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HR dodge is to overpowered
corodmonty
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 5 Arc User
So why give a class 6-8 dodges? I mean 3-4 would be perfect (maybe increase the distance you go slightly) But their current dodge is way to overpowered. In a 1v1 fight against a TR its no match, unless the TR is a perma stealth scrub. But not all rogues want to go to such a low level just to be able to down rangers. On top of the ridiculous amount of dodges, they also have ability to increase their stamina with melee ability's then fly backwards 20 ft and do it all over again.
Now I know people say without it they would be squishy, but that to is bs. As my TR (4.8k power ad 3.8k crit) rarely hits hard on rangers, so unless I can get a cc off (again its near impossible if the HR knows how to dodge) there is no chance at winning in a 1v1 fight.
A easy solution to this would be to drastically decrease the amount they can dodge, but slightly increase the distance they dodge, make it like the CW, as long as the player knows how/when to dodge then there shouldn't be an issue, but right now TRs GF and GWFs cant and wont win against an opponent of equal skill/gs just because of the amount they can dodge.
Now lets have a CIVIL debate on this, as I would like to hear all sides, perhaps im just frustrated with my current performance against them. But I've been pvping since alpha and not to gloat, but im pretty good. I just hate the idea of a class that you literally cant hit, and when you do, you don't hit hard at all.
Now I know people say without it they would be squishy, but that to is bs. As my TR (4.8k power ad 3.8k crit) rarely hits hard on rangers, so unless I can get a cc off (again its near impossible if the HR knows how to dodge) there is no chance at winning in a 1v1 fight.
A easy solution to this would be to drastically decrease the amount they can dodge, but slightly increase the distance they dodge, make it like the CW, as long as the player knows how/when to dodge then there shouldn't be an issue, but right now TRs GF and GWFs cant and wont win against an opponent of equal skill/gs just because of the amount they can dodge.
Now lets have a CIVIL debate on this, as I would like to hear all sides, perhaps im just frustrated with my current performance against them. But I've been pvping since alpha and not to gloat, but im pretty good. I just hate the idea of a class that you literally cant hit, and when you do, you don't hit hard at all.
Post edited by corodmonty on
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But they will say that its not OP, because who wants to admit being OP?
I am a really good camel jockey, but this needs to be balanced ASAP.
And one more thing... What I totally don't get is that when Scissors beat Paper, and Paper beats Rock, then why do Scissors not beat Rock???
Drop that crit and get better defensive stats would help. Crit has massive diminishing returns after 2k (esp 3k).
I realize that doesn't answer your question. Hunter spells are fast and easy to land. Except for fox shift, they do little damage. TR abilities (lashing, dazing) are hard to land, but hit very hard. Save your dodges for constricting arrow and fox shift.
Fox shift is getting nerfed hard in mod 3.
the real issue is the jumping hunters. idk y, but it is so difficult to keep up with them compared to the grounded hunters.
Tbh, 3800 crit is a total waste of points, no one should stack crit above 3000 for PVP build becasue of diminishing return (even 3000 is too high imo). What's your arm pen btw? Arm pen is always better than crit and power before it hits soft cap at about 2200~2400, unless you are fighting against pugs with very low defense.
And with so much power and crit I can safely assume that you're using one of those squishy PvE DPS builds, trust me, any DPS builds won't work on premade vs premade especially when everyone else has high defensive stats + full tenacity gear sets.
My suggestion for you is to go perma (high recovery, use SS and BnS, optional:high INT), or at least semi-perma with high HP & deflect since you hate perma so much (understandable because perma can crush all non-perma), you don't wanna face tank an HR (or GWF) like what you're currently doing & go distribute some of your offensive stat points to defensive ones, preferably HP, deflect and regen (though regen is nerfed, it's still a good option).
CW is a garbage class at high end PVP. A liability.
couple this with "Seeker" , "Swift footwork" , "Ghostwalker" and you've got a nasty HR, able to get the levels you're saying. If I were to judge this decision, i's say they appropriately spec'd for this, and may be suffering DPS for it, hence why PvP defensive spec can be the better.
