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Master of Flame Build
hareclion
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
I made a human cw for try the MoF build, and is like this
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=l9r:27fdww:1d1e7n,13l30n0:100000:1u0u00:1zu501&h=0&p=mof
Is this good?
Thx in advance
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=l9r:27fdww:1d1e7n,13l30n0:100000:1u0u00:1zu501&h=0&p=mof
Is this good?
Thx in advance
Post edited by hareclion on
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min-maxer numbers hurt my brain.
http://nwcalc.com/cw?b=mum:26schf:1dtnur,13h20if:100000:1uuu51:1uu000&h=0&p=mof
Its designed to be used with Fanning the Flame (Mastery), Conduit of Ice, Steal Time, and Shards of Endless Avalanche, I also swap sometimes for Chill Strike.
Utilizes Snap Freeze, Nightmare Wizardy, Transcended Master, Drifting Embers, and Assailing Force.
Its a Debuff build that stacks DoTs, and utilizes both Steal Time and Shards hit to push Drifting Embers onto all nearby targets. So you get a debuffed mob that's smouldering, and then roll a boosted (TM) Shards into the pile to either finish them or spread more Smoulder.
There are 3 more points from the IWD levels in there that are all in Furious Immolation.
EDIT: With this build you hit with CoI>FtF>Scortching Burst> Steal Time (to debuff)> Shards.
Without knowing exactly what you intend there are a few things here:
A) Drifting Embers is generally bad unless you intend to only use FtF off of tab. Since that will likely mean that FtF does far, far less damage you will find it's either tab or nothing except on boss fights. During Boss fights you won't want DE because of fights like Spellplague or Frozen Heart where you don't really want to hit the add's. I found DE to mostly be terrible personally, but it's a playstyle thing.
C) Not taking Masterful Arcane Theft defeats one of the few purposes behind going Renegade in the first place.
I would put those points from CP into Masterful Arcane Theft and those points you have in Drifting Embers into Malevolent Surge. That's just me though.
My Build:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?632871-The-RNG-PvE-Wizard-Renegade-Master-of-Flame
OK, i didn't know of your guide, and i like it, much better than mine, so i think i will use your, ok? Thx for all tips!
try and check out this one
3.000 cirt would be ok.. put your armor pen at 2000.. all rest at power...
Swath of destr.. and critical conflag.. allways sloted
coi on tab..(adds chill) .. shard on q .. icy terrain (more chill) on e .. falnning the flames on r ..
the idea is start with a coi.. put icy terrain.. throw sing... prepare shard.. flanning.. and 3 chilling cloud if posible.. wehn down on sing push shard...
awesome.. trust me...
by the way lightning enchantment slooted
3k crit rating is a lot of wasted points on any character and fanning the flames on an encounter slot turns it into a single-target damage attack. Literally the only thing Drifting Embers does is add a chance that Smolder will be added to one nearby target each time it takes damage over the four seconds or so that Fanning The Flame is active.
That is a terrible, terrible use of 5 feat points in any situation you care to mention. Even more so considering you're already using Critical Conflagration. There is zero reason to use DE on any build except a pure single-target DPS build. (I.E. no one will ever need it.)
Not that a Thaum build isn't perfectly viable for a MoF, it's just that taking DE is a huge waste. I also don't really see the point in using both CoI and Icy Terrain as encounters. Is it that important for you to stack Chill that quickly?
If you're interested in a Thaum oriented MoF build Chemboy's is probably the best up at the moment.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?582001-Chem-s-Dracoslaying-MoF-build
I think you have underestimated what Drifting Embers does, it does, and I can confirm....
...affect multiple targets on a hit. It will spread it on any AoE attack onto other targets nearby. You can extend any Smoulder nearly indefinitely doing this.
Currently I use this method to Solo 3-5 man HEs in Icewind Dale. It is highly effective.
Works very well on the 3 pull of Corrupted Bears and the 8 man pull on the Barbarian Caravan Raid. (Have to be careful on the Caravan 3-5 man though, once you get the Bear riders on you it can throw everything off, if you can isolate them you can win, but you cannot with the barbarians on you AND the Bear riders)
I don't either, even though DE does work on multi-target hits very well and I can confirm.
