There is no way this could be true. Please Dev, get one lvl 60 HR and go into pvp against any half-minded people and use FS, see if it is working like you said. Anything (prone,dazed,control,etc) as everyone said already can cancel/bug Fox Shifting and/or maybe just dodge? What happens? Bug out too and enters on Cooldown.
Everytime I read one of the dev posts on balancing, a little part of me dies. Wrong info on their own game, seeming lack of understanding on what damage numbers things produce, seeming lack of understanding of play methods.
This change is horrible and needs to be scrapped. Keep the thorn strike buff and lose the nerf.
And I haven't even touched my hr in probably 2 months.
Exactly.
It's almost as if or maybe it is, that they just come up with the descriptions of the encounters and make it do what they want it to do, but do not even bother going into the game to see if it works the way they wanted it to.
The fact that the dev is claiming that Fox Shift does one thing when in reality it does not proves this very statement.
Hunter Ranger Aimed Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 10%. Forest Ghost: The animation and visual effects of this power now play properly. Forestwalk: This power now properly has a buff icon. Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5. Hindering Shot: This power's tooltip now properly mentions that it has charges. Marauder's Escape: This power no longer grants Action Points while out of combat. Predatory Action: This power now properly affects Seismic Shot. Rain of Arrows: This power now properly prompts the ranger to draw a bow. Rain of Swords: Damage numbers now properly show up from bleed ticks. Rapid Shot: The visual effects now consistently play when using this power. Rapid Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been slightly reduced. Seismic Shot: This power now has a targeting reticule. Split Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 30%. Split the Sky: The return damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 60%. Thorn Ward: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 20%. Thorn Ward: This power's duration has been reduced to 4 seconds per rank, down from 6 seconds. Many powers that didn't properly trigger certain effects now do.
Well now that I've calmed down for a little bit the devs need some major feedback as most of these changes are just horrible.
Aimed Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 10%.
This is absolutely uncalled for. It produces high damage but has a major downside with how easily it's interrupted. If you nerf the damage you need to make it where it can't be interrupted.
Fox Shift: This power can now hit the same target twice.
Fox Shift: The number of bounces this power can make is 3, down from 5.
As mentioned above this power only hits hard in pvp vs the ungeared.
Rapid Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been slightly reduced.
completely uncalled for as the damage from rapid shot was mediocre at best.
Split Shot: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 30%.
This is the bread and butter of the HR. Unless you plan on giving every encounter major buffs this will kill the hr in pve as the damage will no longer be competitive at cap at all.
Split the Sky: The return damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 60%.
Another currently great pve power that actually requires teamwork for the best effect. This power combined with split shot is what lets hr's do enough damage to be worth a party slot. If you nerf the two of these together you will create a class that will only hurt groups to include in the dungeon runs because it's damage will be so slow that it will slow the group and be a liability.
Thorn Ward: The damage dealt by this power has been reduced by 20%.
The damage from this was only ok. Nerfing thorn ward will however make it very poor. This will lead to it being as dead of a power as electric shot.
Doubt the devs will listen, this power is going the way of cold steel hurricane, on the never use category.
Yep. As it stands Fox Shift is the only reason to even consider going into melee with an HR and its ranged half is a total loss. If the damage is going to get cut the skill will be off my bar in a Waterdeep minute.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
Those changes were made before ranger hit live servers.
I believe he was just listing them as a history of changes made to the class.
foot -> mouth
0
adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2014
I play a HR in PvP by myself and the only thing I understand is that fox shift had to be nerfed slightly. It was in fact doing a bit too much damage.
Edit: apparently the changes listed here are outdated...
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited March 2014
Thank you for the time you spent giving us a glimpse behind the curtain gentlemancrush!
While changes to the ways powers work, even if it is to make it work as the toolkit states, is always going to be a hot topic it is really appreciated that you let us know about changes coming around the corner.
This is ... somewhat underwhelming. Am I to understand that Fox Shift will now hit a single target only once instead of multiple times, and that the first hit will be boosted against that target by 30% while the damage from the other two is simply lost?
