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How to combat GWF / GF
crazymikee
Member Posts: 694 Arc User
In every PvP match since the PvP update I've been in I have been completly dominated by a single GWF or GF at less then half health, I feel like they should just change the names to Great Control Fighter and Control Fighter, seeing as how it's near impossible to be a "Control" wizard versus them, I switched to thaum pvp gear to increase my armor pen in hopes of doing any noticeable damage to them to no avail, I would love some suggestions on how to either keep them at bay, kill them faster, or just make them leave me alone. I've also tried using full high vizer with azure / dark enchants. but i switched to radiant enchants and thaum wich also works I usually switch between two different combinations of sets (I've found it better for all around PvP) All enchants are rank 8 and greater vorp/soulforged
Option 1 (dark enchants in defence slot/lifesteal)
http://i.gyazo.com/be6fa30fd1671e5e5795f88f2a6381e8.png
Option 2 (radiant enchants in defence slot/hpboost)
http://gyazo.com/a5cc9a485a8770c070eb2b2c252d39c4
Option 1 (dark enchants in defence slot/lifesteal)
http://i.gyazo.com/be6fa30fd1671e5e5795f88f2a6381e8.png
Option 2 (radiant enchants in defence slot/hpboost)
http://gyazo.com/a5cc9a485a8770c070eb2b2c252d39c4
Coach Mike - 19.1k PvP CW
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
![http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]](http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
Post edited by crazymikee on
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- first you should have PvP build and PvP gear, with lots of HP. I'd recommend at least 30K HP, although a more reasonable figure is 35K hP, and 38-40K even better... with lots of regen and defenses
- if you see GF/GWF on point, ask for help, try to stall/survive until help arrives, you might not be able to though. Don't be a hero
- run to teammates, preferably the ones with prones and serious CC (unlike yours, which kinda sucks to be honest...)
- ask for help
- ask for help
- ask for help
- be a cowardly mage and run and jump around pillars and kite as much as you can
- be a cowardly mage and don't stay on the ground unless you really, REALLY have to (point red and nobody to cap/contest. Use higher ground.
- Avoid all confrontations that might seem to go wrong. Return when you're 2vs1...
That's about it.
Basically, you have to dodge their prone moves. I find if I dodge right past them it confuses them a little it helps as they have to keep turning around to attack you.
With GFs try to guess if they're going to block or not. If they are, I find the ice beam whittles it down. If not, that's when you want to use your control abilities. Save ice knife for when you're sure they won't block it (if they're prone, entangled or if they have no more shield left).
With GWFs just try to survive through Unstoppable and attack them when they're not in it.
Basically just keep trying to CC them as much as possible and dodge their proning moves.
Try to conserve your dodges because once they're gone you're in big trouble.
Roll a TR
How to PvP? Roll a TR. Win-win since closed beta.
*sarcasm*
Unfortunately, only pvp-specced and equipped mage has a chance against fighters.
He reaches you very fast with shift/threatening rush but waiting his unstoppable to use so repel him away then he finally switch to ustoppable.
Wait for his ustoppable to burn and then entagled force/ice knife. Rinse and repeat.
Gf: Its fun to counter. Blink his cc-lock. Ray of frost is eating up his guard fast.
If his guard is burned he is sitting ducks. entagled force+Ice knife/icy ray. Rinse and repeat.
The problem with Repel is that it fails ridiculously often now. Fails even to push the target, I mean. Prone chains with Shard and Ice Knife are still great, but EF doesn't work as reliably as a setup as it did prior to increased CC resistance (even accounting for CWs' resist penetration). Good GWFs are difficult to trap unless you get the drop on them, so to speak. Good GWFs are also the ones dealing huge damage even against defensive setups with a lot of Tenacity.
GFs are indeed much easier, though dangerous if they get their CC chain going. They, at least, can be reliably and consistently countered outside of Villain's Menace.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
kozi this works with average GWFs and GFs. I'll describe how an encounter with a pro type player will go:
GWF:
GWF will Threatening Rush spam. And spam it they will, and you will take so much damage that you will NEED to blink it, and get debuffed as well, while also suffering Deep Gash DoT from crits (around 40-50%). If you are stationary for a bit longer, GWF with Frontline you, if it hits, you gonna eat a Takedown and an IBS after that, which overall will leave you almost dead (from 35K HP 20% Tenacity). You can kite GWF for a while, but in the end you will die from TR spam and Deep Gash even as you manage to miraculously dodge every prone. Even worse is if the GWF slots Roar, which builds determination as well and seemingly goes through Tenacity, CCing you for a looong while - just good for the takedown+IBS combo.
