I think where there is some confusion concerning Delzoun is that originally Delzoun was a Dwarf Kingdom that did intend trade with Netherese. However, for a long time now (in FR time) Delzoun has been used to basically mean Dwarven decent.
unless I am just crazy and don't know what I am talking about...
The Delzoun were an Empire of Shield Dwarves. Everything I said stands. Delzoun NEVER meant dwarven descent. Some dwarves that are descended from the Delzoun dwarves use "Delzoun" as a title and part of their name.
At its height two thousand years ago in the Year of Oaths Forsaken, the Empire of Netheril was the largest human realm in the northwest quadrant of Faerun...and Delzoun stood directly on its northwest border. Pray tell, with whom should these "Delzoun lackeys" have been dealing? You see Illefarn, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Evereska, and Cormanthyr all on Netheril's borders, so why didn't the Elves simply smash the "evil" Netherese? Possibly because they were also trading with them...and feared the consequences of a war that would have devastated millions of square miles of the Realms and killed just as many innocents. Your dismissal of the rights of the heirs of Delzoun smacks of race hatred and equivocation, and both would be set right by a good dwarven hammer.
Your grasp of Realms history rivals that of Volo's, and your "facts" as well. Neverwinter is home to hundreds, if not thousands, of Netherese refugees who would not be slaves to the bleak will of Shar. While I agree with you that the Shadovar are the very pinnacle of evil extant in the world today, I would suggest that broad generalizations are not worth the ink with which they are scrawled.
(OOC)
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You gave yours, I gave mine...but the Grand History of the Realms backs me up.
You are actually wrong and the history of the Realms does not back you up. I do not even understand what you are trying to say. The facts are:
a) The ancient Netheril Empire's magocracy was corrupt and power hungry. By definition evil.
b) The Delzoun dwarves were their direct allies, doing their bidding. They did not only trade with them as you seem to think. Even their citadels depended on the Netherese magic.
c) While the elves of Illefarn were trading with the Netherese as you claim (around -2350 at Old Owlbear Well outpost the Netheril Empire had established), they never trusted them or allied with them like the Delzoun. Nor ever did they take orders or acted as a meatshield for the them like the Delzoun were doing.
d) The Netherese focus on Shar is only Shade Enclave related. The ancient Netherese did not not only worship Shar but also Moander, Kozah, Tyche, Targus, Mystyl, Jergal, Selune etc).
e) You talk about Netherese refuges in Neverwinter. What refuges? From Shade Enclave? There's no one there that is not a Sharite. Or are you talking about human Netherese refuges somehow surviving since the Year of Sundered Webs, -339 up to 1400ish that Neverwinter is in timewise? The ancient Netherese refuges after the Karsus' Avatar spell, fled to..guess where? The Delzoun citadels. They did not go to Neverwinter, which at the time was a small settlement. They fled to their only allies, the Delzoun via the Low Road tunnels.
f) At the Year of Humbling Havens (-333) the Eaerlanni moon and wood elves take in some Netherese refuges in Ascalhorn, forcing the Netherese though to stop practicing their "evil magic". Forcing them to learn elven magic again. Going as far as to kill or banish any Netherese, practicing Netherese magic and not elven. These are the same elves that first taught magic to the Netherese at about -3840.
So what exactly does the Grand History back you up for and basically what exactly are you saying?
That the Delzoun were not lackeys of the Netherese? History says they were.
That the ancient Netherese Empire was not evil? History also says it was.
That Netherese refuges survive to the current date and they're not evil? This is absurd. The only Netherese that survive to the present day are the Shadovar and that is because at the time Karsus cast Karsus' Avatar, the Shade enclave was teleported to the plane of Shadow. The ancient refuges were absorbed/integrated and we're many generations later. The states of Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath that Mystra saved were also absorbed/integrated (those three states were also the most decent of the Empire).
Because I seriously do not understand...
