GWF, how do you deal with them?

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

Need help, facing GWF using roar and insane dammage burst. They kill me way to easily. Any suggestion?

demidogz · May 2014

You close your eyes... And hope to see another day...

Joke aside I think eventually the DC will still get killed, so maybe it's possible to stall as long as possible with Divine Astral Shield and/or Sunburst till help arrives.

Emblem (which has been nerfed sadly) or the new DC class artifact could come in handy.

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

thats what i was doing, using chain instead of sunburst when gwf is not unstoppable. but still when roar hit, I know im in deep ****. anyone tried `Break the spirit`? Maybe it would help survive their dammage output.

slushlikewind · May 2014

GWF hits too hard.

One rotation is normally half HP gone or more.

But if you dodge roar and takedown they can't do much besides using rush.

slushlikewind · May 2014

chiennedeluxe wrote: »

thats what i was doing, using chain instead of sunburst when gwf is not unstoppable. but still when roar hit, I know im in deep ****. anyone tried `Break the spirit`? Maybe it would help survive their dammage output.

Ditch sunburst and chain, they are useless against GWF.

You want the HW+AS+Exhalation.

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

It seem I have no choice but to use exaltation and hope teamates manage to kill ennemy . Using chain it helped a lot, preventing ennemy from running away etc... Also I gonna have to use passive divine fortune if I play with exaltation. Guess were pigeon holed into 1 kind of build.

refracted0dawn · May 2014

Exhalation? Exaltation!

I have 3 ACs, one with Prestigious Exaltation, Invigorated Healing and Moontouched, and usually the rotation is:

STUN STUN STUN KNOCKED PRONE STUN STUN STUN KNOCKED PRONE DEAD

That 6 second Immunity seems to not help at all.

Neither do ASh and HG.

And if there is a CW around, I am floating in mid-air as well.

~

plavia · May 2014

took me a while to accept it, but DC do more healing then damage
DC do more debuff / buff then damage as well

so if you wana take other charcter 1:1 its nearly impossible

GWF do lot of damage, can knock you fast and even the limited control powers we have hardly work on them
but
they are very predictable

you need to dodge, heal others, astral seal them and run fast (healing step and exaltation help alot)
try to bring them to your party, alone they are easy target

dyeing is another option but I usually try to postpone it

at the end, all characters are nearly impossible 1:1 when you are DC
the only one you might be able to kill are DC with ~5K GS bellow you (normally DC against other DC its dead end)
but due to religion and compassion I don't do that

metaplexus · May 2014

refracted0dawn, thanks for the laughs, that's exactly what happens many times a day

I try to make sure that if (read when) I'm proned, I'm inside my AS. If I know there's not a surge/roar/takedown coming within a few seconds, I'll try to hold my shield until I think they'll have it coming. It works pretty often, since many gwfs use the same rotations and same timings.

Timing is pretty essential for you, since GWFs' are straightforward in their moves (usually), they don't vary them too much.

Paying little on a GWF helps you recognize their movement and skill usage; otherwise, I'll wish the lord of RNG grants you lots of deflects.

jazzfong · May 2014

3 letters from me, RUN!!!

demonkyuubi · May 2014

all i know is to debuff them with high prophet and hope your team saves you from that monster. else you will be dead once you are out of stamina.

thestaggy · May 2014

All you can do is try and not die so quickly.

Pray that your team has 1 or more tanks (GF or GWF) of its own and run circles around them when a GWF is around. Screw up their aiming.

silverkelt · May 2014

thestaggy wrote: »

All you can do is try and not die so quickly.

Pray that your team has 1 or more tanks (GF or GWF) of its own and run circles around them when a GWF is around. Screw up their aiming.

This... without appropriate melees on your side your kind of a wasted spot, the best you can do is maintain as much presence on node 2.. Ive had 51 deaths in one match, that we won by a wide margin.

