I don't need to play a GWF to see their master of all abilities at work. When i out play a GWF but he still beats me because of broken mechanics and OP abilities theres a problem.
So say what you want, but these changes were induced by more then just myself. Clearly there were more people much like myself that saw the same.
GWF can run away remove themselves from danger unfettered by cc while having a high DR now. You don't need an extra 30% DR spammed with your already ridiculous Unstoppable.
10%- 20% was fair!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
Options
schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
- The OP asked feedback by GWFs who actually tested end game content with GWF toons on preview. So GFs/ CWs/ TRs/ HRs/ DCs tipying angrily out of their own frustration about stuff they DID NOT TEST, is absolutely useless.
- From someone who tested the changes: Determination gain is much slower than before. Not fluctuating anymore, but way slower than on live. Which means, your usual GWF will be able to go unstoppable less in PvE and lose more HP before being able to go Unstoppable in PvP. Along with the DR reduction which is still noticeable (15-30% in place of 25-50% of the live version).
- Sprint is now defensive too, BUT sprint is a gap closing ability too. GWFs are a non-stealth melee class. Which means, they are constantly being hit and before being able to hit the enemy they need to actually reach it and catch it in between the blocks/ immunity moves all other classes have. Sprint gives DR but does not grant damage immunity like the moves for all the other classes. Which means it's still less effective as a defensive ability, and must still be done a choice if you want to actually use it for defense or to reach the enemy. Even more now that threat rush has been nerfed to 3 charges with 9 seconds cooldown.
- GWFs prones are gone. In place of the prones, now we have 2 secs of stun that are further reduced by tenacity. With these, the GWF must land its IBS. Flourish is still slow and easily dodged in PvP. Same for takedown. Frontline is now low damage AND 17 seconds cooldown with no prone. Takedown damage nerfed a ton too. Threat rush damage nerfed a lot too AND put on 3 charges+ cooldown as written above. Roar got not just fixed. It got fixed AND NERFED, since the base power from game release description was able to at least root the enemy, while right now it's at best a PvE ability to gain determination. Plus, damage was nerfed. Which was not really needed since the damage of Roar was already low...
Now, IF you actually play a GWF and you actually tested it (unlike some angry folks here) you pretty much know that OVERALL it's a noticeable nerf. With new changes to stamina and Unstoppable going from 10-20% to 15-30%, these nerfs hit less hard, but the strenght of the class is still heavily reduced in PvP, and a lot will change for PvE.
I think the changes are overall not as bad since they make the class probably more fun to play and give more options to build your toon. Nerfs on IV are probably a bit too much btw. In any case, if someone who does not even know the class still needs to whine and call GWFs OP, then please just go learn to play and learn the class. Just so that you can speak of something you actually know and tested, instead of tipying some angry, uninformed nonsense...
My overall opinion: threat rush still good to close the gap, just now it must be used wisely and is not OP anymore on GWFs. Same for Frontline. Base "passive" survivability still good for sentinels, lower for destroyers. Requires actually a good use of your mobility and footwork to be strong and survive. Which is good. Will probably need to be good to be effective, else you'll end up being kited by permastealth, HRs and CWs easily.
Expecially the lack of prones for PvP will make GWFs probably the hardest class to actually land a hit. It's actually harder to reach the enemy, plus roar does not even root and the only other ranged ability stuns for 2 seconds. This means you can stun, then you've to reach the enemy and by the time your takedown animation is over, the enemy will already be blocking/ dodging/ teleporting/ shifting immune. IBS can be landed only with the enemy being forced to do not move. Else it can be dodged easily.
Can be done with a fast takedown+ IBS combo, but then you need to actually chase a Perma/ pathfinder/ CW through all their dodges and immunities with sprint and may be threat rush+ punishing charge. Which means your damage will come from IBS alone, pretty much.
Frontline, as said, has long cooldown and now chip damage plus a too short stun...have yet to test if it's possible to frontline-threat rush-takedown-IBS. Anyone tasted it in PvP?