Exactly what do you want me to use Fox Shift for in PvE, then? The damage against multiple targets was never great, don't let anyone tell you it was. If the single-target damage is now being cut in less than half, I may as well start my search for a new power to replace it.
Here's hoping that Pathfinder has something good for Hybrids in it.
Lol without Fox Shift the way it was I no longer can find an strong reason to remain as a combat HR. So sad, I had lots of fun with it. Think I'll have to get a GWF as it seems that's what they want us to do.
Yes I was Char, sorry was pretty hot. I mean when is enough. Devs, if you dont want everyone melee/combat spec, there are better ways to do it. Unless you dont have the creativity to think that way. Should ask your playerbase, Im sure they have ideas.
ok so its pretty much a straight nerf to HR... now explain to me why every other class have encounters that hit 5x more than currently fox does?
being untargetable in the duration is stupid reasoning..cause its not real. it seems u ve no idea about how HR actually works...as people have mentioned before FS can be stopped... i really dont see any reason for that possible FS change but seriously u gotta reconsider ur thinking....it barely scratches equally geared people... even CWs dont seem to suffer a lot from it...
with the same thinking Lashing blade should do 1/3 of the damage it does now or Ice Knife shouldnt be able to crit for 20k+ ...
Thorn buffs are joke... just leave Fox the way it is...
too much doom and gloom in this thread. fox shift has been bugged and an OP single-target encounter for a long time, im glad to see it is finally being fixed and will be working as it was intended. a rogue daily ability on an HR encounter was never intended.
too much doom and gloom in this thread. fox shift has been bugged and an OP single-target encounter for a long time, im glad to see it is finally being fixed and will be working as it was intended. a rogue daily ability on an HR encounter was never intended.
You must be joking right? Why is it bugged and OP when it does on avrg same damage as lashing blade on TR? Dont even try to compare Fox Shifting with Shocking Execution/Whirlwind of Blades or even Bloodbath, cause those does alot more damage and cant be avoided, unlike FS that can be ****ed up with a single dodge.
too much doom and gloom in this thread. fox shift has been bugged and an OP single-target encounter for a long time, im glad to see it is finally being fixed and will be working as it was intended. a rogue daily ability on an HR encounter was never intended.
Who said it was never intended.. Do you work for Cryptic? Are you a Dev? I mean if you look at the history of any Ranger class, they are typically high damage dealers. Let me know where you get your false information from. This game is getting ridiculous. If they want you to only run archery, why make 3 different tree's.
2 major titles are quickly coming up and many people are already looking to move on. Just because its a free game doesnt mean you can't lose playerbase, especially the ones that like to spend money. Its a unneeded change, they should spend their time looking at ways to improve all classes, but in the case of the HR, start looking at ways to make Nature and Archery more viable so people are more diverse with their builds and in pvp/pve. FS is hardly overpowered, its just better than the other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they give us. When is the last time anyone slotted CSH or Hawkeye that have played the game long enough. Not many that I know of.
Yeah that kind of put me off too. At its fundamental, the skill worked like a mini Bloodbath. Can hit one target multiple times by itself, or hit multiple targets for each hit. (except in this case only once, or split between if less than 3 at its current)
The difference is...
Bloodbath is a daily.
If you want Fox to have Bloodbath fuctionality, move it to daily and have it cost a full AP.
do not compare the two otherwise.
_______________
PS: Love how people keep crying and saying Im running to Wildstar or ESO... like some idle threat.
I plan on playing both NW and ESO...
I highly doubt the Dev's care if you run off to Wildstar, judging that games graphics and gameplay, I dont envision people sticking around long there, as some of the beta testers have already proven.
PSS: Thank you for the Fox nerf. it was way to OP at End Game PvP
too much doom and gloom in this thread. fox shift has been bugged and an OP single-target encounter for a long time, im glad to see it is finally being fixed and will be working as it was intended. a rogue daily ability on an HR encounter was never intended.
give me 1 reason u think fox is OP... and compare it with any other encounter any other class has...have u ever played vs or as HR in pvp? i hope u re not a 9k person that just got 1 shotted by some 16k HRs and cry about it
I wonder if I live to see the day we don't majorly get nerfs to things that don't necessarily need to be addressed but buffs to those that really need some work.
