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Weekly Community Poll #7

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    orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I voted bosses. Creating interesting bosses is something I've always wanted to do.

    Rewards are not really something a do foundry quests for (though don't get be wrong, I'd love it get some, it's just not my priority).

    Quest story trees probably wouldn't work well in campaigns, though if I could have later quests effected by choices made in earlier ones that would be pretty nice.
    Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
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    maegmaagmaegmaag Member Posts: 332 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That's because the poll asks what can be done to make it more enjoyable to play Foundry content. Not everyone thinks tanglible rewards are the enjoyable part of gameplay, some are more interested in challenges, player interaction and storylines and thus think it would be more enjoyable if the game let them focus on those areas.

    While I do think improved rewards are a necessity to make Foundry content worthwhile, I do not believe it would make the content more enjoyable.

    nice reading comprehension (if thats the right eng term/expression); not to mention the foundry rewards - will barely hit the "desired" meta (goal,value) (UGC vs DD/PVP wise); maybe something like http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?650581-Suggestion-to-addon-for-reward-system
    dAuGVxU.png
    A bit nosy NW-DKG7E99X6
    "Hardcore" exploration journey and dungeon crawl. Read its description prior to trying it.
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    tittlemcgrittletittlemcgrittle Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Oh man, can we pick two? I would love to see better boss mechanics and increased rewards. Some of the most amazing things have been made through modding, and essentially this is the first MMO that's allowed some form of modding in it. Granted there will always be bad with the good. But that can easily be weeded out.
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    degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What's the Foundry?
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    Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
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    orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What's the Foundry?

    It's a really cool tool that allows players to make quests for this game.

    To access the quest creator you have to press that big button at the bottom of the character creation page that says "The Foundry" in big letters. To play someone's quest, press L and click "catalog".
    Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
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    degraafinationdegraafination Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It's a really cool tool that allows players to make quests for this game.

    To access the quest creator you have to press that big button at the bottom of the character creation page that says "The Foundry" in big letters. To play someone's quest, press L and click "catalog".

    Well, my comment was a joke, actually.
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    orangefireeorangefiree Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,148 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Well, my comment was a joke, actually.

    Oh, ok. I wondered how you missed the big button on the bottom of the character select screen.
    Neverwinter players are stubborn things....until you strip them down to bone. (Cursed players, my flowers, MINE!) Oh how I plotted their demise.
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    psyb3rtr011psyb3rtr011 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That's because the poll asks what can be done to make it more enjoyable to play Foundry content. Not everyone thinks tanglible rewards are the enjoyable part of gameplay, some are more interested in challenges, player interaction and storylines and thus think it would be more enjoyable if the game let them focus on those areas.

    While I do think improved rewards are a necessity to make Foundry content worthwhile, I do not believe it would make the content more enjoyable.

    ^^^^What he said!^^^^
    Psyb3rTr011
    AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
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    psyb3rtr011psyb3rtr011 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    abaddon523 wrote: »
    Loot is the entire key to improving the foundry. It's a drum I've been banging for a while. People will go pummel the Pirate King for the 200th time despite no storyline, scenery they've seen 200 times, and no challenge solely for the loot. Most of them would probably rather spend that time on new, interesting, good-quality player created dungeons if the rewards were in the same zip code as dungeon delves.

    Greed does not equal enjoyment. (Time to complete and ease of completion are also factors in player greed)

    How many of those players who mine the Pirate King for the 200th time, would switch to a Foundry mission, and play new ones every time, if the end reward was close to something like Pirate King.

    What I would love to see, is a metric, where Foundry missions gave decent loot the first time through, and with each subsequent running of the same dungeon, the odds decrease. It would be best, if that loot, was Foundry specific.

    Better yet, I would love to see a Foundry Boon system, where you get Boons for completing a number of different "Daily Foundry Eligible" missions.

    Complete 10 Eligible Daily Foundry adventures, and get the first one. The second one comes at 30, the third at 60, the fourth at 100 and the 5th at 150.
    Psyb3rTr011
    AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
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    tittlemcgrittletittlemcgrittle Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ok so here's the thing, you increase the rewards for foundry, and more people start to run them. More people start to run foundry the more interest there is in improving foundry. The more interest in improving foundry the more likely the devs will focus on improving the foundry and adding features.
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    psyb3rtr011psyb3rtr011 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ok so here's the thing, you increase the rewards for foundry, and more people start to run them. More people start to run foundry the more interest there is in improving foundry. The more interest in improving foundry the more likely the devs will focus on improving the foundry and adding features.