For the OP: i think GWFs are still viable for both PvE and PvP, but noticeably weaker than they are now on live. Both sentinels and destroyers.
After spending my time ower 3 weak in mod4 .
I came to the folowing things both pve and pvp.
The most op class in NW still HR.
3 path 2 paragons .
1 path(+pathfinder) the green arrow ranged destroyer can kill anithing and any one from ranged stance.
Best dps in mod4 will beat all GWFs and CWs in dungeon runs.
2 path the vampire (+strormwarden)the best tank and nod holder in NW also nice dps same as destroyer and CW.
The new 32-34% ls give him unlimited life with the new medicine feat its immortal and cannot be defeated.
My test was in FH he can beat himmir+all adds easly single handed and in pvp not even 5 ppl can kill him.
3 path perma root this is awesome too nobody can close to him in pvp there are only 3 specific path and class hou can counter him (vampire & Green Arrow+ the new Oppressor CW) he is super cool in pve part to special aganst control immmune targets.
All of them can solo any dungeon.
Second beast is CW Oppressor (spellstorm mage)
Intensive control + Average DPS same as GWF destroyer.
Weakness is still the pvp part cuz aganst two class he have 0 chance "the green arrow & the vampire".
But all in one good change but poor choice cuz i know anyone will be Oppressor the only option left for CWs.
Only Oppressor can solo any dungeon.
Now GWF .
First of all he got a brutal big nerf to vanguard (usless now ).
Second he got a brutal big nerf to unstoppable but in exchange he got a new shift ability better but i am still not impressed cuz still affected by rollback.
Now cuz we have no option left i rolled to swordmaster .
Swordmaster Instigator what to say USLESS.
Swordmaster Destroyer still die too much lost around 20-30 % dps .
Still can survive but we need lot to change in gear .
Here is the pro tip .(also i skipped executioner stlye and changed it too Scale agility .
I used my PVP (full pur BI) sett with lower stats on power crit rec i find some dps bosst cuz i dont need to worry soo much of my HP after i find this out i looked agan on my dps.
Now i lost only 15-25% DPS .
Still good but not so good any more he is now the second best dps in pve .
Well i run lot of test but i can say the pvp is super hard for all GWF its more about running and we must use our skill realy well timed 1 mistake can lead to death he is now more like mod 3 Exe tr dead in pvp . We lost too much the 2 sec CC from Flourish is not enugh . I can say soo much about domination cuz after they made the sprint buff they disabled the q . But i know its more running then hitting .
Swordmaster Sentinel almost good in pve he have now a good role if the pt cannot find a GF he can fill the role almost good as the GF. In pvp he is a good nod holder but need lots of skill to stay alive (like DC )super poor dps can even kill CW i think in mod 4 the only char he can realy defeat is the SW.
GF both Swordmaster and Vanguard is cool.
I find my self realy powerfull agan in dungeon runs if i am not sorrounded by HR s they need me CW cast they spells too slow GWFs die realy quick if they dont use BI. TR & DC sare the CWs and GWF fate.(finaly we need tank until i see LF 5 HR ).
The only problem i see is GF need and i strongly recomend . Min 50 k hp second + min 1500 LS min 2000 crit rate min 4000 power and full BI purified gear both wep and armor hard to reach then chose conq+Pvorpal.
Cuz the two other path are left in dust and are total usless cuz of the new block mech.
But all in one GF can now kill GWF GF can kill DC tr and SW this is a good start .
Summa : Best loosers in mod 4 GWF and SW until now i will bring more news after the new patch.
Scourge Warlock.
The first 2 paragon path are dead both pvp and pve until they change somthing on it.
But the healer is realy awesome heal more and dps more then DC.
In pvp he is a dead char too.
I don't need to play a GWF to see their master of all abilities at work. When i out play a GWF but he still beats me because of broken mechanics and OP abilities theres a problem.
So say what you want, but these changes were induced by more then just myself. Clearly there were more people much like myself that saw the same.
