3 Man CN, legit fullclear.

chemboy613 · March 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU4xf6ZmZUE

We probably went a bit slow for the camera but nano and I didn't die once, I didn't even use a potion.

I think the coordination and quality of play here is very high.

Makaria Fiendline (me) - 16.6k, Mof/Thaum. P.Terror/P.SF/SW
Nano - 17k MoF/Thaum, GPF/P.Bark/SW
Orianna - 16.5k SS/Thaum, P.Vorp/LSF/HV

Enjoy!

mconosrep · March 2014

Gratz, but not that much of a surprise to see it was a 3 CW team.

Nice choice of complementary weapon enchants BTW.

rashylewizz · March 2014

Oh hey a non-exploit completion of CN!

Nice change of pace

grandinata · March 2014

hello,
how much recovery do you have?

ryugasirius · March 2014

mconosrep wrote: »

Gratz, but not that much of a surprise to see it was a 3 CW team.

Nice choice of complementary weapon enchants BTW.

I'd have to see a 3 TR or 3 GF team to be actually impressed... :P

tundrrabloom · March 2014

Very nice!

chemboy613 · March 2014

19 wis (campfire), 3376 recovery, legendary book of the dead (5% ap gain) I have HP from sharandar, not the AP gain, so 34.8% AP gain + 5%

It might not be totally accurate, my stats seem to change a little bit randomly (can't figure out why)

I ran conduit/shard/icy/steal time this run, so the rotation is also good for AP gain. I also have 5 points in Fight On.

Yeah, we wanted to show an actual fullclear. I also think the playstyle is very good if someone is trying to learn CW.

stah01 · March 2014

Congrats I guess. But I think this is truly a shame that these encounters can be trio'd by 1 class. Tells me that CW's are still overpowered and the devs arent really looking at balancing classes. These encounters should be about bringing a range of class types, which is common in almost any other mmo.

I'm not crying nerf but this does point out that there are major gameplay flaws along with quality of life issues in this game that need to be addressed. Instead we got tenacity (sorry had to say it).

PS - Also am not saying what you did was wrong.. you are just using the system as the devs built it and nothing wrong with that. So again, congrats, in its own way its a cool accomplishment.

chemboy613 · March 2014

well, if you think about it, we are all over 16k, have builds that are perfectly tweaked and optimized, have 5 epic pets that are tweaked and optimized, and then we got on raidcall and talked our way through the dungeon to make it a perfect run. At that level of skill, gear, and coordination, it should be easy.

That said, we have definitely outgrown the content. I am hoping that Mod 3 has a farmable dungeon!

The problem you are bringing up here is singificant - this whole dungeon from begining to end is about doing AoE damage, which means non-AOE classes are of less use. Couple that with the fact no other classes have half the control abilities and this happens.

That said, both nano and I have done full CN clears being the only CW. It's harder, but still doable. You can see the videos of her on her youtube channel.

I also know lotus did 5GWF (that was a fun vid XD), but we're not going to see 5TR or 5 GF or (god forbid) 5DC parties anytime soon.

mconosrep · March 2014

stah01 wrote: »

Congrats I guess. But I think this is truly a shame that these encounters can be trio'd by 1 class. Tells me that CW's are still overpowered and the devs arent really looking at balancing classes. These encounters should be about bringing a range of class types, which is common in almost any other mmo.

I'm not crying nerf but this does point out that there are major gameplay flaws along with quality of life issues in this game that need to be addressed. Instead we got tenacity (sorry had to say it).

PS - Also am not saying what you did was wrong.. you are just using the system as the devs built it and nothing wrong with that. So again, congrats, in its own way its a cool accomplishment.

I doubt think there is any endgame player who doesn't realise just how brokenly OP the CW class is in PvE. But these sort of runs are generally done using the best choices available so CWs were the logical class to use. Of course that, in itself, tells you all you need to know about PvE class balance....

nanners · March 2014

I think the term "Brokenly OP" needs to be applied carefully.

The purpose of the video is to show how important coordiation and group synergy is in a run not the fact CWs are OP.

I believe it's because of the nature of how dungeon works atm, i.e. the need to control 100000 mobs, CW is the most (if not only) well-designed class to serve this. It's in the name.

So instead of crying about verfs, DEV needs to focus on class balancing, gives each one the means for efficient runs.

mconosrep · March 2014

nanomidgy wrote: »

I think the term "Brokenly OP" needs to be applied carefully.

The purpose of the video is to show how important coordiation and group synergy is in a run not the fact CWs are OP.

