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Exectioner vs Scoundrel PVP sets
dragmosh
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
So, I've read in most of the threads here that since the PVP patch, the scoundrel set is better than the Executioner set, because of Arm Pen. The basic logic of the argument is that since crit damage in PVP is reduced by 10%, Arm pen is more effective.
My question is, is this true for an Executioner rogue? Executioner rogues get 30% increased damage every hit after a crit, so doesn't that simply raise their crit damage by 30%. Assuming no vorpal, with base crit damage = 75%, this would yield (75%-10% + 30%) = 95%. Is the reason arm penetration is better because this number is less than 100%?
Furthermore, would you argue this even for a rogue with a vorpal, yielding 145% crit damage?
Finally, would you argue this even if a rogue was already pushing 15% resistance ignored from arm pen?
I'm not asking this from a purely theoretical point of view. I'm probably going to be able to move up to the profound gear in the next week or so, and I'm torn between the two sets. Arm pen and Deflection are both things I need, but at the same time, I'd like more crit chance and recovery.
Thanks in advance!
My question is, is this true for an Executioner rogue? Executioner rogues get 30% increased damage every hit after a crit, so doesn't that simply raise their crit damage by 30%. Assuming no vorpal, with base crit damage = 75%, this would yield (75%-10% + 30%) = 95%. Is the reason arm penetration is better because this number is less than 100%?
Furthermore, would you argue this even for a rogue with a vorpal, yielding 145% crit damage?
Finally, would you argue this even if a rogue was already pushing 15% resistance ignored from arm pen?
I'm not asking this from a purely theoretical point of view. I'm probably going to be able to move up to the profound gear in the next week or so, and I'm torn between the two sets. Arm pen and Deflection are both things I need, but at the same time, I'd like more crit chance and recovery.
Thanks in advance!
Post edited by dragmosh on
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Assuming I take the scoundrel set, I'll have ~1400 crit strike, and ~2000 arpen. If I take the other set I'll have ~3000 crit strike and 500 arpen, although I can swap out accessories for arpen instead of crit chance. Assuming I decide to go for a vorpal, you still think arpen is better?
I think all Tr Profound gear sucks compared to the skulker set.
Especially for PVE
If you have the skulker keep it and earn the other.
Even with the 463 crit bonus, you will end up with less crit and even with the armpen of the scoundrel, you have less than the skulker.
And.........
almost 2000 less hps
I created a spreadsheet to compare all of them.
I am earning the scoundrel set, but I am very reluctant to use it until my PVP effectiveness takes a serious dip.
The question every needs to ask is
Is 8% more tenacity worth 1700hps and less crit and less armpen
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
tenacity is a huge defense for non perma's, 8% is a lot. You got to keep in mind too, you can compensate for lost crit, armpen, and health with gems, you can't gem tenacity.
Wouldn't that be amazing if they simply made tenacity enchantments?
Deflect is also a viable damage reducer for rogues if it is stacked decently considering they get 75% reduction on deflects. The new armor also provides that defensive bonus rather than just tenacity.
Stealth is a rogues best defense. The new gear provides an extra +5% stealth duration for better rotations and more room for error if hit with an AOE, DoT enchant, ect. Also, it does have significant power on the gear. It may not be as good as crit or arm pen, but it is still a viable damage boost.
Also +2.5% extra damage while stealthed I believe?
Despite all of this, 8% is significant. Say you have 30,000 hp. (.08)(30,000) = 2,400. What that essentially says is that if you are reducing all incoming damage, enough to make your hp 0, by 8%, you will save 2,400hp as a result of that extra 8% DR from tenacity. That does not include other benefits like crit hit suppression though. The only reason it may not be as viable is in the case of regen, but regen got nerfed and that would be neglecting the other nice benefits of the gear that are still provided above.
If you have less HP though, it would obviously start becoming less viable to have DR instead of straight HP, but either way comparing the two I'd definitely take profound.
All I need is the bracers so I will have a chance to try it out.
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
Butters TR PVP
I'm using Scoundrel build with the Grim Saboteur set. So it allows me to stay alive while doing the bulk of my damage outside of stealth
Butters TR PVP
Be prepared to quote this.
I rescind my previous comment.
I am now using the Profound Scoundrel set and have been using it in both PvP and PVE. I've lost some crit and some life steal, but my ArmPen is almost the same. Same for my recovery. My Power, Defense and Deflect are increased plus I have the tenacity bonus.
The loss of HP really does seem to be over compensated for by the Tenacity. In PvP, I have been tanking more and the past couple of days, when I was with a team that played as a team, I will fight to hold the center node, spin off to reclaim a secondary node, and then come back to help on the second node. I've been extremely effective. I will go toe to toe with any class one on one and be happy with the fact that if I lose, it's all skill based.