GWF can run away remove themselves from danger unfettered by cc while having a high DR now. You don't need an extra 30% DR spammed with your already ridiculous Unstoppable.
10%- 20% was fair!
I strongly reccomend to rethink your chosen class (GF).
Cuz my GF is almost perfect no GWF in preview can kill it but i see a big threat in HR and CW.
Also i finde my self awesome agan in pve part the current buffs make me almost good as i was with stalwart armor .
The only thing what i find awfull is the new block.
I know some GF need lot to change in gear but much more GWF need to change they gear too.
I strongly reccomend to rethink your chosen class (GF).
Cuz my GF is almost perfect no GWF in preview can kill it but i see a big threat in HR and CW.
Also i finde my self awesome agan in pve part the current buffs make me almost good as i was with stalwart armor .
The only thing what i find awfull is the new block.
I know some GF need lot to change in gear but much more GWF need to change they gear too.
he is an idiot who dont know how to play his own class and know how to just troll, he is just rage typing cause he is getting his *** handed in live.
I strongly reccomend to rethink your chosen class (GF).
Cuz my GF is almost perfect no GWF in preview can kill it but i see a big threat in HR and CW.
Also i finde my self awesome agan in pve part the current buffs make me almost good as i was with stalwart armor .
The only thing what i find awfull is the new block.
I know some GF need lot to change in gear but much more GWF need to change they gear too.
Really? well i'll be on tonight I want to see this GF of yours!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
1 path(+pathfinder) the green arrow ranged destroyer can kill anithing and any one from ranged stance.
Best dps in mod4 will beat all GWFs and CWs in dungeon runs.
2 path the vampire (+strormwarden)the best tank and nod holder in NW also nice dps same as destroyer and CW.
The new 32-34% ls give him unlimited life with the new medicine feat its immortal and cannot be defeated.
My test was in FH he can beat himmir+all adds easly single handed and in pvp not even 5 ppl can kill him.
3 path perma root this is awesome too nobody can close to him in pvp there are only 3 specific path and class hou can counter him (vampire & Green Arrow+ the new Oppressor CW) he is super cool in pve part to special aganst control immmune targets.
All of them can solo any dungeon.
Second beast is CW Oppressor (spellstorm mage)
Intensive control + Average DPS same as GWF destroyer.
Weakness is still the pvp part cuz aganst two class he have 0 chance "the green arrow & the vampire".
But all in one good change but poor choice cuz i know anyone will be Oppressor the only option left for CWs.
Only Oppressor can solo any dungeon.
Scourge Warlock.
The first 2 paragon path are dead both pvp and pve until they change somthing on it.
But the healer is realy awesome heal more and dps more then DC.
In pvp he is a dead char too.
TR & DC have same place both pvp and pve .
PS : sorry i wrote from mobile
There is so much wrong in this post that I really don't know where to start. Most of it seems to have just been made up out of whole cloth. I don't even...
I play CW/GF/GWF. I think you need other classes posting on your boards (your collective, not GWF). Not in anger about a planned adjustment, but they need to be able to post on their experiences against such a class. How else will you balance? Just on the people testing the class? You will almost never get balance that way, just the bad will come out, not the good, 99% of the time.
GWF/TR here. I also think we need other classes posting on our respective boards as this is a game with a lot of interaction. While I do think the main class involved should hold sway for their opinions I also realize the necessity for others. Remember the last two buffs to GWF were meant to be corrections/reductions/nerfs and the mostly exclusive feedback about them came from strictly those of us that play GWF with an emphasis on those who have it as an exclusive main. The result was that the intended nerfs became super buffs. This is continuing once again with intended nerfs become break even or even buffs.
As far as GWF goes (not going to comment on other dps classes because all of them have methods to get out of danger in PvE decently easily) they end up taking damage to the face whether they like it or not. Sprint is not reliable enough to avoid the damage from enemies, so Unstoppable is used to make up for the difference. The problem with nerfing Unstoppable to unreasonable levels (like the initial 5-10%) is that it makes leveling up and playing a non BiS GWF a hell in an of itself and you have no way of choosing otherwise until level 50.
