In every PvP match since the PvP update I've been in I have been completly dominated by a single GWF
As the bad guy here I'd say it fluctuates a lot since beta, following the various nerfs on the respective classes.
During mod1 a fight against a CW was always me getting EF-ed to death, without ever filling my bar enough to trigger Unstoppable. I was always defeated.
Just before the Tenacity patch the CW, being ranged, would have the first hit. After losing 30 to 50 percent of life, my Unstoppable was up. I was running at the mage and so were my team mates since "Focus the mage!" is usually the motto in PvP and the CW died. All in all I was finding that my chances were much better against a CW than against any other class.
Since the Tenacity patch, my Unstoppable bar is filling very slowly. A 1v1 vs a CW is a very long process with him EF-ing me (with Ice Knife once in a while), delivering low damage that is at first compensated by my regen, until at some point the diminishing healing thing triggers, my regen heals for less and less and I finally die. But it's very long and usually the outcome of the fight is decided by a third guy joining in. If it's a red guy, I die instantly. If it's a blue guy, the mage dies.
Best PvP CWs in the game are close to 40K HP (no, not kidding you) if they didn't change gear. Even myself with suboptimal tiefling with 17 max Con can go up to 36.5+K HP.
No offense, but pugs don't mean about nothing.
Why?
Cause they are clueless.
In a premade, you will be focused first, and sadly not even 35K HP won't save you in the end. But at least you might end up with decent k/d ratios (1:1 or so in balanced matches maybe) instead of what happens if you're low HP (1:20 k/d if not worse :P)
Pugging don't mean anything? Newflash, a lot more people pug than play premade.
And I saw you saying "pro players" before. I didn't know that there are players making money from playing NW. Do tell who they are! Your elitist attitude is what I hate about "high end pvp players". Like if you don't PvP mostly in premades you are.. nothing?
Did it never occur to you that people have principles and that they might stick to them? Like not wanting to form a carefully thought out party with the most OP builds and classes in the game. Or to put in real money to get ahead. The money thing is far less an issue than the class/builds thing. I don't think I've come across a single "high end pvper" with a decent attitude in all my hours of playtime.
You have probably come the closest, but the more I read your comments, the more I see that you being in that elitist guild is rubbing off on you. Don't bite the hand that feeds you type of thing I guess. Can't complain about trolls and p2w when you play with them on a daily basis I guess. You are entering the dark side Pers..
The worst thing is that you cannot beat any of them without joining them. Finding good players with my own philosofy is about as easy as finding someone who has never glitched or trolled in NW. The mentality might be found, but they won't be geared out with natural talent most likely.
How to combat a GWF? The only thing to do is to wait it out and hope for some balancing. None of these ludacris things about "calling for help" blabla bs. Just accept being trolled if you want to play. You might take the beating for long enough to see a balance patch coming their way. And at the same time fixing permas.
This will of course only lead these trolls to the next thing that ensures easy mode, but hopefully it won't be AS EASY as it is now.
I am not saying that these "high end pvpers" are all bad players. What I am saying is that it's impossible to say if they are or not. You would need to remove the paid for items, the OP build/class and the people he always parties up with, to find this out.
And as sure as there are glitchers in Neverwinter, this will NEVER happen. A lot of these players actually tell themselves that they are skilled, they need to believe it, so let them.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Pugging don't mean anything? Newflash, a lot more people pug than play premade.
And I saw you saying "pro players" before. I didn't know that there are players making money from playing NW. Do tell who they are! Your elitist attitude is what I hate about "high end pvp players". Like if you don't PvP mostly in premades you are.. nothing?
Did it never occur to you that people have principles and that they might stick to them? Like not wanting to form a carefully thought out party with the most OP builds and classes in the game. Or to put in real money to get ahead. The money thing is far less an issue than the class/builds thing. I don't think I've come across a single "high end pvper" with a decent attitude in all my hours of playtime.
