Then I dont understand at all how you dont understand.
The PROBLEM is people are buying AD from 3rd party sites. The problem ISNT that there is a backlog of zen ppl are not willing to buy...
If all you want to do is release the backlog then yes, adding more AD sinks is what you need. If what they are looking to do is increase zen SALES for the company then you need to increase the value of zen NOT decrease the value by adding ad sinks....
This thread is how to increase PWE sales and increase the worth of zen, this is in response to the DEV post yesterday saying/reminding people that purchasing from a 3rd party is probated... This isnt a post about the "backlog"
If all you do is offer more AD items for sale, you DO release the backlog and all you did then was decrease the zen value in the market and increase the value of AD, what this does then is makes the price 3rd party is willing to offer ALOT better than the price PWE is willing to offer on a $ per AD basis.
If the zen market can freely fluctuate then people can set their own price for zen, which will mean almost always there will be a market for zen.
If zen prices go too high, more ppl will BUY direct from PWE than from 3rd party sites (raise in sales for PWE) dropping the zen price back to the equilibrium.
So it seems you are saying the issue is the backlog - I dont think thats an issue to me that means the market cannot effectively price ZAX. Why? Because the cap. Remove the cap, the market takes effect.
I am a strong proponent of free markets and I think PWE should be too.
You're advocating the removal of the cap, which would allow the value of the Zen to rise (and increase PWE sales, which I suppose is the purpose of the thread). There are problems with a free-floating system, though. Specifically, the supply of AD is always increasing, and it's not long before there's a massive AD/Zen ratio. Nobody wants that.
Let's say you increase the demand for AD. The AD/Zen ratio will begin to lower, which would remove the backlog. Moreover, this also increases the amount of Zen exchanged for AD, which is an increase in PWE sales. I fail to see how your fix is any better than increasing the demand for AD.
Also, 3rd part sites are irrelevant. Ignoring the fact that they are out of PWE's control, they will always offer a better $/AD deal than exchanging Zen for AD. No matter if the AD/Zen ratio is high or low; they push the market in a bad way in both scenarios.
1) Base ability score Re-roll - this will bring ALOT of paying customers. People would easily pay north of 2k zen for this.
3) Transmutes - Buy the Zen transmute for 2k, turn your Perfect Vorpal into a Normal Flaming enchant! Your a GWF but want to LOOK like your wearing a hood? Buy this item and Xmute your helm into a Hunter Hood ( I know about the Pack btw).
4) UN-Bind Token - Players would take gear like Formorian weapons, pay 5k to unbind them and sell them for alot.
I feel like you're either on drugs or have more disposable income than you should be allowed to have. Paying $20 to reroll stats? $20 to TRANSMUTE? $50 to unbind? Only the people who have stupid amounts of money will pay these prices, if they can even justify it to themselves.
More realistic prices are 200 for the stat reroll, 100-200 for transmutes, and 200-300 for unbind. Sex/Race changes should probably cost in the neighborhood of 300.
Smaller prices are better, because people feel more inclined to rebuy the product. Besides that, not many people want to spend the same money they'd spend on an entire game or games on a small cosmetic change.
You're advocating the removal of the cap, which would allow the value of the Zen to rise (and increase PWE sales, which I suppose is the purpose of the thread). There are problems with a free-floating system, though. Specifically, the supply of AD is always increasing, and it's not long before there's a massive AD/Zen ratio. Nobody wants that.
Let's say you increase the demand for AD. The AD/Zen ratio will begin to lower, which would remove the backlog. Moreover, this also increases the amount of Zen exchanged for AD, which is an increase in PWE sales. I fail to see how your fix is any better than increasing the demand for AD.
Also, 3rd part sites are irrelevant. Ignoring the fact that they are out of PWE's control, they will always offer a better $/AD deal than exchanging Zen for AD. No matter if the AD/Zen ratio is high or low; they push the market in a bad way in both scenarios.
EDIT: I got ninja'd. Several times.
How is people buying zen with AD an increase in sales? Thats what doesnt make sense. It doesnt increase sales when someone buys zen with AD, it doesnt increase sales when someone buys an item with zen they bought it AD, it only increases sales when someone buys zen directly from PWE.
If you remove the cap, prices rise - im estimating 700-800:1 ZAX. If this happens then people who want zen items have two choices.
1) Buy zen with $.
2) Buy zen with AD.
Option #2 is where 3rd party people come into play. Yes they will always have more attractive rates. What PWE can control though is HOW attractive.
Right now if $20 = 1 Mil buying zen. Or you can get 2 mil for $20 through third party, thats double the value.
If prices were 800:1 ZAX. $20 NOW gets you 1.6 Mil. Third Party sites still offer same price, meaning you closed the gap ALOT.
