Question on Map Transitions

bardaaron · May 2014

Is it possible to go from an exterior map, and transition to an interior map, and then from there transition back to the previous exterior map? Or do I need to create a duplicate map?

angrysprite · May 2014

Instanced quests are linear - so you cannot go backward. The only answer is to fully create the first map (the one you want to "return" to) then duplicate it. Then create your 'tween' map, so the player will go from first to second to third (duplicated first).

The reason is this: if you go backward (return to the first map) everything is reset and the entire map will start over - same mobs, same NPC dialogs, same everything. It would be as though the player abandoned the quest then restarted it.

eldarth · May 2014

No, you cannot transition back to a prior map.

If you want to do building "interiors" you can either "build" them on the outside map somewhere the PC cannot get or see, or else underneath the terrain.

In "Old Magic" I built several building interiors below the terrain and used teleporters (which are buggy and VERY difficult to use) that transported PC from spot above terrain (door/window/etc) to interior built below terrain.

In "Gruumsh's Tower of Conquest" I built a whole tunnel system from one portion of the map into the middle.

To "build" underneath the terrain, you need to setup a teleporter that will teleport you in 3-D previewer from a spot above the terrain to one below it -- make sure your "Movement" is set to "Free Camera" or you will fall below the world to your death. I usually pick a nice even Y value below the lowest terrain -- if you go to the lowest point above the terrain and type "/loc" you will get your X,Y,Z location. If your Y value is, say -80, then if you were to build your interior at Y=-100 that would only give you a 20' of room below the terrain. So, I'd put it at Y=-150 -- most room interior walls and such are about 20' high to give you room for the PC camera view.

celticgamer0 · May 2014

You would have to duplicate the map to 'return' to, but as far as interiors it works like any exterior map. You have to place a 'door' or house that you want to player to enter and use it as a 'enter/exit' when setting the component. If it is not listed as a component then you have to set up an 'invisible sparkly' under the invisible tab. It is best to then create your own empty map and then build the interior as you see fit and place a door for the player to 'exit' from once they finish the quest within. This is what I did for my quests, just be careful of doubling the interaction choices when doing this.

bardaaron · May 2014

Hmm, ok, interesting. I like the idea of a teleporter to underground, as long as I can fit it into my budget.

No matter what, I see it's going to be a hassle. If I duplicate the map, then anything I change in one I have to change in the other, and if I build my interior underneath, that's going to take a lot of work and put a strain on my budget.

angrysprite · May 2014

bardaaron wrote: »

If I duplicate the map, then anything I change in one I have to change in the other,

No.
*Finish* the original map - complete it , finish it to the point were it's *done* - THEN duplicate it. On the duplicate, only change what you need to change for the "return trip" of the player - such as new mobs, new NPC dialog and so one. Maybe move some of the NPCs around slightly. The point is that you are DONE with the original version, now you focus only on changes of the duplicated version.

bardaaron wrote: »

and if I build my interior underneath, that's going to take a lot of work and put a strain on my budget.

Then DON'T. Here's the thing: ANY map that runs too close to any of the budgets is an amateur map at best, just plain sloppy at worst. Don't do it.

Each map should be for a specific part of your quest. If you need a grand royal hall with staircase and a lot of props to be the foyer of a castle, then use one map for that foyer, a new map for the hallway. Don't try to build the rest of the castle on one map. That's crazy and silly.

The whole 'underground' thing is something I do not recommend. The maps mesh in Neverwinter are subtractive, not additive. In old 3D modeling the modeler starts with a wide-open space and starts building-up his models (the way you do on exterior maps). However, the newer method is to start with a solid construct and "dig-out" your spaces (like when you build interior maps). What you must realize is that exterior maps are also subtractive constructs - you are simply building-up in an empty space of a subtractive construct (Cryptic has already done the digging for you).

If you try to build anything underground on an exterior map it could have unexpected results for the player at they will be playing in the "solid" portion of the construct that was used to "dig-out" the exterior space by the Cryptic modelers. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or that things *will* go wrong, I am saying that things *can* go wrong, especially if there is ever a map update etc.

It is better to use multiple maps with fewer budget resources than to try to build one big map with everything all crammed into it.

Just a tip from some one who's been doing Foundry (and real 3D modeling) a very, very long time.

bardaaron · May 2014

Thank you for the advice angrysprite. And about changing things from one to the other, I mostly meant if I was tinkering at the end, I'd have to keep track, but yes, you are right that I should finish everything first before duplicating, then only change things that would actually be different.

bardaaron · May 2014

Actually I have another map-related question, in light of talking about duplicating maps: at one point I read someone talk about using up their allotment of maps, and only having 2 maps available to use for the rest of their foundry content. Is there really a limit to how many total maps you can make in the Foundry, across all your projects?

acr187 · May 2014

A true work of art is never finished, just abandoned.

Once you have published a work and are completely finished with it, is there any reason to keep it in your personal inventory? Why not delete it?

Yes, it can always be improved, but there comes a point when it's not worth the effort.

Something I've been struggling with. How do you create a quest from an NPC in, say, the Protector's Enclave to go and speak to someone else on the same map? When I work with the Foundry it always wants me to go to a new map. However it obviously can be done as you do it all the time in the regular quests.

angrysprite · May 2014

acr187 wrote: »

A true work of art is never finished, just abandoned.

Once you have published a work and are completely finished with it, is there any reason to keep it in your personal inventory? Why not delete it?

Yes, it can always be improved, but there comes a point when it's not worth the effort.

Something I've been struggling with. How do you create a quest from an NPC in, say, the Protector's Enclave to go and speak to someone else on the same map? When I work with the Foundry it always wants me to go to a new map. However it obviously can be done as you do it all the time in the regular quests.

In your storyboard the first item will be to meet contact - choose a contact in PE (or other primary zone).

apocrs1980 · May 2014

angrysprite wrote: »

Then DON'T. Here's the thing: ANY map that runs too close to any of the budgets is an amateur map at best, just plain sloppy at worst. Don't do it.

Just a tip from some one who's been doing Foundry (and real 3D modeling) a very, very long time.

Actually Angrysprite, I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this point.
All of my maps are nearly maxed out on a number of budgets (mostly details)

and while I do not want to come off as narcissistic in any fashion, I do not consider the maps I build to be armature at best...just saying.

eldarth · May 2014

acr187 wrote: »

Once you have published a work and are completely finished with it, is there any reason to keep it in your personal inventory? Why not delete it?

I'd suggest not deleting it because nearly every module release, many, many people have had to re-publish there quest due to Cryptic failing to republish it, and/or a new module has always broken several quests that require fixing or new workarounds.

So, if you want your quest to last for 1 module release (a few months) and then be gone forever, by all means, delete it.

Question on Map Transitions

Comments