If you are not a DC... and you have troubles with CWs killing you in 1vs1 situations... you are doing it VERY wrong.
I know you have a serious downer on CW in PvP, but in general PuG PvP CWs win 1v1s. Quite a lot. Sometimes even on contested nodes.
The FOTM HR build relies on two short-ranged attacks - CA and TW. If the CW doesn't care about standing on the node then both are useless. If an HR is rooted their survivability drops dramatically. And they have no CC break ability.
Unfortunately a high HP and healing build is pretty much required regardless of class or role. The other stuff is more flexible. If you don't like the PF 'regen tank' you can run a variant with more ranged encounters - in fact I rotate between the two depending on the make up of the opposing team (PF Tank is not good vs ranged classes).
There are some good discussions in The Wilds with a bunch of ideas. You might find something there that suits your playstyle preferences. But L60 PvP enjoyment is a bit of a lottery if you only PuG. I've had losing streaks running to 6 or 7 games, most of which were complete ROFLSTOMPS, between burst of balanced games and wins. Luck of the draw.
I basically only do PuGs in PvP, so yeah, I'm pretty much boned.
In the end so far it sounding more and more like I'm mostly out geared and am lacking the correct stat boosts. Still don't have an answer on how to avoid perma-stealthed rogues. Thorn Ward seems to be the only way for me to deal with them by allowing me to find them if they're in the zone (and I don't pick them up too late.
Timing dodges is the only way to escape from a CW or GWF and that's mostly luck or simply getting the jump on them.
A few notes for folks:
1) People keep mentioning Binding Arrow/Oakskin but I find the ranged power to be absolute garbage. The roots never seem to proc. The melee power is a great free heal though.
2) Does anyone else have the same issue with Forest Ghost where you activate the power, get the animation but never go stealth? Is there a bug or am I not using it under the right conditions? I know I've seen other HR's use it, the animation goes off, but they never enter stealth.
I basically only do PuGs in PvP, so yeah, I'm pretty much boned.
You are not boned, HRs is one of the best classes that can carry a pug. Just ask people to give you the FOTM pathfinder spec, respec to that, learn the rotations and what you should do against certain classes...
invest in your gear....
And then you will pretty much rule in PvP. At least, until they will nerf the PvP sets.
A few notes for folks:
1) People keep mentioning Binding Arrow/Oakskin but I find the ranged power to be absolute garbage. The roots never seem to proc. The melee power is a great free heal though.
2) Does anyone else have the same issue with Forest Ghost where you activate the power, get the animation but never go stealth? Is there a bug or am I not using it under the right conditions? I know I've seen other HR's use it, the animation goes off, but they never enter stealth.
Binding Arrow is one of our most damaging ranged encounters. The roots proc depends on distance between you and the target - they're far more likely to proc at close range. I've started to use it to anchor people within my TW. The free heal is great also.
Forest Ghost has a cast time. You can be interrupted during that time and not stealth. Also, if you dodge during the cast animation you will not stealth. Basically - don't try and use it in close combat.
I cant understand HR complain about PVP
seen some HR that are impossible to kill in ice wind PVP, we were 3 GWF, DC and CW and one HR still kept is life on max and at the end kill the DC (me), I don't know what happen next... I didn't came back
to be honest HR need some balance in PVE rather in PVP, I cant figure what they do in PVE and CW is much more effective and easy to work with
many HR start to be only PVP character now, so far they are the only one that complain in PVP about kill steal (I never saw GWF/GF/CW/TR complain about it, but again I manage to heal them much better so I guess they don't mind if I do a kill here and there)
I basically only do PuGs in PvP, so yeah, I'm pretty much boned.
In the end so far it sounding more and more like I'm mostly out geared and am lacking the correct stat boosts. Still don't have an answer on how to avoid perma-stealthed rogues. Thorn Ward seems to be the only way for me to deal with them by allowing me to find them if they're in the zone (and I don't pick them up too late.