I wonder if I live to see the day we don't majorly get nerfs to things that don't necessarily need to be addressed but buffs to those that really need some work.
Congratulations! today is that day- as you'll read in the thread Thorn Strike is being buffed, likely among other things as yet unmentioned.
= stealth buff? At least stealth reworking is coming because good HR was really the only counter to stealth TR 1v1 if played very well and this move was a big part of that not only for the stealth targeting but that sheer single target damage capability. Even then it would still be hard to come up on top as HR. Then again, I know its been stated the game isn't going to be designed around 1v1 balancing, but I am glad they are reworking stealth some to compensate for how powerful it has been and is still becoming.
I appreciate that the devs try to improve the game - don't get me wrong there. But I disagree with the way they approach it.
Having been on both the receiving and giving end of Fox Shift many, many times I dare to say that it does not need those suggested changes.
With your feedback we identified a bug where you weren't getting the immunity behavior we wanted out of Fox Shift. We have made it more explicit now. When you activate Fox Shift you will now be immune to damage and CC effects, rather than just making you unavailable to target for new effects via a teleport. This will make Fox Shift better fit the "slippery quick attack" feel and give rangers another way to avoid incoming effects. You will no longer be CC'd out and can use the power to avoid incoming effects while dealing damage. Hopefully this will be in the first Mod 3 build that goes to Preview, but if not it will be in the second.
With your feedback we identified a bug where you weren't getting the immunity behavior we wanted out of Fox Shift. We have made it more explicit now. When you activate Fox Shift you will now be immune to damage and CC effects, rather than just making you unavailable to target for new effects via a teleport. This will make Fox Shift better fit the "slippery quick attack" feel and give rangers another way to avoid incoming effects. You will no longer be CC'd out and can use the power to avoid incoming effects while dealing damage. Hopefully this will be in the first Mod 3 build that goes to Preview, but if not it will be in the second.
Thanks for all your feedback!
Thank you for the fast response regarding the immunity, but this skill does not need a rework whatsoever. Top-end pvp is BALANCED as it is ( Good Job btw with Tenacity), just ask all of the top tier players. This is a very unjustified nerf imo and needs to be VERY carefully thought out. If there is not a single-target nuke in the new paragon path, then you have just killed HR in pvp. Fox Shift was the only single target nuke that we have and without it, and no new nuke in the new paragon tree, this will cripple HR. However, if you made Fox Shift hit for 50%-60% more damage then it would be just fine if it only hit each target one time.
With your feedback we identified a bug where you weren't getting the immunity behavior we wanted out of Fox Shift. We have made it more explicit now. When you activate Fox Shift you will now be immune to damage and CC effects, rather than just making you unavailable to target for new effects via a teleport. This will make Fox Shift better fit the "slippery quick attack" feel and give rangers another way to avoid incoming effects. You will no longer be CC'd out and can use the power to avoid incoming effects while dealing damage. Hopefully this will be in the first Mod 3 build that goes to Preview, but if not it will be in the second.
Thanks for all your feedback!
We appreciate you communicating with us more and taking feedback into account. Hopefully this isn't as rare as coal wards dropping.
Im still going to say that the dmg/target nerf is unnecessary as it is our bread n butter. But good start. More options, less taking away.
Thank you for the fast response regarding the immunity, but this skill does not need a rework whatsoever. Top-end pvp is BALANCED as it is ( Good Job btw with Tenacity), just ask all of the top tier players. This is a very unjustified nerf imo and needs to be VERY carefully thought out. If there is not a single-target nuke in the new paragon path, then you have just killed HR in pvp. Fox Shift was the only single target nuke that we have and without it, and no new nuke in the new paragon tree, this will cripple HR. However, if you made Fox Shift hit for 50%-60% more damage then it would be just fine if it only hit each target one time.
