It's funny how so many well-geared, reasonably skilled PVPers can be lured off point if they think they can snag an easy kill. This is especially true of those running cookie cutter GWF builds. I don't know how many times my HR has led kill-hungry GWFs on epic cross-map chases while at low health. Meanwhile my team wipes out the rest of the enemy, caps all the points, and when I lead the GWF right back to my teammates he gets massacred. What's even funnier is when this happens multiple times in the same match.
Those are the worst.
I also always tell my pugs to fight on points. Of course there are situations where you might want to take the battle out on the field, but diverse strategy is something that belongs to high-end and competitive PVP.
On a normal day, you have to brief these headless chickens on their 50% mounts. So there's two things: Rush to 2 and fight on points. It's also a good measurement whether the match is worth it or not. If people after being instructed still act clueless, I can safely camp out the match and invest my time somewhere else, because it's going to be a loss anyway.
But PVP is a lot bigger than this fighting on point or not thing.
There are multiple areas u can acess to value a player's skill. And fighting on node is more like one of the sub-sub-point within those catagorys...
Again I would urge OP stop trying to educate the PVP community. 90% of the players you run into in PVP are serious PUG that would never improve. Find good players, add them to your friend list, or join a competitive PVP guild. That is what you would need to do if you don't like carrying all those 10k gs scrubs.
It's funny how so many well-geared, reasonably skilled PVPers can be lured off point if they think they can snag an easy kill. This is especially true of those running cookie cutter GWF builds. I don't know how many times my HR has led kill-hungry GWFs on epic cross-map chases while at low health. Meanwhile my team wipes out the rest of the enemy, caps all the points, and when I lead the GWF right back to my teammates he gets massacred. What's even funnier is when this happens multiple times in the same match.
I see this all the time as well. I've literally seen 3 guys run off to chase down 1 dude with a sliver of health, what's he going to do other than be useless until he manages to find a heal?
Also, as for the topic of tower contesting - A lot of people focus on getting kills in PvP and ignore the tower mechanics completely. Most of the time when I play I am actively trying to contest stuff and using every dirty trick I can think of, even if I know I am doomed to die (and when I do die, it's always on a tower).
As far as I'm concerned, if I manage to peel off 2-3 players while my teammates manage to finally amble over to #2 and take it, then that's a win. This is particularly easy to do on the hotenow map if you have knockbacks, because you can fling derp-heads off the platform. I met a really good GF the other day who was using this tactic and it was hysterical to watch, even if it was frustrating for me to have to side strafe and put my back to the wall all the bloody time when fighting him. Mad props to someone actually playing correctly...
If an HR drops a Thorn Ward onto the node and a CW is up top raining havoc down onto the node, well my friends, you can stay on that node all you want.. As for me, I am bailing and taking my fight to them. I wont chase them far, but I definitely feel a Lunging Strike, Bull Rush and Anvil of doom is certainly an acceptable response.. Then I will head back to my node... But to say there is no reason to leave the node and anyone who leaves the node to fight is an idiot is awfully short sighted and mean spirited.. This is my opinion and my tactic.. I am not arrogant enough to say it is the "only" tactic.. I am saying it is mine.. If you wish to fight with people sharing your same views, sometimes it might be best to only fight with your guild members and not trying to force your tactics onto pugs. It saves you frustration and saves the pugs from having to be told how idiotic they are.
If an HR drops a Thorn Ward onto the node and a CW is up top raining havoc down onto the node, well my friends, you can stay on that node all you want.."
+1 For me.Couldn't agreee more.
" But to say there is no reason to leave the node and anyone who leaves the node to fight is an idiot is awfully short sighted and mean spirited.. "
+1
To all of you that exorcize the fight of node.If the enemy has 2 HR and make an "8" with thorn ward on mid.While the enemy GWf stand there.You fight on node??
Great tactic!!!You will all die by a lethal combination of these
a)by thorn wards
b)By the gWf
3)By the HRs that are in shooting range of the node and can support each other.
You died?Congrats.You did not won the node,you barely contested it.Enemy has mid and base and has put you in a vicious circle of numerical inferiority.