If there is no support on node, that is the best you can hope for, stay alive as long as possible and keep them from racking up points. It really doesnt matter how out of balance the gwf are, there is always going to be a class then can destroy the DC, they are just not a great 1 vs 1, and I dont see that changing. Sometimes, some poor undergeared guy rushes my DC, thats the only time I get kills, once or twice and then they usually stop trying to kill me 1 vs 1 and wait, or go up top or something if they are range.

I see no point in running away, unless you care about w/l records. if I can stay a nano second longer to prevent points from racking up, its more beneficial then me getting a pot and waiting to come back, its about the same amount of time between returning from a death to grabbing a pot , sometimes even quicker if you get a faster respawn time. Sometimes those prevent points is the difference in matches.

If there is no support, I usually go Exultation, SB and Shield.. sometimes Exultation FF and Shield, this is my full survive package under the AC path.. this will make me live 2-3 rotations maybe 4 if I can time dodges "just" right to prevent IBS from landing on me.

Its even worse when there is a 2 gwfs or 1 gwf and tr combo.. its usually 4 seconds or so to full death that way.

So goes pugging, sometimes you get the best setup for you and sometimes you dont. You can still win matches with a all cws/trs/hrs, but they better be hopping to 1 and 3 all the time and rove back to 2 to help prevent points.

lazuree · May 2014

GWF is a class very dependent on landing their encounters to do damage. Unfortunately, takedown has cd reduction when it misses >.<
However, with roar you can dodge it if you time your dodges right.
Here's a couple tips:
-dodge slightly after the threatening rush hits you, not before b/c this may waste a prone encounter if he's anticipating hitting you
-when you run out of stamina lay everything you have down, but not before then ie hallowed ground/ff/astral shield
-even when you're roared (rooted) you have a little bit of time to cast something-> this is the time to cast exaltation b/c gwfs usually blow their encounters in one rotation so exaltation will block the majority of the damage

Hope this helps:)

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

thestaggy wrote: »

All you can do is try and not die so quickly.

Pray that your team has 1 or more tanks (GF or GWF) of its own and run circles around them when a GWF is around. Screw up their aiming.

Im grinding a GWF right now, to learn how to play vs it. Its true that the aiming is HAMSTER, best idea so far.

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

lazuree wrote: »

GWF is a class very dependent on landing their encounters to do damage. Unfortunately, takedown has cd reduction when it misses >.<
However, with roar you can dodge it if you time your dodges right.
Here's a couple tips:
-dodge slightly after the threatening rush hits you, not before b/c this may waste a prone encounter if he's anticipating hitting you
-when you run out of stamina lay everything you have down, but not before then ie hallowed ground/ff/astral shield
-even when you're roared (rooted) you have a little bit of time to cast something-> this is the time to cast exaltation b/c gwfs usually blow their encounters in one rotation so exaltation will block the majority of the damage

Hope this helps:)

keeping exaltation when they got you with roar. Ill remember that. thanks!!

mddoughts · May 2014

I seem to be one of the few people who still plays a divine oracle in pvp. But I like running divine glow, hw, and as. I keep up hw and as on myself and try to damage them with divine glow and use my at wills while running in circles. I can only really beat the puny ones but I can keep them pretty busy for a long time.

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

So I tried pvpin tonight with exaltation and trying tricks you gave me. We faced team with 2-3 destroyer GWF. Nothing I could do, If they CC me once its over. IBS from all GWF or chain CC with IBS in between. Im starting to think that DC have no more place in pvp. Exaltation dont help vs CC.

