Agreed. Range classes rely on dodges to have a chance against GWFs. Roar takes that chance away.
My Harem: Dawn HR, Erin CW, Piper TR, Zoe GWF
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited May 2014
Big difference between root and stun effect .
The root is slow y down and if y walk draw y back "if y use sprint y can speed up " But if y are affected by multi root y will draw back no matter what unstoppable or not .
Also HR root go to shild its realy sad GF must activate a second cc break daly to escape the effect .
For me its another bug .
Do NOT ask the Dev's to fix the GF terrifying impact.... Jesus, what else do you want the f'n class to do? It is the most useless class in the game, can't hit as hard as the others, and when it can it just gets killed in 1 rotation by a good player lol..... If anything give it like 5 seconds prone, and put it on a cooldown to give the GF's a chance lol....
I understand, GWF roar is kinda stupid right now. But seeing how the new HR builds are even MORE stupid, maybe you should stop thinking about nerfing one of the few things that can keep them in check. I get it, he is a system's designer so most of the fixes end up making them WAY better, IE - Power fix/new HR class, GWF sent nerf leading to stupid good damage gwf's who are just as tanky almost and HR's that have more deflec/tank ability, regen, and same damage output as before. All after nerfs lol.
While were on the subject, think the GF can get a nerf? Maybe faster at wills, prones that actually last to make us usefull again, a bull charge that can knock people off point again so we are usefull at end caps, and maybe some deflection for crying out loud lol. GWF's and HR's and Rogues can get 50% more deflection than us with less than half the stats in it. Explain that?
I digress, sorry if that comes off rude. But you dev's need to start asking the high end pvp players what is bugged, listen to both sides, and make a call because frankly you are terrible at having any clue as to what to do to balance anything in PVP. Now I mean that with total respect, but the first way to get over an issue or a problem is admitting that you have one. I'm sure the community would even feel some sympathy for the admittance of a mistake even? Idk, just a thought. Happy Hunting!
While were on the subject, think the GF can get a nerf? Maybe faster at wills, prones that actually last to make us usefull again, a bull charge that can knock people off point again so we are usefull at end caps, and maybe some deflection for crying out loud lol. GWF's and HR's and Rogues can get 50% more deflection than us with less than half the stats in it. Explain that?
That is called a "buff", rather than a "nerf". It is possible that the inability to make this basic distinction is what has lead to the Guardian Fighter's current parlous state
That is called a "buff", rather than a "nerf". It is possible that the inability to make this basic distinction is what has lead to the Guardian Fighter's current parlous state
Haha, I know I know. I am just wanting to get the same type of "nerf" that GWF and HR got man. GWF vs HR last mod was a good freaking fight. CW's vs GWF if the cw was good, was an awesome fight. Now it is kinda silly. I just want them to go ahead and nerf TR's and GF's and CW's the way that HR's and GWF's get nerfed. They could really use it.
Don't tell them this, but I am saying nerf because their nerfs are usually not thought out at all, nor do they go to the test shard and watch how abused they are. Also, because if I mention buff, it gets deleted, or ignored, just go to the GF channel and count dev posts, vs the HR or GWF. it is probably 1,000 to 1 and that is not a joke.
Agreed. Range classes rely on dodges to have a chance against GWFs. Roar takes that chance away.
Yeah well the insane number of dodges a ranger has will outlast a GWFs sprint meter. And for swordmaster GWFs, specifically, might as well be a training dummy to ranged classes.
How bout rangers only get 4 dodges if roar is nerfed?
Haha, I know I know. I am just wanting to get the same type of "nerf" that GWF and HR got man. GWF vs HR last mod was a good freaking fight. CW's vs GWF if the cw was good, was an awesome fight. Now it is kinda silly. I just want them to go ahead and nerf TR's and GF's and CW's the way that HR's and GWF's get nerfed. They could really use it.
For PvE, maybe. A permabile is still a complete menace in PvP, though. It's really hard to explain to new players why TRs can remain in stealth and continue attacking, and explain that no, you don't know what "they were smoking". I don't think the class was ever designed to work like that- but ended up that way due to a series of botched adjustments.
all you hear now if you get into GG the wrong time are teams of 4-5 gwf's running around and screaming to make sure everyone is kept down while they pummel them away.
It's bad design enough that a gwf can pop "invincible" (<--- pun intended) over and over during a fight with just mere seconds in between and that they can covardly runawayandheal at the same time..