Yes great tactic.Idiot pugs do not know true pvp strategy.Only the pvpers the chosen ones have the ultimate knowledge of the supreme tactic to fight in a thorn warded node and stand there while HRs decimate them from afar.true brilliant tactic
Sidenote:Most pvpers from top pvp guilds many times in the forums argue about "advanced" ,"enhanced" tactics.yet ALL the times i have met some of these premades they follow the most simple and brutal effective tactic:Fight concentrated and move en mass clearing the nodes one by one quickly ,putting their enemies in an numerical inferiority cycle untill they reach 3 and contest it permanedly.
In general and bottomline and little irrelevant ;PVP is not a rocket science.Think simple and act simple:If you can contest a node do it.If time is urgent and score near ,charge 1vs 5 a node:time is precious.But sometimes it is better to lose some seconds of contesting but instead to wait for your team8s and go for a full fight killing the enemy team and taking the node for good.
Absolute truths and dogmas are not good neither in games nor in life.
And to add:Most of the gamers that are adamant clear to fight on the node have most of the time the view never to contest a node from a perma:
One moment type "fight on nodes idiots".Second moment "leave perma in node alone".Third moment "kill CWs first!!' (CWs out of nodes or in pillars" .Fourth moment "fight on nodes!!" .Fifth moment"you are all idiots u cannot follow simple and clear instructions.." :P
I doubt anyone who still doesn't understand the mechanics of capturing and holding points is bothering to spend their time reading the forums. Whether to chase, hold, or run is entirely situational and depends on numbers, classes and where the rest of your team is positioned on the map. No rule will fit every situation, if someone is consistently out of position on your team they probably are mentally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> or just don't give a ****, and there is no point worrying about what they are doing as it will just add stress to you and won't affect their behavior.
I doubt anyone who still doesn't understand the mechanics of capturing and holding points is bothering to spend their time reading the forums. Whether to chase, hold, or run is entirely situational and depends on numbers, classes and where the rest of your team is positioned on the map. No rule will fit every situation, if someone is consistently out of position on your team they probably are mentally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> or just don't give a ****, and there is no point worrying about what they are doing as it will just add stress to you and won't affect their behavior.
Sidenote:Most pvpers from top pvp guilds many times in the forums argue about "advanced" ,"enhanced" tactics.yet ALL the times i have met some of these premades they follow the most simple and brutal effective tactic:Fight concentrated and move en mass clearing the nodes one by one quickly ,putting their enemies in an numerical inferiority cycle untill they reach 3 and contest it permanedly.
That's only happening cause you pugs won't back-cap allowing us to stay together, and you have no HP and die in 2 seconds of being focused.
Next time you go back-cap with a good perma, and suddenly at least one of the premade will have to split and face him.
All in all, if you see a premade moving as a 4-5 men team and destroying everything, it's only because you lost 1vs1s very fast everywhere.
What the previous user said. The top pvp guild tactic is NOT about running from point to point en masse, it just ends up being that way because PUGs get cleared so fast.
And to add:Most of the gamers that are adamant clear to fight on the node have most of the time the view never to contest a node from a perma:
One moment type "fight on nodes idiots".Second moment "leave perma in node alone".Third moment "kill CWs first!!' (CWs out of nodes or in pillars" .Fourth moment "fight on nodes!!" .Fifth moment"you are all idiots u cannot follow simple and clear instructions.." :P
Those instructions sound about right. Fight on the nodes to keep them contested if you don't own them. Do not waste time trying to 2v1a perma if it takes you forever to clear it or you can't clear it (leaving someone on a different point to die 1v2) when one person can simply stalemate that tr. Focus CWs first because they are the squishiest and one of the most deadly classes if allowed to free-cast.
Back to the original topic: obviously, it's sometimes advantageous to fight off-point (mainly when intercepting or luring other classes off a point your team owns). I don't think ANYONE here is arguing against that. If someone is yelling at you to fight on a point, I'm pretty sure they aren't yelling at you to fight on an uncontested point you own. Chances are, you're fighting off-point, allowing the enemy to cap. I've never seen someone get yelled at for NOT fighting on a point your team has.
Well, i sometimes DO Fight outside the node, but that is to lure GWFs and GF out from capping my node. However, when they realise my dps was very low then they just tank and stand at mid for capping... Then i was forced to jump in too, and kite them out again when i am red... the entire loop continue again till the third person from either team arrive. That is my pvp experience from pugging.