Timing dodges is the only way to escape from a CW or GWF and that's mostly luck or simply getting the jump on them.
A few notes for folks:
1) People keep mentioning Binding Arrow/Oakskin but I find the ranged power to be absolute garbage. The roots never seem to proc. The melee power is a great free heal though.
2) Does anyone else have the same issue with Forest Ghost where you activate the power, get the animation but never go stealth? Is there a bug or am I not using it under the right conditions? I know I've seen other HR's use it, the animation goes off, but they never enter stealth.
Only pug here, feel the same. Only RARELY my dmg is consistent with the numbers showed in tooltips: else is aimshot CRITTING for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> = overgeared A LOT. I'm on page 2000 XD
1)the roots apply...only at mid/melee distance. Really. No joke. Useful. Besides any melee can still "jump" at you "stretching them" so you still need to move back wasting time (you know the LONG duration of these effects, like max 3 secs...)
2)FG is pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, ALSO because of said bug
For the perma-radar I thought about...StS. Never tried though, I don't have the guts to slot it just for that
Halflingas The Great - Stormwarden HR(60)
0
degraafinationMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The HR class is a huge pain for all my toons, GWF, TR, CW...
However, compared to other people, I understand one thing:
If we bring a substantial nerf to HR, what else will we achieve but consolidate GWF supremacy for DPSing people down and TR supremacy at trolling 1vsX on node. HR right now is the balance to these OP classes.
No changes should be performed on HR without careful consideration and balance passes on GWF and TR as well.
Sadly, a fix (not really a nerf) is coming to their OP armor set, making it subject to healing depression and putting an ITC on the healing from deflect.
We'll see if the Purified BI Armor will be a decent substitute. I'm hoping so. Right now HR is the primary counter to perma-TRs and GWFs.
Sadly, a fix (not really a nerf) is coming to their OP armor set, making it subject to healing depression and putting an ITC on the healing from deflect.
We'll see if the Purified BI Armor will be a decent substitute. I'm hoping so. Right now HR is the primary counter to perma-TRs and GWFs.
Sadly, a fix (not really a nerf) is coming to their OP armor set, making it subject to healing depression and putting an ITC on the healing from deflect.
We'll see if the Purified BI Armor will be a decent substitute. I'm hoping so. Right now HR is the primary counter to perma-TRs and GWFs.
It's actually a fix plus two nerfs. Making it subject to Healing Depression is a fix; adding a 2 second ICD and reducing the proc rate by a third is nerfing, pure and simple. The really annoying thing is that the nerfs are to compensate for a bug that's been around since before the HR was introduced - deflect-based boons/powers triggering from invisible non-combat effects. This is the bug that makes anyone with the Fey Thistle boon jump in and out of combat stance randomly. With the HR set bonus it means constant random healing procs even when not being attacked. Rather then fix the core issue they've added two nerfs to help mask it - which unfortunately makes the set bonus useless for it's original function.
goldroger007Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
i miss the old pvp where TRs were supposed to deal heavy dmage, where DCs were supposed to heal, where Cws were supposed to CC,where GFs where supposed to defend themselves not just wait for their death, where GWFS where supposed to have less CC than a CW, less dps than a TR,less healing than a DC,less tankier than a GF, less range than an HR? xD
i miss the old pvp where TRs were supposed to deal heavy dmage, where DCs were supposed to heal, where Cws were supposed to CC,where GFs where supposed to defend themselves not just wait for their death, where GWFS where supposed to have less CC than a CW, less dps than a TR,less healing than a DC,less tankier than a GF, less range than an HR? xD
You mean the old PVP where TR was king and dealt an absurd damage from Lashing?
Each class has a "peak" spec, where it performs at the maximum of its capabilities. My belief is the classes should be judged from that and that only, because that spec (which includes gear) has proven itself most effective at a time. "premade" here is used only to illustrate that the 10 people on that particular game use their toons at the maximum of their PvP capability, or at least near-maximum.