BUT in his build... unless you're using the passives that increase the damage per stack of Chill, which admittedly is a valid Idea, but the specific person you're talking about, apparently does not plan to use this passive (Chilling Presence), which makes it... kind of pointless.
You COULD, use this passive, stack a lot of chill very quickly, then Smoulder them for a Rimfire effect and increase its damage a great deal.
BUT you'd have to go without one of the two passives he plans to use and slot Chilling Presence. So a choice would need to be made.
It will not work the way he believes it will minus using that passive and other feating (which I noticed he did do)
Chemboys build is very interesting, its a takeoff on Grimah's debuffing build,
And being that I use a version of the Debuff variant as well I can attest to its effectiveness.
It's still not needed though. You shouldn't need to invest points into DE in order to spread or maintain smolder in any situation unless you are, for some reason, concentrating entirely on a single-target rotation or not using Critical Conflaguration as one of your class skills.
These are both things that no CW is going to do outside of very specific boss fights, although even then it's likely you're going to want CC as a class skill either way. (Not to mention that using CoI or Icy Terrain will also maintain your smolder, so again it isn't needed.)
There are more useful feat choices you could take outside of Drifting Embers is what it boils down to. It doesn't add to damage or create a useful effect that isn't available by default.
As just one incredibly powerful argument against DE one single critical Icy Terrain will add and maintain smolder on an infinte number of add's. Infinite. So DE is simply a bad choice.
Not to mention that you can pretty much add smolder to everything with a steal time.
Steal Time is capped at five targets, ergo it will never add smolder to more than five targets per cast. So that is simply untrue. It also assumes you're using Critical Conflaguration as a class skill (which you probably are.)
I'm also not convinced that what Silver is expirencing is multiple chances for smolder to spread to one target. I have never seen DE spread smolder to more than one target at a time per hit; but in his defense I did not exhuastively test that. I merely hit training dummies in Dread Ring, one MM at a time, and observed that only one dummy would light on fire per hit. It could have just been bad luck on the proc's, but it's very difficult to tell with powers like DE and I felt it wasn't worth testing since FtF was best on Tab regardless.
Not really no,
Actually you will need DE for that.
Unless you crit on it.... and have the correct passive feated. Steal Time will not spread it normally, for that you would need DE.
Trying to add smolder to a target 1 by one with a crappy feat sounds much more effective.....
And I almost always get a smolder on all targets hit by steal time.
Well unlike with Spellstorm you can't guarantee yourself a crit... so being able to both crit and spread it, and also AoE (with DE) and spread it doubles your chances of spreading the smoulder.
This is what I discovered when soloing 3-5 man encounters in Icewind Dale.
I could start with CoI and debuff them, then hit them with FtF in rapid succession, then I'd have to teleport and start on a Steal Time, then hit them with Shards and spread it again. Then teleport, they catch up and you toss a quick Oppressive Force, allows a full on Scortching Burst, CoI, and FtF cast again.
Then another Teleport, Steal Time to potentially spread more Smolder, Then Shard hit again for more Smolder spread.
So Drifting Embers has literally allowed me to keep Smolder going indefinitely while soloing entire groups in the 3-5 man HEs.
How exactly do you think DE works; and how do you think you can tell if it's DE spreading Smolder or Critical Conflaguration causing it?
DESCRIPTION OF DE:
Targets affected by Fanning the Flame have a 25% chance when damaged by other attacks to spread Smolder to a nearby target.
DESCRIPTION OF CC:
You gain increased Critical Severity, and whenever you critically hit with an Arcane or Cold-based attack you add Smolder to your target.
Just for informations sake, only the primary target of Fanning The Flame actually has this specific damage applied. All the other parts of FtF are sub-type attacks that do not have a chance to proc Smolder through DE. Just that one guy; and the feat itself specifies one spread per attack. On top of that, Fanning the Flame is only active for about four to five seconds and has around a ten second CD.
So in all probably you are proc'ing 5 Smolder with Steal Time from CC, and if the primary target of FtF (or in your case only target) is hit by Steal Time it's probably making multiple checks over it's cast to spread it to more targets.
