Asking for help ! From Moderation.

schweifer1982 · April 2014

To akromatik and to all moderators .

I ask to make an official thread to discuss the current PVE dungeon desing need to be improve , so that any new players and old player can have fun .

The current dungeon desing outgrowed by some players soo much they can even solo or make it in 10 -15 min "with 4-5 CW".
Or the worst part new players can even do it in blue stuff to reach T1 gear they are forced to make pvp (even if they dont want it this is only viable option left for them).

I saw some realy good ideas to separate chain heavy ligth and rob classes. To get advantage ower loot or bosses for each class some uniq desing .So they no more need to stack 5 CW and to talk about nerfs.

I ask because i am not the rigth man for job, but i feel to stand up and ask for help agan.
Also i know i can solo many bosses with my TR perma and my GWF and my CW. So this will effect me only negative but i feel this must be done .
So pls make a new official thread to discuss what devs can do about it also if its not to much sometimes devs can join in for a short message too. To see new ideas "wise man say 5 ppl in one room cant see a hidden thing but somone new came in and find it on 1 sec ".

Thnx for help

goldheart · April 2014

The dungeons must have different ways that lead to boss, and must have doors that can be opened from specific class. Depend of classes in the party they will go to the boss.
This will oblige the party to have 5 people if they want to finish the dungeon. And then we will have true D&D game.

ambisinisterr · April 2014

Believe it or not it is far better coming from the players than from the community team.

kattefjaes · April 2014

goldheart wrote: »

The dungeons must have different ways that lead to boss, and must have doors that can be opened from specific class. Depend of classes in the party they will go to the boss.
This will oblige the party to have 5 people if they want to finish the dungeon. And then we will have true D&D game.

You do know that there's already more than five classes in the game, right?

goldheart · April 2014

kattefjaes wrote: »

You do know that there's already more than five classes in the game, right?

Yes because that I said up that the dungeon must have different ways to the end. With 5 ppl party we will need only one way and just 5 different classes. With 5 ppl party and 6 classes we will need few different ways to the end and depend from the classes they will open the gate that they can.
Other mode can be the gates to be generated by classes that join or combinations of that but this . This will make the dungeon to be dynamic. And will be not just kill/farm.

Unknown · April 2014

This content has been removed.

lewstelamon01 · April 2014

Not going to close this thread, as another mod has already been here, but please, PLEASE address all targeted concerns (such as threads to staff, mods, and devs) via the PM system.

kattefjaes · April 2014

goldheart wrote: »

Yes because that I said up that the dungeon must have different ways to the end. With 5 ppl party we will need only one way and just 5 different classes. With 5 ppl party and 6 classes we will need few different ways to the end and depend from the classes they will open the gate that they can.
Other mode can be the gates to be generated by classes that join or combinations of that but this . This will make the dungeon to be dynamic. And will be not just kill/farm.

It won't "make the dungeon to be dynamic", it will break the queue still further. Class distribution would like a word with you. It's also a really daft and overly complex idea, for a game that can't even make an LFG queue work. I'd suggest thinking things though a bit before posting.

goldheart · April 2014

No this will broke only 'elithish' parties created from guilds/friends, and is not hard to tell on Queue to generate gates depend of party.

beckylunatic · April 2014

And what of guild runs where you're just trying to run something for everyone who needs gear, regardless of class, and you're stacking classes because that happens to be who needs to go? Because we do that, and we don't generally have the population to form multiple Delve groups, and if we're taking inexperienced people then the runs are liable to take longer so it's not like we can run it and then run it again for someone else.

And yes, it would be complicated to "generate gates depend of party", in a game where dungeon progression can be broken by a single door that won't open properly. Consider that you're looking at generating a dungeon dynamically at the time a party queues in. If someone drops from that party and is replaced with a player of a different class, whoops, broken dungeon.

Anyway, people who just (try to) use the queue system to find a dungeon group are placed into what the game considers balanced parties.