I believe it's because of the nature of how dungeon works atm, i.e. the need to control 100000 mobs, CW is the most (if not only) well-designed class to serve this. It's in the name.

So instead of crying about verfs, DEV needs to focus on class balancing, gives each one the means for efficient runs.

The purpose of the video was, of course, to show how important coordination and group synergy is in a run but it did also clearly demonstrate how borken, err, better suited CW are for dungeons than other classes. And not just for this particular dungeon, but pretty much every single one in fact.

The Devs have clearly decided that their vision of dungeons is based on mass adds, so the most important factor is AOE killing speed. So saying that "the DEV needs to focus on class balancing, gives each one the means for efficient runs" basically amounts to giving every class CW-style AOE capabilities. Whether you want to see it as CWs being too good or other classes too weak, comes to the same thing really. Either way we have 3 classes that are pretty much totally eclipsed right now....

morsitans · March 2014

Well, no. They could also change monster balance and behaviour to favour a more mixed class composition.

howitzer001 · March 2014

You know something's seriously wrong with a game when you have to put "legit clear" in the title of a thread and most people know what the person is referring to.

Cryptic, fix 'yo ****.

mconosrep · March 2014

morsitans wrote: »

Well, no. They could also change monster balance and behaviour to favour a more mixed class composition.

They could, but based on their past history with the last 14 Epic Dungeons, I don't think anyone actually thinks that they WILL, at least for the foreseeable future.

rgladiato · March 2014

morsitans wrote: »

Well, no. They could also change monster balance and behaviour to favour a more mixed class composition.

This is why I don't think CW's are OP. When the challenges are best handled by AoE and control then the CW will naturally have the biggest advantage. Makes me wish I could play a good CW but I can't so I stick with other classes.

chemboy613 · March 2014

well, like i said, with this level of skill and gear, things _should_ be easy. We are hardly the only team to pull this off too. I know some friends of mine have done draco 2CW/GWF, 2CW/TR, and probably 2CW/DC.

People complain about "balance" all the time, and I get it. If you do this dungeon with a full team of people who are 11-12k, then you might need someone to tank, someone to heal, someone to DPS, and someone to control, but the game at 12k and the game at 16.5k is not the same game at all.

As i said in other threads, it's my opinion there is a design issue. If they want to throw 20-30 zombies/skeletons/archers/whights the options are 1) good CW play or 2) grossly over geared GWF 3) die.

I am hoping the new dungeons are more like MC - where one CW is plenty and other classes actually have a purpose.

That said, if anyone wants to know how to play a CW, watch the video. Nano, Orianna and I have great control and teamwork. That is more important than whatever class we play.

pointsman · March 2014

Nice video! Two questions:

1. How do you bind something to middle click?
2. Why aren't there any damage numbers appearing in the video?

kobrakai2 · March 2014

Yeah but look how long it took you, I do 2 full runs in that time easily.

Too much control is boring, It's much more fun (and requires more skill) to play without control.

Efficiency > Control.

djarkaan · March 2014

howitzer001 wrote: »

You know something's seriously wrong with a game when you have to put "legit clear" in the title of a thread and most people know what the person is referring to.

Amen to that.
Legit run by legit player here, 60% of you, move along.

frishter · March 2014

kobrakai2 wrote: »

Yeah but look how long it took you, I do 2 full runs in that time easily.

Too much control is boring, It's much more fun (and requires more skill) to play without control.

Efficiency > Control.

When 3 manning it and taking no shortcuts I assume?

iambecks1 · March 2014

kobrakai2 wrote: »

Yeah but look how long it took you, I do 2 full runs in that time easily.

Too much control is boring, It's much more fun (and requires more skill) to play without control.

Efficiency > Control.

Oh sweet , so you gonna post a video of you and two friends doing two full runs in the same time please or is this just a nonsense boast that will never be backed up with actual proof.

mconosrep · March 2014

iambecks1 wrote: »

Oh sweet , so you gonna post a video of you and two friends doing two full runs in the same time please or is this just a nonsense boast that will never be backed up with actual proof.

I don't think he said or even implied how many were in his party.

In any case, as they say, seeing is believing, so a couple of videos of legitimate speed clearing would be nice.

iambecks1 · March 2014

mconosrep wrote: »

I don't think he said or even implied how many were in his party.

In any case, as they say, seeing is believing, so a couple of videos of legitimate speed clearing would be nice.

I know that but if he means he does it in a full party then it's a pointless post , the whole reason the thread exists is to show the OP running CN with just a 3 man party , boasting about doing it twice as fast but meaning with a full party would be stupid lol .

tripsofthrymr · March 2014

3 perma stealth TR's could do it too. There's a video floating around somewhere of a permastealth TR soloing Draco. Took a really long time.

balorin · March 2014

Cool video, but comments about CW op, it makes me laugh.