You cannot judge the CW class from a few PvE spec people with 25K HP that hit like trucks and die in 5 secs. They are a non-factor in any serious game.
You cannot judge the HR class from ranged-only, "I snipe you for 15K when I'm lucky", Syn-type of squish-archer-build. They are a non factor in serious games.
This goes for each and every class.
CWs are extremely dangerous, for ANY class, not just HR... in a 2vs1 situation. I know this so very good from my GWF, good CWs that come to clear me with their mates are annoying as hell. Rest assured that when I catch them alone they are as good as dead though.
The same should be correct for a properly built HR. The CA DoT is ticking like crazy, Constrict allows for FS and aim strike which further propagates the DoT, and if you get some lucky crits on the HR, well, they will go on Meditating. By the time they are out, their CDs are refreshed, and even if you stay off node, they will still get you as a CW in the end.
Now, if the HR is bad, a CW will kill it easily.
Just as a general "rule", for equally geared toons:
If you are not a DC... and you have troubles with CWs killing you in 1vs1 situations... you are doing it VERY wrong.
wrong... my aimed shot base damage is over 10K (from distance with 20% increase archery dmg, plus add also the dmg from terror)... a 15K aimed shot is for me a unlucky shot
my lucky shots are in 20-21K (and over) range.
and u are also wrong on 1 vs 1 HR versus CW... in my over 2200 deaths I die only 5 times 1 vs 1 against HRs (and 3 times was my mistakes or overconfidence)... but I die alot more agaist CWs.
Different combat styles:
HR vs HR is a slow and low damage fight... my superior heal+regen+tanky+defence buff and 3 CCs damaging powers istant cast win always.
HR vs CW is a fast and brutal fight (so my very good regen and heal have lesser impact and my HR powers have a long CD... 15-18 seconds... rarely I can use more that 1 times)... CW daze negate the HR "I win button" dodges and the only important things is distance... I give more damage and I are out of the range for most the short range CW powers.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
wrong... my aimed shot base damage is over 10K (from distance with 20% increase archery dmg, plus add also the dmg from terror)... a 15K aimed shot is for me a unlucky shot
my lucky shots are in 20-21K (and over) range.
and u are also wrong on 1 vs 1 HR versus CW... in my over 2200 deaths I die only 5 times 1 vs 1 against HRs (and 3 times was my mistakes or overconfidence)... but I die alot more agaist CWs.
Different combat styles:
HR vs HR is a slow and low damage fight... my superior heal+regen+tanky+defence buff and 3 damaging powers istant cast win always.
HR vs CW is a fast and brutal fight (so my very good regen and heal have lesser impact and my HR powers have a long CD... 15-18 seconds... rarely I can use more that 1 times)... CW daze (if land) negate the HR "I win button" dodges and the only important things is distance... I give more damage and I are out of the range for most the short range CW powers.
In PvP the CW class features and performances are destroyed by GWFs, but is at the top against all others classes.
PS: megalomane at work... quote a my post
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
In PvP the CW class features and performances are destroyed by GWFs, but is at the top against all others classes.
PS: megalomane at work... quote a my post
Lol XD
My problem vs CW is that...once you go up you rarely go down ALIVE. 20%ten, 30%DR, Halfling race+Lesser Elven battle and I still seem to hang up like a drying sock
(also with 150 ping vs who knows, as soon as I hear the "ding ding" of the IK, I dodge, but never did I manage to avoid it. Maybe once)
I agree. I think GWFs and to a lesser extent, perma-TRs get a lot of flak. Most of it is justified, but HRs are surprisingly one of the most versatile classes that have no problem filling any role and beating any class 1v1.
In PvP the CW class features and performances are destroyed by GWFs, but is at the top against all others classes.
Haha... right. A good HR (unlike you) destroys CWs all day long, maybe even with their eye closed. Syn you're dragging yourself deeper into ridiculousness each post. You know you have most losses on the board, right?
Newsflash:
This game is NOT about kills, it is about WINNING.