    Agreed, but that was not the question. The question was "What Foundry feature/improvement would most make foundry content more enjoyable?"

    As I said before, if rewards are what make something enjoyable, then you are doing it for the wrong reason.
    Psyb3rTr011
    AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
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    psychaos999psychaos999 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    It could be a "Foundry Campaign" like the sharandar campaign or the dread ring one.
    Every time you complete a foundry you earn some kind of token. With that you can buy a new armour set. We could have also a boons progression like in other campaign.
    Of course, eligible foundries would be choosen by cryptic between the best ranked. They could also make adjustment to the difficoltà level as they see fit.

    Sorry for my bad english
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    psychaos999psychaos999 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    And of course an update to the Foundry would be necessary, in order to permit the creation of new mobs, bosses and mechanics.
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    angryspriteangrysprite Member Posts: 4,982 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Ok so here's the thing, you increase the rewards for foundry, and more people start to run them. More people start to run foundry the more interest there is in improving foundry. The more interest in improving foundry the more likely the devs will focus on improving the foundry and adding features.

    I've been shouting this very idea, for these very reasons for a year.
    (And three additional years before that over at STO)

    Yes.
    Really.
    Needless to say: I concur with this statement.
    Agreed, but that was not the question. The question was "What Foundry feature/improvement would most make foundry content more enjoyable?"

    As I said before, if rewards are what make something enjoyable, then you are doing it for the wrong reason.

    A literal answer to the question isn't in the poll choices: reject all <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> quests. THAT will make Foundry quests more enjoyable. But it's a trick question because "enjoyable" is a highly subjective (and sometimes volatile) term.

    As for the argument that "reward to make something enjoyable is doing it for the wrong reason" is misnomer. The Foundry needs a lot of work, both by those Authors creating them and the Devs in fixing it mechanically. Hence to make Foundry "more enjoyable" is not a hard and fast solution. Rather it is a journey that must be started somewhere. But *starting* with better rewards, more people might play them, the more people who play them... well, I refer to the first quote above.

    There is no single solution. "Better rewards" is only the first, easiest step in the process.
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    yarknarfyarknarf Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    More diverse bosses and story trees.

    The problem I have with the foundry is, all to often when I try a new foundry, you spend 10% of the time in boring combat and 90% finding the item or NCP choice to open the door or whatever to proceed.

    I think this is because the authors have an idea in mind but not the tools to express it and horn rim their quest, like a square peg in a round hole, into the existing system and end up with something awkward.

    Improve the creation tools.

    Now...as others have stated maybe improving rewards is the best way to do that.

    Make foundry popular, invent some profit item for the store, see profit, improve foundry with new tools, make profit.
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    khimera906khimera906 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Well, I want better rewards, of course. It's not just the rewards, though. It's the atmosphere of the whole thing, the story behind it and having bosses that feel like bosses. These are the things that make the rewards even more rewarding.
    I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
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    gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I said rewards. But I don't want more, I want different.

    The problem with the current rewards is not that they are too small but that the currend rewards encourage the wrong behavior. People will do what the reward guides them to do. right now that is farm easy kills and run as few missions as possible as close to 15 minutes per run to get the daily and everything that doesnt fit into one of those two models is ignored. We are also punished for reading the mission text as that wastes time we could be spending speeding through our four missions.

    What is requred of the reward system for me as a player to enjoy all parts of the Foundry equally:
    1. a reward for beta testing
    2. balanced rewards for running a 15 minute mission and a 3 hour epic mission
    3. a way to identify the best NEW content in the mission search
    4. a way to ignore the worst OBSOLETE content in the mission search

    So, looking at the current system, I first recommend removing the "daily foundry" mission from rhix altogether. That is horrible, it encourages entirely the wrong behavior, and there's really no good way to fix it. Instead, borrow a great idea from STO and SCA and give the first "featured" mission you play in a day with a given character (not account) a big Astral Diamond bonus reward. So I can run just one in a day and get my "daily" bonus if it's a big mission.

    Second, replace the fixed 1k/mission which rewards players for running missions that are 15-16 minutes long and punishes us for playing everything else. It also reards high damage characters and punishes clerics since damage is the decider on how much you earn per hour currently. Instead, use a sliding scale that gives roughly 250 astrals per 15 minutes of play time with NO F$%&*NG minimum but harshly reduced rewards below 10 minutes. If a mission takes an average of 8 minutes to finish, give us say 20 astrals. Don't punish the writer for having misjudged how fast top-end builds can speed a mission and don't punish the clcerics for taking too long. Toss a token amount so wedon't feel like we wasted the effort and insteas REWARD US FOR AT LEAST TRYING THE MISSION ONCE.