You have probably come the closest, but the more I read your comments, the more I see that you being in that elitist guild is rubbing off on you. Don't bite the hand that feeds you type of thing I guess. Can't complain about trolls and p2w when you play with them on a daily basis I guess. You are entering the dark side Pers..
The worst thing is that you cannot beat any of them without joining them. Finding good players with my own philosofy is about as easy as finding someone who has never glitched or trolled in NW. The mentality might be found, but they won't be geared out with natural talent most likely.
How to combat a GWF? The only thing to do is to wait it out and hope for some balancing. None of these ludacris things about "calling for help" blabla bs. Just accept being trolled if you want to play. You might take the beating for long enough to see a balance patch coming their way. And at the same time fixing permas.
This will of course only lead these trolls to the next thing that ensures easy mode, but hopefully it won't be AS EASY as it is now.
I am not saying that these "high end pvpers" are all bad players. What I am saying is that it's impossible to say if they are or not. You would need to remove the paid for items, the OP build/class and the people he always parties up with, to find this out.
And as sure as there are glitchers in Neverwinter, this will NEVER happen. A lot of these players actually tell themselves that they are skilled, they need to believe it, so let them.
First, I left Synergy and am in a small guild of a friend I used to farm CN with, to be honest, mostly for GG.
Second, I'm not an elitist or a pro player, yeah, I'm also not new to the game and I might be decent at CW, although I do not think highly of myself.
Third, I can recognize pro players (regardless of money making, pro meaning just extremely good) and I can also recognize what happens in this game.
So what happens in the game?
- some people pug, including me many times, although I'm getting more and more discouraged with this. Most of them are highly clueless.
- some people premade. Some are baddies, or elitist ******s who think they are oh-so-awesome cause they can kill a CW with lesser gear or something with their r10 permas/sentis/HRs and so on. You know the type. But some are great guys, some didn't even pay a dime and farmed hard, and some are also very skilled and able to do some theorycrafting.
I tend to respect skill and knowledge. That's all I suppose.
Do they play FOTM builds? Yeah sure, they wanna win. To be honest, if I could switch my tiefling for a halfling I would, cause I wanna be better too, and that would help.
All in all, don't disregard true skill in people just because they might have bought the gear, play OP build, or do just premades in a top guild.
When in 5vs5 are all FOTM OP build, all R10s, things are balanced. Some people are STILL good.
And yes, premades are where you show your true skills. This is where you meet people that are PvPing for a long while and have the experience to deal with you. So why not respect them?
I just wanted to post back, since being criticized on this thread for "low" HP.
I have questioned/re-evaluated my gear & made some pretty drastic changes... even lowered my GS to get my HP/regen/LS up.
Dropped some offense, & got my HP up to almost 35k now, and I will agree that I am doing much better in PvP. I was doing well before, and my points & K: D ratios aren't vastly different, but I am staying vertical more & think I am contributing much more to the team. It is much harder to take me down, & I will often kite 2-3 red players halfway across the map before they can bring me down... the whole time, the rest of my team is capping all 3 nodes.
In summary, I don't think anyone is wrong favoring a bit more burst for less survivability & I dont think 25k HP is "horrible" as described, but for my play-style, I am enjoying PvP much more with the new survivability.
In every PvP match since the PvP update I've been in I have been completly dominated by a single GWF or GF at less then half health, I feel like they should just change the names to Great Control Fighter and Control Fighter, seeing as how it's near impossible to be a "Control" wizard versus them, I switched to thaum pvp gear to increase my armor pen in hopes of doing any noticeable damage to them to no avail, I would love some suggestions on how to either keep them at bay, kill them faster, or just make them leave me alone. I've also tried using full high vizer with azure / dark enchants. but i switched to radiant enchants and thaum wich also works I usually switch between two different combinations of sets (I've found it better for all around PvP) All enchants are rank 8 and greater vorp/soulforged
I'll tell you how not to fight them.
Dont fight them by expecting to defeat them face to face and definitely dont fight them on the zone/say chat as you so love to do mr Crazy Mike.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Pugging don't mean anything? Newflash, a lot more people pug than play premade.
