Why are we going to BoP?

doriangreigh · May 2014

I am certain I have seen some people mention why this is but really what is the logic behind it? One thing that makes doing the same thing over and over again is to be able to obtain something to sell to others who have trouble getting it. I am noticing a lot of people who have been playing that have gotten all they want/need from MC and VT tend to quit playing those because they are NOT profitable for them. More people farm CN than anything due to being able to resell those items and as new content comes out i'm guessing that value will dwindle at least a little.

Here are the facts:

You have made drops random, which is fine until you make them bop.

You have made it so that in some cases dozens if not more runs of the same thing are required for gear. This creates monotony and makes people bored.

Now that things are BoP people don't want to run those and new people can't find experienced people to farm for gear, because they are tired of running the same stuff and getting nothing beneficial out of it.

Game enjoyment is diminished as no one wants to keep doing something that doesn't benefit themselves.

IWD has now random items that BoP that are given straight to a specific character which means a DC might get a TR purple drop that is of ZERO use other than salvage and means that it will take that much longer to get a lucky drop that is useful. This leads to people getting what they need and then stopping which could lead to a lack of people to run things like HE for certain loot pieces.

I can understand BoP of certain things, but in the current state of things farming dungeons and IWD is and will get more difficult due to lack of participants willing to help which leads to scores of new players never learning how to do anything. BtA may help a little but seems like just a band aid fix.

Why not make bosses more predictable farms? CN has a 4 boss system, ring, neck, belt, and then last boss will do a main and off hand drop. Why are not more dungeons like this? Make those hidden or optional type bosses have a chance to drop a piece of gear. STOP with the EPIC level dungeons having a bosses drop BLUE gear its ridiculous. I ran an EPIC DREAD VAULT with our guild, we lost someone fairly early on but ended up four man beating the last boss. What was our reward? A loot drop one person got with no role and the chest, gave up BLUE BOOTS!!!! Epic Dread Vault completed and the chest reward was BLUE items for everyone, seriously? No wonder people don't want to run this dungeon.

All bosses of epic level should drop epic loot. It is just disrespectful to make players spend their valuable time to learn how to beat dungeons that are progressively harder only to lessen the rewards.

d00mee · May 2014

omg a huge +1

My whole guild is kinda left NW after VT-farm hit the server. MC was a huge step back (i actually liked the dungeon itself but the drops... omg idiotic.) My guildies was fine with farming CN and T2s back then but after a year of no new content released... I mean after introducing CN devs could not come out with a PvE content worth to play with ur guildies... 1 year? and no new PvE content really worth to play with a group...

It's really sad.

ghoulz66 · May 2014

Wait, what's BoP now...?

yarknarf · May 2014

ghoulz66 wrote: »

Wait, what's BoP now...?

Bop is a style of jazz characterized by fast tempo, instrumental virtuosity, and improvisation based on the combination of harmonic structure and melody. It was developed in the early and mid-1940s.

Or maybe they mean "bind on pick-up"

One or the other.

fluppery · May 2014

BOP = Bind on pickup. Meaning you cannot transfer the item to anyone else. When it's not gear for your class, about all you can do is Salvage it.

ghoulz66 · May 2014

I KNOW WHAT it is, I mean what items are BoP now.

iambecks1 · May 2014

Didn't everything become BoP when module 1 landed or am I missing something? xD

empalas · May 2014

The Epics you can receive in the Epic HE's in IWP and DV. I have received about 4 epics now...none for my class. So all I could do was salvage. It would have been better to have it coded so that if it rolls an epic but it isn't for your calls just give you 4000 RAD or equiv...would make it easier. Also it seems that the items it gives are also ones you can buy and just not the ones you can only get from drops.

fluppery · May 2014

iambecks1 wrote: »

Didn't everything become BoP when module 1 landed or am I missing something? xD

Maybe this posting is a self-generated necroposting from last year?

empalas · May 2014

iambecks1 wrote: »

Didn't everything become BoP when module 1 landed or am I missing something? xD

I haven't done much content outside of IWD so not sure if something happened to the drops in the tier 1 and tier 2 dungeons which is what the posts so far seem to imply.

yarknarf · May 2014

ghoulz66 wrote: »

I KNOW WHAT it is, I mean what items are BoP now.