Now if you REDUCE ZAX to say 300:1 well now your $20 is only worth 600k. but its now worth 3x more on third party sites. I think thats the problem.
AD is always going to be increasing, thats a fact, that means third party sites will continue to lower prices over and over making the option to buy direct less and less attractive... I buy from PWE, but havnt had a need for a long time since I dont need anything... I have enough AD to buy whatever I need, now if they raised zen prices and released new zen items, id prob pull out that CC since now my AD doesnt go as far and i want that zen item.
The way I see it, honestly there shouldnt even be a ZAX. This would get rid of sites selling AD completely, this would cause other issues and Cryptic is trying to be nice to its player by allowing F2P players anything they want for a price....
If I were a company I would cater to the ones that are willing to pay, not the ones who dont want to pay at all.
All true, but you forget that it does work the other way around. Zen sales increase when people need AD. As a PvPer surely you know a lot of PvPers buy even pots with AD since they can't be bothered to spend half an hour a day in a dungeon to get gold. This results in more zen offers on the exchange. The fact PvP gear can be had for AD helps as well.
I'm sure a lot of PvP people would be quite upset about that. They'd have to spend time doing PvE content -the horror- to get gold for pots and stuff, which they can now buy easily with AD, converted from zen. And it would go against Cryptic's policy that everything should be obtainable without spending money. We can debate the quality of this choice all you want, but that's how it is.
Yeah I wont get into this, again I know people who dont bother with ZEN since they do 3rd party. Again go do a quick search at white potions selling for 1Mil AD each... those are people who bought AD 3rd party.
I know alot pf PVPers who play legitly (like myself) who either buy from PWE or farm in PVE(been a while LOL) and I know alot of PVPers who avoid PWE because of their "price" issue and go elsewhere for double/triple the AD/$ ratio....
Honestly id be MORE infavor if removing the ZAX than keeping it in its current form and im the most in favor of just removing the cap.
Who does the cap benefit? Only F2P players who want zen items... Oh and the 3rd party sites who can sell for cheaper and people buy zen with AD... Thats who.
Personally I look at this game LIKE its a sub based game, I dont mind spending $20/mo for some AD and what not if there is something i need, or heck, if its a zen item im ALL for it.
Given these two premises, which I acknowledge are based on my own subjective experiences, I just don't see an advantage to eliminating the cap. All I see is the price of everything skyrocketing to the point where all the f2p players give up hope and move on.
Sorry im not meaning to be a bully, if I came across harsh - sorry.
I do agree ZAX would sky rocket, and thats what I HOPE happens. If that does happen, PWE can maybe re-evaluate some of its pricing on zen items and make them cheaper.
I do think though that offering a better advantage for people to buy Zen direct from PWE from a price standpoint would boost sales alot more. It also benefits paying players - which the game should do that, otherwise who will pay?
Casuals and F2P players I feel have enough content/drive and access really to keep them hooked, besides coal wards there really isnt anything that you cant get with AD in the game that isnt purely "luxury".
As someone mentioned earlier, some of these xactions are not really "micro"... I mean 5k zen is $50 thats not a micro xaction.
Again go do a quick search at white potions selling for 1Mil AD each... those are people who bought AD 3rd party.
I'm not an Economics professor or anything like that, so I wont comment on anything like that.
What I WILL comment on is the assertion I've quoted above.
There are perfectly legitimate players who list Potions/other White items @ what would seem ridiculous prices. Reasons include: Splitting profits from Dungeon Runs, pooling resources to buy Crafting Assets for mutual use, and loaning AD to a friend to help get them started on their gear. ALL of these situations have occurred in my guild, so dont go insulting us by insinuating that we are cheaters/AD buyers.
I'm not an Economics professor or anything like that, so I wont comment on anything like that.
What I WILL comment on is the assertion I've quoted above.
There are perfectly legitimate players who list Potions/other White items @ what would seem ridiculous prices. Reasons include: Splitting profits from Dungeon Runs, pooling resources to buy Crafting Assets for mutual use, and loaning AD to a friend to help get them started on their gear. ALL of these situations have occurred in my guild, so dont go insulting us by insinuating that we are cheaters/AD buyers.
Like I said, look at the price though. I used to do split runs too I get it, but how many times do you see one player with 10 auctions up all for 1 mil B/O from the same dude.....
And usually theres multiple names who do this sort of thing, I thought it was funny and why I point it out. Obviously its an issue or they wouldnt have had the DEV post about it and you wouldnt see spammers this much in PE or the random mail you get sayng "hi friend, NW AD 1M $8.99" or w.e....
I also hear alot of ppl talking about this outside of game about the best places to buy etc.... So I know its going on and not just in small quantities...
Im not saying any white item posted for 1mil = a cheater. I am saying if 1 player has 20 auctions up for 1 mil each, then yea chances are high he bought outside PWE...