    This will reward me for experimenting a lot more with missions that I'd otherwise ignore. Which means I'll do it more often.

    Next, make any mission that isn't featured and hasn't been updated or republished in the last 3 months move to an "archived" tab where it doesn't appear in any search except one specifically for that mission or for older missions within the archive tab. This will rotate out broken missions after majot foundry patches, and keep the search results to relevant missions with active authors. If I can find the new stuff, then I will play it. If I keep getting broken missiosn taht were published during the open beta, I tend to give up. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this behavior.

    Speaking of beta missions, toss a chance for a unique reward that you can't get in the regular missions. Instead of astrals, how about some seals that we can trade in to buy green-quality companions. Say the ones from past promotions that you've already done all the development work on making? If not something that awesome, then how about just regular seals, 1 (or 2 if the mission takes over 45 minutes) would be nice.

    Finally, borrow another idea from STO which you tried once only and then abandoned: Weekly blog one foundry mission and set it aside in the first tab for the "best" missions. Make these the ones that give the big once per day award.

    To review what this reward system encourages:
    I get something special for testing beta content, so I'll try the ones that don't qualify for astrals
    I get something big the first approved mission each day, so I will keep logging in regularly
    I get scaled rewards based on the time to complete, so I will play all missions not just 15-16 minute ones,and I don't feel punished for reading the story text
    I get scaled rewards so I can use any character, not just my highest damage speedy ones
    I can find new missions to play without a fear of wasting time with a broken obsolete mission
    I get regular help finding the best of the bunch from the Devs (also a huge reward for the authors which they totally deserve)

    Seems like that fixes almost all of the player behaviors.

    If you really want to add an extra layer of reward that encourages the right behavior, replace Rhix's daily with a wrapper mission for one beta, one featured and one normal mission that gives a new seal/currency. Make 2-3 new fashion sets that we can earn with the seals. If this gets any traction, then please, for the love of Sune, stop whichever insane dev is obsessed with slicing women's dresses into four pieces. GAH!

    EDIT: I did not pick bosses for one reason: As shown in this thread, the changes to bosses the players want are dynamic and varied and difficult to code. In all three cryptic games, the developers have consistently shown they only are interested in giving us "big sacks of hit points with attacks that can 1-shot over half the casual players". I despise those sorts of boss fights. If any change to the bosses comes with "MOARRRR HP" then please, count me as voting against it. I would prefer all bosses in the game had half as many HP and new mechanics that meant they didn't need any adds to come in at all. So that's why I voted against it: Bitter cynicism at the lack of ability to grant this one.

    Also, @psyb3rtr011, I disagree: doing it "for rewards" is not the wrong reason. Think of Maslow's Heirarchy of Needs (or learn about it if you've never heard of it). Those people at the bottom are not wrong or worse than those at the top. They have different motives. You play the game you want, let others play it the way they want, and don't try to take the moral high ground, you lose it the moment you say someone is "playing wrong". Afterall you're doing it for the reward too. It's just that your reward is internal instead of monetary. It's still a reward.
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    edsenxedsenx Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Better rewards is the first step, without any doubt. You could implement Foundry Coins, and a Foundry Vendor in Protector´s enclave, like trade of blades is for pvp. It would be a fair way to get a reward from foundries, and if they are good enough you can monetize the thing putting some foundry related items for sell in the zen store.

    The second step would be promoting the 5-man content of it. It would be uber cool to replace the CTAs with featured Foundry events. Every X time you could choose the best skirmish-alike foundries, and give CTA-alike rewards, or choose a proper dungeon-alike one and feature it for better rewards.

    And related to that comes the third thing: improving the foundry tool to make it more versatile and with better boss and gameplay mechanics. You know the power of a community creating content for a game. You have sseen it in many successful games in the last years, and even in the original neverwinter. Give the foundry tool more power and the community will make that part of the game for you.

    Obviously, that is a lot of job, but you could also get some profit from it. Just extend the model that makes profitable the pve-pvp part of the game, and extend it to the foundry.
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    bucklittlebucklittle Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Some of the best content I have played has been in foundry. It's my belief that the rewards aren't high enough. When I log on I prioritize things like boon dailies and rhix dailies, then dungeon delves. Foundry are only ever done if the lord neverember foundry quest is available (lord+rhix=12k AD). I only ever do short foundry quest because spending my time doing anything else will net zero rewards. Currently the only worth in currency/items the foundry provides is rank 4 enchantments from mob drops and dailies, which is only worth the time is lord neverember is providing his 8k RAD quest.