Tutorial:
"B-but, how do I win games in Neverwinter, mommy?"
"Well, you win them by contesting points and capping, dear son".
Haha... right. A good HR (unlike you) destroys CWs all day long, maybe even with their eye closed. Syn you're dragging yourself deeper into ridiculousness each post. You know you have most losses on the board, right?
Newsflash:
This game is NOT about kills, it is about WINNING.
Tutorial:
"B-but, how do I win games in Neverwinter, mommy?"
"Well, you win them by contesting points and capping, dear son".
PFT... using ur meter of judgment Im also the 2°-3° as wins... 3°-4° as number of kills... 1° as number of assists... Im in the 5 first positions (and 1° HR) for all stats (missing only the first page as deaths, but I work hard also for that).
using ur meter of judgment Im at the same time the best and the worst HR of the server
One the big problem for a pure pug guy that fight in the 50-100 page range agaist in 1/2-2/3 of cases premade (apart my low gear score) is that rarely u fight 5 vs 5... there is always a guy afk, disconnect, log out for dont lose rank etc etc... premade teams dont have this handicap... and teamwork/teamspeak give also another big advantage to premade.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
One the big problem for a pure pug guy that fight in the 50-100 page range agaist in 2/3 of cases premade (apart my low gear score) is that rarely u fight 5 vs 5... there is always a guy afk, disconnect, log out for dont lose rank etc etc... premade teams dont have this handicap... and teamwork/teamspeak give also another big advantage to premade.
Pugging alone ends rarely against full premades. Mostly one side looses because of one or two very inexpierenced players in that team. A 7k gs newbie with greens or a class cannon build who hunts kills and never steps on a node.… oh wait…
Toh... another sage that dispense pearls of wisdom... interessing... so u fight outside nodes, mine at 90% fight in the middle of the node.
PS: and not... if the pug have the right combination: 1-2 CW, 1-2 HR, 1-2 TR (surprise no GWFs) usually steamroll the enemy premade.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited June 2014
Encountered the infamous Pathfinder/Pathfinder/GWF/GWF/DC premade combo. Don't even need to say what happened...
And the matchmaking is beyond stupid, or non-existent... I was grouped with another DC 3 times in a row, with CWs and stormwardens. The other team got GFs or GWFs, or TR cheese. Real balanced...
I agree. I think GWFs and to a lesser extent, perma-TRs get a lot of flak. Most of it is justified, but HRs are surprisingly one of the most versatile classes that have no problem filling any role and beating any class 1v1.
That maybe true but you don't fix the sink when your roof is leaking, GWF are far and away the biggest issue right now as it takes a really good HR to be AWESOME! It takes just a decent geared GWF to tear through a team.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
How high should the average GS for newbies in pvp be? I am asking because i would like to pvp, again but i am not sure if my GS (12734) is ok, or too low.
Well GWFs counter everything except HR 1v1, and are the best class for group play. TR is great at node contesting and can kill most classes fairly easily.
What he meant is that right now there's 3 viable classes. If it turns out that we can't 1v1 GWFs or TRs or contest nodes without the set bonus, there's only going to be 2 viable classes for pvp (like how there's only 2 really for PVE- insane!)
How high should the average GS for newbies in pvp be? I am asking because i would like to pvp, again but i am not sure if my GS (12734) is ok, or too low.
It's fine imo. It's actually quite good for a newbie in pvp compared to some. You're going to get your butt handed to you no matter what until you get some tenacity gear though.
Dunno how to put this to you, but PvP guilds do not consist of 500 people (besides two of them). Sometimes, people PvE (gloves/mainhand hunt anyone?), or are busy farming IRL.
So you end up alone, and bored, and wanting to PvP.
You queue, and find what?
Four people that have no idea whatsoever about what they should be doing, using wrong encounters, having below 10K GS, without weapon or armor enchants, fighting off red points, not understanding English, and if they do, they are no willing to learn and listen. Absolutely clueless individuals.