And I saw you saying "pro players" before. I didn't know that there are players making money from playing NW. Do tell who they are! Your elitist attitude is what I hate about "high end pvp players". Like if you don't PvP mostly in premades you are.. nothing?
Did it never occur to you that people have principles and that they might stick to them? Like not wanting to form a carefully thought out party with the most OP builds and classes in the game. Or to put in real money to get ahead. The money thing is far less an issue than the class/builds thing. I don't think I've come across a single "high end pvper" with a decent attitude in all my hours of playtime.
You have probably come the closest, but the more I read your comments, the more I see that you being in that elitist guild is rubbing off on you. Don't bite the hand that feeds you type of thing I guess. Can't complain about trolls and p2w when you play with them on a daily basis I guess. You are entering the dark side Pers..
The worst thing is that you cannot beat any of them without joining them. Finding good players with my own philosofy is about as easy as finding someone who has never glitched or trolled in NW. The mentality might be found, but they won't be geared out with natural talent most likely.
How to combat a GWF? The only thing to do is to wait it out and hope for some balancing. None of these ludacris things about "calling for help" blabla bs. Just accept being trolled if you want to play. You might take the beating for long enough to see a balance patch coming their way. And at the same time fixing permas.
This will of course only lead these trolls to the next thing that ensures easy mode, but hopefully it won't be AS EASY as it is now.
I am not saying that these "high end pvpers" are all bad players. What I am saying is that it's impossible to say if they are or not. You would need to remove the paid for items, the OP build/class and the people he always parties up with, to find this out.
And as sure as there are glitchers in Neverwinter, this will NEVER happen. A lot of these players actually tell themselves that they are skilled, they need to believe it, so let them.
Had to quote and add this - I play for fun, having a certain type of must-have race/class/build/guild in order to 'win' is an instant turn off for me. I do enjoy developing 1 single character in any game and that is not the flavour-of-the month class but the one that I like the most. Been with my GWF since the beta. Stayed with him during the hard times when the class was pretty much not needed in pve. Enjoying him now. As far as pvp goes - I was always a Destroyer, that should tell you enough. The Rush is not too strong, the Rush on a Sent looks too strong but its an illusion that will come crashing as soon as the DG nerf goes live.
In the end Id say this - no need to hate on people who play op builds with rank 10s, perfects etc etc. They invested time and money to get there so its ok to lose to them in pvp. Thats how things are. If you wanna hunt monsters you gotta become one yourself.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
What if I want to play a magic caster DPS monster? And hunt down the invisible/tanky monsters?
You ask you invisible/tanky/HR monster friend for help and burn him to the ground.^^ But on a serious note, I quit playing my CW in PUGs. A friend of mine plays his CW in PvP. If we go semi-/ premade he rocks, but if he goes for a PUG he woud have to put 1000 $ a day in our TS swearwordjar, if anything like this woud exist (tbh, a guildmember suggested the jar because he had to hear abovementioned CW while playing in a PvP PUG).
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You ask you invisible/tanky/HR monster friend for help and burn him to the ground.^^ But on a serious note, I quit playing my CW in PUGs. A friend of mine plays his CW in PvP. If we go semi-/ premade he rocks, but if he goes for a PUG he woud have to put 1000 $ a day in our TS swearwordjar, if anything like this woud exist (tbh, a guildmember suggested the jar because he had to hear abovementioned CW while playing in a PvP PUG).
Yeah, each good PvP CW knows that he must play like a coward if he wants to be efficient, i.e. run away from every encounter that seems it might go wrong and come back with a friend and 2vs1 the guy.
This doesn't seem particularly heroic and satisfying however... compared to the solo capabilities of other classes.
Till then however, have fun getting carried by friends that were smarter when they chose class.
I woud not say, that a good CW in a decent team gets carried by his friends, he can contribute a lot to the fight, if his team helps him to survive the inital cry of the mob, I mean enemy, kill the witch, I mean CW.
We have a lot of fun, when I am able to get the enemy team to focus on my GWF, he drops his shard on their heads, prone, FLS, prone, takedown and EF on the survivors.
