We all know the defense to the "greed only" all agreed run when someone "accidently" hits needs and refuses to talk in party chat. A nice little clicky on the vote kick option and viola! No more ninja looter.
Oh wait, this doesn't work anymore as soon as the ninja looter(s) is paired with a friend. Even though it only takes 1 other person to say yes for the vote-kick to go through, the system doesn't determine the result until after everyone has voted!!!!
The new ninja-loot meta is for ninja's to click need at 25-30% time left on the roll and their buddy to refuse to click yes/no. Even though the majority in the party wants the ninja-looter gone, there is nothing we can do but watch as the timer hits zero and the loot is awarded.
FIX: As soon as the condition for vote-kick to succeed is met, kick the person THEN ! do not wait until everyone has voted.
EDIT FOR COMPLETION: Whenever a class item drops that is not my class, I'm launching vote kick against all class members that can roll need if you haven't clicked greed at 75%. Its a true shame that some ppl force this kind of protective actions, but it is what it is
Comments
Personally I never run greed with random pugs, only Legit folks and guild/friends.
- JailBreak (in development)
If this is a guild run to help out a new member, they can just pass on the item and let the new player need it anyways or make some sort of agreement.
Its the "gentlemen's" agreements to roll greed that the average NW bottom-feeder can't respect.
I have been playing almost a year now and early I found people were needed on anything alot but the problem was solved with class based drops ie you can't need a DC item if GWF etc. So having people need everything is a little un-fair because most parties run with 2 or more of a class ( sometimes 3) which benefits the single class toon ie DC and/or HR or TR as there is NEVER more than one of them in a party.
Also I run 5-10 dungeons a day and the last time someone "accidently "needed was weeks ago. Maybe you guys are just having bad luck but if you state at the start of the run GREED on epics 99/100 people will do the right thing.
To their defense, they changed to the current system after an open need system failed. Ironically for the situations you described, this would make more sense right now.
What you could also do is apply class need on BoP items and apply open need on everything BoE. Back then the change from the open need system was required because people would just need on everything. But everything was also valuable to a certain degree. Today you get these "valuable" items for peanuts in the AH and most people pass on them (rare drops from bosses just to name one example). With loot from DD chests also being BoE it was a completely different stage of the game.
Today the consensus is to greed on all epics/everything of AH value so the loot system should reflect that development as well, just like it did with the change back then.
The reason I hate pugging now is because of 1. chance I'll get booted during the loot roles and 2. being an honorable person as I am, seeing my needed tier gear drop and having to pick greed because folks will boot you if you legitimately help beat the boss and hit need because you actually need the item.
What would be nice is if the DD chest was always BOE and the boss loot was BOP for tier gear. Done, no one would give a rats <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you hit need and the market can still have the market items to keep the economy going...
The chest has been BoE and trust me, with players having long outgeared T2 and the occasional exploit here and there, it's a very bad idea to make them BoE again. The economy would crash. I bought my first HV set during BoE chest times, can't recall the exact price, but jeez it was cheap.
I know others have brought this up but really having a brutal time lately in pugs. Something needs to be done, not worth playing if you can't have a shot at the end....
So the answer is what? Only do guild runs? Don't trust the LFG system? Sounds like a broken system in my opinion...
The system needs to simply do the rolls for everyone and assign loot personally and privately. No, will see what you get, therefore no one will cry or complain about it. It cant be cheated, it cant be gamed, and if implemented properly. With weighted rolls based on previous wins or losses. It can be as close to fair as anything can get.
I don't honestly understand the need to continue to cling to a system that has been the source of so much friction for so long, in so many MMOs and not just this one.
End the need/greed/pass system.
Assign loot automatically (without a popup), either randomly or using an algorithm.
You want T1/T2 gear? It's in the DD chest and on the auction house.
You want pvp gear? Play pvp and buy your pvp gear.
Immersion:
Popups and huge taskbars reduce my immersion into the game.
To me, most first person shooters are more immersive than most mmo RPG's.
Why? because first person shooters have minimalist HUD's and no loot pop-up's.
NW has a minimalist HUD which is good, but please end the loot pop-up's.
I don't understand why they label players who want other classes' gears for extra cash as "being greedy". I have never clicked that button.
Aaaaaand that's why you should never greed with PUGs...
Yep, a "greed only" toggle when creating a party. So simple.
As for NW_Legit_Community runs, I did see some cases of ninja-loot. And admittedly this is where the ninja has the most chances to be successful. One wolf and four sheep.
A greed only option would thus be nice, as it could save you from these instant kicking greedy guts.
Why even have the need option then?
If it is an all-guild run to help gear up a person, then they can work it out amongst themselves
Jugger Conq GF
....
Maybe for MC?, there is BoP stuff?...
And? People can get it for their alts. They spent as much resources farming for gear, they should have equal chance to get the reward
The option "only need allowed" would have the same consequences, no need for your elaborated system.
No if it would be that way, I would be crying for any Epic that I don't get lol, in my case is because I hate press need or greed for every single uncommon, rare and epic items AND If I lfg and they say need run I'm ok with that, if the say greed run I'm ok with that too, if I'm in a party with guildmates and they will use the item I'm ok if they need it, the thing that I hate is that someone say greed run and the in the middle of the run they need items, I'm not greedy or inmature, I don't like to be lied.
If they add an option to make all the 5 members automatically greed or need, ¿what would be the problem?, everyone that look for a need party will be able to do it just like now, and he/shee won't need to press need/greed any more .
If they wan't make a need or greed run is up to the party, and to lie and need in a greed run is an option, but if you can make 1 dungeon by day (because you study, work, etc...), it's annying to lose your time with a guy that wants to take advantage of the other 4, and if there's not DD, the only thing you are doing it's wasting your time.
PS: There are sometime that I've made mistakes in pressing need/greed (where I needed things that should be greeded or the other way) and I'm sure a lot of ppl too, that would be corrected by the system I'm saying
Has very little to do with greed. As others have pointed out, if a party agrees up front that the run is need based than that is fine. I can assure you though, most ppl would simply leave group and look for the greed only groups. It's the simple fact that most ppl want to rewarded for their time. Most often that simply equates to have an equal chance at getting a drop to use or sell.
It's typically the players that want need runs that are the selfish greedy ones. Got to love seeing avatar of war gear being sold by a gwf, or hv gear by a cw. How many times have ppl watched players roll need on gear they are currently wearing??
That is no longer need, that is simply greed being enabled by a broken system. While lll won't hold my breath waiting for a greed only loot mode it would be nice to have the option.
The only negative to one is that players will never see a need run again. Imagine trying to convince all the cw and gwf that are normally 2-3 stacked in parties to allow any group to be need based knowing they would still need to roll against others.
That sounds nicce.