Quick tip to add. If you are on your home cap, and there is another teammate there, And you don't kill the enemy that's on your node in 1 or 2 rotations LEAVE!!!
They are back capping you! See how all the experienced PvPers (and Persephone) are telling you to backcap? If you are a pug, you fall for it and you stack on your home cap, leaving the other two nodes vulnerable. If you leave and go back cap them, you will draw the enemy from the other points and they will stack on the back cap like pugs. You then have the opportunity to two cap them.
None of this will help though if you are running 8k GS and rocken frost enchants... soooo....
And about the standing on points thing, it's actually pretty easy. If the node is anything other than solid blue, stand on it. If it's blue PUSH!!!! Don't stand on the solid blue mid cap while I'm on their back 5v1 cause when they wipe me... You're next...
5 incoming - one move off point to lure, this slows the cap time down, meaning the cap you own is gaining points, and the contested node is spooling slowly - more points for you. if you DON't own a node, 1 peel off and stand on one of theirs.
4 incoming - if 3 team, fight on point, if 4 team as above.
3 incoming - if 3 team fight on point, if 4 team, one move off, if 2 team fight on point, focus same target.
2 incoming - if solo fight on point, it's closer to the rest of your team (total team, not nubs hiding out of sight near potions in Rivenscar or on the bridge in Hotenow)
1 incoming - 1v1 on point.
Intro gambits -
1 to home base 4 to middle
1 to home base, 3 to middle, one to their base
5 to middle
4 to middle, 1 to their base
3 OP classes to middle, 2 to their base
2 OP classes+1 support to middle, 1 to your base, one of your OP classes to their base.
You should have established a lead by now and the only reasons to fight on point are listed at top.
RE: people yelling in PvP.
As you can see the opening gambits above are limited, if THESE FAIL, people get frustrated. It's only fair that team mates flame-out when frustrated, otherwise sell-out teams or "fanbois" will just make people quit. It's easy to ignore party chat, and usually leads to yelling in games anyways.
Walk away from your game with a desire to communicate next time and you'll co-ordinate openings in the fireplace, without winging it towards the game-deciding middle base standoff.
ADDED INFO: If your team is losing badly consider this - They are mismatched at their competition rating and they want to sink down a bit to farm glory - 4 games lost moves into a winning streak of 5, awarding more PvP potions.
The fireplace is the ONLY time to quickly talk to everybody.
I play Giggles, and the only apologies I'll make about my conduct in lose-team pvp matches is this: The brain of a player can assess the teams performance, if they are mouthing off they are trying to lead too late, I've done this, expecting a smooth game. I've noticed teams that "want to lose" and teams that have 4 strategies running in one team with no compromise.
Each of us have a game-style we choose to operate, whether it's Curb-stomp rushes, opening retreats (more than 3 on home base), 5-middle standoffs.
NW is NOT a spreadsheet game, if it gets too disrespectful TOO quickly, just PM saying "I'm not playing to read this %%%%" and ignore, unless you want to identify yourself for "advertising" reasons.
They only last 20mins at the VERY MOST, do NOT let one team wreck your train of thought, let alone decide on the others forever ever ever ever.
(My ignore list is only slightly longer than my friends list)
5 incoming - one move off point to lure, this slows the cap time down, meaning the cap you own is gaining points, and the contested node is spooling slowly - more points for you. if you DON't own a node, 1 peel off and stand on one of theirs.
4 incoming - if 3 team, fight on point, if 4 team as above.
3 incoming - if 3 team fight on point, if 4 team, one move off, if 2 team fight on point, focus same target.
2 incoming - if solo fight on point, it's closer to the rest of your team (total team, not nubs hiding out of sight near potions in Rivenscar or on the bridge in Hotenow)
1 incoming - 1v1 on point.
Intro gambits -
1 to home base 4 to middle
1 to home base, 3 to middle, one to their base
5 to middle
4 to middle, 1 to their base
3 OP classes to middle, 2 to their base
2 OP classes+1 support to middle, 1 to your base, one of your OP classes to their base.
You should have established a lead by now and the only reasons to fight on point are listed at top.
RE: people yelling in PvP.
As you can see the opening gambits above are limited, if THESE FAIL, people get frustrated. It's only fair that team mates flame-out when frustrated, otherwise sell-out teams or "fanbois" will just make people quit. It's easy to ignore party chat, and usually leads to yelling in games anyways.
