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Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Official Discussion Thread

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  • edited July 2014
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  • edited July 2014
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  • jintortlejintortle Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Taking mine down for a few days. Someone has been running it and put the time up from 17-19 minutes to over 27 minutes - which would make it a very long map.

    Sabotage???

    It might be the Gond HAMSTER because mobs that are not in the linear story repopulate - but still it has put my game time at over 10 minutes extra - the person also did not rate it.
    Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
    ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ
    Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.

    Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
    SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
  • bardaaronbardaaron Member Posts: 545 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    So, someone took longer than others to run your quest and you immediately think "sabotage?" Seems a little paranoid to me.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I would hardly call one person running a quest longer sabotage. For a short quest like yours, it might even be safer incase it gets pushed down below 15 minutes by speed runners.

    Oh and prettycelt, i have a feeling that 1 star was not exactly sabotage, but it might be someone who is not familar with that forgotten realms lore. When i first started i scoofed and thought, yakuza in D&D this is silly, then because of such specific wording (alot of chinese sounding stuff along with japanese stuff) i went online to search for it, and there i found it actually is part of the campaign and was shocked.

    Maybe you need to note at the beginning that this is based on a forgotten realm campaign (or whatever it may be)
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • jintortlejintortle Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Well was 3 plays - no ratings or comments. It is the only additional plays except for my beta testers who all mailed me responses.

    If it was someone thats fine - but 3 people (plays) - and to get it from 17 - 27 minutes with just 3 additional plays is a lot.

    At 8 plays was 17 minutes.

    11 plays was- 27 minutes.

    That means the 3 plays would have been about 53 minutes each.

    I am not concerned - but a time blow out like that might put people off playing - because they will think it is too long.

    But like I said could have been the Gond thing - Oh wait a second why would someone try a contest entrant to farm devices. mmmmnnnn Oh and not even rate it once - jeez thats not even going to make it a daily any time soon. tss tss - Do you really think 3 people played it and no one rated it. Jeez come on! Oh and no tips either - yet they spent so much time in there.

    Well if you doubt me fine - but it makes me wonder!
    Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
    ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ
    Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.

    Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
    SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
  • edited August 2014
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  • wininoidwininoid Member Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Good points. I bet the vast majority of players come from the MMO world and not the D&D world. This is probably their first taste of Forgotten Realms.
  • xetmk24xetmk24 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My humble opinion about the rules of this contest. It’s a bad idea.

    1. As many posters already pointed out authors with subscribers, guilds, friends and so on will have significant advantage. Author Bob have 25 friends; he will get 25 plays with 5 stars. Author Mike has only 5 friends; he will get only 5 plays. This also means that Bob’s quest will be daily eligible in a moment, while Mike’s won’t. I wonder which quest players will play. One that will help them with their quest or the one that won’t…

    2. Longer quest will be at disadvantage. Let’s face it players play quests that are 15 min long. They usually just type 15 min in the search tab and bum, play. I’m not saying that 15 min quests can’t be good or exciting.

    3. Players will abuse rating system. If by “highest rated” Cryptic means average rating then it’s more beneficial to play someone’s entry and give it 1 star than play yours and give it 5 stars.

    4. Many players don’t understand Foundry limitations: A 1-star review mentioned it this thread justification: – no dragon fight at the end. And of course still present: - bad loot from end chest.

    5. Star rating isn’t very accurate. I give this quest 4 stars because it was fun but had some problems, other player gave it 5 because this problems didn’t bothered him and another player gave 3 because he felt like those problems broke his immersion.

    And these are just the one at the top of my head. Manny other issue with this voting system can be easily found. In the future, please consider creating jury that will chose the winners and maybe give a “community chosen reward” as something additional.
    Also there should be a way to recognize eligible contest entry in game, like contest tab or event tab. Or an NPC standing where all other event NPCs stands that talk about the contest. Something. Many players don’t read the blog and they still play this game.
    Anyway that’s my five cents. Have fun all and good luck.
    Echo of the Ancient - NW-DT2ABLPD2 - The Wizards forces are pillaging ruins of the ancient, elven kingdom of Illefarn. In order to stop them, you need to lead your party through old, abandoned mines. But beware... you are not alone there...
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Don't forget not everyone rates the same as others. Someone rated mine 2 stars and after talking to the person to find out what was wrong. He tells me that he has his own system he gives 1 star if it is playable 2 if it is enjoyable, 3 if it has somehting special then 5 if it is mindblowing/perfect.