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jimdenMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited March 2014
If possible my mains will do a version of "Clint Eastwood" in "For a Few Dollars More" or if you like the modernized version, "Bruce Willis" in "Last Man Standing". Where the leads play the two sides against each other for the biggest paydays.
My alts will pick sides, ground-pounders to the "Townies" and the spell users to the "Brothers."
Btw I almost forgot. There is one ancient Netherese that still survives to the present day (apart from the Shadovar). The demilich Wulgreth. Although he was killed by Galaeron Nihmedu just prior to Shade Enclave's return (1371), his phylactery was the Karsestone which is now in the hands of Shar. So technically Wulgreth is still alive
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
What do you want to know about them? The Ten Towns are not really a faction in Faerun, they're just a bunch of allied towns in Icewind Dale led by a single council. The Arcane Brotherhood is a huge subject though heh. Anything in particular you want to know?
EDIT: Although due to their size they should probably be called villages and not towns:p
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The Delzoun were an Empire of Shield Dwarves. Everything I said stands. Delzoun NEVER meant dwarven descent. Some dwarves that are descended from the Delzoun dwarves use "Delzoun" as a title and part of their name.
You are actually wrong and the history of the Realms does not back you up. I do not even understand what you are trying to say. The facts are:
a) The ancient Netheril Empire's magocracy was corrupt and power hungry. By definition evil.
b) The Delzoun dwarves were their direct allies, doing their bidding. They did not only trade with them as you seem to think. Even their citadels depended on the Netherese magic.
c) While the elves of Illefarn were trading with the Netherese as you claim (around -2350 at Old Owlbear Well outpost the Netheril Empire had established), they never trusted them or allied with them like the Delzoun. Nor ever did they take orders or acted as a meatshield for the them like the Delzoun were doing.
d) The Netherese focus on Shar is only Shade Enclave related. The ancient Netherese did not not only worship Shar but also Moander, Kozah, Tyche, Targus, Mystyl, Jergal, Selune etc).
e) You talk about Netherese refuges in Neverwinter. What refuges? From Shade Enclave? There's no one there that is not a Sharite. Or are you talking about human Netherese refuges somehow surviving since the Year of Sundered Webs, -339 up to 1400ish that Neverwinter is in timewise? The ancient Netherese refuges after the Karsus' Avatar spell, fled to..guess where? The Delzoun citadels. They did not go to Neverwinter, which at the time was a small settlement. They fled to their only allies, the Delzoun via the Low Road tunnels.
f) At the Year of Humbling Havens (-333) the Eaerlanni moon and wood elves take in some Netherese refuges in Ascalhorn, forcing the Netherese though to stop practicing their "evil magic". Forcing them to learn elven magic again. Going as far as to kill or banish any Netherese, practicing Netherese magic and not elven. These are the same elves that first taught magic to the Netherese at about -3840.
So what exactly does the Grand History back you up for and basically what exactly are you saying?
That the Delzoun were not lackeys of the Netherese? History says they were.
That the ancient Netherese Empire was not evil? History also says it was.
That Netherese refuges survive to the current date and they're not evil? This is absurd. The only Netherese that survive to the present day are the Shadovar and that is because at the time Karsus cast Karsus' Avatar, the Shade enclave was teleported to the plane of Shadow. The ancient refuges were absorbed/integrated and we're many generations later. The states of Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath that Mystra saved were also absorbed/integrated (those three states were also the most decent of the Empire).
Because I seriously do not understand...
My alts will pick sides, ground-pounders to the "Townies" and the spell users to the "Brothers."
I love you, marry me.
In all seriousness, you are a true loremaster!
Lol! Thanks:)
Btw I almost forgot. There is one ancient Netherese that still survives to the present day (apart from the Shadovar). The demilich Wulgreth. Although he was killed by Galaeron Nihmedu just prior to Shade Enclave's return (1371), his phylactery was the Karsestone which is now in the hands of Shar. So technically Wulgreth is still alive
EDIT: Although due to their size they should probably be called villages and not towns:p