Ive been playing DC since begining, and all we had was nerf over nerf over nerf. Now were worth ****. I dont know what the devs had in the head doing this. I guess none of them play DC.

jazzfong · May 2014

Yes Papa Smurf the devs do play DC, but once a year which is the moment they go pvp with us during events. Exaltation saves you once from an encounter, but they got 2 more encounters for u to deal with. Their daily which hit you twice will still hit you with its second hit even you dodge away the first hit. You still got proned. Their prones are very hard to avoid, however you can annoy them by stalling them for a few more seconds or sunbursting them away several times before u dead. Btw, the good GWFs i saw and met do not spam all encounters in a chain, instead they want 100% control on you, if you immuned the first one, they will stop for a split second before casting second prone on you so your exaltation only protect you once, never twice.

lazuree · May 2014

tbh there is nothing you can do in against a 3 gwf comp
i kite off the point and keep my teammate healed
as long as you stay alive long enough for your teammate to clear one of them, it usually turns out decently
I got cleared by two gwfs 3 times but my hr teammate was fine b/c they used up most of their cd's and dailies to finish me off
you can also bait them off the point

But yeah that class is broken and it makes me quite mad they got a buff...

plavia · May 2014

chiennedeluxe wrote: »

So I tried pvpin tonight with exaltation and trying tricks you gave me. We faced team with 2-3 destroyer GWF. Nothing I could do, If they CC me once its over. IBS from all GWF or chain CC with IBS in between. Im starting to think that DC have no more place in pvp. Exaltation dont help vs CC.

Ive been playing DC since begining, and all we had was nerf over nerf over nerf. Now were worth ****. I dont know what the devs had in the head doing this. I guess none of them play DC.

its obvious, but just in case
to play PVP with DC you need 3k def, 2K deflect and 20% tenacity at least
after that speed can be handy but its hard to get more then 10%

and usually DC + 2 GWF/GF will win against 3 GWF/GF
so in 5Vs5 or 20Vs20 DC have a roll

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

lazuree wrote: »

tbh there is nothing you can do in against a 3 gwf comp
i kite off the point and keep my teammate healed
as long as you stay alive long enough for your teammate to clear one of them, it usually turns out decently
I got cleared by two gwfs 3 times but my hr teammate was fine b/c they used up most of their cd's and dailies to finish me off
you can also bait them off the point

But yeah that class is broken and it makes me quite mad they got a buff...

That class got brocken the day they had acces to threatening rush. Buffing after that only made it worst.

masizin777 · May 2014

To kill them? First you run backwards, you slow them down with one of you encounters(forgemaster's flame or chains of blazing light), divine glow, brand of sun, daunting light, and shift when they get close or attack with a disable. when they get close to death hit them with your divine attack, but keep running. As a DC it is not your job to kill them you heal others and buff them and use your divine attack to finish off the near death, even if that means holding a point till reinforcements arrive or die trying!

metaplexus · May 2014

masizin777 wrote: »

To kill them? First you run backwards, ...

Sorry but that's probably the worst hint in pvp world in general, especially when in this game you won't get any daze effect when hit from behind.

Otherwise, your suggestion would work in pre-60 pvp by assuming no one has über-gear and preferably the gwf isn't using threatening rush.

masizin777 · May 2014

metaplexus wrote: »

Sorry but that's probably the worst hint in pvp world in general, especially when in this game you won't get any daze effect when hit from behind.

Otherwise, your suggestion would work in pre-60 pvp by assuming no one has über-gear and preferably the gwf isn't using threatening rush.

I prefer to aim when I shoot. It has only work 4 out of the 6 times I have tried it though.

metaplexus · May 2014

masizin777 wrote: »

I prefer to aim when I shoot. It has only work 4 out of the 6 times I have tried it though.

I don't want to be mean or anything, but I find it impossible to believe you have really done it at lvl 60 pvp. It works once every 20 matches, when there is a 6k gs gwf around and your team is so dominationg you can actually slot damaging skills.

spani4rd · May 2014

plavia wrote: »

its obvious, but just in case
to play PVP with DC you need 3k def, 2K deflect and 20% tenacity at least

Hardly. I have 2.1k Def, 900 deflect, 15% tenacity. It's all about the MH set, 36k HP. But if you go the route you went you're much more tanky to incoming dmg but you can't heal yourself nearly as effectively.