A good CW cant defend a node like a good TR, but he can help a lot conquering a node, if his team helps him out, as he does. This is a 5v5, not a 1v1 match.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I woud not say, that a good CW in a decent team gets carried by his friends, he can contribute a lot to the fight, if his team helps him to survive the inital cry of the mob, I mean enemy, kill the witch, I mean CW.
We have a lot of fun, when I am able to get the enemy team to focus on my GWF, he drops his shard on their heads, prone, FLS, prone, takedown and EF on the survivors.
A good CW cant defend a node like a good TR, but he can help a lot conquering a node, if his team helps him out, as he does. This is a 5v5, not a 1v1 match.
The 5vs5 argument is often proposed by classes that can actually hold their own in 1vs1, such as GWFs, TRs or HRs. The reality is that matches contain many, many 1vs1 situations. If you win them, you put your team at great advantage. One example is the perma or GWF that can hold a node, and the enemy team has no 1vs 1 answer, since the GWF/TR would win all duels, so they have to always send 2 people there. Match is already almost won.
Even slight imbalances in team comps are extremely important for the outcome of a game. For example having a CW while the enemy has a GWF (assuming relatively same skills and gear) will put the GWF team at big advantage.
The more people you have that are able to hold&contest nodes, the better. In this aspect, a CW is more of a liability. We don't have much compared to other classes:
- worse CC than GWF, HR, GF
- worse damage than HR, GWF, maybe even GF sometimes
- worse survivability than HR, GF, GWF, TR, DC
So you see... the question is:
Why would you run a CW - when you can run a HR for example.
Yes, good HRs are quite OP now (prepatch), So the good HR usualy beats the good CW, concerning group composition (group dodge ftw).
In my opinion perma TRs are the worst enemies to play against, but when we went against a premade with 3 GWF, one GF and one more GF or TR, I am not sure, we owned them with HR and TR on 1 and 3 and GWF CW and DC on 2. If one of them went for our node alone, he died sometimes without one sec without CC and 3v3 the did neither have the CC or the burst damage to kill one of us, before we killed them.
Premade DC, x HR, y GWF and z TRs seems to be the flavour of the month, prefered with at last two of the players capping 2 with a golden emblem of Seladine, but in a good team against onother good premade CW is still a good choice, compard to pure GWF stacking.
As said before, my PvE speced CW did not see PvP for some time because my tolerance for BS PUG runs was at its limit (I tried GrimSet, HV with profound jewelery aso.). CWs are in a bad place atm and with open world PvP it coud get even worse (50k GWFs with purple fawn, 5000 reg and 100% CC immunity with passives from other pets). But against a medicre-good PUG/ premade a CW can still do ok, if his team is ok.
It coud be, that the CW is totaly useless in high end premade PvP, but so woud be my GWF (destroyer) and 95% of all PvP players.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It coud be, that the CW is totaly useless in high end premade PvP, but so woud be my GWF (destroyer) and 95% of all PvP players.
Nah, it's not quite that bad
It just needs team that can pretty much carry it, with 2-3 dedicated node contesters, so the CW can play pure support without having to step on nodes too much.
Even so, there are very very few CWs able to fill the role properly. Probably below 10 in the entire game, and from those 10, even less that are actually very good.
Put any of them in a balanced/semi-unfavorable pug, and it will look as if they kinda suck Reality being however, they aren't able to do much. To be honest, most good CWs I've met while they were pugging (VERY RARE cases) and I was premade/better pug, they either didn't go down from spawn, or stopped fighting and chatted instead Some asked for 1vs1s, but not many CWs like to duel, because, you know, obvious reasons :P
All in all, a very team dependent pure support class.
The only time I get owned is when Im zerged by multiple people... If I can out tactic them I can get away, however GWF with help or TR with help I have really nothing can be done!
I feel TR need a down side to permastealth, I also think GWF unstoppable should make them take 20% more damage.