-Open your dungeon pannel
-Look the GS needed to run Never castle.
-Read the GS of the runners in this video.
-Nevercastle need no real team tactics. (avoid the aoe)

With such a gs and enchants nevercastle is absolutely not a challenge for 3 good CWs knowing what they have to do, and when you see a Tr permastealh with 13-14gs solo the dracolich you are far away about what is a broken class.

Nevercastle is currently not a challenge for rich or old players with the massive GS increase due to module 2 and artifacts.

warpet · March 2014

great post now devs can see how broken op cw are this only proves what i knowed before dc and one more in 3x cw standard team in cn team do nothing and are not needed

auzfire · March 2014

I imagine something that would have actually surprised people would have been if there was a GF in the team, and it actually did anything meaningful.

Encounter design needs to wind up having 2-3 adds that are tough to simply kill, control immune, and have ranged attacks with annoying status effects but otherwise not too much damage. Then the GF could sit in the corner with his 2-3 mates and in so doing prevent the squishies from being rooted/stunned and eating a 30k red zone attack. To be honest - I cant really think of any other way to make that class 'needed' without throwing your hands in the air, and letting them take half damage on top of everything else while generating massive AoE agro from nothing.

So - the need to mass murder millions of mobs means that this video, while no small achievement, is not really a surprise. It is just the way the game is designed.

ryugasirius · March 2014

The zillion minor mobs design for dungeons is definitely broken, as classes with low AoE/CC capabilities take ages to clear a single room while CWs fly through them. That is, basically, because all mobs are pretty much equal, they do damage with minor effects (some easily evitable prone/knockback skills).

If there was more mob variety, other classes would be more useful. I.E:

- More frequent single "miniboss"-type mobs, that are not controllable, fairly fast/leaping/teleporting and dealing some serious damage. TRs would shine against them.
- Anti-mage mobs that have good control resistance, do less damage, but interrupt fairly often, so some threat management and tanking is needed to kill them properly (GFs).
- Static ranged aoe "traps" that do near-lethal damage on a timer and need to be taken care of properly from range - hit-and-run (HRs would be very useful here for their persistent damage skills). Imagine a huge circular room with a fire-pumping machine in the middle, throwing waves of lethal fire in a 100' radius (damage balanced on a 1hit on cloth/leather classes, 2hit on tanky classes) every 6-8 seconds (or whatever is often enough that you can't just run past it).

Generally, having a "nemesis" for every class would require more careful party composition (PUGs would still work, as queue manager tries to put as many different classes as possible in a party).

frishter · March 2014

warpet wrote: »

great post now devs can see how broken op cw are this only proves what i knowed before dc and one more in 3x cw standard team in cn team do nothing and are not needed

It used to be capable of doing it with just 2 cw but you could no longer toss adds off the end and they also nerfed cws ap gain so the only class capable of easily dealing with the adds are cws. If they kept the ap gain on entangle on tab then 2 would still be enough, but the nerf didn't surprise me considering that they did the same to sun burst. A DC holds a very important role but isn't needed for experienced and very high geared parties, and the last role is taken up by a tr a gwf to tank and hold draco. A gf can do the same, but lacks damage. If there weren't a ridiculous amount of adds then the team could focus on more single target damage instead of the majority of aoe control+damage. Anyway it's not like most teams are capable of 3 manning draco. It shows what good coordination and what a massive boost in gs can do which I think some people forget about. Interesting to see 2 master of flame CWs.

chemboy613 · March 2014

About speed -

I think the point of this video is to show good style, good teamwork, good coordination, and good control. It is really an instructional video on "how to play CW," quite honestly at any GS. Obviously someone with less gear will do less damage and/or less survivability than we do, but even with 1/4 of the DPS, the control could make it easy for the rest of the team.

I'm sure we could have gone faster too, with larger pulls and "creative use of terrian," that said I am not posting a sloppy speedrun. All that would show is "look at how OP we are" and lacks the benefits of what we see here. I've been in some 25-minute four man teams, but of course, that wasn't the ponit here.

As for CW are OP...

Seriously guys? Yes CW is best PvE class, you can't even have an argument, but we have 3 players with great gear and great coordination here. If it's not easy for us, there is something wrong with this game.

That said, if you did whatever nerfs to this, you would also nerf people with half our gear, making dungeons unreachable for the majority of players. Is that really the goal here?

3 Man CN, legit fullclear.

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