Useful certainly, but hardly worth 5 feat points IMO even if all of the above is true. I'm not even convinced that using FtF as a regular encounter is worthwhile except in rare instances where there are lots of add's combined with Combustive Action and Oppressive Force. (Which, by the way, again add's smolder to infinite targets without the use of DE.)
Nothing should ever live long enough for DE to become an efficent way of spreading smolder, making it a waste of 5 feat points.
Yes, but did you ever look at your log when doing it?
The Smolder from Fanning is different from normal Smolder from Scortching Burst.... and it lists it as if it were Fanning the Flame not Smolder. That's why you can actually Stack both Fanning the Flame and Smolder on a target and they both stack as seperate effects.
I know the description says "smolder" but its not, that's why its so confusing.
Yes, I have looked at my log. Fanning the Flame is a DoT that lasts for five ticks but is not perma. After it runs out it's gone, and all that is left is smolder. That's why I say it has a duration. >.<
Why is it so hard for you to understand that maximizing the amount of targets you set on fire through your class feats is a waste of time when you can apply it to infinte targets with just powers?
This is literally the reason why everyone says Critical Conflaguration is mandatory.
Well for the record I am not seeing what you are.
Now wait five seconds because it has a cooldown.
It doesn't keep going forever, Fanning the Flame is a specific damage type that ticks five times. When it is done ticking, it is gone until you reapply it off it's cooldown.
Compared to Fanning the Flame on Tab vs. 3 targets: (One Cast)
(Smolder and Necrotic damage ticks excised on both)
Of course it is, I use it regularly....
But... you cannot guarantee yourself a Crit because you don't have Eye of the Storm like a Spellstorm.
I am sorry you think DE is a waste of time, but it does exactly what I told you it does.
I would not be able to solo entire groups of 3-5 man HEs if I could not keep them burning like that.
With a 30% crit rate you should not ever have problems keeping Smolder on any number of targets. Ever. I think virtually anyone would agree with me. Either way I'm done arguing the point when I literally just posted a combat log telling you that you are wrong here.
Ice Spells do not 'carry' Fanning the Flame only Smolder; which it converts to Rimefire.
EDIT:
Or are you saying that with Drifting Embers, Fanning The Flame itself transfers to nearby targets and exceeds it's five ticks? I never observed such an effect when testing it, it always just made smolder appear on a nearby dummy.
You know... I know you meant to prove something different with that than what you intended,
.....but instead I have to thank you. Your log helped me understand WHY Drifting Embers is so effective... And why (you remember I said early on I could confirm that our AoEs were spreading Multiple Smolders)
Now I understand why MY BUILD is so effective with DE and spreading it to multiple targets....
Where you made your mistake was in assuming that our AoEs only hit ONCE.
If you look back to Grimah's guide, Steal time actually hits 5 targets 3 different times, AND Shards is actually hitting upwards of twice depending on a Point Blank hit.
The reason our AoEs spread a ton of Smolder with DE.... is because even though its only two separate AoEs, they're actually hitting the targets upwards of 5 times each. So you're spreading a TON of smolder with with each AoE hit when using .
And looking back on the log you just presented... with a hit on 3-5 targets with Tabbed (Mastery) Fanning the Flame... and a Steal Time + Shards combo, you're basically hitting upwards of 5 targets 5 different times for upwards of 25 hits with the chance to spread that much Smolder.
So everytime you do the Steal Time/Shards combo on a group of Mobs affected by Fanning the Flames you are literally AoE Smoldering them all over again and refreshing your stacks of smolder. Which also adds even more Gathering Flame effects...
I know you meant to prove the opposite with your logs, but I do have to thank you.
In reality you helped me understand WHY DE is so effective.
What I think amuses me most is that everything I just told you appears to be new information to you and yet you're still trying to refute what I know to be how it works from actually testing it in a controlled situation.
You are a piece of work sir. (Oh, and the preview server agree's with me.)
Well you go ahead and keep talking, I'll go ahead and keep soloing 3-5 man HE groups.
Plus, as other people point out, having FtF on tab, CA or CC is a much more efficient way to spread Smolder. Heck, a quick tap of Scorching Burst will do it, and Chilling Cloud will refresh your Rimfire stacks.