Walk away from your game with a desire to communicate next time and you'll co-ordinate openings in the fireplace, without winging it towards the game-deciding middle base standoff.
ADDED INFO: If your team is losing badly consider this - They are mismatched at their competition rating and they want to sink down a bit to farm glory - 4 games lost moves into a winning streak of 5, awarding more PvP potions.
The fireplace is the ONLY time to quickly talk to everybody.
I play Giggles, and the only apologies I'll make about my conduct in lose-team pvp matches is this: The brain of a player can assess the teams performance, if they are mouthing off they are trying to lead too late, I've done this, expecting a smooth game. I've noticed teams that "want to lose" and teams that have 4 strategies running in one team with no compromise.
Each of us have a game-style we choose to operate, whether it's Curb-stomp rushes, opening retreats (more than 3 on home base), 5-middle standoffs.
NW is NOT a spreadsheet game, if it gets too disrespectful TOO quickly, just PM saying "I'm not playing to read this %%%%" and ignore, unless you want to identify yourself for "advertising" reasons.
They only last 20mins at the VERY MOST, do NOT let one team wreck your train of thought, let alone decide on the others forever ever ever ever.
(My ignore list is only slightly longer than my friends list)
That's only happening cause you pugs won't back-cap allowing us to stay together, and you have no HP and die in 2 seconds of being focused.
Next time you go back-cap with a good perma, and suddenly at least one of the premade will have to split and face him.
All in all, if you see a premade moving as a 4-5 men team and destroying everything, it's only because you lost 1vs1s very fast everywhere.
This ^
The only time you will see group gangbanging from a premade is when the opposite team is horrible. Now if you are in a pug (all i do is pug so I know this from experience) You are already at a huge disadvantage because of coms and more than likely there is going to be a major gear desparity. Your only real hope of making points is to try and fight like they fight each other, and that is point holders/contesters smart and not so selfish and rovers that are aware of where to be.
To be honest, the chances of beating a good premade are slim in a pug. But you do not have to lose 1000-3.
Signs you are in a bad pug.
1. When the gate drops 2 or more run to home to cap. These are either inexperienced players , or they lose so often that they just want to get that initial 300 for a better chance of making a few glory. This leaves you basically dead at 2, and after the initial engagement the enemy will have thier home and 2 ticking.
2. Home pride. the enemy will send a point holder to your home. for some reason people think it is more important to rid home of that pesky hr, or tr. They will bunch up there and allow the other points to tick while they try (most times successfully) to kill the point holder. the enemy rovers make it to your home, and now that is where they stay, as your team keeps running back there from spawn.
3. Everyone runs to 2 and they lose the initial engagement. So what we have here is a more skilled/geared team as enemies. People die and run back to two. since people die at intervels, the enemy team releases thier point holders to 1 and 3 , as your team continues to run back to two 1 or 2 at a time, and continually get decimated by the 3 rovers from the enemy team. Meanwhile 1 and 3 tick away.
4. Your team has players that only want to top the kill list. If this happens to you, you are pretty much screwed. Sorry.
5. you kill an enemy on a node, and then 2 or 3 of your team show up and sit there on thier mounts to get the 300 points, meanwhile the enemy is taking the other two nodes, or they are ticking away.
There are many more cycles of failure, but these are the ones i see most. They are also mistakes I made early on in my learning process.
The only time you will see group gangbanging from a premade is when the opposite team is horrible. Now if you are in a pug (all i do is pug so I know this from experience) You are already at a huge disadvantage because of coms and more than likely there is going to be a major gear desparity. Your only real hope of making points is to try and fight like they fight each other, and that is point holders/contesters smart and not so selfish and rovers that are aware of where to be.
To be honest, the chances of beating a good premade are slim in a pug. But you do not have to lose 1000-3.
Signs you are in a bad pug.
1. When the gate drops 2 or more run to home to cap. These are either inexperienced players , or they lose so often that they just want to get that initial 300 for a better chance of making a few glory. This leaves you basically dead at 2, and after the initial engagement the enemy will have thier home and 2 ticking.
2. Home pride. the enemy will send a point holder to your home. for some reason people think it is more important to rid home of that pesky hr, or tr. They will bunch up there and allow the other points to tick while they try (most times successfully) to kill the point holder. the enemy rovers make it to your home, and now that is where they stay, as your team keeps running back there from spawn.