To provide a little more clarity on this change, I want to mention a few things. First, this change has PVE repercussions (and PVP repercussions at tiers that are not the top tier) as well, so that is part of why this is happening. It currently does the same total damage each time you push the button if you have 3 targets as you did when it used to hit one target 4 times. Second, we aren't really happy with Fox Shift being the go to single target burst power, and would like to explore buffs in other places to make some more options for that viable (this also has the side effect of making Ranger DPS feel much more sustained rather than bursty, which we think feels pretty good overall). The changes to Thorn strike are a good first step, and we are considering a couple of other possible changes to several different powers, but all of those are up in the air. Finally, there are misconceptions about the Thorn Strike changes. First, the damage bonus will increase as the target gets less and less health. Meaning as a fight goes on you will start hitting harder and harder with it. And because it activates so much faster now and has a longer reach and wider area it is *much* harder to avoid now. And the bonus you get from the target's HP going down is much more substantial so it will just feel better and better to land that as the fight goes on. This makes carrying Thorn Ward and Thorn Strike much easier to justify and should make them a much more viable option on your encounter bar. Also, Forest Meditation is getting fixed so that at R3 you will still retain your R2 bonus, so that is a nice bug fix just to make things feel a little better across the board.
Would like to see changes to Stormwarden Paragon Powers to make them more viable and regarding FM, some way its combat effective or the buff lasts a minute after cast. I dont believe thats the case now.
I understand you have a vision but as it is right now, burst damage is all we have, and not to mention, thats how so many other classes are.. we seem less bursty than other classes. Id like to see a range of power changes first than revisit the idea of nerfing FS.
Fox shift is fine as it is, please nerf constricting instead which is the main reason for the single target burst anyways because it can lock down targets so well.
They already made roots useless, nerfing our stun only makes us less viable. As it is now, not many HR's use roots anymore.. so another wasted power point.
Comments
I dont even know what else to say...
Exactly.
It's almost as if or maybe it is, that they just come up with the descriptions of the encounters and make it do what they want it to do, but do not even bother going into the game to see if it works the way they wanted it to.
The fact that the dev is claiming that Fox Shift does one thing when in reality it does not proves this very statement.
So appalling. It really is.
Those changes were made before ranger hit live servers.
I believe he was just listing them as a history of changes made to the class.
Yep. As it stands Fox Shift is the only reason to even consider going into melee with an HR and its ranged half is a total loss. If the damage is going to get cut the skill will be off my bar in a Waterdeep minute.
foot -> mouth
Edit: apparently the changes listed here are outdated...
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
While changes to the ways powers work, even if it is to make it work as the toolkit states, is always going to be a hot topic it is really appreciated that you let us know about changes coming around the corner.
Exactly what do you want me to use Fox Shift for in PvE, then? The damage against multiple targets was never great, don't let anyone tell you it was. If the single-target damage is now being cut in less than half, I may as well start my search for a new power to replace it.
Here's hoping that Pathfinder has something good for Hybrids in it.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
being untargetable in the duration is stupid reasoning..cause its not real. it seems u ve no idea about how HR actually works...as people have mentioned before FS can be stopped... i really dont see any reason for that possible FS change but seriously u gotta reconsider ur thinking....it barely scratches equally geared people... even CWs dont seem to suffer a lot from it...
with the same thinking Lashing blade should do 1/3 of the damage it does now or Ice Knife shouldnt be able to crit for 20k+ ...
Thorn buffs are joke... just leave Fox the way it is...
You must be joking right? Why is it bugged and OP when it does on avrg same damage as lashing blade on TR? Dont even try to compare Fox Shifting with Shocking Execution/Whirlwind of Blades or even Bloodbath, cause those does alot more damage and cant be avoided, unlike FS that can be ****ed up with a single dodge.
Who said it was never intended.. Do you work for Cryptic? Are you a Dev? I mean if you look at the history of any Ranger class, they are typically high damage dealers. Let me know where you get your false information from. This game is getting ridiculous. If they want you to only run archery, why make 3 different tree's.