In PVE, the additional stealth time and stealth damage works great. Especially since my build is more about At-Will damage vs Crit.
As such, I would like to eat my previous words
and
thank those who increased my awareness
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
Compared to my Master Assassin's dagger, it seems like the Executioner is almost the same with just tenacity.
I think u lose 3% Crit, 3% recovery and 3% life steal
but gain 130 tenacity and 1 other stat is bumped a bit.
The scoundrel dagger in comparison gains Armpen but loses alot of crit.
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
Right now most TR use POTB and Bilethorn.
Both of them benefit from Armor pen. And do noted TR has no way to get armor pen from ability score. If you have 0 armor pen lol you gonna be so weak.
FYI executioner tree is no loner the best build path for TR anymore. Therefore plz go Scoundrel. It is the best.
Link is in my Sig
Tomorrow I will be able to buy my dagger.
I am going to get the Executioner.
If I don't like it, I will go back to my existing dagger until I farm my Fomorian or Fallen Dragon
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
Unfortunately not. It was tested on preview shard by another and proven that despite the fact that the skill will crit, it will not benefit from vorpal enchantments. This is for the best until it is made to benefit from all weapon enchants I suppose. Another thing worth noting is that despite it benefiting from crits, it also still does not proc overrun crit.
However, in the bug section, a few days ago I posted about weapon enchants and overrun crit still not benefiting despite the skill being reworked to fix it (with respect to critting) and got an admin post back that the bugs were submitted. Hopefully we can see this being added now, because the developer posted a few months ago the reason it was left not to benefit from weapon enchants or crit any time soon was because it would require reworking/damage nerfs. Now that these things are happening, hopefully these issues can be fixed now.
I was planning on going with 2 set +450 crit from PvE weapons instead. Especially if you go scoundrel set I don't see why it wouldn't be the best option myself. I guess it depends on how much effect the extra tenacity actually provides.
Plz name any TOP rogue that are actually rocking Executioner Set, or I call it BS.
I only know one good rogue using it and he runs smoke bomb a lot. With really high recovery.
If you talking about path, well as far as I know most TOP TR has made a transition from Executioner to Saboteur.
No one say anything about 1 v 1 using smoke bomb. Save your ego and bigtalk.
And no one gives a fk about how a TR PVE. TR sucks in PVE.
You clearly are nowhere near the best... No one TR I know run gloaming cut and barkshield that are good lol. Are you a TOP TR? If so who are you in game? If not plz stfu and stop defending your theorty. Or go find some TR that are good to defend your point.
Bet you are one of those pug TR that have good feeling about destroying nuubs BRO. Get a emblem or prepared to get **** on by any good TR in the server.
Nice tunnel vision. You have to use one specific setup or you are worthless compared to all of the top tier conformists? How do you think those builds got so popular in the first place? Someone tried something new and once people realized it was good they copied it.
Also, I've run the numbers because I needed to know how my new character would perform, and if you go with executioner set you can get a small damage boost using Executioner set over the other while maintaining similar recovery values via enchants. (This boost is amplified if you use vorpal.) The other set may be more reasonable for PvP due to the deflect added, but personally I've been moving away from tank/defensive builds in favor of more offensive PvP. I'd rather rely on my control of the build to keep me alive and be able to kill people faster rathern than go with a "forgiveness" build with the goal to win by staying alive the longest. If you are running stealth builds, you shouldn't need to rely on defensive stats as long as you still have regen anyway. (I've played well geared max CON/regen TR as well).
So, I think it is completely justified if you are going for the set with that mindset. Why do you want deflect if you are going to rely on stealth mechanics to stay alive and have the opportunity to add more damage instead? Nothing wrong with wanting to build a character for "best stat advantage" PvP, but if you are already surviving well with a tank based build, why would you settle for keeping those stats when you could be more efficient offensively by relying on being more aware to stay alive instead of using a stat cushion for it?
Emblems overrated? Try going up against a team with 4 or 5 emblems, while your team has none. I'll be very surprise if your team can even score 500 points in the game.
Well once a while you can beat another 1v1 that has an emblem if they're a bad p2w.
Have the gear and skills, but lack the friends to play with? Come and apply for Essence of Aggression. We have been here and strong since beta. (Immature, rude, and arrogant people will not be accepted)
Exectioner Crit + Rec
or
Scoundrel ArP + deflect
if i translated correctly
i personally have scoundrel since i already have 50% crit with it so i dont need more and with more ArP i can go for more power since i have a pvp/pve build so this set works for me and my play style.
Now even if ppl will say that this set sucks and they can own me without looking at the monitor i dont think i will care one bit.
There was also someone that said 10 rank ench in eq matters and i say BS because even if u have 10 rank ench u can still lose to someone less geared if u dont have the skills and there is little to none difference with 9-10 rank ench.