It was no where near 10 to 100% hps restored, either.
Also, no one ever seemed to attack that DC, except when she was solo on a node, the GWF obviously had potions and regeneration, the DC was totally specced for Healing and probably had a lot of stuff boosting Power and Recovery. She was constantly jumping and dodging and her Stamina gain was astonishingly fast as well.
I would REALLY like to see that girl's DC build, complete with Gear, Enchants and Boons, as I think she probably has ALL the absolute BiS stuff possible.
At least it will give me something to aim for.
But it also reduces a Cleric to nothing but a walking First Aid Kit, and that was never their sole role in AD&D.
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Yes she restored basically 90% HP for the GWF, while they were under attack lol. Been there so many times. You almost kill a person, DC comes, and suddenly you cannot outDPS their heals, and they get slowly back to 100% HP.
Yes she is BiS and she is also extremely tanky.
So? All people in that video are BiS or near BiS.
My point remains:
DCs are nowhere near underpowered and unable to heal. DCs can save their teammates, heal like crazy and a true asset to their parties.
Keep in mind. All I'm trying to point out here is that the complaints are fake. DCs can heal and tank. Now GWFs got buffed to somewhat stupid levels, but that's another issue, and you don't solve DC dying to GWF by buffing the DC too.
My point is there are DCs in these forums constantly complaining they cannot heal. Yet the reality is that they have a relatively easy time keeping alive toons built for PvP, yes, that included Tenacity, lots of HP and Regen. Such DCs always ask for buffs.
My only question is, how much more healing is it OK for a DC to have where the context is already extremely survivable toons. I'd agree buffing DC self-healing a bit, to the point they can stall TRs and GWFs. I think it's fair a tanky healing class should be able to stall melee DPS.
What I don't agree is increasing overall healing. DCs heal like mad already IMO. If you have issues keeping your teammates alive, I think you should suspect you're dealing with squishy toons unable to dodge/without proper PvP spec/focused by 2-3 BiS geared monster DPS, or you are not having the gear or the skill for this job.
The current situation seems fair to me. If you are unable to intercept the DC, or kill your opponent in time, or kill the DC before they arrive, you will face the punishment of having to start again.
I also think DC needs to have more paragons specifically designed for different roles. I think clerics in D&D are very versatile, including war clerics and so on. So why not here? Maybe not everybody wants to play supporter/healer/buffer/debuffer.
in the vid shown, no one attack the DC, I have no idea why, in normal PVP party first thing is killing the DC
it took the DC 1 min + astral seal + healing word + exaltation + temp hit points from sacred flame to recover the GWF to half is life...
keep in mind that DC heal other 70% more, so he cannot heal himself
I play DC and I agree. in party it can make a big difference (that's why you have to kill the DC first)
most of the complains coming from the new icewind PVP area, 1:1 DC have no chance to survive, there is no area to protect until help will come and no one to heal...
at the end 15K DC need to run away from 10k HR / TR / CW / GWF / GF
also those new requirements of double kill and triple kills are impossible for DC
I cant remember when was the last time I did double kill
and I do remember I never ever did a triple kill (6 months at least)
double/triple kills are possible for a dps cleric, but that's mostly kill-stealing. i did get my 1st triple kill yesterday and i only noticed because of the announcement xD.
i rarely, if ever, take out 100% of someone's hp b4 i die
I wouldn't mind at all if they made a DC path that focused on the warding/protecting aspects of a Divine.
Maybe one or two of the classic cleric spells such as:
Hold Person - single target CC Command - single target CC Silence 15' r. - create a zone where certain spells just don't function for a period. Spell Immunity - Target ignores next spell (with spell check vs caster) Dispel Magic - Removes all current enemy spell effects in area.
or some of the Symbol spells to lay down favorable terrain that only triggers when enemy enters/near. Symbol of Weakness, Pain, Stunning etc, etc.