As a DC you should avoid 1 v 1 situations when at all possible. Ideally you want to be running from node to node stoping to heal your team up/ help take node and then off to assist another cap point. In pugs this is hard to do because of the zerg tactics, still try to stick with at least one other player, one who does some dmg.
If your team insists on all going to your home trying to kill people then you don't have much choice but running to cap other points, if you want to win, or you can just go support at home and enjoy some constant battling.
GWF's are really insane now, before mod 3 most of them were pretty easy to stalemate 1 v 1. Now though they do so much more dmg + roar and takedown on super low CD's. GPF also helps them add sustained dmg. With that said if you have to go 1 v 1 vs them Ideally I would use HW/BtS/Exalt but obviously I run HW/AS/Exalt so as people have already said you just do the best you can with your dodges and exalt to avoid the roar and takedown and if you do that you shouldn't get hit by IBS. The best thing is that they're predictable which makes using your shifts easier but even so once they get you with one rotation your probably in trouble.

tyrtallow · May 2014

Pretty much you just learn to live with it, for now. As everyone else's pointed out, destroyer GWFs are currently broken. As even good GFs/non-destro GWFs are dying to them (and god knows even though the devs are pretty tight lipped about the whole PvP balance thing they do know that they went too far with this one) I wouldn't bother going out of my way to do anything drastic (like respeccing, given zen prices) trying to accomplish the impossible.

As spani4rd suggested, a cleric's biggest defense atm is his own teammates. Specifically, their hitboxes. As long as you keep an eye out for CWs using tabbed Shard and as long your allies don't go running off on you every second (leaving you wide open to player targeting) you should at least be able to navigate a PvP brawl for several crucial seconds without getting killed outright. Longer if your team is good/your dodges are flawless. Whether you actually gain the upper hand during the fight though depends on you and your teammates.

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

Good news and bad news:

Good: they gonna remove the snare effect on roar.
Bad: they gonna increase dammage of destroyer's purpose. In fact it seem destroyer purpose only affect crit dammage, next patch it gonna work as the tooltip say... on all base dammage.

see in preview shard patch:
Combat and Balance

Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Destroyers Purpose: Destroyer's Purpose now correctly operates in its own damage layer rather than in the Critical Severity damage layer.

by the way I made a GWF last weekend, im now lvl 60 11.1kGS only and im killing everything except ultra geared HR.
I feel like I was racing with a honda civic (DC) and now they gave me a F1 (GWF)!!!

this is insanity.

tyrtallow · May 2014

That's not news, those are rumors and conjecture.

The dev who commented on Roar admitted he was still working on a fix, it remains to be seen what the final result will be and whether it will survive preview.
It remains to be seen how the new Destroyer's Purpose will do.

chiennedeluxe · May 2014

tyrtallow wrote: »

That's not news, those are rumors and conjecture.

The dev who commented on Roar admitted he was still working on a fix, it remains to be seen what the final result will be and whether it will survive preview.
It remains to be seen how the new Destroyer's Purpose will do.

This was posted this morning, you can look in dev tracker:

It is indeed bugged. I am working on a fix for it here, but I don't have a timeline for when it will see live. The gist of the change is as follows

1. It will no longer incorrectly ignore CC Immunity. This goes for the pushing effect as well as the interrupt.
2. It will no longer Root players.
3. The interrupted power will be placed on cooldown for 2 seconds if a power is successfully interrupted by Roar, rather than every time they are struck by it.
4. Activation time will be sped up just slightly.

This should preserve it as a tool to be used to slow down an opposing player's advance, but make it a little more risky to use without watching your opponent's powers. Given that the major CC component of the power is now conditional (the silence being on successful interrupt rather than on hit) I have sped up the activation slightly to make this a bit easier.

Thanks for finding this bug guys!

EDIT: Rewrote #3 for clarity.

GWF, how do you deal with them?

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