    You will always get 1 stars too, whether it is contest or not. Someone can easily give 1 stars and because they found it boring, which happens alot the main contributors being (Even if you made an awesome quest),

    1. combat (someone died more than once)
    2. story (they skipped everything and got confused/bored. Or it did not interest them and they got bored half way through.)
    3. humor. Jokes usually either work on the person or it annoys them.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    jintortle wrote: »
    You will always get 1 stars too, whether it is contest or not. Someone can easily give 1 stars and because they found it boring, which happens alot the main contributors being (Even if you made an awesome quest),

    1. combat (someone died more than once)
    2. story (they skipped everything and got confused/bored. Or it did not interest them and they got bored half way through.)
    3. humor. Jokes usually either work on the person or it annoys them.

    Sigh. Ain't it the truth.

    I just got 1-starred because I had a "Foundry" contact sign at the end of City Skirmish that stated we have no control over loot drops or end treasure, and then 5-responses, only one of which showed they read the statement. It was a "great" quests, but that single sign was deemed "annoying." D'oh! 1-starred for "forcing" reading.
  • boomba66boomba66 Member Posts: 221 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    eldarth wrote: »
    Sigh. Ain't it the truth.

    I just got 1-starred because I had a "Foundry" contact sign at the end of City Skirmish that stated we have no control over loot drops or end treasure, and then 5-responses, only one of which showed they read the statement. It was a "great" quests, but that single sign was deemed "annoying." D'oh! 1-starred for "forcing" reading.

    Truth is there have been so many entries into the contest I doubt there will be a fair way to judge them. I haven't been able to play any in two weeks but I did review 15 or 16 and I doubt the devs have that kind of time. So, in all likely hood it will come down to the rating system. There will be 1 star ratings and I am certain one of the really great mods will get left out.

    I just honestly hope it's not one that drives foundry players away. If it is a spectacular success whoever wins(I mean I hope it's me, but will be fine if it's one better then mine), it means we will all get more foundry plays!!!!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • grimahgrimah Member Posts: 1,658 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I am so shocked that there are so many entries, supposedly the other languages have much less.

    I feel the blog post/notice of all the entries is going to be largely ignored because there are so many of them. And I doubt they will post any descriptions either because it would be unfair for those who listed without any posted on that thread.
    Creator of the featured survival horror foundry: "The Silence of Haydenwick" Video Review
    and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
  • howlitehowlite Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    So I have a question pertaining to the contest, and this will determine whether I sleep tomorrow night; is the final deadline Tuesday at Midnight, Wednesday at Noon, Wednesday at Midnight, or some other time?

    Additionally, once the maps are released for the contest, are we allowed to edit them further?
  • bardaaronbardaaron Member Posts: 545 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    Only Akro can answer that for certain, but unless otherwise noted, I would GUESS you have all of the 6th to submit. Pacific Time. Everything else seems to be judged on pacific time, so I am assuming this will be the same.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bardaaronbardaaron Member Posts: 545 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    grimah wrote: »
    I am so shocked that there are so many entries, supposedly the other languages have much less.

    I feel the blog post/notice of all the entries is going to be largely ignored because there are so many of them. And I doubt they will post any descriptions either because it would be unfair for those who listed without any posted on that thread.
    There are 97 of them now--likely to be over 100 by the deadline. This is going to be an absolute mess. I don't know how the Devs will wade through enough of them to weed out the "ineligible" ones. To make it worse, with that volume of quests there is 0 chance of this being judged fairly. At the very least, at least the volume might deter guilds from blanket down-voting other quests...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    grimah wrote: »
    I feel the blog post/notice of all the entries is going to be largely ignored because there are so many of them. And I doubt they will post any descriptions either because it would be unfair for those who listed without any posted on that thread.

    90% of them are probably just entered for the free entry prize.

    I have a feeling a huge number are simple 50 encounters dropped on an existing map.
    Those will undoubtedly be weeded out, and I presume the devs can "see" the budget numbers to help filter such things.

    So, figure maybe 30-40 left? Of those they can probably weed out a bunch more based on a quick 5-10 minutes of play time.

    So, I expect them to get it down to probably 15-20 realistic contenders. Last foundry they did actually provide quest name, shortcode, and brief description, so I'd expect the same once they weed out the chaff.
  • howlitehowlite Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Thank you for your response, I'll keep an eye for Akro's response tomorrow, I have at least have 6 hours tomorrow to work on it... here's hoping that's enough.
  • boomba66boomba66 Member Posts: 221 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    eldarth wrote: »
    90% of them are probably just entered for the free entry prize.