And yes, they lose the game for you, by fighting 4 vs a perma and other inane strategies. Don't get me started on the pugs that follow me so they can cap empty points that I clear, and run from any battles.
So you expect us to be happy about it?
Pugs should at least listen and try to improve.
Yet they choose instead to troll us, and straightforward sabotage the game.
What about people who dont have the time to play NVW long enough to get bored lol, you know people with jobs etc? I have a few hours at best after work to get some gaming done and my PVP is mostly in the form of random Dom PuGs ? I think the way teams are build in Dom queue needs work ( at the least take GS into account )
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comments
The FOTM HR build relies on two short-ranged attacks - CA and TW. If the CW doesn't care about standing on the node then both are useless. If an HR is rooted their survivability drops dramatically. And they have no CC break ability.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I basically only do PuGs in PvP, so yeah, I'm pretty much boned.
In the end so far it sounding more and more like I'm mostly out geared and am lacking the correct stat boosts. Still don't have an answer on how to avoid perma-stealthed rogues. Thorn Ward seems to be the only way for me to deal with them by allowing me to find them if they're in the zone (and I don't pick them up too late.
Timing dodges is the only way to escape from a CW or GWF and that's mostly luck or simply getting the jump on them.
A few notes for folks:
1) People keep mentioning Binding Arrow/Oakskin but I find the ranged power to be absolute garbage. The roots never seem to proc. The melee power is a great free heal though.
2) Does anyone else have the same issue with Forest Ghost where you activate the power, get the animation but never go stealth? Is there a bug or am I not using it under the right conditions? I know I've seen other HR's use it, the animation goes off, but they never enter stealth.
You are not boned, HRs is one of the best classes that can carry a pug. Just ask people to give you the FOTM pathfinder spec, respec to that, learn the rotations and what you should do against certain classes...
invest in your gear....
And then you will pretty much rule in PvP. At least, until they will nerf the PvP sets.
Forest Ghost has a cast time. You can be interrupted during that time and not stealth. Also, if you dodge during the cast animation you will not stealth. Basically - don't try and use it in close combat.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Let's please do keep this in the frame of a discussion rather than arguing over "I'm better than you".
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
seen some HR that are impossible to kill in ice wind PVP, we were 3 GWF, DC and CW and one HR still kept is life on max and at the end kill the DC (me), I don't know what happen next... I didn't came back
to be honest HR need some balance in PVE rather in PVP, I cant figure what they do in PVE and CW is much more effective and easy to work with
many HR start to be only PVP character now, so far they are the only one that complain in PVP about kill steal (I never saw GWF/GF/CW/TR complain about it, but again I manage to heal them much better so I guess they don't mind if I do a kill here and there)
Only pug here, feel the same. Only RARELY my dmg is consistent with the numbers showed in tooltips: else is aimshot CRITTING for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> = overgeared A LOT. I'm on page 2000 XD
1)the roots apply...only at mid/melee distance. Really. No joke. Useful. Besides any melee can still "jump" at you "stretching them" so you still need to move back wasting time (you know the LONG duration of these effects, like max 3 secs...)
2)FG is pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, ALSO because of said bug
For the perma-radar I thought about...StS. Never tried though, I don't have the guts to slot it just for that
Sadly, a fix (not really a nerf) is coming to their OP armor set, making it subject to healing depression and putting an ITC on the healing from deflect.
We'll see if the Purified BI Armor will be a decent substitute. I'm hoping so. Right now HR is the primary counter to perma-TRs and GWFs.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
right now, HRs counter anything.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
You mean the old PVP where TR was king and dealt an absurd damage from Lashing?
Yeah no thanks
Well if we get a nerf on stealth Expect it coming back mate .
well before they could kill u easy but u could kill them easy, now u have gwf, they can kill u easy and u cant even take their hp down to 80%
wrong... my aimed shot base damage is over 10K (from distance with 20% increase archery dmg, plus add also the dmg from terror)... a 15K aimed shot is for me a unlucky shot
my lucky shots are in 20-21K (and over) range.
and u are also wrong on 1 vs 1 HR versus CW... in my over 2200 deaths I die only 5 times 1 vs 1 against HRs (and 3 times was my mistakes or overconfidence)... but I die alot more agaist CWs.
