Pretty much you just learn to live with it, for now. As everyone else's pointed out, destroyer GWFs are currently broken. As even good GFs/non-destro GWFs are dying to them
Currently IV/Destro GWF has advantage over IV/Sent. But pre-mod 3 IV/Sent would beat current IV/Destro. Destro is generally better in group fights, and since many DCs just sit at 2 all match, I can see why many think they got buffed. IV/Destro lose a lot of ability to fight nodes 1 and 3 against TR and HR, but those DCs that just sit at 2 all day wouldn't know about that.
To kill them? First you run backwards, you slow them down with one of you encounters(forgemaster's flame or chains of blazing light), divine glow, brand of sun, daunting light, and shift when they get close or attack with a disable. when they get close to death hit them with your divine attack, but keep running.
As a DC it is not your job to kill them you heal others and buff them
You cannot run backwards, you can only kite while using Punishing Light.
Since the latest GWF buff, they seem immune to Forgemaster's Flame when mounted as even when I hit them on their horse as they approach and use a Divine Sunburst to blow them away, they knock me prone from 20 feet away, then fly off their horse and root and stun me. When on the ground, they can hit me from 20 feet away and dodging rarely works as they can hit me when I am WAY out of melee weapon range.
Clerics in Neverwinter are hopelessly broken as most of their powers are not healing powers at all, our damaging, buffing and debuffing powers are too weak and at least half the Feats are rubbish or do not work. And all the powers seem to involve Light and Sunlight, which is fine for a Priestess of Amaunator, but for a Drow Priestess of Lolth makes no sense at all as a Drow character should be blinding herself all the time.
The class is Cleric, not "Healer". Check out the 2nd edition AD&D "Complete Priests Handbook", "Faiths and Avatars" and similar books in the 3E and 4E series for different types of Priesthoods. Different builds should be possible in Neverwinter as well.
My AC Tiefling is level 60 and Feated for Healing and survives much longer with damaging Powers slotted because PUG Teams usually run off and leave her in the lurch, step outside an Invigorated Healing blue Astral Shield, run off badly injured during the casting of Sunburst and Bastion of Health and do not seem to understand what a Moon Touched Hallowed Ground does - yes! They even manage to step outside THAT area as well. Then I get "What? No Heals, DC?" from a Rogue I have never seen who just died on the enemy Home Node.
Early on, she often tops the scoreboard as well, but then gets gang-banged by the other team as soon as she does something useful.
My latest character is a level 43 DO Dwarf, Feated for Battle, and he is much more successful. Has 4 Triple Kills and 9 Double Kills and has topped the scoreboard on the winning team several times and got the free gear prize - although usually something for a CW or TR . But he is still minced by GWFs who seem to be immune to EVERYTHING at the moment due to a bug.
But he is almost always top of everything in Skirmishes and Dungeon Delves, and certainly top Paingiver if not Executioner. I have been trying to do the Wolf Den delve all week, and always get in right at the end as someone has dropped out due to multiple wipes. Last time, there were only THREE of us, and we beat the swine. So, if two were disconnected when I joined and someone else had left the party due to wiping multiple time, my DO joins and we win with only three players, I think he must have turned the tide.
I have a level 60 Dwarven AC, a level 60 Tiefling AC and a level 31 Halfling AC, and they have never come close, although the Battle-Feated Dwarf survives longer then the Healing-Feated Tiefling.
"I am the Wrath of Clanggeddin!
Heal yer feckin' selves!"
~
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
edited May 2014
I hear ya,
I see that as well, even the stepping outside of the freaking hallowed ground, how they manage that when I lay it in the center then chase poeple around pillars ect.
Up to Mod 3, I found a AC traited tanky DC a solid build, now its not , hrs and gwfs can blow you up any day of the week, not to mention the TR/CW ganking and ccing/dazing you to death.
DCs can and do make a huge difference, in a solid built team, but alot of pug matches do not have that, my now AC traited DC at 15k cant kill anyone really, except the very worst geared players.
So where does that leave the DC atm for regular matched pug pvping? Not in a great place honestly. The self healing nerf and the horibble feats are just too much all together.
Go in with a solid group, partial premade of players who understand basic concepts like what DG and HG does and you will see a huge difference.
IF you play a GWF or GF alt or something and have one solid DC behind you, you will see what they can do for you, but at the same time you have to pull out every prone to keep them up, just dont leave them flat while you go kill one lone HR past the pillars.