So yeah, you're trying to implement a "solution" that is punitive to all players regardless of their reasons for forming the parties they do.

pitshade · April 2014

In 1st Ed AD&D, the thief class was mostly worthless except for that they could find/remove traps and open locks. Most of the time, people who played thieves did so because they wanted to. Most of the time, DMs added traps and locks to dungeons to give the thieves something to do. No thief in the group = fewer traps and locks would either have keys to find or could be bashed or knocked open. Unsurprisingly, this could often lead to annoyance with the person who chose to play a thief... I enjoy playing my TR and am happy to have found some good groups who accept my character because (hopefully) I'm meeting their expectations. I would retire the character if I thought she was only going in groups because the dungeon design require a rogue to click something in a certain spot.

Anyway, all of the classes are viable in dungeons. It just that they aren't all optimal. If changes were done to the existing content, it needs to be the addition of fights where a tank and/or single target damage would be beneficial - but not required, the key should be to make more party compositions desirable so that there isn't a clear 'best' to aim for. If you go without a tank, some fights might get pretty rough. If you choose not to have a striker, those fights will take longer.

tornnomar · April 2014

There is generally alot of frustration in the community regarding current dungeon design, specifically the fact that four of the six classes are not even needed to clear ANY of the content.

In addition to dungeon design, the current one hour time limit for a DD is ridiculous and has always been so. The running of dungeons should have never been an Event. The design of some of the dungeons and this time restriction is what bred the whole Speed Run nonsense.

The Dungeon key concept being introduced will hopefully curb this behavior somewhat as players will be able to run dungeons at their leisure. There is no time limit as the key guarantees you the chest. Perhaps you'll even be able to purchase additional keys to run other dungeons with from the wondrous bazaar. They most likely be bound so you won't see 'em on the AH.
They may rarely show up in skill nodes, or as a reward for skirmishes, or in an attempt to garner foundry play, they may even have a chance to be the reward for completing a foundry quest!
There is so much they can do with these keys, we'll just have to wait and see.

In the meantime, run with friends, guildmates, and take advantage of the Legit Community.

akromatik · April 2014

Hi everyone.

I'd like to begin by describing what I feel when I see a post like this. Some might feel annoyed or upset, but not me. When I see a post like this, I'm moved. This might sound odd, but let me explain...

The fact that players are writing these kinds of threads means that they care so much about the state of Neverwinter that they are willing to take the time to express themselves and share their thoughts... all the while knowing that they are opening themselves up to critique.

I admire this courage.

Now, to the matter at hand: the state of dungeons and the queue system in Neverwinter. I can guarantee you that the devs want what's best for the game and are working every day to make Neverwinter great. While it may be difficult to see the scope of their vision at times, I can assure you that they want Neverwinter to succeed as much as anyone else.

So, while I applaud your passion for Neverwinter and honesty, I also ask that you put your trust in us to make the Neverwinter experience the best it can possibly be.

diogene0 · April 2014

akromatik wrote: »

Now, to the matter at hand: the state of dungeons and the queue system in Neverwinter. I can guarantee you that the devs want what's best for the game and are working every day to make Neverwinter great. While it may be difficult to see the scope of their vision at times, I can assure you that they want Neverwinter to succeed as much as anyone else.

So, while I applaud your passion for Neverwinter and honesty, I also ask that you put your trust in us to make the Neverwinter experience the best it can possibly be.

A vision that isn't shared can't be seen. You guys should consider being more transparent about plans and stuff like that. Sure it may change or it could fail, but it's better than waiting for 6 months for something people here consider urgent or small fixes.

"We are aware of the issue" is probably the most bland and disappointing comment that may be done.

schweifer1982 · April 2014

goldheart wrote: »

Yes because that I said up that the dungeon must have different ways to the end. With 5 ppl party we will need only one way and just 5 different classes. With 5 ppl party and 6 classes we will need few different ways to the end and depend from the classes they will open the gate that they can.
Other mode can be the gates to be generated by classes that join or combinations of that but this . This will make the dungeon to be dynamic. And will be not just kill/farm.

Pleas read before you post :
I saw some realy good ideas to separate chain heavy ligth and rob classes. To get advantage ower loot or bosses for each class some uniq desing .So they no more need to stack 5 CW and to talk about nerfs.

schweifer1982 · April 2014

akromatik wrote: »

Hi everyone.