Sorry im not meaning to be a bully, if I came across harsh - sorry.
No worries, mate. No blood, no foul
Related to your concerns about pricing and providing value to people paying actual cash, I'm curious to see if we get a cash-only pack for module 4 similar to the Guardian/HotN/Feywild packs. I don't think it was coincidental that these packs, which are about the only things you can't exchange in game currency to obtain, are the items that seem to offer the most value for your $$. I'd love to see a warlock or dragon themed pack, and I'm sure a lot of people would happily plunk some cash down for, say, an account-wide purple demon companion and drake mount.
Related to your concerns about pricing and providing value to people paying actual cash, I'm curious to see if we get a cash-only pack for module 4 similar to the Guardian/HotN/Feywild packs. I don't think it was coincidental that these packs, which are about the only things you can't exchange in game currency to obtain, are the items that seem to offer the most value for your $$. I'd love to see a warlock or dragon themed pack, and I'm sure a lot of people would happily plunk some cash down for, say, an account-wide purple demon companion and drake mount.
Anyway, I'm about out for the day. Peace.
Im all for this, you know ill be getting one!
Yes things like this that PWE has a "competitive advantage" - in this case nobody else can even buy them.
I know A.V. mentioned lockboxes are the biggest sales items, probably because of people buying zen for keys to open them. Im merely just wanting Cryptic to get as much as they can out of the game.
More profits = more and better content for us! So this IS somewhat selfish of me, but I do also believe they should be paid well for what they do well. Which is why im not against AD being worth less and zen being worth more.
Scratch that, had to read everything. I dont really agree, and I dont really disagree. I dont think the outcome would be what the title implies, but then again; I cant say for sure it wouldnt.
I can say Im sure Cryptic is making money and this is one of their products. So I would hope they take the time and consideration of the entire playerbase when making large sweeping changes. (but we know companies in general will do what they do, to you know make the bottomline)
The problem with removing the cap, and making Z more valuable is that scammers and 3rd party vendors can just lower their prices to accomodate, after all, they're not spending a dime in the game, doing all their work with bots and then selling that, so they can lower their prices much more and there will be a point where Z won't be able to get more valuable because no one will want to buy Z for 5000 AD
The problem with removing the cap, and making Z more valuable is that scammers and 3rd party vendors can just lower their prices to accomodate, after all, they're not spending a dime in the game, doing all their work with bots and then selling that, so they can lower their prices much more and there will be a point where Z won't be able to get more valuable because no one will want to buy Z for 5000 AD
I'll disagree at the suggestion of removing cap. It will only devalue everything. Goldspammers will always always undercut.
This same thing happened in diablo 3's real money auction house.
People, let us LEARN from history, not make the same mistake again.
Comments
Let's say you increase the demand for AD. The AD/Zen ratio will begin to lower, which would remove the backlog. Moreover, this also increases the amount of Zen exchanged for AD, which is an increase in PWE sales. I fail to see how your fix is any better than increasing the demand for AD.
Also, 3rd part sites are irrelevant. Ignoring the fact that they are out of PWE's control, they will always offer a better $/AD deal than exchanging Zen for AD. No matter if the AD/Zen ratio is high or low; they push the market in a bad way in both scenarios.
EDIT: I got ninja'd. Several times.
I feel like you're either on drugs or have more disposable income than you should be allowed to have. Paying $20 to reroll stats? $20 to TRANSMUTE? $50 to unbind? Only the people who have stupid amounts of money will pay these prices, if they can even justify it to themselves.
More realistic prices are 200 for the stat reroll, 100-200 for transmutes, and 200-300 for unbind. Sex/Race changes should probably cost in the neighborhood of 300.
Smaller prices are better, because people feel more inclined to rebuy the product. Besides that, not many people want to spend the same money they'd spend on an entire game or games on a small cosmetic change.
How is people buying zen with AD an increase in sales? Thats what doesnt make sense. It doesnt increase sales when someone buys zen with AD, it doesnt increase sales when someone buys an item with zen they bought it AD, it only increases sales when someone buys zen directly from PWE.
If you remove the cap, prices rise - im estimating 700-800:1 ZAX. If this happens then people who want zen items have two choices.
1) Buy zen with $.
2) Buy zen with AD.
Option #2 is where 3rd party people come into play. Yes they will always have more attractive rates. What PWE can control though is HOW attractive.
Right now if $20 = 1 Mil buying zen. Or you can get 2 mil for $20 through third party, thats double the value.
If prices were 800:1 ZAX. $20 NOW gets you 1.6 Mil. Third Party sites still offer same price, meaning you closed the gap ALOT.
Now if you REDUCE ZAX to say 300:1 well now your $20 is only worth 600k. but its now worth 3x more on third party sites. I think thats the problem.