I still think the DC needs some rework to make it more viable and even though pve its ok, maybe some newer updated skills.
My # request right now is make ashield, hg and Dg party buffs, not spot buffs, so anyone within 40/60 and 120 game feet will get the effects without standing in circles.. now that WILL truly make the DC super viable, as we are no longer punching bags by having to stay close to the melee'ers and that WILL also make us more viable as buffers to range support.
Viola, who wouldnt want a DC in all circumanstances again.
Demos recommended using BTS as one of the encounters and in 1v1s it is pretty effective for interrupting, especially vs cws.
DCs can still stalemate fairly well b/c most gwfs suck at using their encounters properly. Just dodge the cc skills and exalt during burst damage. However, troll comps make it hard to keep dodging with multiple gwfs.
We have always been able to stalemate vs TRs. In order to do this you can use astral shield, exaltation, and healing word. Dodge on the third part of the flurry (1-2-flurry). You can do this by listening. The flurry is the majority of a tr's dmg. When you run out of stamina use exaltation.
I'll probably write an updated guide later on pvp, but for now, dc's are in the role of roaming made harder by the new mounting times. Avoid stalemating pts in general versus multiple classes unless it is absolutely necessary (ie permastealth tr 1v3ing your team)
Actually i was pretty sad about those indirect nerf on DC. I have to abandon my main to create a troll tank who can face tank the enemies instead of my old mobile healing style. I really like the time when M2 came in and we didn't have tenacity. I can burst heal anyone with tons of temp hp, saving any teammates just by floating from 1 to 3. But now, 8 sec mount disable after combat kill my play style.
There is no longer any chance to kite nor fighting from one place to another. My old (SB,Ex,HW) skill set lost to the pure healing (HW,Ex,AS) and the pure tanking (SB,HW,AS) old meta. Cryptic keeps on killing the class and we must try to adapt any changes done, they kill my Elf as a mobile healer, so i turn him into a DPS DO. I hope when i dump the rest AD i have into my new cleric, they wont say cleric is too tanky and remove our tankiness, which means my cleric is destroyed again.
I am still learning how to tank instead of my kite and float playstyle, feeling weird to stay at mid when there is no other allies nor enemies beside. I prefer running here and there capping and heal my allies but they simply kill our mobility in pvp. Sad, very sad.
1 vs 1 DC/GWF forget it, there is nothing much to do. I'm thinking know on helps my team on node 2 with:
Encounters - astral shield / healing word / bastion of health
Class Feature - Divine fortune / Healer's Lore
Daily - Annoited Armor / Hallowed Ground
With some good recovery/deflection/life steel you can do your job correctly.
1 GF guards our node, the others node 2, if node 2 is cleanned 1 go to enemy's node... with good healing/buffs its a easy way to win.
And don't worry about frags, i think my kpd is 0,4,~0,5 lol
Maybe this will help you more:
Dont use bastion of health, casting time is too long to be viable in pvp and healing output isnt worth it. Use chain or sunburst or forgemaster flame or exaltation.
Replace healer lore for a defensive passive like annointed armor or foresight.
Replace lifesteal for regen.
Papa Smurf / Uncle Ben --DC
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
I've changed my bastion to exaltation because my paragon prestigious exaltation is maximized. Annointed armor was a good choice because it gives to me more AC. Now let's finish my equips but i'm already feeling the difference with a good tenacity set (grim set of faithful) and i'm looking for some one better.
Thanks for the advices.
0
baalhashmalMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
edited June 2014
While most may disagree with my methodology for PVP, I've opted to become a de-buff machine. I've ignored the tanking shenanigans and go balls out. PVP has actually been fun on a DC the past two days.
Here are my suggestions:
Stick with the High Prophet's set.
At-wills: Brand of the Sun, Sacred Flame.
Encounters: Break the Spirit, Chains of Blazing Light, Divine Glow.
Dailies: Flame Strike, Divine Armor.
Passives: Foresight, Terrifying Insight.
If an enemy player decides to go after you, which can be often as a DC, get off the node but stay within reasonable means to buff your team mates and de-buff enemy players with Divine Glow. Root them with Chains of Blazing Light to make the previous task easier, or make usage of your lock-on feature (Left-CTRL key by default). Use Break the Spirit on the individual who is chasing you and bloodthirsty for some of your cleric booty. Otherwise, use your judgment on which enemy player to cast it on. Remember, a divinity Break the Spirit stuns and works very well on Control Wizards.