The Icewind Dale HE items.

They are random drops, bind-on-pick-up, with a different version for each class.

So chances are when you finally do get that drop you are hunting for it will be for a different class with no way to transfer it.
All you can do is salvage the thing even if your alt is drooling over having the item.

PS sorry for confusion but your question was slightly ambiguous.

ghoulz66 · May 2014

Well, as long as I can buy the high vizers and ancient court mag for CW I won't blow my casket off. Still gotta gear my my CW and I hate RNG

rashylewizz · May 2014

My problem is, once you get your gear farming those dungeons stop being worth it anymore, hence PVE endgame in this game lacking and people either taking a break or transferring to PVP (PVP is the endgame now in a PVE-oriented game, how about that)

fluppery · May 2014

I kinda disagree with things no longer being worth the time.

I mean I still do somethings in the game just for fun but I've been too busy with collecting Black Ice n stuff lately.

I even do CT sometimes just for the heck of it.

But that's just me maybe, and why all my sentences began with *I*.

ashnvf · May 2014

yarknarf wrote: »

The Icewind Dale HE items.

They are random drops, bind-on-pick-up, with a different version for each class.

Isn't it just the Elk Tribe junk that is BoP? (The Black Ice stuff has always been for the class I was playing) I've gotten some Hammerstone junk that was tradable.

Does anyone really care about the Elk and Hammerstone junk? They have T1 stats and no set bonus. Other than for collection, why would anyone want to use this stuff?

doriangreigh · May 2014

empalas wrote: »

I haven't done much content outside of IWD so not sure if something happened to the drops in the tier 1 and tier 2 dungeons which is what the posts so far seem to imply.

To be clear i'm referring to game content as it is coming out. Sharandar and VT and now IWD is all BoP with no new content being farmable. My issue is I hardly ever find good groups to do T1 (outside of newbs that don't listen) and People I run with are really starting to wind down on T2 farming although I find groups for them its getting harder to find good groups that can finish them god forbid I start a new toon and need to gear up a 5th or 6th character right now.

What i'm saying is everyone is bored and the people that aren't don't know what they are doing and don't seem to want to listen or want to do stupid HAMSTER like glitch their way through or worse vote kick you before you finish last boss or steal loot that does drop.

So my plight is why is all the new content coming being BoP which is makeing people not want to farm or take other people who don't have gear through things to get drops that are difficult to get and need dozens if not hundreds of runs to acquire? Why can't we just BoE boss drops again? Or at least in the case of IWD make it so that the item you recieve is for YOUR class or even BtA (bind to account).

doriangreigh · May 2014

ashnvf wrote: »

Isn't it just the Elk Tribe junk that is BoP? (The Black Ice stuff has always been for the class I was playing) I've gotten some Hammerstone junk that was tradable.

Does anyone really care about the Elk and Hammerstone junk? They have T1 stats and no set bonus. Other than for collection, why would anyone want to use this stuff?

I haven't seen a single BI piece drop so to be honest I don't know. As far as I know and have heard the BI is NOT BoE or you would see it in the AH by now because tons of people have gotten multiples gloves and MH drops, I have not been so lucky and suspect I either won't or won't care when I do as i'll be on MOD 4 by the time I get one.

So far all I have gotten is salvage junk as you put it and no I don't care about it and now that you mention it, why on earth is there a new Module that require 3 boons from one of the earlier ones to get to which probably means you have at least T1 HAMSTER from those and not have any type of stat increase?? I mean really would it kill them to make the IWD hammerstone/elk stuff at least T2 stat rated???

Add this to the "can we have more designated drops for the two BI pieces you can't buy" threads I guess.

kuskusgila · May 2014

I'm partially ok with BI being BoP at first... but seeing the problem every time people doing Large / Epic HEs (engine cannot draw them due to overcrowding, hence people and boss ghosting) my IWD enjoyment starting to diminish. Now I'm wishing BI to be BoE instead.