GF:
This is a better matchup, but if GF is good, your chances are close to 0. He will do his 65 yrds intercepts (I think, GFs that read this can correct me), has Threatening Rush as well, FLS as well, Bull Charge and Lunging Strike. Best you can do is Icy Rays the guy and try to freeze him (eating his guard will NOT work, under any circumstances, not even if you score Ice Knife+ shard criticals). Also good GFs will bait your encounters and not turtle behind shield like morons. Once you're prone (and you will be), their prone chains seem to never end. When you finally get up, you gonna be again below 50% HP or almost dead if dailied.
Now, let's mention that this game is not about kills, but about capping/contesting points.
The moment a CW HAS to stay on point, my friends, you're all but dead in a legit 1vs1 situation.
Hence...
Ask for help. Be a coward. Win the match.
I would love additional tips as well.
I have a 16.3K GS specced for PvP. I have 25k HP + Perfect Barkskin enchant, so that adds effectively 4-5k more HP, bringing me to ~30K.
I can kill most poorly played or poorly geared GWF/GFs, but if they are good and/or well geared I will get slaughtered or I run away. Even if I can manage to kill them, it simply takes too long... It may take me 3-4 minutes to wear down a hunkered down GF.
Having said all that, I'll tell you what seems to work best for me...
Keep as far away as possible and don't let them close (if possible). I put all rank 10 speed enchants in my utility slots & have the stamina buff from the artifact for extra teleporting. (Honestly, Neverwinter should add a speed buff/feat for CW). You need to make sure you are very good at blinking and casting icy rays (it is insta-cast, if you can do it fast enough). This may sound elementary, but I see tons of CWs pathetic at teleport & casting on the run... I use a mouse macro to double click icy rays for me. This will give you a little stun and buy you a bit of distance, or maybe enough time to cast Chill Strike or choke.
When the GWF pops unstoppable (usually when CC'd or low on health), cancel all attacks & just try keep away/running until it ends, then pop icy rays & followup with another spell... Don't get greedy... they can usually close before you'll get a 2nd or 3rd spell off unless a CC stuck. Don't forget, with unstoppable up you cant stun, freeze, or choke... & your spells do almost no damage... let it run out before wasting an encounter. If you have Ice Knife up, try not to use it until GWF is low HP... then try to get off a CS, this will make him pop unstoppable... let it end then, icy ray>RoE>choke>Ice Knife & pray that did the job & his soulstone isnt up...
Pretty much the same for a GF, just try to get behind him so he cant block... truth be told, if I'm heading to a node & a GF is there... I'll just run away unless I know it is a very weak player... it simply takes too long to take it & you almost always will get another enemy before you can finish him off... I'm better off turning around and going somewhere else...
Again, my general rule is to avoid them (when solo)... even if you manage to kill them, it probably took too long & you are super low on health. I really wish they would implement a dueling feature in this game so I could practice...
There is something close - Brisk Teleport.
But if you have to put R10's in *utility* slots, well, ....
Quick note:
You can't really factor in Bolstered Bark charges as X amount of extra HP since they are consumed whether a hit would have inflicted 2k or 200 damage. That's usually what ends up happening, too.
25k HP is pretty low for a CW in PvP. 35k isn't happening without a very specific sort of defensive setup, but you can still push 30k without making radical changes in your equipment.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
You know people inspect each other, including gateway?
If they get to know you, the 1st thing they will say is: "Focus the low HP CW, I know he's only 25K HP."
And people consider low HP ANYTHING below 30K in PvP.
You will die, and die often.
Being dead=0 DPS.
Classical.
Best PvP CWs in the game are close to 40K HP (no, not kidding you) if they didn't change gear. Even myself with suboptimal tiefling with 17 max Con can go up to 36.5+K HP.
No offense, but pugs don't mean about nothing.
Why?
Cause they are clueless.
In a premade, you will be focused first, and sadly not even 35K HP won't save you in the end. But at least you might end up with decent k/d ratios (1:1 or so in balanced matches maybe) instead of what happens if you're low HP (1:20 k/d if not worse :P)
No offense, but premades don't mean anything here.
Why? Because the majority of pvp matches are pug vs pug, or premade roflstomping pug. The vast majority of matches can and will involve pug teammates in some fashion.
Pugging is the majority of the pvp involved in this game, and so because of that, you expect randomness. There is versatility in MMO's like this. Yea, there may be someone always running with a specific build, but youll rarely run into the same person twice in a whole day of pvp'ing, unless you partied with them.
Please be my guest, I enjoy meeting people like this in PvP a lot. Pretty tired of wasting 4-5-6 rotations on all R10 BiS GWFs that never die, sometimes stomping on people that die in a single rotation is relaxing.