Unstoppable
Useable at 50% or more Determination
With grim resolve you break free from control effects, and steel yourself for the challenge ahead.
While active, you are immune to control effects, your At-Will attacks are much faster but slightly weaker, you gain 10-20% of your max hit points as temporary hit points based on how much Determination you had, and you resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on how much Determination you had.
While Unstoppable is active, you gain drastic less AP with At-Will powers.
%
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I know pers3phone catches a bit of flak for that persistently negative outlook on CWs in PvP, but it's all true, sadly. CWs are just not difficult to counter. About the only match-up that's not unfavorable for the CW is vs. DC. A BiS DC can still be killed by an equivalent CW, but the DC's artifacts, Dailies, and potions can prolong the fight so that help should be on the way long before you secure the kill.
Yeah, each good PvP CW knows that he must play like a coward if he wants to be efficient, i.e. run away
This way of thinking is wrong, a cloth wearing caster cant afford not to move while fighting an armored melee specialist, its not running - its tactical. Are you purposely trying to present CWs as weak
I have to say the only CWs ( and others classes for that matter ) I 'faceroll' are those with considerably lower GS than mine.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
The only time I get owned is when Im zerged by multiple people... If I can out tactic them I can get away, however GWF with help or TR with help I have really nothing can be done!
I feel TR need a down side to permastealth, I also think GWF unstoppable should make them take 20% more damage.
Unstoppable
Useable at 50% or more Determination
With grim resolve you break free from control effects, and steel yourself for the challenge ahead.
While active, you are immune to control effects, your At-Will attacks are much faster but slightly weaker, you gain 10-20% of your max hit points as temporary hit points based on how much Determination you had, and you resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on how much Determination you had.
While Unstoppable is active, you gain drastic less AP with At-Will powers.
%
You think too much
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Comments
As the bad guy here I'd say it fluctuates a lot since beta, following the various nerfs on the respective classes.
During mod1 a fight against a CW was always me getting EF-ed to death, without ever filling my bar enough to trigger Unstoppable. I was always defeated.
Just before the Tenacity patch the CW, being ranged, would have the first hit. After losing 30 to 50 percent of life, my Unstoppable was up. I was running at the mage and so were my team mates since "Focus the mage!" is usually the motto in PvP and the CW died. All in all I was finding that my chances were much better against a CW than against any other class.
Since the Tenacity patch, my Unstoppable bar is filling very slowly. A 1v1 vs a CW is a very long process with him EF-ing me (with Ice Knife once in a while), delivering low damage that is at first compensated by my regen, until at some point the diminishing healing thing triggers, my regen heals for less and less and I finally die. But it's very long and usually the outcome of the fight is decided by a third guy joining in. If it's a red guy, I die instantly. If it's a blue guy, the mage dies.
Pugging don't mean anything? Newflash, a lot more people pug than play premade.
And I saw you saying "pro players" before. I didn't know that there are players making money from playing NW. Do tell who they are! Your elitist attitude is what I hate about "high end pvp players". Like if you don't PvP mostly in premades you are.. nothing?
Did it never occur to you that people have principles and that they might stick to them? Like not wanting to form a carefully thought out party with the most OP builds and classes in the game. Or to put in real money to get ahead. The money thing is far less an issue than the class/builds thing. I don't think I've come across a single "high end pvper" with a decent attitude in all my hours of playtime.
You have probably come the closest, but the more I read your comments, the more I see that you being in that elitist guild is rubbing off on you. Don't bite the hand that feeds you type of thing I guess. Can't complain about trolls and p2w when you play with them on a daily basis I guess. You are entering the dark side Pers..
The worst thing is that you cannot beat any of them without joining them. Finding good players with my own philosofy is about as easy as finding someone who has never glitched or trolled in NW. The mentality might be found, but they won't be geared out with natural talent most likely.
How to combat a GWF? The only thing to do is to wait it out and hope for some balancing. None of these ludacris things about "calling for help" blabla bs. Just accept being trolled if you want to play. You might take the beating for long enough to see a balance patch coming their way. And at the same time fixing permas.