I cannot enjoy doing large battles when things started to constantly appear - disappear, cannot revives npc / players because they are invisible in my screen, sudden damage from invisible boss AOE. I could forgive BI being BoP if Large / Epic HEs doesn't have these problems.

frishter · May 2014

The BoP is a continuing trend starting with MC and then onto VT now carrying on to icewind and kessels retreat. They're making the content artificially prolonged, though thankfully mod 3 was better than mod 2 which was better than mod 1 in terms of campaign progression (HEs mostly made it unique). But then you unlock the dungeon or epic skirmish and that should be the main thing to look forward to and repeat but people just get what they want (if even that) and are done. It really doesn't need to be that way and they could easily make it worth replaying the new content but they just don't and that hurts the players and enjoyment of the game

harrivenger · May 2014

That is the main reason why I prefer to farm PvP gears (through GG coins, Glory and Seals) than the PvE gears, which is the loot reward unpredictable and sometimes (like some of the posters here have mentioned) blue items.

kiralyn · May 2014

It's probably because I started my MMO career in WoW & similar games (where 90% of everything that drops in dungeons & raids was BoP), but I'm always surprised how much top-end stuff here is BoE.

lootjunkie · May 2014

You have to look at the larger picture. In order for this game to thrive and survive, it needs revenue. It would be different if every single one of us paid 60 bucks to buy the game and additional money for each new module. The fact is most of us have never paid a dime to play neverwinter and PWE has had to find ways to pry those elusive dollars from our wallets. If epic loots were all BoE, it would be great for game activity; hordes of us would be happily farming our brains out, selling our wares to other people and getting rich. The problem is we would hardly have a need to pull out our credit cards to buy some zen. I think that prior to Module1 coming out, the folks at PWE decided that the revenue stream for this game wasnt strong enough and decided to go the BoP route.

klangeddin · May 2014

It wouldn't be so bad if the daily AD refine limit for a single character wasn't so low. Doing DDs is still the best way to get rough AD that I know of.

I'd rather see that limit boosted to 100k, but make it account wise, so you cannot bot your way to cascades of AD and would actually encourage Dungeon Delves even for those who don't actually need anything there.

melodywhr · May 2014

initially, neverwinter did have a lot of BoE and after a short while, they changed most of it to BoP. so this isn't something that's just now happening. this changed back around module 1. they never made an official announcement as to why, but it did allow a lot of people to play on their mains and collect the best gear for their alts. there was a time when a lot of epic gear was dirt cheap in the auction hall. if top gear is BoP, then it forces players to actually PLAY their alts to earn their gear. we should be fortunate they haven't made enchantments bound.

masterjewstar · May 2014

melodywhr wrote: »

initially, neverwinter did have a lot of BoE and after a short while, they changed most of it to BoP. so this isn't something that's just now happening. this changed back around module 1. they never made an official announcement as to why, but it did allow a lot of people to play on their mains and collect the best gear for their alts. there was a time when a lot of epic gear was dirt cheap in the auction hall. if top gear is BoP, then it forces players to actually PLAY their alts to earn their gear. we should be fortunate they haven't made enchantments bound.

ha ha true dat about enchantments dont give em any ideas though lol. This is all true.

cbhughes · May 2014

I have to agree with the op. I started playing NW post sharandar and enjoyed MC up to the point i farmed my seals, got my armor set, and eventually my offhand. But always back n forth to other t2 dungeons including CN. But that was the time the gate glitch was still there and you didn't need DC/GWF/CWx3 and could play with a different class. But later on i rerolled to cw but i mean, who wouldn't when they're the god class of this game and gets invited to every party. So after jumping on the cw bandwagon i eventually farmed CN a while and VT to gain the gear from that. But now i'm left with thousands of seals from MC/VT that are basically useless since my refine cap is always maxed so theres no need to salvage dread/fable gear for ad. CN is pretty profitable so it's pretty much my go-to dungeon for money in this game minus the rare chance i go back to VT/MC for a artifact drop(still no drop btw).
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with sharandar or dread campaign, but I was saddened again knowing iwd will be thrown away like a cheap prostitute after we're done with it lol. Please hear our crys devs and make something profitable and that will be always active like CN.