To really spice things up I would say that:
Selfhealing-skills (apart from lifesteal) and roar should be removed totally when you're flagged for pvp, now and for good. That way the lowly DC might actually get some love sometimes too.
Though you are technically correct about recovery, relentless battle fury lowers cooldown by 25% (I believe), so that PLUS the RSI from recovery = near enough a halved cooldown.
Agreed. Range classes rely on dodges to have a chance against GWFs. Roar takes that chance away.
You know... Just a little perspective is that roar is what allows you to catch ranged classes. Classes like TR/CW/HR and even DC that have the dodge mechanic can easily dodge out of takedown. IBS is WAY too slow to ever hit a decent player not stunned or prone, which made Roar actually a decent encounter -> ranged stun allowing to close the gap and THEN prone.
I have played against good CWs that effectively damage you up while NOT in unstoppable with CC, then when you pop unstoppable, they kite you around with 5-6 "blinks" while it wears off. The ONLY saving grace has been roar+takedown.
Im not saying it shouldnt be fixed... I AM saying that with the squishy-ness of the *NEW GWF when you add classes like HR that can "perma dodge" or class like TR with "perma stealth" or even CWs who seem to be able to blink for days... It can be VERY hard to catch them with a prone like takedown and almsot impossible to hit something with IBS that is NOT proned...
I wont be surprised if this forces people back to frontline surge to enable the same type of thing.
IMO what was broken about roar wasnt necessarily the stun, but the fact it ignored CC immunity AND the duration of the stun.
If they brought Roar back to a mod 1 like stun I think itd be pretty balanced. That and reduce the CD reduction feat to maybe like 30% instead of 50% (which btw is really like a 25%ish CD reduction the way Cryptic does it)
You know... Just a little perspective is that roar is what allows you to catch ranged classes. Classes like TR/CW/HR and even DC that have the dodge mechanic can easily dodge out of takedown. IBS is WAY too slow to ever hit a decent player not stunned or prone, which made Roar actually a decent encounter -> ranged stun allowing to close the gap and THEN prone.
I have played against good CWs that effectively damage you up while NOT in unstoppable with CC, then when you pop unstoppable, they kite you around with 5-6 "blinks" while it wears off. The ONLY saving grace has been roar+takedown.
Im not saying it shouldnt be fixed... I AM saying that with the squishy-ness of the *NEW GWF when you add classes like HR that can "perma dodge" or class like TR with "perma stealth" or even CWs who seem to be able to blink for days... It can be VERY hard to catch them with a prone like takedown and almsot impossible to hit something with IBS that is NOT proned...
I wont be surprised if this forces people back to frontline surge to enable the same type of thing.
IMO what was broken about roar wasnt necessarily the stun, but the fact it ignored CC immunity AND the duration of the stun.
If they brought Roar back to a mod 1 like stun I think itd be pretty balanced. That and reduce the CD reduction feat to maybe like 30% instead of 50% (which btw is really like a 25%ish CD reduction the way Cryptic does it)
Man if you need Roar to beat a CW on a GWF I don't know what to tell you.
There should be no opposition to this change seeing as roar has been widely recognized as a bugged skill and was rarely used prior to the recent GWF changes. Any GWF not using roar now is already in a much stronger place than other classes regardless (except HR, but they are also getting changes in the future which would bring them under GWF capability as well.) This is definitely a powerful and important fix for moving towards PvP balance with the recent rise in popularity of this skill.
Its bugged. If you feel someone is exploiting it, you can report them in-game.
Exploiting it... By like using it in PVP?
If simply using a bugged core-skill is exploiting, maybe it should be hot-fixed quickly instead of punishing players that would be using it if it were 'bugged' or not?
it has been acknowledged that roar is bugged and will get a fix. whether using it until then is considered a reportable exploit, use your own discretion but do keep in mind that PWE has sole discretion on what is and isn't an exploit as well as what actions they will take on your reports.
since there has been an acknowledgement from the dev team, i'm going to shut this thread down.
Comments
Agreed. Range classes rely on dodges to have a chance against GWFs. Roar takes that chance away.
The root is slow y down and if y walk draw y back "if y use sprint y can speed up " But if y are affected by multi root y will draw back no matter what unstoppable or not .
Also HR root go to shild its realy sad GF must activate a second cc break daly to escape the effect .
For me its another bug .
I understand, GWF roar is kinda stupid right now. But seeing how the new HR builds are even MORE stupid, maybe you should stop thinking about nerfing one of the few things that can keep them in check. I get it, he is a system's designer so most of the fixes end up making them WAY better, IE - Power fix/new HR class, GWF sent nerf leading to stupid good damage gwf's who are just as tanky almost and HR's that have more deflec/tank ability, regen, and same damage output as before. All after nerfs lol.