This will of course only lead these trolls to the next thing that ensures easy mode, but hopefully it won't be AS EASY as it is now.
I am not saying that these "high end pvpers" are all bad players. What I am saying is that it's impossible to say if they are or not. You would need to remove the paid for items, the OP build/class and the people he always parties up with, to find this out.
And as sure as there are glitchers in Neverwinter, this will NEVER happen. A lot of these players actually tell themselves that they are skilled, they need to believe it, so let them.
First, I left Synergy and am in a small guild of a friend I used to farm CN with, to be honest, mostly for GG.
Second, I'm not an elitist or a pro player, yeah, I'm also not new to the game and I might be decent at CW, although I do not think highly of myself.
Third, I can recognize pro players (regardless of money making, pro meaning just extremely good) and I can also recognize what happens in this game.
So what happens in the game?
- some people pug, including me many times, although I'm getting more and more discouraged with this. Most of them are highly clueless.
- some people premade. Some are baddies, or elitist ******s who think they are oh-so-awesome cause they can kill a CW with lesser gear or something with their r10 permas/sentis/HRs and so on. You know the type. But some are great guys, some didn't even pay a dime and farmed hard, and some are also very skilled and able to do some theorycrafting.
I tend to respect skill and knowledge. That's all I suppose.
Do they play FOTM builds? Yeah sure, they wanna win. To be honest, if I could switch my tiefling for a halfling I would, cause I wanna be better too, and that would help.
All in all, don't disregard true skill in people just because they might have bought the gear, play OP build, or do just premades in a top guild.
When in 5vs5 are all FOTM OP build, all R10s, things are balanced. Some people are STILL good.
And yes, premades are where you show your true skills. This is where you meet people that are PvPing for a long while and have the experience to deal with you. So why not respect them?
I have questioned/re-evaluated my gear & made some pretty drastic changes... even lowered my GS to get my HP/regen/LS up.
Dropped some offense, & got my HP up to almost 35k now, and I will agree that I am doing much better in PvP. I was doing well before, and my points & K: D ratios aren't vastly different, but I am staying vertical more & think I am contributing much more to the team. It is much harder to take me down, & I will often kite 2-3 red players halfway across the map before they can bring me down... the whole time, the rest of my team is capping all 3 nodes.
In summary, I don't think anyone is wrong favoring a bit more burst for less survivability & I dont think 25k HP is "horrible" as described, but for my play-style, I am enjoying PvP much more with the new survivability.
Just put Steal Time in Spell Mastery, throw down Icy Terrain, and use Maelstrom as your daily.
Do it for the lulz.
I'll tell you how not to fight them.
Dont fight them by expecting to defeat them face to face and definitely dont fight them on the zone/say chat as you so love to do mr Crazy Mike.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Had to quote and add this - I play for fun, having a certain type of must-have race/class/build/guild in order to 'win' is an instant turn off for me. I do enjoy developing 1 single character in any game and that is not the flavour-of-the month class but the one that I like the most. Been with my GWF since the beta. Stayed with him during the hard times when the class was pretty much not needed in pve. Enjoying him now. As far as pvp goes - I was always a Destroyer, that should tell you enough. The Rush is not too strong, the Rush on a Sent looks too strong but its an illusion that will come crashing as soon as the DG nerf goes live.
In the end Id say this - no need to hate on people who play op builds with rank 10s, perfects etc etc. They invested time and money to get there so its ok to lose to them in pvp. Thats how things are. If you wanna hunt monsters you gotta become one yourself.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
What if I want to play a magic caster DPS monster?
You ask you invisible/tanky/HR monster friend for help and burn him to the ground.^^ But on a serious note, I quit playing my CW in PUGs. A friend of mine plays his CW in PvP. If we go semi-/ premade he rocks, but if he goes for a PUG he woud have to put 1000 $ a day in our TS swearwordjar, if anything like this woud exist (tbh, a guildmember suggested the jar because he had to hear abovementioned CW while playing in a PvP PUG).