If you're not able to match them (no one can get this much dash, this is true, not saying that HR isn't definitely the highest dash counter, but that it's not far enough to outrun some hard hits) then make sure your gap-closer (TR stealth runspeed, GWF leap, etc) and hard hit/seeking .
cmon now
- JailBreak (in development)
I hear this all the time. The thing a lot of people don't see is that, while HRs get those 6-8 dodges(have to make sure to stack stamina/stamina boons), their dash isn't far, and the window for their damage immunity is also shortened... Its harder for an HR to time a dash to dodge damage, than a tr, dc, and of course the 3 dodges with best damage immunity timing that cw's get. So yes, nerf the hr ability that requires more skill to use in pvp than the other classes. Ill give you an example: enemy puts up an aoe about the size of the node(lets say sing)... ranger needs to blow at least 4 or 5 of those dashes, due to the drawing in effect, and now they might have 1 or at best 2 dashes to deal with... that don't reach very far when youre trying to escape. Whereas any other "dashing" classes require a dash or 2 at most, and theyre out of it... And their stamina should've regened enough to allow another. Whether in pvp or pve, an hr's dash require twice the skill, and better timing than the other classes. For pete's sake, I can at times dash into an aoe as a cw and avoid damage!
Jugger Conq GF
....
True. I haven't checked preview shard, but heard Fox's Shift gets hit hard, but all abilities get a supposed 40% damage buff, but split shot(40% nerf I hear). True?
I've made a thread about HRs, but got told that HRs are fine and I just need to l2p.
There are reasons I never take up Smoke Bomb with my TR. My ranged damage is worth more.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
I second this. HRs have been nerfed once already, and mod 3 is adding a few more as well. Ive heard a constant stream of gwf's, cw's, and tr's whine that something can foil their tactics.
HRs have been complained about since their conception. Nobody likes a new class coming along that has some foils to what they do. If you haven't seen much QQing about rangers, you haven't checked forums much, if at all.
1)they can be defensive: if they go nature and deflect stacking. Their mitigation abilities are good, if they decide to go that way. But that's sacking some of their great power, crit, armor pen.
2)great damage: yes, but once again, that's stacking power, crit, armor pen... and we all know that stacking those means less defense and deflect, right?
3)great regen: once again, slotting right artifacts and stacking regen, at the cost of dps... moving on.
4)stealth: really?! lets compare shall we? TR even not permastealth's stealth lasts far longer than an HRs DAILY. A daily versus a class feature is no comparison. Not to mention that a TR has a daily that makes their stealth last even longer. No other class can do such a thing. You don't see a daily for gwf's that makes unstoppable last 15 seconds longer(thank god). You don't see a cw daily that makes their cc last for 15 seconds more(holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if there was!). DC's hallowed ground(feated) heals, but it doesn't last longer, does it?
5)stun: they have 1 daily, and 1 encounter, and their encounter consists of a 1 second stun, with 2 follow up stuns. Don't TRs still have 2 stuns themselves?
6)root: that was basically all HRs had on the other classes, and congrats! those got nerfed, so gwf's can stop QQing now(except myself, I never whined. something deserved to be able to stop unstoppable, no?).
7)heals: really?! are you talking about Oak Skin? its healing is easily circumvented by any form of damage whatsoever(my hr with 5.2k pow heals 197hp (pre-tenacity) per tick. How is that healing significant?)
There is really a great unbalance on the hr class, pretty much every power is a root, stun or knock AND stealth and of course the mobility.
they lack GREAT defense and offense but that doesnt make the dodge fair.
Thing is, yes they have so much to go for them... but they cant do it better than other classes. They end up being a joat: jack of all trades, master of none(except rooting: that was their stand alone, and that's been nerfed btw).
Shorter is usually better because you can avoid more abilities. And for the times when you're getting super focused, you can just chain all the short ones together and avoid just as much as other classes.
You don't know what my rogue would give to be able to dodge prones 8 times.