3. Everyone runs to 2 and they lose the initial engagement. So what we have here is a more skilled/geared team as enemies. People die and run back to two. since people die at intervels, the enemy team releases thier point holders to 1 and 3 , as your team continues to run back to two 1 or 2 at a time, and continually get decimated by the 3 rovers from the enemy team. Meanwhile 1 and 3 tick away.
4. Your team has players that only want to top the kill list. If this happens to you, you are pretty much screwed. Sorry.
5. you kill an enemy on a node, and then 2 or 3 of your team show up and sit there on thier mounts to get the 300 points, meanwhile the enemy is taking the other two nodes, or they are ticking away.
There are many more cycles of failure, but these are the ones i see most. They are also mistakes I made early on in my learning process.
The whole pug but me running to home is what I see most often. The next most often are people just running everywhere randomly. Like wtf is that guy doing standing by himself on the opposite side of the map near the bridge? Like just standing there. Or running back and forth across the bridge. The gwf who caps home node and always try to rove just fing kills me. It leaves my hr to try and fill the point holder gap.
Most frustrating is being on a team and THE ONLY NODES EVER CAPED ARE THE ONES I AM ON. I HATE THAT. An HR. A rover. FFS I kill off the tr on home node while 2 is contested, cap it, head to enemy node, contest it until a single enemy player comes to fight, kill him, cap that, and by then both 2 and home node are red again. So I go to two where three of the enemy team are and none of mine, and see home and enemy node slowly turning red. Wtf. It REALLY pisses me off when I can pull 3 of the 5 of the enemy team all the way to their own node, keep them all busy for a good 2 minutes, and when I finally go down I see that the other nodes are still red. Its like, comeon, I just held most of the other team there and you guys couldnt even cap a single fing node in that time????
The whole pug but me running to home is what I see most often. The next most often are people just running everywhere randomly. Like wtf is that guy doing standing by himself on the opposite side of the map near the bridge? Like just standing there. Or running back and forth across the bridge. The gwf who caps home node and always try to rove just fing kills me. It leaves my hr to try and fill the point holder gap.
Most frustrating is being on a team and THE ONLY NODES EVER CAPED ARE THE ONES I AM ON. I HATE THAT. An HR. A rover. FFS I kill off the tr on home node while 2 is contested, cap it, head to enemy node, contest it until a single enemy player comes to fight, kill him, cap that, and by then both 2 and home node are red again. So I go to two where three of the enemy team are and none of mine, and see home and enemy node slowly turning red. Wtf. It REALLY pisses me off when I can pull 3 of the 5 of the enemy team all the way to their own node, keep them all busy for a good 2 minutes, and when I finally go down I see that the other nodes are still red. Its like, comeon, I just held most of the other team there and you guys couldnt even cap a single fing node in that time????
Amazing. This is almost exactly my Pug experience also. So frustrating. I have to work hard not to be 'that guy' who rages on chat. Sometimes I fail.
Look, the current system highly favors premades in many ways. Although it seems like they've tweaked matchmaking once again at some point over the last days, queues got longer and matches more balanced, this is still very much true.
It's just something you need to know before queuing up. If you, like me, just want to play a PVP here and there for the daily, it's best not to bother and camp/leave and switch chars. I try to brief pugs, but if it doesn't help the match simply isn't worth it. That way I'm getting three or four wins in per event hour and don't feel like I'm wasting time. If I know basic strategy, I want matchmaking to pair me with teammates that also do. Not capable? See you in 30 minutes.
The whole pug but me running to home is what I see most often. The next most often are people just running everywhere randomly. Like wtf is that guy doing standing by himself on the opposite side of the map near the bridge? Like just standing there. Or running back and forth across the bridge. The gwf who caps home node and always try to rove just fing kills me. It leaves my hr to try and fill the point holder gap.
Most frustrating is being on a team and THE ONLY NODES EVER CAPED ARE THE ONES I AM ON. I HATE THAT. An HR. A rover. FFS I kill off the tr on home node while 2 is contested, cap it, head to enemy node, contest it until a single enemy player comes to fight, kill him, cap that, and by then both 2 and home node are red again. So I go to two where three of the enemy team are and none of mine, and see home and enemy node slowly turning red. Wtf. It REALLY pisses me off when I can pull 3 of the 5 of the enemy team all the way to their own node, keep them all busy for a good 2 minutes, and when I finally go down I see that the other nodes are still red. Its like, comeon, I just held most of the other team there and you guys couldnt even cap a single fing node in that time????