AD is always going to be increasing, thats a fact, that means third party sites will continue to lower prices over and over making the option to buy direct less and less attractive... I buy from PWE, but havnt had a need for a long time since I dont need anything... I have enough AD to buy whatever I need, now if they raised zen prices and released new zen items, id prob pull out that CC since now my AD doesnt go as far and i want that zen item.
The way I see it, honestly there shouldnt even be a ZAX. This would get rid of sites selling AD completely, this would cause other issues and Cryptic is trying to be nice to its player by allowing F2P players anything they want for a price....
If I were a company I would cater to the ones that are willing to pay, not the ones who dont want to pay at all.
Of course it does , where do you think the zen people buy using AD comes from? the zen fairy?
Yeah I wont get into this, again I know people who dont bother with ZEN since they do 3rd party. Again go do a quick search at white potions selling for 1Mil AD each... those are people who bought AD 3rd party.
I know alot pf PVPers who play legitly (like myself) who either buy from PWE or farm in PVE(been a while LOL) and I know alot of PVPers who avoid PWE because of their "price" issue and go elsewhere for double/triple the AD/$ ratio....
Honestly id be MORE infavor if removing the ZAX than keeping it in its current form and im the most in favor of just removing the cap.
Who does the cap benefit? Only F2P players who want zen items... Oh and the 3rd party sites who can sell for cheaper and people buy zen with AD... Thats who.
Personally I look at this game LIKE its a sub based game, I dont mind spending $20/mo for some AD and what not if there is something i need, or heck, if its a zen item im ALL for it.
Sorry im not meaning to be a bully, if I came across harsh - sorry.
I do agree ZAX would sky rocket, and thats what I HOPE happens. If that does happen, PWE can maybe re-evaluate some of its pricing on zen items and make them cheaper.
I do think though that offering a better advantage for people to buy Zen direct from PWE from a price standpoint would boost sales alot more. It also benefits paying players - which the game should do that, otherwise who will pay?
Casuals and F2P players I feel have enough content/drive and access really to keep them hooked, besides coal wards there really isnt anything that you cant get with AD in the game that isnt purely "luxury".
As someone mentioned earlier, some of these xactions are not really "micro"... I mean 5k zen is $50 thats not a micro xaction.
I'm not an Economics professor or anything like that, so I wont comment on anything like that.
What I WILL comment on is the assertion I've quoted above.
There are perfectly legitimate players who list Potions/other White items @ what would seem ridiculous prices. Reasons include: Splitting profits from Dungeon Runs, pooling resources to buy Crafting Assets for mutual use, and loaning AD to a friend to help get them started on their gear. ALL of these situations have occurred in my guild, so dont go insulting us by insinuating that we are cheaters/AD buyers.
Like I said, look at the price though. I used to do split runs too I get it, but how many times do you see one player with 10 auctions up all for 1 mil B/O from the same dude.....
And usually theres multiple names who do this sort of thing, I thought it was funny and why I point it out. Obviously its an issue or they wouldnt have had the DEV post about it and you wouldnt see spammers this much in PE or the random mail you get sayng "hi friend, NW AD 1M $8.99" or w.e....
I also hear alot of ppl talking about this outside of game about the best places to buy etc.... So I know its going on and not just in small quantities...
Im not saying any white item posted for 1mil = a cheater. I am saying if 1 player has 20 auctions up for 1 mil each, then yea chances are high he bought outside PWE...
No worries, mate. No blood, no foul
Related to your concerns about pricing and providing value to people paying actual cash, I'm curious to see if we get a cash-only pack for module 4 similar to the Guardian/HotN/Feywild packs. I don't think it was coincidental that these packs, which are about the only things you can't exchange in game currency to obtain, are the items that seem to offer the most value for your $$. I'd love to see a warlock or dragon themed pack, and I'm sure a lot of people would happily plunk some cash down for, say, an account-wide purple demon companion and drake mount.
Anyway, I'm about out for the day. Peace.
Im all for this, you know ill be getting one!
Yes things like this that PWE has a "competitive advantage" - in this case nobody else can even buy them.
I know A.V. mentioned lockboxes are the biggest sales items, probably because of people buying zen for keys to open them. Im merely just wanting Cryptic to get as much as they can out of the game.
More profits = more and better content for us! So this IS somewhat selfish of me, but I do also believe they should be paid well for what they do well. Which is why im not against AD being worth less and zen being worth more.
I can say Im sure Cryptic is making money and this is one of their products. So I would hope they take the time and consideration of the entire playerbase when making large sweeping changes. (but we know companies in general will do what they do, to you know make the bottomline)
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I'll disagree at the suggestion of removing cap. It will only devalue everything. Goldspammers will always always undercut.
This same thing happened in diablo 3's real money auction house.
People, let us LEARN from history, not make the same mistake again.