Yeah, each good PvP CW knows that he must play like a coward if he wants to be efficient, i.e. run away from every encounter that seems it might go wrong and come back with a friend and 2vs1 the guy.
This doesn't seem particularly heroic and satisfying however... compared to the solo capabilities of other classes.
Till then however, have fun getting carried by friends that were smarter when they chose class.
We have a lot of fun, when I am able to get the enemy team to focus on my GWF, he drops his shard on their heads, prone, FLS, prone, takedown and EF on the survivors.
A good CW cant defend a node like a good TR, but he can help a lot conquering a node, if his team helps him out, as he does. This is a 5v5, not a 1v1 match.
The 5vs5 argument is often proposed by classes that can actually hold their own in 1vs1, such as GWFs, TRs or HRs. The reality is that matches contain many, many 1vs1 situations. If you win them, you put your team at great advantage. One example is the perma or GWF that can hold a node, and the enemy team has no 1vs 1 answer, since the GWF/TR would win all duels, so they have to always send 2 people there. Match is already almost won.
Even slight imbalances in team comps are extremely important for the outcome of a game. For example having a CW while the enemy has a GWF (assuming relatively same skills and gear) will put the GWF team at big advantage.
The more people you have that are able to hold&contest nodes, the better. In this aspect, a CW is more of a liability. We don't have much compared to other classes:
- worse CC than GWF, HR, GF
- worse damage than HR, GWF, maybe even GF sometimes
- worse survivability than HR, GF, GWF, TR, DC
So you see... the question is:
Why would you run a CW - when you can run a HR for example.
In my opinion perma TRs are the worst enemies to play against, but when we went against a premade with 3 GWF, one GF and one more GF or TR, I am not sure, we owned them with HR and TR on 1 and 3 and GWF CW and DC on 2. If one of them went for our node alone, he died sometimes without one sec without CC and 3v3 the did neither have the CC or the burst damage to kill one of us, before we killed them.
Premade DC, x HR, y GWF and z TRs seems to be the flavour of the month, prefered with at last two of the players capping 2 with a golden emblem of Seladine, but in a good team against onother good premade CW is still a good choice, compard to pure GWF stacking.
As said before, my PvE speced CW did not see PvP for some time because my tolerance for BS PUG runs was at its limit (I tried GrimSet, HV with profound jewelery aso.). CWs are in a bad place atm and with open world PvP it coud get even worse (50k GWFs with purple fawn, 5000 reg and 100% CC immunity with passives from other pets). But against a medicre-good PUG/ premade a CW can still do ok, if his team is ok.
It coud be, that the CW is totaly useless in high end premade PvP, but so woud be my GWF (destroyer) and 95% of all PvP players.
Nah, it's not quite that bad
It just needs team that can pretty much carry it, with 2-3 dedicated node contesters, so the CW can play pure support without having to step on nodes too much.
Even so, there are very very few CWs able to fill the role properly. Probably below 10 in the entire game, and from those 10, even less that are actually very good.
Put any of them in a balanced/semi-unfavorable pug, and it will look as if they kinda suck
All in all, a very team dependent pure support class.
I feel TR need a down side to permastealth, I also think GWF unstoppable should make them take 20% more damage.
Unstoppable
Useable at 50% or more Determination
With grim resolve you break free from control effects, and steel yourself for the challenge ahead.
While active, you are immune to control effects, your At-Will attacks are much faster but slightly weaker, you gain 10-20% of your max hit points as temporary hit points based on how much Determination you had, and you resist 25-50% of incoming damage based on how much Determination you had.
While Unstoppable is active, you gain drastic less AP with At-Will powers.
%
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
You must be on arcane steroids to do that, talk to Knox, I hear he's dealin'...
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
This way of thinking is wrong, a cloth wearing caster cant afford not to move while fighting an armored melee specialist, its not running - its tactical. Are you purposely trying to present CWs as weak
I have to say the only CWs ( and others classes for that matter ) I 'faceroll' are those with considerably lower GS than mine.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You think too much
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!