that a set of full blue items is relatively cheap for all classes apart from SW, Ranks 4s drop like candy at level 60, and you can pick up blue gemmed shirts/pants for 10-20K each, no-one should be at less than 9.5K GS anyway and that is without boons.
However, the fact that most people simply rely on GS (and glitching) rather than teamwork and skill to do dungeons causes these issues.
Don't even get me started on CW's that use split DL, FI sets to achieve 17K+ GS. I'd take a 13K CW with a full set of HV any day over these clowns.
All dungeons are however possible to complete at intended GS if you have Greater armor/wep enchants and stuff such as HP stones etc.
All dungeons are possible to complete at intended GS by a team of voice-coordinated, experienced players that have completed it hundred times before, even without the above mentioned items.
Which dungeon were you trying to run though?
You can't compare then to now. The mechanics were a bit different.
The other issue with GS and how the dungeons are set up is that you will NOT be able to do the dungeons with the minimum GS without a proper build and rotation. I can out damage 15K CWs/GWFs etc on a 9K CW due to understanding how to set up a proper build and how to use a proper encounter rotation.
You can't exactly expect the majority of newcomers to the came to have an optimized build and understand a proper rotation. Thus, the issue with having such a low GS limit is it causes most of these folks to get frustrated as the dungeons feel impossible to them.
Maybe what they need to do is establish a higher GS minimum, UNLESS you have completed the dungeon on at least one character on your account.
We had some crazy players there, one had 14+ gs (others were high 12 and one 13 something) ... like I said, I was the 2nd to the lowest gear score..
I healed, buffed, any power that came available I hit... I dodged, ran, raised people, buffed some more, and then died... again and again.
I would think if a team is 3 points on averge above the gs, that it doesn't matter how you approach it, as long as you approach the group of enemies together it should be easy.. but again I am new, perhaps with some black ice stuff, epic companion, and 14+ gs I will be able to complete a dungeon run in an hour...
I would love to see you complete ToS with a minimum GS party. I don't believe you will have enough DPS to out damage her heals.
Sometimes you need to be very careful of these 14K+ GS players. Especially if they are pugging T2s. Most often they bought their gear and don't really know how to play their class or have a proper build. They often achieve these high GS's using split sets.
As a healer (it sounds like you are playing a DC), you want to get the T1 High Prophet set (for group play) for solo some folks prefer the Miracle Healer T2 set. That (High Prophet set) is tied with High Vizier (CW set) for best set in the game. It allows you to debuff the mobs increasing group damage by about 30% with the HP 4 piece bonus alone.
Nice... very helpful, thanks
I would do that as a challenge, for AD.
What actually counts is party comp and coordination.
My perfect vorpal will also help, and it's not counting towards GS. Add a p/terror, a GPF in the mix, and we suddenly have enough DPS
I think the whole point of such a challenge is to do it WITHOUT such extras as Perfect Enchants and non-GS boosting companions, so it is a fair representation of what a standard min GS player would have.
All you can do is worry about yourself in the end.
Class mechanics have changed even since Ive been here (pre mod2) and some exploits were also closed that were around for quite awhile.
Read through Kaelics Guide at <removed>, it will teach you everything you need to know about being a DC and then some.
At lower levels, concentrate on healing, Aseal, Forgemasters Flame, SB and Ashield, Buffing is more better later, when people no longer need your heals.
A dead dc is of no use either, get your defense up. 2k minimum.
Im serious though.. that guide, is the best in this game for a single class.
Dread Vault is the last dungeon in the game you want to enter. Just ignore it.
Yes you're right. It might still be possible, yet quite difficult. I wouldn't venture with at least a Lesser SF in such a challenge.
I was having a good laugh, when the warlocks came out and on the 2nd or 3rd day i saw players in full T2 set and with completely purple or even orange artifacts. LOL Fingers away from such a player, what did he do, bought the 2 power lvl items and the complete Dead Ring quest item and there you go and spent a half fortune on being with over 17K+ GS. Don't expect too much from these kind.
Personally i don't give a penny about GS, it's only a number for me, yes mixing gears and power skills, which give higher GS is an easy trick and of course some classes have better choices with this, DCs and CWs have to rely more on sets, while others can mix better, but it won't make a player better.
I have to agree what is written above, the minimum GS should be changed with some 2K+ requirement. I have never seen a 8300 GS player finish ToS or DV. Even some higher GS players have their problems with them, if they aren't a good skilled PUG party. It is so hard to say to fellow guildies or players, who are new to the game, that he or she shouldn't come to these dungeons, because he or she will surely fail, they get sad or angry at you, so most of the time i turn down such an offer, better to avoid some bad feelings.
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It is actually a bit more complicated. When you run with a really well-geared greoup (say, average GS of 15K+), nobody is going to want a DC for healing - where the DC really shines is in buffing/debuffing- We can in some circumstances increase the DPS of the other group members by close to 100% - of course, a DC focusing on buffing/debuffing will dever do much damage, but good groups understand that. To be able to give those massive buffs/debuffs, you need the following: High Prophet Armor set (T1 set - the best one for high-end content), Plaguefire or Terror weapon enchant, proper feats (see Kaelac's guide) and proper powers (Hallowed ground, Astral Shield and Divine Glow in particular). You may even want to select companions that help with buffing/debuffing, like the Rust monster.