I'd like to begin by describing what I feel when I see a post like this. Some might feel annoyed or upset, but not me. When I see a post like this, I'm moved. This might sound odd, but let me explain...

The fact that players are writing these kinds of threads means that they care so much about the state of Neverwinter that they are willing to take the time to express themselves and share their thoughts... all the while knowing that they are opening themselves up to critique.

I admire this courage.

Now, to the matter at hand: the state of dungeons and the queue system in Neverwinter. I can guarantee you that the devs want what's best for the game and are working every day to make Neverwinter great. While it may be difficult to see the scope of their vision at times, I can assure you that they want Neverwinter to succeed as much as anyone else.

So, while I applaud your passion for Neverwinter and honesty, I also ask that you put your trust in us to make the Neverwinter experience the best it can possibly be.

*Some might feel annoyed or upset, but not me. When I see a post like this, I'm moved. This might sound odd, but let me explain... I think we dont feel this way just want to help the game to be better .

*Now, to the matter at hand: the state of dungeons and the queue system in Neverwinter. I can guarantee you that the devs want what's best for the game and are working every day to make Neverwinter great. While it may be difficult to see the scope of their vision at times, I can assure you that they want Neverwinter to succeed as much as anyone else.
I can see devs making other type of dungeons "like VT MC SP and the new IWD Sk KR" but still its not what i wanted to point .
We need more roles for classes so thet they needed not just ignored .example: Cuz i want to play with my class GF but i know i can finish the dungeon faster and more smoother with my CW and dont want to slow my friends down .We all have limited time to play. But if you cant play you favorit char then whats the point where is the fun and the game ? Ofc i can ask my friends hey guys can i come with my GF? they will say ofc but after half hour in dung i feel i am bad cant add my self or somthing usefull in this run they maybe better if i was not here.

*So, while I applaud your passion for Neverwinter and honesty, I also ask that you put your trust in us to make the Neverwinter experience the best it can possibly be. This is what i asked "and i asked not demad it " to help us and mybe devs vision and our vision is the same or they see somthing what they like and can be added to the game .

I am sorry if you misunderstud me . But i realy wanted to help .
Aslo i think i cant change anything by my self ,ether i dont want to make some revolution ,just want to discuss .

chaoscourtesan · April 2014

I don't think trying to force party composition is a good idea, the queues already suffer from trying to create diversity, and not having the players queued (of the class-mix) needed to succeed at it.

However, I do think a viable idea might be some type of bonus available only with a balanced party, whether its a SLIGHTLY increased drop rate, or just maybe unlocks an area that gives a chance to win something extra.. (Nothing big, just something to create an incentive to run a balanced party, because as the dungeons are set up now, a balanced party slows progress.. where the opposite should be true.) Maybe having a balanced party could allow you to skip some small section of the dungeon, just to make up the time lost by not having the all DPS team.

schweifer1982 · April 2014

chaoscourtesan wrote: »

I don't think trying to force party composition is a good idea, the queues already suffer from trying to create diversity, and not having the players queued (of the class-mix) needed to succeed at it.

However, I do think a viable idea might be some type of bonus available only with a balanced party, whether its a SLIGHTLY increased drop rate, or just maybe unlocks an area that gives a chance to win something extra.. (Nothing big, just something to create an incentive to run a balanced party, because as the dungeons are set up now, a balanced party slows progress.. where the opposite should be true.) Maybe having a balanced party could allow you to skip some small section of the dungeon, just to make up the time lost by not having the all DPS team.

Look mybe i am not clear enugh nobody want to force anything. Righ now we are the one how forced to play CW.

chaoscourtesan · April 2014

My post was not directed to you, Schweifer. It was in response to the flow of the entire thread. I'll stay out of it.

alvadimarco · April 2014

A recurring problem is that when game devs say "we're going to do this" or "we want to do that" or "this is how we see [that] behaving under ideal circumstances", the community of that game tends to react poorly. Some will assume that the devs have made promises that this or that will happen at the very next patch and spend the next six months being bitter about it when the statements would realistically take a year to be delivered upon. Others will erupt into vehement protest and very near rioting, ultimately getting themselves banned or staying just this side of being banned and remaining a complete nuisance the whole time. There are also legal things to consider, as well as issues of keeping things hidden from your competitors.