While were on the subject, think the GF can get a nerf? Maybe faster at wills, prones that actually last to make us usefull again, a bull charge that can knock people off point again so we are usefull at end caps, and maybe some deflection for crying out loud lol. GWF's and HR's and Rogues can get 50% more deflection than us with less than half the stats in it. Explain that?
I digress, sorry if that comes off rude. But you dev's need to start asking the high end pvp players what is bugged, listen to both sides, and make a call because frankly you are terrible at having any clue as to what to do to balance anything in PVP. Now I mean that with total respect, but the first way to get over an issue or a problem is admitting that you have one. I'm sure the community would even feel some sympathy for the admittance of a mistake even? Idk, just a thought. Happy Hunting!
That is called a "buff", rather than a "nerf". It is possible that the inability to make this basic distinction is what has lead to the Guardian Fighter's current parlous state
Haha, I know I know. I am just wanting to get the same type of "nerf" that GWF and HR got man. GWF vs HR last mod was a good freaking fight. CW's vs GWF if the cw was good, was an awesome fight. Now it is kinda silly. I just want them to go ahead and nerf TR's and GF's and CW's the way that HR's and GWF's get nerfed. They could really use it.
Don't tell them this, but I am saying nerf because their nerfs are usually not thought out at all, nor do they go to the test shard and watch how abused they are. Also, because if I mention buff, it gets deleted, or ignored, just go to the GF channel and count dev posts, vs the HR or GWF. it is probably 1,000 to 1 and that is not a joke.
Yeah well the insane number of dodges a ranger has will outlast a GWFs sprint meter. And for swordmaster GWFs, specifically, might as well be a training dummy to ranged classes.
How bout rangers only get 4 dodges if roar is nerfed?
For PvE, maybe. A permabile is still a complete menace in PvP, though. It's really hard to explain to new players why TRs can remain in stealth and continue attacking, and explain that no, you don't know what "they were smoking". I don't think the class was ever designed to work like that- but ended up that way due to a series of botched adjustments.
Justin Umberhulk will be along in a moment to cry you a river. Check the rankings some time.
It's bad design enough that a gwf can pop "invincible" (<--- pun intended) over and over during a fight with just mere seconds in between and that they can covardly runawayandheal at the same time..
To really spice things up I would say that:
Selfhealing-skills (apart from lifesteal) and roar should be removed totally when you're flagged for pvp, now and for good. That way the lowly DC might actually get some love sometimes too.
IMHO
/Urd
It cannot. To halve cooldown time you'd need a recharge speed increase of 100%.
Though you are technically correct about recovery, relentless battle fury lowers cooldown by 25% (I believe), so that PLUS the RSI from recovery = near enough a halved cooldown.
You know... Just a little perspective is that roar is what allows you to catch ranged classes. Classes like TR/CW/HR and even DC that have the dodge mechanic can easily dodge out of takedown. IBS is WAY too slow to ever hit a decent player not stunned or prone, which made Roar actually a decent encounter -> ranged stun allowing to close the gap and THEN prone.
I have played against good CWs that effectively damage you up while NOT in unstoppable with CC, then when you pop unstoppable, they kite you around with 5-6 "blinks" while it wears off. The ONLY saving grace has been roar+takedown.
Im not saying it shouldnt be fixed... I AM saying that with the squishy-ness of the *NEW GWF when you add classes like HR that can "perma dodge" or class like TR with "perma stealth" or even CWs who seem to be able to blink for days... It can be VERY hard to catch them with a prone like takedown and almsot impossible to hit something with IBS that is NOT proned...
I wont be surprised if this forces people back to frontline surge to enable the same type of thing.
IMO what was broken about roar wasnt necessarily the stun, but the fact it ignored CC immunity AND the duration of the stun.
If they brought Roar back to a mod 1 like stun I think itd be pretty balanced. That and reduce the CD reduction feat to maybe like 30% instead of 50% (which btw is really like a 25%ish CD reduction the way Cryptic does it)
Man if you need Roar to beat a CW on a GWF I don't know what to tell you.
Exploiting it... By like using it in PVP?
If simply using a bugged core-skill is exploiting, maybe it should be hot-fixed quickly instead of punishing players that would be using it if it were 'bugged' or not?
since there has been an acknowledgement from the dev team, i'm going to shut this thread down.