    I have a feeling a huge number are simple 50 encounters dropped on an existing map.
    Those will undoubtedly be weeded out, and I presume the devs can "see" the budget numbers to help filter such things.

    So, figure maybe 30-40 left? Of those they can probably weed out a bunch more based on a quick 5-10 minutes of play time.

    So, I expect them to get it down to probably 15-20 realistic contenders. Last foundry they did actually provide quest name, shortcode, and brief description, so I'd expect the same once they weed out the chaff.

    Actually in my sampling most people gave very good efforts into trying to make the best foundry they could. I saw only 1 that appeared to be a 40 mobs on the map grinder. There was a few noticably better then others, but honestly I think most people came into this trying to win. Now that said some really bad modules have some very high ratings due to friends bumping their score. So we all just have to wait and see to find out which shall make the top of the list.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sn0wst0rmzsn0wst0rmz Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    boomba66 wrote: »
    Actually in my sampling most people gave very good efforts into trying to make the best foundry they could. I saw only 1 that appeared to be a 40 mobs on the map grinder. There was a few noticably better then others, but honestly I think most people came into this trying to win. Now that said some really bad modules have some very high ratings due to friends bumping their score. So we all just have to wait and see to find out which shall make the top of the list.




    Yeah man, i concur with you. I've spent like 14 hours a day or more for the last 3 weeks working on my contest foundry entry. I'm in the last stages of polishing it up after only 1 day of testing. I have had 3 people say it was awesome and gave me 5 stars and tips. Then I had a dude give me a horrible write up. I'm not even sure if he gave me a star. I wish they had a better way to find out who gave me the bad write up, too at least get feedback.

    I mean, this was my first published foundry (although I tried back in beta before i quit playing for almost a year)... but this is my first. I'm proud of my entry. It's a little ambitious for 1700 object limits (i'm missing beta when we had 3000 clusters and 3000 details to paint with), but I think it'd turned out very creative and THE absolute best custom castle maps i've seen in the foundry.

    Are people really gonna go around giving the competition bad reviews just for some prize? That's what it feels like too me when they don't bother to leave feedback.

    Check it out and tell me if this isn't worth a 5 star review.... I'm totally reworking my 2nd map story line still..but map 1 and map 3 are pretty much done until the contest is over and I can polish it more.

    Name: Arselu'Tel'Quess (means High Magic in Elven)
    Code: NW-DDQ6P4IKQ
    "I attack the darkness!"

    Foundry Author of Arselu'Tel'Quess (NW-DDQ6P4IKQ)
  • akromatikakromatik Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2014
    Hey guys!

    The deadline is 10AM tomorrow 8/6.

    Also, due to the STAGGERING number of entries, I've been thinking about ways to make community-based judging go smoothly and everyone getting a fair shot.

    I was thinking of featuring the eligible Foundry quests for 1 week in batches. After each week, we would record the scores of the featured quests. That way, every one could be judged for the same amount of time and receive the same amount of visibility (if we featured all the quests at once, it's quite possible that people's quests could get buried). It would also allow people to rate quests they had already played through and would prevent authors from further editing their quests. Once every quest has been featured, we would look at our list and pick the 3 highest-rated Foundry quests for first, second, and third.

    The thing is, this would push the winner's announcement back...waaaaay back. Almost 2 months if every entry made the cut.

    What are your thoughts on this, Authors?
  • xetmk24xetmk24 Member Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The idea of featuring is good. There will be problems with this:
    If every entry made it then, as you said winner will be announced later. I also just realized that this contest will coexist with the release of Module 4. I hope that this time no foundry bugs will be present. This will also cause the drop in foundry quests plays as players will be busy with the new content. This means that either first quests will be played less or later quests.
    I also thought you would "weed out" the quest and chose like 15-20. My mistake. I guess it's good as all authors whose quests aren't just kill five mobs will be rewarded for their work (with being featured at least).
    Second thing about the weekly appearances: vacations will be over, some players will return to work, school or stop working. Some weeks will be full of players, some won't.
    Overall this might be a good idea... but sadly still not fair one.
    Honestly it all boils down to this being voted by community not jury. I know you are probably sick of hearing this ;) All problems would be gone if you guys and gals at Cryptic would chose the winners.
    At least that's my thoughts.
    Echo of the Ancient - NW-DT2ABLPD2 - The Wizards forces are pillaging ruins of the ancient, elven kingdom of Illefarn. In order to stop them, you need to lead your party through old, abandoned mines. But beware... you are not alone there...
  • angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Good idea - beef up the first-second-third prizes (whatever they are, add something extra for the delay in winner announcements or sumfin)

    Then do the batches - BUT they need to be smaller batches - too many in one batch and they might not all get played (and in this case the very name of the quest could be an advantage/disadvantage). Just thinking aloud here.