Stuff like this happens all the time, and on both sides. One cannot blame others for not being as experienced as oneself. Experience comes with a lot of hard lessons and others have to learn them, too. To go mad about it means you only do not see your "younger self" in those other players and have forgotten how bad you were at start.
Stuff like this happens all the time, and on both sides. One cannot blame others for not being as experienced as oneself. Experience comes with a lot of hard lessons and others have to learn them, too. To go mad about it means you only do not see your "younger self" in those other players and have forgotten how bad you were at start.
It's not just younger players, unfortunately. It's a shame that only a few can handle taking pointers or constructive criticism.
It's not just younger players, unfortunately. It's a shame that only a few can handle taking pointers or constructive criticism.
Nonsense. It is not a shame to ignore another player. I do it all the time by turning off the chat window during PvP. 99% of the time are the pointers and criticisms just bad. The intentions may be good, but it too often comes from lazy players who only want others to do what they should be doing themselves. Or as they say, "if you want something done right then you need to do it yourself," which is why I never tell anyone during a match how to play it, but I step in and help where help is needed. This is the essence of teamwork in PvP for me, and that I get to kill others in the process is only a nice bonus. I would say it is a shame not everybody is willing to make such a sacrifice, but there are many players who silently give their best even when it is sometimes not good enough.
PS: I meant "younger self" as when you started with the game and not simply young or younger players.
Nonsense. It is not a shame to ignore another player. I do it all the time by turning off the chat window during PvP. 99% of the time are the pointers and criticisms just bad. The intentions may be good, but it too often comes from lazy players who only want others to do what they should be doing themselves. Or as they say, "if you want something done right then you need to do it yourself," which is why I never tell anyone during a match how to play it, but I step in and help where help is needed. This is the essence of teamwork in PvP for me, and that I get to kill others in the process is only a nice bonus. I would say it is a shame not everybody is willing to make such a sacrifice, but there are many players who silently give their best even when it is sometimes not good enough.
PS: I meant "younger self" as when you started with the game and not simply young or younger players.
I know that people turn off chat and there is a language barrier often. I try not to "tell" people what to do as much as "suggest", this is usually after the game has developed...never at the start. If someone pvps a fair amount, you can tell what needs to be done (as a team), some don't want to hear it. They would rather just point fingers. I often do what needs to be done and at the cost of a lot of points. I would rather win the match than see myself at the top of the scoreboard but still get a nasty tells from those that don't understand. To these types, I offer pointers.
Comments
Those are the worst.
I also always tell my pugs to fight on points. Of course there are situations where you might want to take the battle out on the field, but diverse strategy is something that belongs to high-end and competitive PVP.
On a normal day, you have to brief these headless chickens on their 50% mounts. So there's two things: Rush to 2 and fight on points. It's also a good measurement whether the match is worth it or not. If people after being instructed still act clueless, I can safely camp out the match and invest my time somewhere else, because it's going to be a loss anyway.
But PVP is a lot bigger than this fighting on point or not thing.
There are multiple areas u can acess to value a player's skill. And fighting on node is more like one of the sub-sub-point within those catagorys...
Again I would urge OP stop trying to educate the PVP community. 90% of the players you run into in PVP are serious PUG that would never improve. Find good players, add them to your friend list, or join a competitive PVP guild. That is what you would need to do if you don't like carrying all those 10k gs scrubs.
I see this all the time as well. I've literally seen 3 guys run off to chase down 1 dude with a sliver of health, what's he going to do other than be useless until he manages to find a heal?
Also, as for the topic of tower contesting - A lot of people focus on getting kills in PvP and ignore the tower mechanics completely. Most of the time when I play I am actively trying to contest stuff and using every dirty trick I can think of, even if I know I am doomed to die (and when I do die, it's always on a tower).