It's not really surprising, in the end, that Cryptic is so quiet about pretty much everything.

psyb3rtr011 · April 2014

pitshade wrote: »

In 1st Ed AD&D, the thief class was mostly worthless except for that they could find/remove traps and open locks. Most of the time, people who played thieves did so because they wanted to. Most of the time, DMs added traps and locks to dungeons to give the thieves something to do. No thief in the group = fewer traps and locks would either have keys to find or could be bashed or knocked open. Unsurprisingly, this could often lead to annoyance with the person who chose to play a thief... I enjoy playing my TR and am happy to have found some good groups who accept my character because (hopefully) I'm meeting their expectations. I would retire the character if I thought she was only going in groups because the dungeon design require a rogue to click something in a certain spot.

Anyway, all of the classes are viable in dungeons. It just that they aren't all optimal. If changes were done to the existing content, it needs to be the addition of fights where a tank and/or single target damage would be beneficial - but not required, the key should be to make more party compositions desirable so that there isn't a clear 'best' to aim for. If you go without a tank, some fights might get pretty rough. If you choose not to have a striker, those fights will take longer.

Wow, I have been playing since before AD&D 1st Edition, and I disagree completely. The Thief's had Climbing Wall, Move Silently and Hide in Shadows in addition to Find/Remove Traps and Open Locks, that made them excellent and necessary members of the party. Their Pick Pockets ability wasn't something to sneeze at either.

Of course, all of these, required a Good DM, to make things where each class had a need during the adventure.

Finally, their Backstab was their strong suit, especially when combined with their other skills. Sneak into position, while by passing traps, locks and guards, and then, strike when the opportunity presented itself. Preferably when the other members of the party are engaged with the Boss and his minions, and you will not get swarmed by all of them when you strike.

oicidraz · April 2014

Here are my thoughts:

1- The problem I see is that dungeons can be done pretty easy... you don't need a DC for heal cause there is Life Steal, you don't need a good Tanker to survive a Boss cause they don't hit so hard (or it's not so hard to dodge, actually the adds are more annoying than the boss), HR is not needed cause CW have better DPS (most of the times) and better CC (impossible to compete) and finaly TR is not needed cause the only thing you find in dungeons are a lot of mobs (not tough single targets)...

2- Here is another topic with nice ideas to put more variety in the dungeons content: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?650341-Suggestion-Seals-in-some-Dungeon-chests.

3- Why are epic dungeons exactly equal to normal dungeons?, I found it poor in oiriginality and pretty boring do the same dungeons you’ve done in your path to lvl 60, but only with a multiplier in the HP/Damage of the foes, I would like to see more differences between Epic Dungeons and Normal ones…

schweifer1982 · April 2014

No offens agans PWE & Cryptic. But i came here after i saw this vid and i was soo glad to have somthig better then DDO so i answer the call. BUT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Uzka-2Mz8
This game was made From Dungeon Dragon Fans for Dungeon Dragon Fans.

Currently This game was made from PVP Fans For PVP fans.

Suggestion to remove the vid. And change it to somthing else cuz curretly this is not true .
All pve change come from pvp and the pve fun is realy ower rigth now.

stracer01 · April 2014

schweifer1982 wrote: »

No offens agans PWE & Cryptic. But i came here after i saw this vid and i was soo glad to have somthig better then DDO so i answer the call. BUT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Uzka-2Mz8
This game was made From Dungeon Dragon Fans for Dungeon Dragon Fans.

Currently This game was made from PVP Fans For PVP fans.

Suggestion to remove the vid. And change it to somthing else cuz curretly this is not true .
All pve change come from pvp and the pve fun is realy ower rigth now.

I came here for the same reason .
Sadly now nothing left from the great PVE wat was before i only log in to do daly pvp and to craft AD.
I am a bit lost with my Exe .TR also not good in pvp cuz pvp favor the Full HP stacked 80% ap Gain Perma TR hitting the win button.

Asking for help ! From Moderation.

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