An easier and more sensible way to go about the unstoppable change so that it won't affect new players would have been to simply leave Unstoppable alone and decrease it to the 15-30%, 12.5-25%, 10-20% (whatever) IF the player takes the Destroyer capstone. That would at least save the Instigator tree from getting neglected even more by forcing you to choose between ONLY Destroyer or Sentinel since only those 2 trees are worth anything.
The funny thing about the 30% upper limit is that it will almost never happen unless you get hit for half of your hp at once and your Determination bar skyrockets. Most people just go unstoppable the moment its available so that they can keep their Destroyer's Purpose stacks.
Turn sprint back to normal for all I care. Not a single GWF asked for this; it just looks like the devs threw it in there because the code was already available in the Warlock.
That goes back to a comment I had made on another thread before. I always felt that the various paths of the GWF should be closer together than other classes. I find it fitting that the class is easy to play in it's delivery as that fits the model of a reckless class. I felt it should be consistent damage but more tank than damage (able to stay in the red when needed, able to offtank without the rest of the group having to worry about it). That model doesn't fit real well in this game, though, with the way things are designed and the way people stack for DPS. What we have currently is the GWF filling the role of a top DPS class that can also do these other things and the tankier built versions of the GWF (e.g. sent) is being forced out of a spot by his own class (I even witnessed two GWF in the same dungeon one sent and one destroyer. Their gear was comparable but the destroyer was well over 4 times the damage of the sent and never once at risk of death (lifesteal really needs looked at). The destroyer became down right rude and abusive in the party chat to the sent and I found the display quite revealing). I think that whatever changes are needed that the destroyer and sent should be no more than 25% different in the end result or they will need to flag destroyer as DPS and sent as tank in the party matchmaker.
Comments
So say what you want, but these changes were induced by more then just myself. Clearly there were more people much like myself that saw the same.
GWF can run away remove themselves from danger unfettered by cc while having a high DR now. You don't need an extra 30% DR spammed with your already ridiculous Unstoppable.
10%- 20% was fair!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
After spending my time ower 3 weak in mod4 .
I came to the folowing things both pve and pvp.
The most op class in NW still HR.
3 path 2 paragons .
1 path(+pathfinder) the green arrow ranged destroyer can kill anithing and any one from ranged stance.
Best dps in mod4 will beat all GWFs and CWs in dungeon runs.
2 path the vampire (+strormwarden)the best tank and nod holder in NW also nice dps same as destroyer and CW.
The new 32-34% ls give him unlimited life with the new medicine feat its immortal and cannot be defeated.
My test was in FH he can beat himmir+all adds easly single handed and in pvp not even 5 ppl can kill him.
3 path perma root this is awesome too nobody can close to him in pvp there are only 3 specific path and class hou can counter him (vampire & Green Arrow+ the new Oppressor CW) he is super cool in pve part to special aganst control immmune targets.
All of them can solo any dungeon.
Second beast is CW Oppressor (spellstorm mage)
Intensive control + Average DPS same as GWF destroyer.
Weakness is still the pvp part cuz aganst two class he have 0 chance "the green arrow & the vampire".
But all in one good change but poor choice cuz i know anyone will be Oppressor the only option left for CWs.
Only Oppressor can solo any dungeon.
Now GWF .
First of all he got a brutal big nerf to vanguard (usless now ).
Second he got a brutal big nerf to unstoppable but in exchange he got a new shift ability better but i am still not impressed cuz still affected by rollback.
Now cuz we have no option left i rolled to swordmaster .
Swordmaster Instigator what to say USLESS.
Swordmaster Destroyer still die too much lost around 20-30 % dps .
Still can survive but we need lot to change in gear .
Here is the pro tip .(also i skipped executioner stlye and changed it too Scale agility .
I used my PVP (full pur BI) sett with lower stats on power crit rec i find some dps bosst cuz i dont need to worry soo much of my HP after i find this out i looked agan on my dps.