Smack some of that Brand of the Sun on as many of the enemy team as you can, it'll help stack a High Prophet set de-buff, along with regenerating some of your divinity. Do not stand still for very long; keep moving (obviously if you're stunned/rooted that won't work).
Do not forget about Punishing Light; people need heals? Use Soothing Light, preferably during some down time (enemies are dead or not near).
Cleric:Marquis Elmdore - Current Main Wizard: Iamblichus Fighter: Anna the Titan Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
@ Baal, if you want to know whether it works in every situations, you can ask some of your friends to form a premade or go into ToB and try to ask some kind hardcore pvpers to bring you into high end pvp with their extremely high ELO. I tried dps/debuff pvp cleric as well, it do works and i managed to keep a beautiful K/D ratio, but my team often lose because we lost 1 tank and 1 healer.
Comments
Currently IV/Destro GWF has advantage over IV/Sent. But pre-mod 3 IV/Sent would beat current IV/Destro. Destro is generally better in group fights, and since many DCs just sit at 2 all match, I can see why many think they got buffed. IV/Destro lose a lot of ability to fight nodes 1 and 3 against TR and HR, but those DCs that just sit at 2 all day wouldn't know about that.
You cannot run backwards, you can only kite while using Punishing Light.
Since the latest GWF buff, they seem immune to Forgemaster's Flame when mounted as even when I hit them on their horse as they approach and use a Divine Sunburst to blow them away, they knock me prone from 20 feet away, then fly off their horse and root and stun me. When on the ground, they can hit me from 20 feet away and dodging rarely works as they can hit me when I am WAY out of melee weapon range.
Clerics in Neverwinter are hopelessly broken as most of their powers are not healing powers at all, our damaging, buffing and debuffing powers are too weak and at least half the Feats are rubbish or do not work. And all the powers seem to involve Light and Sunlight, which is fine for a Priestess of Amaunator, but for a Drow Priestess of Lolth makes no sense at all as a Drow character should be blinding herself all the time.
The class is Cleric, not "Healer". Check out the 2nd edition AD&D "Complete Priests Handbook", "Faiths and Avatars" and similar books in the 3E and 4E series for different types of Priesthoods. Different builds should be possible in Neverwinter as well.
My AC Tiefling is level 60 and Feated for Healing and survives much longer with damaging Powers slotted because PUG Teams usually run off and leave her in the lurch, step outside an Invigorated Healing blue Astral Shield, run off badly injured during the casting of Sunburst and Bastion of Health and do not seem to understand what a Moon Touched Hallowed Ground does - yes! They even manage to step outside THAT area as well. Then I get "What? No Heals, DC?" from a Rogue I have never seen who just died on the enemy Home Node.
Early on, she often tops the scoreboard as well, but then gets gang-banged by the other team as soon as she does something useful.
My latest character is a level 43 DO Dwarf, Feated for Battle, and he is much more successful. Has 4 Triple Kills and 9 Double Kills and has topped the scoreboard on the winning team several times and got the free gear prize - although usually something for a CW or TR
But he is almost always top of everything in Skirmishes and Dungeon Delves, and certainly top Paingiver if not Executioner. I have been trying to do the Wolf Den delve all week, and always get in right at the end as someone has dropped out due to multiple wipes. Last time, there were only THREE of us, and we beat the swine. So, if two were disconnected when I joined and someone else had left the party due to wiping multiple time, my DO joins and we win with only three players, I think he must have turned the tide.
I have a level 60 Dwarven AC, a level 60 Tiefling AC and a level 31 Halfling AC, and they have never come close, although the Battle-Feated Dwarf survives longer then the Healing-Feated Tiefling.
"I am the Wrath of Clanggeddin!
Heal yer feckin' selves!"
~
I see that as well, even the stepping outside of the freaking hallowed ground, how they manage that when I lay it in the center then chase poeple around pillars ect.
Up to Mod 3, I found a AC traited tanky DC a solid build, now its not , hrs and gwfs can blow you up any day of the week, not to mention the TR/CW ganking and ccing/dazing you to death.
DCs can and do make a huge difference, in a solid built team, but alot of pug matches do not have that, my now AC traited DC at 15k cant kill anyone really, except the very worst geared players.