    But batches is a good idea - and featuring is a good idea - I'd actually make a conscious effort to run and rate them all

    One thought though - if there are that many, maybe a slight ladder type ranking? Say a winner from each batch, then a final batch featuring the winners of the individual batch? These are difficult even for players as I might LOVE an early one I played, but also thinking "there might be a better one later on" - hard to remember my favorites, etc. I dunno - just rambling feedback.

    TL;DR: Batches of Featured Quests is a great idea!
  • orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I still say I trust you a lot more than I trust the community for judging purposes. Also, not being able to edit hurts significantly since people already have to rush to make a deadline.
    Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
  • edited August 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • akromatikakromatik Member Posts: 1
    edited August 2014
    What if we waited to feature the first batch after the 19th? Hopefully most of the potential bugs will have been sorted out by then.

    As for changing how the judging will occur, is that really something people would prefer?

  • jintortlejintortle Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    In batches also might cause apathy amongst players - they might get confused about what is happening and start ignoring the more later announcements.

    Also I know people who would say that they will play a test but a week is a very small window for them - some people I know plan their week in advance - Honestly they also might forget.

    Also it gives others more time to play all the other foundries and tweak their content (unless: It would also allow people to rate quests they had already played through and would prevent authors from further editing their quests. = all foundries are now locked from editing).

    "It would also allow people to rate quests they had already played through" - does this means beta testers could re-rate the quests they helped in.

    What you should do is =

    1. Have a separate TAB in the ingame Foundry list that is contest only - so no difference in "new" - "For review" or "featured" Foundries *MIne is in "New" section and people might not look there!!

    2. Lock out all other foundries from play while the Competition is on. - So only Competition Tab is lit up.

    3. Hide what Foundries are eligible for "daily reward"

    4. Hide the plays

    5. Hide the reviews

    6. Have a splash screen on login instead of the "the GF use's Her (why is it not their) shield" captions. - I hate thinking people think my male masculine GF is not a HE ;) - suggesting them to play the content/contest.


    NOTE: Although I would keep the star ratings switched on.
    Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
    ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ
    Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.

    Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
    SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
  • shiikuushiikuu Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 65
    edited August 2014
    will the idea is good, it will take a long time, will probably bug with the next module and will be not completely fair as the quest of everyone can be played in the normal version and when its get copied all stars get copied too.

    A better solution would be to give the players some rewards:
    1. when they play and vote a Quest they get one chance to be random pick for some reward at the end of the event, for each quest they would get one more chance to be picked.
    2. when they do this for every quest, the get some reward like the Mystagogue and a chance on special reward.

    this would ensure that many would play all the foundry even with a limited timeframe.
  • jintortlejintortle Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yup, Yup - contest reward plays would be great! - they are dungeons after all.

    Although after they got the companion - most would no longer play - or replay the foundry where they got it from.

    A token reward system would be good - 100 buys "whatever".
    Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
    ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ
    Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.

    Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
    SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
  • jintortlejintortle Member Posts: 655 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I also just saw that the actual release date for "Dragons" is only 7 days away.

    I even though want to play through a lot of the foundries and give them a fair chance - I myself am not going to be doing much else after the 14th except dragon searching and warlock training!

    It already is going to hinder voting and those released in tomorrow's announcement will have a distinct advantage!
    Genus Draco Fad and the Muster@Jintortle
    ID: NW-DD5FLOBTJ
    Cult of the Dragon Foundry Contest - Please participate and vote for your favourite - 26/6/2014 contest rating begins.

    Sir Camps A Lot. Mr SlingShot Boom. XX Phantasmagorical. Jinn Dragonfeast.
    SlingShot Boom Jr. Jocan Traders. Little Lord Forgatty, Dwarf Mean and introducing Necro Torquemada (The Warlock)
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