As far as I'm concerned, if I manage to peel off 2-3 players while my teammates manage to finally amble over to #2 and take it, then that's a win. This is particularly easy to do on the hotenow map if you have knockbacks, because you can fling derp-heads off the platform. I met a really good GF the other day who was using this tactic and it was hysterical to watch, even if it was frustrating for me to have to side strafe and put my back to the wall all the bloody time when fighting him. Mad props to someone actually playing correctly...
One moment type "fight on nodes idiots".Second moment "leave perma in node alone".Third moment "kill CWs first!!' (CWs out of nodes or in pillars" .Fourth moment "fight on nodes!!" .Fifth moment"you are all idiots u cannot follow simple and clear instructions.." :P
aaannnnnddddd THAT is why premade.
Jugger Conq GF
....
That's only happening cause you pugs won't back-cap allowing us to stay together, and you have no HP and die in 2 seconds of being focused.
Next time you go back-cap with a good perma, and suddenly at least one of the premade will have to split and face him.
All in all, if you see a premade moving as a 4-5 men team and destroying everything, it's only because you lost 1vs1s very fast everywhere.
Those instructions sound about right. Fight on the nodes to keep them contested if you don't own them. Do not waste time trying to 2v1a perma if it takes you forever to clear it or you can't clear it (leaving someone on a different point to die 1v2) when one person can simply stalemate that tr. Focus CWs first because they are the squishiest and one of the most deadly classes if allowed to free-cast.
Back to the original topic: obviously, it's sometimes advantageous to fight off-point (mainly when intercepting or luring other classes off a point your team owns). I don't think ANYONE here is arguing against that. If someone is yelling at you to fight on a point, I'm pretty sure they aren't yelling at you to fight on an uncontested point you own. Chances are, you're fighting off-point, allowing the enemy to cap. I've never seen someone get yelled at for NOT fighting on a point your team has.
They are back capping you! See how all the experienced PvPers (and Persephone) are telling you to backcap? If you are a pug, you fall for it and you stack on your home cap, leaving the other two nodes vulnerable. If you leave and go back cap them, you will draw the enemy from the other points and they will stack on the back cap like pugs. You then have the opportunity to two cap them.
None of this will help though if you are running 8k GS and rocken frost enchants... soooo....
And about the standing on points thing, it's actually pretty easy. If the node is anything other than solid blue, stand on it. If it's blue PUSH!!!! Don't stand on the solid blue mid cap while I'm on their back 5v1 cause when they wipe me... You're next...
5 incoming - one move off point to lure, this slows the cap time down, meaning the cap you own is gaining points, and the contested node is spooling slowly - more points for you. if you DON't own a node, 1 peel off and stand on one of theirs.
4 incoming - if 3 team, fight on point, if 4 team as above.
3 incoming - if 3 team fight on point, if 4 team, one move off, if 2 team fight on point, focus same target.
2 incoming - if solo fight on point, it's closer to the rest of your team (total team, not nubs hiding out of sight near potions in Rivenscar or on the bridge in Hotenow)
1 incoming - 1v1 on point.
Intro gambits -
1 to home base 4 to middle
1 to home base, 3 to middle, one to their base
5 to middle
4 to middle, 1 to their base
3 OP classes to middle, 2 to their base
2 OP classes+1 support to middle, 1 to your base, one of your OP classes to their base.
You should have established a lead by now and the only reasons to fight on point are listed at top.
RE: people yelling in PvP.
As you can see the opening gambits above are limited, if THESE FAIL, people get frustrated. It's only fair that team mates flame-out when frustrated, otherwise sell-out teams or "fanbois" will just make people quit. It's easy to ignore party chat, and usually leads to yelling in games anyways.
Walk away from your game with a desire to communicate next time and you'll co-ordinate openings in the fireplace, without winging it towards the game-deciding middle base standoff.
ADDED INFO: If your team is losing badly consider this - They are mismatched at their competition rating and they want to sink down a bit to farm glory - 4 games lost moves into a winning streak of 5, awarding more PvP potions.
The fireplace is the ONLY time to quickly talk to everybody.
I play Giggles, and the only apologies I'll make about my conduct in lose-team pvp matches is this: The brain of a player can assess the teams performance, if they are mouthing off they are trying to lead too late, I've done this, expecting a smooth game. I've noticed teams that "want to lose" and teams that have 4 strategies running in one team with no compromise.
Each of us have a game-style we choose to operate, whether it's Curb-stomp rushes, opening retreats (more than 3 on home base), 5-middle standoffs.