frishter · May 2014

lootjunkie wrote: »

You have to look at the larger picture. In order for this game to thrive and survive, it needs revenue. It would be different if every single one of us paid 60 bucks to buy the game and additional money for each new module. The fact is most of us have never paid a dime to play neverwinter and PWE has had to find ways to pry those elusive dollars from our wallets. If epic loots were all BoE, it would be great for game activity; hordes of us would be happily farming our brains out, selling our wares to other people and getting rich. The problem is we would hardly have a need to pull out our credit cards to buy some zen. I think that prior to Module1 coming out, the folks at PWE decided that the revenue stream for this game wasnt strong enough and decided to go the BoP route.

Well people would still exchange zen for ad to buy the gear. The thing is people are playing old content instead of new content and we all know that relying on old content isn't going to keep people interested forever. The whole point of being free2play was to expand the player base. They could be trying to appeal to casuals I guess with less time and not give a **** about the ones who are more dedicated to the game, but that would be kind of sad and I'm not sure people will put up with it if things continue with this new trend. Some people put up with a lot of HAMSTER though which baffles me. This game is fun until you reach those 3 modules and once the old content gets stale theres little reason to keep playing and this game could be so much more with a little extra loving.

d4rthd00fus · May 2014

Agreed with all of OPs points. The BoP system has stagnated guild grouping for mature guilds with many players that have already done the gear grind across the BoP dungeons such as MC and VT. New members hoping for groups to do these dungeons often find no love, as motivation for geared players is low given the time investment. CN remains the one dungeon that is still run on a regular basis by geared players due to the potential for revenue. I don't understand Cryptic's reasoning for not providing us a new Castle Never type experience. We have hit this game's 1 year anniversary and we still only have one single revenue generating dungeon (sry T2s don't have a reliable enough drop system).

The potential is there and I'm hoping they are just holding out on us with the dungeon expected with Mod 3 coming soon and will be a return to form and not another slap in the face to their player base rewards wise. The new baddies in IWD would make for a challenging dungeon that could have 3-4 randomized variations and perhaps semi randomized mobs to keep it fresh (hell all the T2s should have had remixes by now).

theycallmetomu · May 2014

I don't mind BoP per se; if things aren't BoP, you'll find them on the AH, and since there will always be people getting stuff they can't use, the price tends to drop to trivial levels after a while. What I'd like to see more of is, like with the black ice vendor. You can buy the items for black ice, and black ice is non-transferrable. But you can't buy ALL of the items for black ice. You have to farm these epic encounters, which sometimes give you bupkis and half the time when you learn about them on an instance by the time you can engineer it for you to show up, the instance is over anyway.

I play PVE because I'm a solo player. I like to have decent gear. I bought HV off the AH. I bought the Fallen Dragon Orb pieces off the AH too! But I can't get the talisman because hey, that's BoP and you hve to fight a boss 20 times for a chance. It's just a huge pain.

More craftables IMO. Less of this "well, one thing is craftable and one thing is BoP!" nonsense. That's utter garbage. I went to the effort of maxing out artifice, I should be able to do something ACTUALLY useful for it. Not just "it's useful but only if you wanna run dungeons, or these new dungeonLite things we have."

rashylewizz · May 2014

I truly truly wish that module 4 will have dungeon with BOE loot, not another BOP crapfest.

Revive dungeon-raiding PVE endgame.

alphablaze22 · May 2014

I personally hate BoP. I should be able to sell stuff I don't equipped. I already had a stone of allure when I got my stone of radiance. Now it's sitting in my bank being useless. I'd like to actually make some AD for a change.

Why are we going to BoP?

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