Don't even think about DPS when in a group like that. However, when you are in a low-geared group (around 10K, for example), things are different - it may be more important to be able to keep the group alive, so in those circumstances you may need to focus on healing).
Also, when doing HEs, you want to maximize your healing, and that means different armour, weapon and powers - even different companions.
Finally when soloing, the HP set is just fine, but you would typically swap the Astral Shield out for Daunting Light.
For a better chance to survive for everyone , add to the default GS required, 4 or 5 or 6k :
5700 + 3.5k = 8.5k minimum GS each player should be fine
6800 + 4k = 10.5k minumum GS each player
8300 + 4.5k = 12.8k minimum GS each player
9200 + 5k = 14.2k minimum GS each player
10500 + 5.5k = 16k minimum GS each player
When i was at your GS ~10k i was doing lots of 5700. The 6800 very rarely after 12k, but never the 8300 until i reached 13k. You can do a test run but might be a fail.. Done many cloack towers, cragmire crypt runs ,sold or decomposed/salved gear , saved AD , bought a piece or 2 from AH of the wanted T1 set.
I have tried valindra (10500 required) at 13.5k as tanker but it was a fail ,not only because of me ,its because ppl in party may have lower gs than u in random party.
Now im at 14k ,working to upgrade, and i wont go to malabog 9200 or valindra 10500 to soon.The malabog 9200 dungeon is still locked for me. Ill stick with lower instances such as 6800 or 8300 and sell drops if any, save AD to buy a good enchant for a set piece and so on.
As you might see on zone chat in Enclave there are many requests to join to end game dungeons (valindra 10500) but only the "15++" are wanted.
I know its hard to make some gear but wanting higher lvl dungeons will make u use lots of consumables, brings lots of fails ,time wasted ,etc so u need to progress with small steps. Be patient and do lots of low epic runs.
Even if u save AD to buy gems or gear , later in time youll get drops to sell or salvage the unwanted bound and recover your money.
list of dungeons here http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Dungeon_Delve
As a cleric you should avoid the fight with mobs stay behind party and heal, u might get agro from healing but run around or move until someone will take care of that mob.
I prefer a healing cleric behind me, alive , better than a dead (attacker) kamikaze cleric ahead.
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Daily Foundry "Canyon of the Dead" ( NW-DBPJYKMRE ) - dungeon
Almost no one "cleared the dungeon" at that GS, 1 year ago, most groups glitched the dungeon or did run-to-campfire tricks, most of which have been fixed by now.
So much revisionist history...
That's WAY too much, there's no way you need 10k for t1 content,that's ridiculous, it's easily completed with a PUG of players around 8-9k GS.
Seriously, 12k gs is about what you get with avarage stones and a t2 set.Having the minimum gs requirment beeing the gear that you get from the dungeons you're trying to get it from is stuipid.. 10k is more than enough for most t2 dungeons.
You just can not compare a year ago to today. TRs could do actual damage. DCs could heal, even themselves, back then.
Did I mention the exploiting?
But there are other factors that make gear score non reflective. Lots of classes, (GWFs and HRs in particular) have gotten bloated Gear scores from boons, companions, and just crazy green/ blue gear. Going into tier 2 dungeons, malabog's, and valindra's is a bad idea if your rocking greens and blues (doesn't stop people at all). Armor and Weapon enchanments aren't figured into Gear score and those make a huge difference as well.
In ye olde days the Gear Score requirements were slightly more accurate as a lot of the gear score inflation hadn't come into effect, so the people going in were slightly more likely to at least maybe rocking a tier 1/partial tier1 set going into the tier 2+ dungeons.
And never go to Epic dread vault with out a good CW or two. The glut of thoon hulk adds in that dungeon is sadistic, especially at the brain boss where they are spawning endlessly.
Just how many people starting up the game, meeting the minimum GS and first entering a T2 dungeon do you know that are equipped with P Vorps and L Soulforged?
The whole point is to see if it can be done with the minimum requirements.
Personally, I don't think they properly balanced the dungeons. Yes an experienced group (that have proper builds and proper rotations) could handle some of the dungeons, but just what % of the just meeting the GS requirement game population does that represent?
Do you really want these folks entering these dungeons and walking away feeling like it was a complete waste of time?
LOL, lets just leave it at that. That dungeon is a complete waste of time.
Yes experience is important, but the problem with ToS and the first boss in Karrundex for a low GS group is that it is a DPS check. No amount of experience is going to overcome the fact that the boss in ToS heals faster than a group with a sub 9000 GS and no enchants can dish out. The same holds true for the first boss in Karrundex. While much more doable at 9K than ToS, I'd say it would take an extremely experienced group most likely with at least lesser enchants to take her out before all the adds get you or the tank if you are using one.
Done the first Karru boss like that when HR came out. Now most of us had lessers etc but we were in the 9-10 range, I can't remember the exact. One person burned the boss and the rest played with adds. It was brutal but doable. Remember that in theory a new player will have been running some t1's first so they should have farmed up enough for a lesser before attempting a t2.