If balanced and implemented well some of that stuff could make a DC as valuable for combat tactics as for healing/tanking/buffing.
in the vid shown, no one attack the DC, I have no idea why, in normal PVP party first thing is killing the DC
also those new requirements of double kill and triple kills are impossible for DC
I cant remember when was the last time I did double kill
and I do remember I never ever did a triple kill (6 months at least)
Oh the DC gets attacked. Not all DCs are equal. Sometimes they have dumb builds and you're able to outdps their healing. So when your target is 10% HP, and DC comes at 100% HP, you still try to kill the GWF... until you realize his HP is going up not down. Then you switch to DC.
But, if you think killing DC is easy, think again. Even when I play my CW, it takes me a while (usually exactly long enough for DC friend to come and wipe me). And I need full daily+meatball burst crits to do it. Again, I'm talking about DCs at the same level of gear as me, maxed.
I completely agree with the requirements. They are dumb and should not be there, completely unfair to DCs.
plavia is correct, no one is attacking the dc in that video... in a common premade the dc is focused down by the gwf/cw so they are completely cc'd however if dc's are given free reign we can heal and turn a fight in our favor
DC's currently do not have as many healing problems as they did last mod due to righteousness rework, however, with the current meta of gwfs we're always cc'd so much we cannot cast anything... nothing like casting your artifact 3 times b/c you have to dodge and hten you get roared >.<
I want the DCs to STOP COMPLAINING that they cannot heal. That is all. And stop asking for even more buffs to healing.
DCs can heal, but ONLY if they are using full Miracle Healer set. Our actual encounters are pretty horrible with healing depression. That DC saved the GWF because spamming those encounters/healing word charges procced the 4-piece bonus multiple times. This set bonus accounts for an entire 30% of our heals, and has the benefit of not being a small, slow HoT, which is what our other main heal is (healing word). Basically the only reason DCs can heal for noticeable amounts is by exploiting a set piece bonus that isn't affected by healing depression.
And to use full MH, we sacrifice a fair bit, most notably tenacity. With black ice sets, we may be sacrificing far more. And it will become a question of: do we want to die like sh*t but be able to heal with MH? Or do we want some extra survivability but crush our healing power?
I don't want to go back to the days where I simply stalemate another player on a point (hence the appeal of MH set), but I also don't want to completely melt when focused by classes with CC or a class paired with another that has CC (the appeal of other sets). This isn't a good balance for DCs.
I don't want to go back to the days where I simply stalemate another player on a point (hence the appeal of MH set), but I also don't want to completely melt when focused by classes with CC or a class paired with another that has CC (the appeal of other sets). This isn't a good balance for DCs.
You cannot trust the developers to fix things for you, as in adjust your healing to be better overall while making the MH set respect HD. It might end up in yet another GWF "nerf" fiasco type of situation, where instead of DC getting proper healing from abilities as they should, they will end up being truly broken. I know the current situation is not ideal, but at least you can heal within the meta and would also be tanky enough, if not for the GWF "nerf"... ahem.
But that is a GWF issue, I think, and all classes suffer because of it. Maybe HR not so much, can't tell for sure.
I think DCs know how things are in this game with "fixes", because I don't remember seeing DC-made topics about "Our MH set is bugged, please fix that and buff healing afterwards". Because it's risky and we all know why.
You cannot trust the developers to fix things for you, as in adjust your healing to be better overall while making the MH set respect HD. It might end up in yet another GWF "nerf" fiasco type of situation, where instead of DC getting proper healing from abilities as they should, they will end up being truly broken. I know the current situation is not ideal, but at least you can heal within the meta and would also be tanky enough, if not for the GWF "nerf"... ahem.
But that is a GWF issue, I think, and all classes suffer because of it. Maybe HR not so much, can't tell for sure.
I think DCs know how things are in this game with "fixes", because I don't remember seeing DC-made topics about "Our MH set is bugged, please fix that and buff healing afterwards". Because it's risky and we all know why.
Well if the GWF is fixed, that will definitely be a huge help for DCs. DCs aren't obsolete, but if we're going to be ranking classes in terms of viability, DC would only rank above GF to bring in a PvP party.