Now i lost only 15-25% DPS .
Still good but not so good any more he is now the second best dps in pve .
Well i run lot of test but i can say the pvp is super hard for all GWF its more about running and we must use our skill realy well timed 1 mistake can lead to death he is now more like mod 3 Exe tr dead in pvp . We lost too much the 2 sec CC from Flourish is not enugh . I can say soo much about domination cuz after they made the sprint buff they disabled the q . But i know its more running then hitting .
Swordmaster Sentinel almost good in pve he have now a good role if the pt cannot find a GF he can fill the role almost good as the GF. In pvp he is a good nod holder but need lots of skill to stay alive (like DC )super poor dps can even kill CW i think in mod 4 the only char he can realy defeat is the SW.
GF both Swordmaster and Vanguard is cool.
I find my self realy powerfull agan in dungeon runs if i am not sorrounded by HR s they need me CW cast they spells too slow GWFs die realy quick if they dont use BI. TR & DC sare the CWs and GWF fate.(finaly we need tank until i see LF 5 HR ).
The only problem i see is GF need and i strongly recomend . Min 50 k hp second + min 1500 LS min 2000 crit rate min 4000 power and full BI purified gear both wep and armor hard to reach then chose conq+Pvorpal.
Cuz the two other path are left in dust and are total usless cuz of the new block mech.
But all in one GF can now kill GWF GF can kill DC tr and SW this is a good start .
Summa : Best loosers in mod 4 GWF and SW until now i will bring more news after the new patch.
Scourge Warlock.
The first 2 paragon path are dead both pvp and pve until they change somthing on it.
But the healer is realy awesome heal more and dps more then DC.
In pvp he is a dead char too.
TR & DC have same place both pvp and pve .
PS : sorry i wrote from mobile
I strongly reccomend to rethink your chosen class (GF).
Cuz my GF is almost perfect no GWF in preview can kill it but i see a big threat in HR and CW.
Also i finde my self awesome agan in pve part the current buffs make me almost good as i was with stalwart armor .
The only thing what i find awfull is the new block.
I know some GF need lot to change in gear but much more GWF need to change they gear too.
he is an idiot who dont know how to play his own class and know how to just troll, he is just rage typing cause he is getting his *** handed in live.
Really? well i'll be on tonight I want to see this GF of yours!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I am merely posting feedback on what I see on preview. I did not and have not called people foolish names as you have.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Wow.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
from all ur post i can see u have never ever gone to preview.
all i see is a troll.
You would be wrong, i'll be on again tonight...
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
GWF/TR here. I also think we need other classes posting on our respective boards as this is a game with a lot of interaction. While I do think the main class involved should hold sway for their opinions I also realize the necessity for others. Remember the last two buffs to GWF were meant to be corrections/reductions/nerfs and the mostly exclusive feedback about them came from strictly those of us that play GWF with an emphasis on those who have it as an exclusive main. The result was that the intended nerfs became super buffs. This is continuing once again with intended nerfs become break even or even buffs.
That goes back to a comment I had made on another thread before. I always felt that the various paths of the GWF should be closer together than other classes. I find it fitting that the class is easy to play in it's delivery as that fits the model of a reckless class. I felt it should be consistent damage but more tank than damage (able to stay in the red when needed, able to offtank without the rest of the group having to worry about it). That model doesn't fit real well in this game, though, with the way things are designed and the way people stack for DPS. What we have currently is the GWF filling the role of a top DPS class that can also do these other things and the tankier built versions of the GWF (e.g. sent) is being forced out of a spot by his own class (I even witnessed two GWF in the same dungeon one sent and one destroyer. Their gear was comparable but the destroyer was well over 4 times the damage of the sent and never once at risk of death (lifesteal really needs looked at). The destroyer became down right rude and abusive in the party chat to the sent and I found the display quite revealing). I think that whatever changes are needed that the destroyer and sent should be no more than 25% different in the end result or they will need to flag destroyer as DPS and sent as tank in the party matchmaker.