And then if it's still not enough, you can just pop your stealth daily or use maurader's escape and dodge back a mile.
It really is ridiculous all the escapes HRs have.
And fyi, fox shift hits as hard or harder than any rogue encounter on a single target, so this master of none talk is BS. Even after the nerf (it got lessened- look at new patch notes), it'll still be about as good as any rogue ability and even somewhat better because you can spam it. If you miss with a rogue ability it's on a long cooldown.
Also, no class builds AP as slowly as a TR, taking that into account you should probably compare a 15 seconds boost from a TR Daily to a 10 seconds boost for any other class.
This right here. Stop messing with the PVE side of the game to make the pvp QQers happy. You will never make the pvp QQers happy. Ever.
fyi, fox shift was the LONE MELEE ABILITY THE HR HAD, and that's getting nerfed, so quit whining.
And does a rogue need even MORE dodges and escapes? Lets see...
1)stealth(first and foremost). I think you forget what I said earlier. TRs stealth is a class feature, whereas HRs is a daily. An HR has to build his daily up, does a TR have to build his stealth up? NO.
2)TRs also have dashes and cc escapes: Vengeance's Pursuit(which breaks cc might I add), Deft Strike, Impossible to Catch(name says it all). Most a ranger has is their teleports, and marauder's escape(which doesn't break cc, still takes damage in transit, so its not a DODGE).
3)Fox's Shift got nerfed way worse than your falsely advertising. Do the math: it hits 1 target at most twice. its power was in the fact that it could hit one target 3-4 times! By taking away 2 of the attacks, they do less damage. Less damage does not equal same damage!
SO, explaining that a hr has more ways to escape than a class with cc breaking, immunity, and instant de-targeting(stealth) tactics in and of itself is BS.
Like I said, they do a lot, but others do it better.
You know what hrs, no forget it, any other class would love? The ability to...
1)be invisible... permanently
2)Have an encounter that makes me immune to damage, and all control abilities
3)2 encounters that can break cc
4)not only the ability to become invisible, but a daily tailored to make you invisible for even longer
5)a daily that's so OP right now that it doesn't care about your opponents def or your own armor pen(shocking execution)
So please, I don't want to hear a tr crying that hr's dodges need to be nerfed, but all a tr has to offer isn't touched on at all. Once again, not saying tr's are OP, just saying that classes who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
i think casting while jumping needs to be nerfed >.>
if i hadn't said it enough, then i will say it again. jumping hunters r ridiculous. never seen a hunter with that kind of mobility on the ground........
I mean. Neverwinter is a PvP game first and foremost and there isn't any PvE- oh wait.
I don't even PvP and you want to nerf my dodge so that I can't clear content anymore just because you don't know how to play your class in PvP? I don't know if the mods will allow me to say this, but go jump in a lake.
I was talking about Impossible to Catch
True, but at least they get one, is all im saying.
Yea, that changed. Met permastealth's in the past that used lurker's assault. After all, Bloodbath in the end blows anyway, we all agree on that, right?
Thing is, originally hr's were a foil for gwf's too... they nerfed rooting so its not as effective now.
No issue with this. Cw's are using jumping tactics as well. Just that for all hr's "escapes" that the previous poster was whining about, they aren't(tr's) as bad off in their abilities either, and they have more effective ways of avoiding damage. Heck, theyre the best at it.
Welcome to the TR's world.
Impossible to Catch: for 4 seconds, deflects all attacks on u and grants cc immunity. can even break u out of most cc.
Stealth bonus: grants damage immunity
the normal bonus is fine and very needed. it's just the stealth bonus that gives everyone the middle finger.
Also, ITC lasts 5 seconds, but it's not overpowered in the slightest. It's necessary for a class that relies on stealth to mitigate damage. The only people who complain about stealth or ITC are the ones that blow all their encounters when a TR uses it, or doesn't know how to find one on the point.
i say 4 seconds because prones can interrupt it in the very 1st second of using it. i was actually surprised a wizard interrupted it without using the meteor thing.