I've actually be running around lately using CC as my main at-will, Scorching Burst for quick smolder tabs, Evocation and CC and haven't had any problem keeping smolder up on large packs.
Well obviously you can do it either way,
And I do it differently than you, I use CC and Swath of Destruction instead, giving me a good what 25% more Smoulder Damage and the added 5% debuff from that.
So while you are using CA, I'm using Swath of Destruction, which heightens my Smolder damage, Adds another Debuff in addition to CoI, and increases the damage on my Steal Time and Shards, and STILL keep smolder running indefinitely with DE.
I'm basically getting 20% debuff from CoI + Swath, then another 25% damage on my Smoulder, and then using DE to maintain the Smolder 100% of the time, along with the alternate methods.
So I'm not seeing your point here.
1.) I look at your build and notice 5 Passives all maxed and i am wondering why?
2.) By the looks of it this would also have very little applications to PvP in say IWD correct?
3.) No points into Learned Spellcaster, is this because you are supporting the team more?
4.) Is snap Freeze really that useful when you are kind spreading frost a lot for Rimefire?
5.) Your reasoning behind Thaum instead of Renegade please ^_^
Reason for Question 2 is i notice you have not maxed entangling and placed a point into Orb of Imposition... you also have not maxed Repel or Icy Rays. Just so many passives and i don't know how practical that is
Sorry for so many questions i just want to find an MoF build that is diverse and can hold its own in PvE and PvP (no too important but do need it in IWD).
It's pointless to argue with him. He doesn't know anything about the finer points of MoF CW; he's just trolling and that's become quite clear.
You can lay down one Icy Terrain and set fire to infinite targets. Yes, infinite, which is more than one if you'll notice. On top of that the 25% chance to spread smolder to one target during FtF's four second window is a worse chance than my actual crit rate. 0.o
DE add's a 12.5% chance to spread smolder to one other target if you do the math. Fanning the Flame has about a 50% 'up' rate, and during that 50% DE gives a 25% chance to spread smolder to one target per hit. This is easily confirmed through testing on training dummies. One target.
I would not take any build advice from Silverquick. He clearly does not know what his own powers or feats do. This is easily confirmed by looking at his suggested build. No Icy Terrain in his build? No Malevolent Surge? No Elemental Empowerment? Drifting Embers? No Frozen Transfer? I mean, his build is one of the worst Thaum builds I think I've ever seen. (Also, Prestidigitation?!? Really?)
It is a miracle he can solo HE with that setup. Then again, I think my signature explains it.
Yeah... totally
....that would be why I just went out in the field today, ran out and still got 180 black Ice max from all the Epic HEs... yeah that would be the 3-5 man ones....
....Not the Epic 6-10 mans those I can pretty much guarantee a 150 black ice from. I must just be doing horrible damage... to keep getting top damager like that.
....You're actually with a straight face sitting there saying... "you're doing it wrong".
Why in the hell would I ever want to listen to someone like you.
Primarily because I'm right. If you weren't so busy grandstanding and stroking your epeen you might be able to see that. Also, if you go ahead and look at any other CW builds posted by anyone with half a brain you would see that you skipped almost every useful talent and replaced it with garbage. This, combined with your flagrant disregard for the truth, leads me to believe that you're trolling new players. Not cool friend.
Yes... because I've been listening to you and the rest of the MoF crew like whine and cheese for months about how you can't keep up with Spellstorms.
SO I run out build one and ignore everything you've ever said. And suddenly POOF, I'm doing incredible damage and wiping up in Icewind Dale like its nothiing, wondering why in the hell you guys feel MoF is underpowered.
Ok so I did find the Rimefire bug and made sure to get it corrected during the Preview IWD lead up, but I never bothered with Rimfire.
.....but my build basically ignored everything the MoF crew has ever said and never even used that. AND ignored everything You've ever said and I'm doing incredible with an MoF and haven't looked back running top damager in these HEs. And *shock* *boggle* Turns out I was right.
Didn't it ever occur to you that YOU were doing it wrong all this time?
I don't want to hear it.