Different combat styles:
HR vs HR is a slow and low damage fight... my superior heal+regen+tanky+defence buff and 3 CCs damaging powers istant cast win always.
HR vs CW is a fast and brutal fight (so my very good regen and heal have lesser impact and my HR powers have a long CD... 15-18 seconds... rarely I can use more that 1 times)... CW daze negate the HR "I win button" dodges and the only important things is distance... I give more damage and I are out of the range for most the short range CW powers.
In PvP the CW class features and performances are destroyed by GWFs, but is at the top against all others classes.
PS: megalomane at work... quote a my post
Lol XD
My problem vs CW is that...once you go up you rarely go down ALIVE. 20%ten, 30%DR, Halfling race+Lesser Elven battle and I still seem to hang up like a drying sock
(also with 150 ping vs who knows, as soon as I hear the "ding ding" of the IK, I dodge, but never did I manage to avoid it. Maybe once)
I agree. I think GWFs and to a lesser extent, perma-TRs get a lot of flak. Most of it is justified, but HRs are surprisingly one of the most versatile classes that have no problem filling any role and beating any class 1v1.
Haha... right. A good HR (unlike you) destroys CWs all day long, maybe even with their eye closed. Syn you're dragging yourself deeper into ridiculousness each post. You know you have most losses on the board, right?
Newsflash:
This game is NOT about kills, it is about WINNING.
Tutorial:
"B-but, how do I win games in Neverwinter, mommy?"
"Well, you win them by contesting points and capping, dear son".
that would leave tr ballanced even with stealth.
PFT... using ur meter of judgment Im also the 2°-3° as wins... 3°-4° as number of kills... 1° as number of assists... Im in the 5 first positions (and 1° HR) for all stats (missing only the first page as deaths, but I work hard also for that).
using ur meter of judgment Im at the same time the best and the worst HR of the server
One the big problem for a pure pug guy that fight in the 50-100 page range agaist in 1/2-2/3 of cases premade (apart my low gear score) is that rarely u fight 5 vs 5... there is always a guy afk, disconnect, log out for dont lose rank etc etc... premade teams dont have this handicap... and teamwork/teamspeak give also another big advantage to premade.
Pugging alone ends rarely against full premades. Mostly one side looses because of one or two very inexpierenced players in that team. A 7k gs newbie with greens or a class cannon build who hunts kills and never steps on a node.… oh wait…
PS: and not... if the pug have the right combination: 1-2 CW, 1-2 HR, 1-2 TR (surprise no GWFs) usually steamroll the enemy premade.
And the matchmaking is beyond stupid, or non-existent... I was grouped with another DC 3 times in a row, with CWs and stormwardens. The other team got GFs or GWFs, or TR cheese. Real balanced...
That maybe true but you don't fix the sink when your roof is leaking, GWF are far and away the biggest issue right now as it takes a really good HR to be AWESOME! It takes just a decent geared GWF to tear through a team.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Well GWFs counter everything except HR 1v1, and are the best class for group play. TR is great at node contesting and can kill most classes fairly easily.
What he meant is that right now there's 3 viable classes. If it turns out that we can't 1v1 GWFs or TRs or contest nodes without the set bonus, there's only going to be 2 viable classes for pvp (like how there's only 2 really for PVE- insane!)
It's fine imo. It's actually quite good for a newbie in pvp compared to some. You're going to get your butt handed to you no matter what until you get some tenacity gear though.
What about people who dont have the time to play NVW long enough to get bored lol, you know people with jobs etc? I have a few hours at best after work to get some gaming done and my PVP is mostly in the form of random Dom PuGs ? I think the way teams are build in Dom queue needs work ( at the least take GS into account )
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.