NW is NOT a spreadsheet game, if it gets too disrespectful TOO quickly, just PM saying "I'm not playing to read this %%%%" and ignore, unless you want to identify yourself for "advertising" reasons.
They only last 20mins at the VERY MOST, do NOT let one team wreck your train of thought, let alone decide on the others forever ever ever ever.
(My ignore list is only slightly longer than my friends list)
WTF just happened?
This ^
The only time you will see group gangbanging from a premade is when the opposite team is horrible. Now if you are in a pug (all i do is pug so I know this from experience) You are already at a huge disadvantage because of coms and more than likely there is going to be a major gear desparity. Your only real hope of making points is to try and fight like they fight each other, and that is point holders/contesters smart and not so selfish and rovers that are aware of where to be.
To be honest, the chances of beating a good premade are slim in a pug. But you do not have to lose 1000-3.
Signs you are in a bad pug.
1. When the gate drops 2 or more run to home to cap. These are either inexperienced players , or they lose so often that they just want to get that initial 300 for a better chance of making a few glory. This leaves you basically dead at 2, and after the initial engagement the enemy will have thier home and 2 ticking.
2. Home pride. the enemy will send a point holder to your home. for some reason people think it is more important to rid home of that pesky hr, or tr. They will bunch up there and allow the other points to tick while they try (most times successfully) to kill the point holder. the enemy rovers make it to your home, and now that is where they stay, as your team keeps running back there from spawn.
3. Everyone runs to 2 and they lose the initial engagement. So what we have here is a more skilled/geared team as enemies. People die and run back to two. since people die at intervels, the enemy team releases thier point holders to 1 and 3 , as your team continues to run back to two 1 or 2 at a time, and continually get decimated by the 3 rovers from the enemy team. Meanwhile 1 and 3 tick away.
4. Your team has players that only want to top the kill list. If this happens to you, you are pretty much screwed. Sorry.
5. you kill an enemy on a node, and then 2 or 3 of your team show up and sit there on thier mounts to get the 300 points, meanwhile the enemy is taking the other two nodes, or they are ticking away.
There are many more cycles of failure, but these are the ones i see most. They are also mistakes I made early on in my learning process.
The whole pug but me running to home is what I see most often. The next most often are people just running everywhere randomly. Like wtf is that guy doing standing by himself on the opposite side of the map near the bridge? Like just standing there. Or running back and forth across the bridge. The gwf who caps home node and always try to rove just fing kills me. It leaves my hr to try and fill the point holder gap.
Most frustrating is being on a team and THE ONLY NODES EVER CAPED ARE THE ONES I AM ON. I HATE THAT. An HR. A rover. FFS I kill off the tr on home node while 2 is contested, cap it, head to enemy node, contest it until a single enemy player comes to fight, kill him, cap that, and by then both 2 and home node are red again. So I go to two where three of the enemy team are and none of mine, and see home and enemy node slowly turning red. Wtf. It REALLY pisses me off when I can pull 3 of the 5 of the enemy team all the way to their own node, keep them all busy for a good 2 minutes, and when I finally go down I see that the other nodes are still red. Its like, comeon, I just held most of the other team there and you guys couldnt even cap a single fing node in that time????
Jugger Conq GF
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Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
It's just something you need to know before queuing up. If you, like me, just want to play a PVP here and there for the daily, it's best not to bother and camp/leave and switch chars. I try to brief pugs, but if it doesn't help the match simply isn't worth it. That way I'm getting three or four wins in per event hour and don't feel like I'm wasting time. If I know basic strategy, I want matchmaking to pair me with teammates that also do. Not capable? See you in 30 minutes.
It's not just younger players, unfortunately. It's a shame that only a few can handle taking pointers or constructive criticism.
PS: I meant "younger self" as when you started with the game and not simply young or younger players.
I know that people turn off chat and there is a language barrier often. I try not to "tell" people what to do as much as "suggest", this is usually after the game has developed...never at the start. If someone pvps a fair amount, you can tell what needs to be done (as a team), some don't want to hear it. They would rather just point fingers. I often do what needs to be done and at the cost of a lot of points. I would rather win the match than see myself at the top of the scoreboard but still get a nasty tells from those that don't understand. To these types, I offer pointers.