    There isn't any problem with foundry providing the best rewards, or close to the best rewards in the game. I don't think people would complain if the fastest way to farm RAD would be to do new foundry quests.

    -Rewards for foundry needs to be significantly increased.
    -System needs to balance length of foundry mission against these rewards.
    -Reward AD for foundry during the Foundry Event.
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    reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Improved rewards would be nice.The foundry campaign is a very nice idea too, with boons and everything.
    There should be a way to prevent people from only farming easy ones though.
    Maybe longer foundry quests could give better rewards or something like that.
    By the way, thanks a LOT for creating this topic. I think foundry should be one of the most treasured parts of the game, and for now that's not happening.
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    kolevrakolevra Member Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I would have liked to see "PvP Foundry Maps" as an option for this vote.
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    reiwulfreiwulf Member Posts: 2,687 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kolevra wrote: »
    I would have liked to see "PvP Foundry Maps" as an option for this vote.
    Me too.
    to me a great idea is to allow more people into a foundry quest. To have a certain way to make a RP only quest that can be accesed anytime, and doesn't create different instances everytime someone enters it, and more people can be inside them.
    2e2qwj6.jpg
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    tittlemcgrittletittlemcgrittle Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    kolevra wrote: »
    I would have liked to see "PvP Foundry Maps" as an option for this vote.

    People have been asking for this idea since beta; if anything I think this could start to lessen the gap between the PVP/PVE community and give them both a common goal of making some of the most interesting area's in the game.
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    sylvialynnsylvialynn Member Posts: 160 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I would like both PvP and open public foundries. The open ones could be used for both guild bases and would be a major boon to the RP community and keep them around (meaning more profits as they tend to buy cosmetic items to match their character styles).
    Those two along side better rewards would make the foundry more appealing then focus can be done on branching story lines and bosses with interesting mechanics.
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    tinukedatinukeda Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Shame there was no "all of the above" option. Every single one of those options would be solid improvements for the Foundry.
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    gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    tinukeda wrote: »
    Shame there was no "all of the above" option. Every single one of those options would be solid improvements for the Foundry.

    Check Post #2. There's no "all of the above" option because that answer is useless for the devs. Which one matters to you MOST?
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    ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited April 2014
    People have been asking for this idea since beta; if anything I think this could start to lessen the gap between the PVP/PVE community and give them both a common goal of making some of the most interesting area's in the game.

    Slight correction, the first time this was ever brought up on the forums was by a developer asking how the players felt about such a feature.

    So the only reason we don't have it yet is likely a matter of figuring out when to devote resources to that feature rather than if they should. It is absolutely not because they do not want to implement such a feature.

    This is why I do not put "all of the above" options in these polls. Every one of these polls has been comprised of common suggestions (such as this thread) or aspects I know myself and my friends can debate and reconsider all day long such as what location you would most like to visit...

    Imagine a thousand voices all pulling you in different directions. I won't say none of the voices have bad ideas but many of the ideas are great ideas but the fact of the matter is there are only so many hours in a day and it is impossible to work on every idea all at once so they have to decide which features are most deserving of the time they have.
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    mittensofdoommittensofdoom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 247 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    As a foundry creator myself I would love to see better bosses. Right now I can only choose between things like adventurers, shock troop devil, plague maws and ogres and stack mobs on top to make a challenge.

    I would also like to see more ways to branch out on a story. I like making story driven foundrys so more options there would be nice.

    Better rewards would be really nice. Currently my foundrys are sitting in 'for review' hell so if better rewards were offered maybe people would actually play them.

    NWS-DMU2QVSLY
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    delarediadelaredia Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    None of the above. I'd want a Neverwinter Nights style DM client (though much more limited; no loot tossing, restrict number of adds a DM can drop by time played, etc). But it would allow for some pretty cool content.

    Want challenging bosses? The DM can play the end boss and make full use of its powers.

    Want varied quest paths? The DM can port the party to different endings.

    Want scaled difficulty? The DM can drop adds here and there and possess one of them.

    Of course, it would require a whole lot of infrastructure (rating systems, queues, opt outs, disable injuries, zone templates, etc), but there are still people logging in to NWN1 servers to play with a live DM, 12 years later.
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