I totally understand, and I used to feel much the same way, but when you run into players who are well geared and know their stuff, you appreciate the additional survivability.
Being bursty as a CW is just plain fun, and it's the kind of performance that the class seems optimized for, but as pers3phone notes in this thread, CW burst potential is severely blunted against geared targets. Most classes have mechanics that allow them escape, mitigate, prevent, or completely nullify your big hits if they know how to use them properly, and being able to survive long enough to continue the fight or at least to receive relief from team mates can make a huge difference in competitive matches.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I see you added a picture.
This looks like a promising start up there.
Some notes:
- you miss regen. You need lots and lots of it, 10%+ ideally, but more is welcomed.
- 450 recovery wep set bonus is not essential. Look up Sylvan Talisman for HP+Regen offhand
- you have enough offensive stats. Wear regen /HP rings.
- there are Tenacity blue belts with 900 HP
- there are blue Regen/Tenacity amulets or even a profound one with some HP on it and defensive slots
- I'd rather have full set of gear not 2/2
- the PvP artifact has regen
- points from Cha can be moved to Con (probably not possible as it might be maxed at 17) or Dex for some deflect
BTW the first picture with Magelord 2/2, don't even think about that, bad idea
TR, if I can manage to time his opening into a dodge and get him dotted up I can win and or get him to run away.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Even well geared CW are not going to last long running in rambo style!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
I will get higher in gear and stats as I just got my first 2 boons yesterday so ive much to go.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
- you don't die in one rotation
- you survive enough for help to arrive
- you survive enough to make it to a pot, and kite GWF/TR off point many times. Fortunately for us CWs and out teams, quite a few of the melee people are quite stupid and would go mad and chase for a long while CWs off points even if they're red, just to get a kill. Be my guest guys, I'll win the match, you'll get your kill, everybody happy.
- you are able to contest for a bit vs dangerous enemies such as (any other class but DC) while praying for help. At 25K HP, you contest for exactly 3 dodges, cause you cannot tank anything
- your regen ticks for a lot more than low HP CW. I get almost 2K regen ticks on low life, and other better equipped CWs get 2200 or so. At 25K HP and the usual 1000-ish regen, you get what, 700-800 regen ticks?
Don't think that with DR, regen is less important. CW has the opportunity to attack from a distance sometimes, and you will heal for a lot when not under DR.
All in all, you lose what? 5% DPS?
As I said. The more low HP glass cannon CWs I face, the happier I am. So yeah, ignore being tanky
1. Wait for Mod 3
2. Get as many Zen companions as you can with awesome CC resist/interrupt bonuses
3. Win
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
A little trick I learned in PvP (and it works for PvE as well).Don't port backwards away from the GWF/GF.Rather go forward through them.This will put you behind them and in most cases confuses them it seems.Also leaves them open to attack.Use at wills on the GWF to test is unstoppable is down and then slap choke on,then bust out RoE for the debuff.Same for the GF,though the take a bit longer to run guard down.Though RoF will run it down and should slow the GF enough to keep you alive.
Aside from my monkey in the middle trick.PvP gear helps with alot.High HP always good for both PvP and PvE.And if all else fails run like heck.
I chase CWs & HRs off node when they're low on health because CC is the bane of my existence. I'm not looking for moar kills, I'm looking to rid myself of being either frozen to the ground, rooted, caught in a gigantic red AOE that hurts me or suspended in mid air. Once squishy is dead the real warrior's can get stuck in.
All fine just make sure you don't chase decent CWs that might kite you for long minutes and even kill you in a lucky burst - especially if the node is red and match is close. You really don't wanna know how many teams I faced with monster GWFs that preferred at one point to just stop capping and contesting and go for a CW chase all around the map while the points were red. You shouldn't do this even if it's a certain loss, it makes one look bad as a player when they leave red points uncontested - especially as a tanky melee that is able to do the job.
Ideally, you should stay on point, cap, and ONLY chase CW if they are really low and you know that they are dead if you land a prone. Or stay on the margin of the point and throw a FLS to know the CW prone so they won't freecast on you.
Once the node is blue&capped, GG, now it's time to murder the CW.
BTW a half-decent CW will step on point as well if you're too close to capping, and from then on you should be able to kill it pretty fast, the range advantage being no more.
It is a little trickier to give myself an imposed barrier in Rivenscar but in Hotenow I will chase to the pillars and no further and I only chase if I know landing Bull Charge + Anvil or Lunging will wreck the target. I prefer to chase if I have Anvil to follow Bull Charge as once below 25% Anvil doubles its damage.