So where does that leave the DC atm for regular matched pug pvping? Not in a great place honestly. The self healing nerf and the horibble feats are just too much all together.
Go in with a solid group, partial premade of players who understand basic concepts like what DG and HG does and you will see a huge difference.
IF you play a GWF or GF alt or something and have one solid DC behind you, you will see what they can do for you, but at the same time you have to pull out every prone to keep them up, just dont leave them flat while you go kill one lone HR past the pillars.
I still think the DC needs some rework to make it more viable and even though pve its ok, maybe some newer updated skills.
My # request right now is make ashield, hg and Dg party buffs, not spot buffs, so anyone within 40/60 and 120 game feet will get the effects without standing in circles.. now that WILL truly make the DC super viable, as we are no longer punching bags by having to stay close to the melee'ers and that WILL also make us more viable as buffers to range support.
Viola, who wouldnt want a DC in all circumanstances again.
DCs can still stalemate fairly well b/c most gwfs suck at using their encounters properly. Just dodge the cc skills and exalt during burst damage. However, troll comps make it hard to keep dodging with multiple gwfs.
We have always been able to stalemate vs TRs. In order to do this you can use astral shield, exaltation, and healing word. Dodge on the third part of the flurry (1-2-flurry). You can do this by listening. The flurry is the majority of a tr's dmg. When you run out of stamina use exaltation.
I'll probably write an updated guide later on pvp, but for now, dc's are in the role of roaming made harder by the new mounting times. Avoid stalemating pts in general versus multiple classes unless it is absolutely necessary (ie permastealth tr 1v3ing your team)
There is no longer any chance to kite nor fighting from one place to another. My old (SB,Ex,HW) skill set lost to the pure healing (HW,Ex,AS) and the pure tanking (SB,HW,AS) old meta. Cryptic keeps on killing the class and we must try to adapt any changes done, they kill my Elf as a mobile healer, so i turn him into a DPS DO. I hope when i dump the rest AD i have into my new cleric, they wont say cleric is too tanky and remove our tankiness, which means my cleric is destroyed again.
I am still learning how to tank instead of my kite and float playstyle, feeling weird to stay at mid when there is no other allies nor enemies beside. I prefer running here and there capping and heal my allies but they simply kill our mobility in pvp. Sad, very sad.
Encounters - astral shield / healing word / bastion of health
Class Feature - Divine fortune / Healer's Lore
Daily - Annoited Armor / Hallowed Ground
With some good recovery/deflection/life steel you can do your job correctly.
1 GF guards our node, the others node 2, if node 2 is cleanned 1 go to enemy's node... with good healing/buffs its a easy way to win.
And don't worry about frags, i think my kpd is 0,4,~0,5 lol
Maybe this will help you more:
Dont use bastion of health, casting time is too long to be viable in pvp and healing output isnt worth it. Use chain or sunburst or forgemaster flame or exaltation.
Replace healer lore for a defensive passive like annointed armor or foresight.
Replace lifesteal for regen.
Santa Claus --GF
Gargamel --CW
Thanks for the advices.
Here are my suggestions:
Stick with the High Prophet's set.
At-wills: Brand of the Sun, Sacred Flame.
Encounters: Break the Spirit, Chains of Blazing Light, Divine Glow.
Dailies: Flame Strike, Divine Armor.
Passives: Foresight, Terrifying Insight.
If an enemy player decides to go after you, which can be often as a DC, get off the node but stay within reasonable means to buff your team mates and de-buff enemy players with Divine Glow. Root them with Chains of Blazing Light to make the previous task easier, or make usage of your lock-on feature (Left-CTRL key by default). Use Break the Spirit on the individual who is chasing you and bloodthirsty for some of your cleric booty. Otherwise, use your judgment on which enemy player to cast it on. Remember, a divinity Break the Spirit stuns and works very well on Control Wizards.
Smack some of that Brand of the Sun on as many of the enemy team as you can, it'll help stack a High Prophet set de-buff, along with regenerating some of your divinity. Do not stand still for very long; keep moving (obviously if you're stunned/rooted that won't work).
Do not forget about Punishing Light; people need heals? Use Soothing Light, preferably during some down time (enemies are dead or not near).
Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main
Wizard: Iamblichus
Fighter: Anna the Titan
Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18.
Alliance: Imperium