I swear I've played against some really effective DCs lately. Last game had one going to and from nodes exactly when needed and was very hard to kill. Made the game basically impossible.
He's not the only one I've played against a lot of good ones lately. It's getting to the point where during the initial rush, if I hear that sound they make when they break out their symbol, I think "Oh God, this is going to be an annoying fight."
DC's can't solo hold nodes anymore for very long but they can still be effective. I agree with the guy above me, if they tone down GWFs I think DCs would do a lot better.
also those new requirements of double kill and triple kills are impossible for DC
My latest DC is a DO (the other three are AC), he is level 43 and has several Triple Kills and twice the number of Double Kills in PvP matches. I have not started IWD yet, so I would not know.
But it is a ridiculous setup in Neverwinter.
All other editions of AD&D had Class-Specific XP awards, so these should also be worked into the PvP Campaign and other things.
All characters get awards for killing, so it's not surprising GWFs and TR top the boards.
Rogues should get XP for disarming traps, so to make that worthwhile traps should do a LOT more damage in dungeons, so parties will stop charging off like it's a race and play more like a team. They should also get awards for the number of Backstab Sneak Attacks they do and how many Stuns and Critical Strikes they do.
Clerics should get XP for healing, and double for reviving someone in combat, and also for healing someone by 50% or more of their Max hp.
Guardians should get an award per 1000 damage blocked or something like that, and double for killing enemies, as they do not kill as easily as GWF, TR or HR, and an award for drawing all the threat a number of times within 60 seconds or something.
That's just off the top of my head with no thought - I'll check my old 1E, 2E and 3.5 E DMGs, but with a little thought there IS a way to make this game fair and balanced for all Classes.
Comments
Yes she restored basically 90% HP for the GWF, while they were under attack lol. Been there so many times. You almost kill a person, DC comes, and suddenly you cannot outDPS their heals, and they get slowly back to 100% HP.
Yes she is BiS and she is also extremely tanky.
So? All people in that video are BiS or near BiS.
My point remains:
DCs are nowhere near underpowered and unable to heal. DCs can save their teammates, heal like crazy and a true asset to their parties.
Keep in mind. All I'm trying to point out here is that the complaints are fake. DCs can heal and tank. Now GWFs got buffed to somewhat stupid levels, but that's another issue, and you don't solve DC dying to GWF by buffing the DC too.
So you want DCs to be unable to outheal DPS of a single enemy player by direct healing?
hey could you link your dc build for me please? i saw u in action and u have some good staying ability
in the vid shown, no one attack the DC, I have no idea why, in normal PVP party first thing is killing the DC
it took the DC 1 min + astral seal + healing word + exaltation + temp hit points from sacred flame to recover the GWF to half is life...
keep in mind that DC heal other 70% more, so he cannot heal himself
I play DC and I agree. in party it can make a big difference (that's why you have to kill the DC first)
most of the complains coming from the new icewind PVP area, 1:1 DC have no chance to survive, there is no area to protect until help will come and no one to heal...
at the end 15K DC need to run away from 10k HR / TR / CW / GWF / GF
also those new requirements of double kill and triple kills are impossible for DC
I cant remember when was the last time I did double kill
and I do remember I never ever did a triple kill (6 months at least)
i rarely, if ever, take out 100% of someone's hp b4 i die
Maybe one or two of the classic cleric spells such as:
Hold Person - single target CC
Command - single target CC
Silence 15' r. - create a zone where certain spells just don't function for a period.
Spell Immunity - Target ignores next spell (with spell check vs caster)
Dispel Magic - Removes all current enemy spell effects in area.
or some of the Symbol spells to lay down favorable terrain that only triggers when enemy enters/near.
Symbol of Weakness, Pain, Stunning etc, etc.
If balanced and implemented well some of that stuff could make a DC as valuable for combat tactics as for healing/tanking/buffing.
No, that's FINE.
I want the DCs to STOP COMPLAINING that they cannot heal. That is all. And stop asking for even more buffs to healing.