2 major titles are quickly coming up and many people are already looking to move on. Just because its a free game doesnt mean you can't lose playerbase, especially the ones that like to spend money. Its a unneeded change, they should spend their time looking at ways to improve all classes, but in the case of the HR, start looking at ways to make Nature and Archery more viable so people are more diverse with their builds and in pvp/pve. FS is hardly overpowered, its just better than the other <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they give us. When is the last time anyone slotted CSH or Hawkeye that have played the game long enough. Not many that I know of.
The difference is...
Bloodbath is a daily.
If you want Fox to have Bloodbath fuctionality, move it to daily and have it cost a full AP.
do not compare the two otherwise.
_______________
PS: Love how people keep crying and saying Im running to Wildstar or ESO... like some idle threat.
I plan on playing both NW and ESO...
I highly doubt the Dev's care if you run off to Wildstar, judging that games graphics and gameplay, I dont envision people sticking around long there, as some of the beta testers have already proven.
PSS: Thank you for the Fox nerf. it was way to OP at End Game PvP
give me 1 reason u think fox is OP... and compare it with any other encounter any other class has...have u ever played vs or as HR in pvp? i hope u re not a 9k person that just got 1 shotted by some 16k HRs and cry about it
Congratulations! today is that day- as you'll read in the thread Thorn Strike is being buffed, likely among other things as yet unmentioned.
Thorn Strike is being buffed? It needs huge buff and bug fix to be viable one.
I appreciate that the devs try to improve the game - don't get me wrong there. But I disagree with the way they approach it.
Having been on both the receiving and giving end of Fox Shift many, many times I dare to say that it does not need those suggested changes.
Thanks for all your feedback!
Thank you for the fast response regarding the immunity, but this skill does not need a rework whatsoever. Top-end pvp is BALANCED as it is ( Good Job btw with Tenacity), just ask all of the top tier players. This is a very unjustified nerf imo and needs to be VERY carefully thought out. If there is not a single-target nuke in the new paragon path, then you have just killed HR in pvp. Fox Shift was the only single target nuke that we have and without it, and no new nuke in the new paragon tree, this will cripple HR. However, if you made Fox Shift hit for 50%-60% more damage then it would be just fine if it only hit each target one time.
We appreciate you communicating with us more and taking feedback into account. Hopefully this isn't as rare as coal wards dropping.
Im still going to say that the dmg/target nerf is unnecessary as it is our bread n butter. But good start. More options, less taking away.
To provide a little more clarity on this change, I want to mention a few things. First, this change has PVE repercussions (and PVP repercussions at tiers that are not the top tier) as well, so that is part of why this is happening. It currently does the same total damage each time you push the button if you have 3 targets as you did when it used to hit one target 4 times. Second, we aren't really happy with Fox Shift being the go to single target burst power, and would like to explore buffs in other places to make some more options for that viable (this also has the side effect of making Ranger DPS feel much more sustained rather than bursty, which we think feels pretty good overall). The changes to Thorn strike are a good first step, and we are considering a couple of other possible changes to several different powers, but all of those are up in the air. Finally, there are misconceptions about the Thorn Strike changes. First, the damage bonus will increase as the target gets less and less health. Meaning as a fight goes on you will start hitting harder and harder with it. And because it activates so much faster now and has a longer reach and wider area it is *much* harder to avoid now. And the bonus you get from the target's HP going down is much more substantial so it will just feel better and better to land that as the fight goes on. This makes carrying Thorn Ward and Thorn Strike much easier to justify and should make them a much more viable option on your encounter bar. Also, Forest Meditation is getting fixed so that at R3 you will still retain your R2 bonus, so that is a nice bug fix just to make things feel a little better across the board.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
I understand you have a vision but as it is right now, burst damage is all we have, and not to mention, thats how so many other classes are.. we seem less bursty than other classes. Id like to see a range of power changes first than revisit the idea of nerfing FS.
They already made roots useless, nerfing our stun only makes us less viable. As it is now, not many HR's use roots anymore.. so another wasted power point.