Oh the DC gets attacked. Not all DCs are equal. Sometimes they have dumb builds and you're able to outdps their healing. So when your target is 10% HP, and DC comes at 100% HP, you still try to kill the GWF... until you realize his HP is going up not down. Then you switch to DC.
But, if you think killing DC is easy, think again. Even when I play my CW, it takes me a while (usually exactly long enough for DC friend to come and wipe me). And I need full daily+meatball burst crits to do it. Again, I'm talking about DCs at the same level of gear as me, maxed.
I completely agree with the requirements. They are dumb and should not be there, completely unfair to DCs.
DC's currently do not have as many healing problems as they did last mod due to righteousness rework, however, with the current meta of gwfs we're always cc'd so much we cannot cast anything... nothing like casting your artifact 3 times b/c you have to dodge and hten you get roared >.<
DCs can heal, but ONLY if they are using full Miracle Healer set. Our actual encounters are pretty horrible with healing depression. That DC saved the GWF because spamming those encounters/healing word charges procced the 4-piece bonus multiple times. This set bonus accounts for an entire 30% of our heals, and has the benefit of not being a small, slow HoT, which is what our other main heal is (healing word). Basically the only reason DCs can heal for noticeable amounts is by exploiting a set piece bonus that isn't affected by healing depression.
And to use full MH, we sacrifice a fair bit, most notably tenacity. With black ice sets, we may be sacrificing far more. And it will become a question of: do we want to die like sh*t but be able to heal with MH? Or do we want some extra survivability but crush our healing power?
I don't want to go back to the days where I simply stalemate another player on a point (hence the appeal of MH set), but I also don't want to completely melt when focused by classes with CC or a class paired with another that has CC (the appeal of other sets). This isn't a good balance for DCs.
You cannot trust the developers to fix things for you, as in adjust your healing to be better overall while making the MH set respect HD. It might end up in yet another GWF "nerf" fiasco type of situation, where instead of DC getting proper healing from abilities as they should, they will end up being truly broken. I know the current situation is not ideal, but at least you can heal within the meta and would also be tanky enough, if not for the GWF "nerf"... ahem.
But that is a GWF issue, I think, and all classes suffer because of it. Maybe HR not so much, can't tell for sure.
I think DCs know how things are in this game with "fixes", because I don't remember seeing DC-made topics about "Our MH set is bugged, please fix that and buff healing afterwards". Because it's risky and we all know why.
Well if the GWF is fixed, that will definitely be a huge help for DCs. DCs aren't obsolete, but if we're going to be ranking classes in terms of viability, DC would only rank above GF to bring in a PvP party.
He's not the only one I've played against a lot of good ones lately. It's getting to the point where during the initial rush, if I hear that sound they make when they break out their symbol, I think "Oh God, this is going to be an annoying fight."
DC's can't solo hold nodes anymore for very long but they can still be effective. I agree with the guy above me, if they tone down GWFs I think DCs would do a lot better.
My latest DC is a DO (the other three are AC), he is level 43 and has several Triple Kills and twice the number of Double Kills in PvP matches. I have not started IWD yet, so I would not know.
But it is a ridiculous setup in Neverwinter.
All other editions of AD&D had Class-Specific XP awards, so these should also be worked into the PvP Campaign and other things.
All characters get awards for killing, so it's not surprising GWFs and TR top the boards.
Rogues should get XP for disarming traps, so to make that worthwhile traps should do a LOT more damage in dungeons, so parties will stop charging off like it's a race and play more like a team. They should also get awards for the number of Backstab Sneak Attacks they do and how many Stuns and Critical Strikes they do.
Clerics should get XP for healing, and double for reviving someone in combat, and also for healing someone by 50% or more of their Max hp.
Guardians should get an award per 1000 damage blocked or something like that, and double for killing enemies, as they do not kill as easily as GWF, TR or HR, and an award for drawing all the threat a number of times within 60 seconds or something.
That's just off the top of my head with no thought - I'll check my old 1E, 2E and 3.5 E DMGs, but with a little thought there IS a way to make this game fair and balanced for all Classes.
AD&D was never just about the killing.
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