You're kidding about the GG gear, right? Tenacity starts to get basically worthless around 750 and you start to see a pretty noticeable diminish. Why would I want the awful profound GWF set for some bullshat stats when I can up my HP to 40K via a double Insti/Sent GG set? I've already been in plenty of matches with tenacity sets. It's clunky, too long, and boring. Worthless changes.
Er i said the GG trade in's sets sucked. Tenacity is multiplicative , the people who'll notice the bigger difference in it would be the lower def classes.
The gwfs already have a high dr anyways so it less noticeable for you atm, so of course you can go whatever you guys want as you can afford loss of dr, you+everyone else already get a 10% pvp dr anyways,but you guys already have a high dr before it anyways without the gear.Not to mention the Profound sets for most classes are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> except maybe the HR.
Not to mention global loss of damage,making you guys recieve even less damage but gwfs have high stats all around so you guys can obviously shift to other stats.
Tenacity is multiplicative , the people who'll notice the bigger difference in it would be the lower def chars.The gwfs already have a high dr anyways so it less noticeable for you atm.
Which negates your original comment and also the "point" of tenacity. Hint, there isn't one. They failed this on several levels, and I'm bowing out for a long while.
Which negates your original comment and also the "point" of tenacity. Hint, there isn't one. They failed this on several levels, and I'm bowing out for a long while.
My orginal point is the feelings of good/bad for it might change, i never hinted it being positive or negative, i merely stated that people shouldn't be too happy or in your can unhappy about it yet, as the full effects have yet to show itself, it might be very bad for all i care, just that the initial response will change, so don;t be too comfortable just yet.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't think Inna used the meatball combo therefore he doesn't get hit by the cc change that much.
As far as I see it CW is still really good as a range DPS. But HR atm seems to do better due to similar burst and cc but with more utility and survival capability. In high-end match it gets hard for CW since you always get focused first, but apart from that I still find CW to be able to go on rampage in some semi-serious game.
Don't think CW is rocking though, it is quite certain that they got NERF this patch. For god knows what reason, only one i can come up with is to cope with the DC NERF. But it is stupid either way...
That's fine.
I am willing to adapt, so I tried almost every spell worth trying that I had. In a balanced PMvsPM, me and a DC were against a geared GWF (the r10/emblem type). I slotted RoE on mastery for double cast/aditional debuff, CoI for yet another debuff, DC debuffed as well, and I nuked with Chill Strikes/Icy Rays/Ice Knife.
After a few minutes, GWF was still alive&well, he got support from R10 GF, both me&DC died easily. DC is R10 as well and top 3 in the game for sure.
So full debuffs&nukes, GWF didn't go down lol.
Am I able to go on rampage on semi-serious games? You can bet I am lol. Am I able to score quite a few kills and probably not even die when I'm in OP premade faced with lesser adversaries? I sure do.
But put me against good premade that know what they do. Things change radically.
This is all about the CW. We no longer have decent escape without Regen/SF/raven. No longer able to kite properly with lack of CC - Repel only stuns for a fraction of a second tenacity geared people, no push. Even Icy Rays root were resisted a few times completely on me, it's dumb.
And facetanking for a CW? This is crazy and should never happen. Wizards should not be tanks, they should be kiters, and tanking people is a bad idea (20% Tenacity 31% DR here...) now as it was before.
My orginal point is the feelings of good/bad for it might change, i never hinted it being positive or negative, i merely stated that people shouldn't be too happy or in your can unhappy about it yet, as the full effects have yet to show itself, it might be very bad for all i care, just that the initial response will change, so don;t be too comfortable just yet.
Don't you get it? Unless they extend to ranking system and nuubs are facing full premades again and wondering why, the queue system will ALWAYS be like this. It's not a bug. It's a ranking system and it hinders the top 30 players, who we all know each play each other all the **** time, and makes all those below feel like they're special until they face us full and then see it was all a mask over a pile of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's what it's going to be from now on unless they one, remove ranking, two extend the ranking system, or three, do what everyone who actually plays PvP has been saying from the beginning so people stop leaving.
Don't you get it? Unless they extend to ranking system and nuubs are facing full premades again and wondering why, the queue system will ALWAYS be like this. It's not a bug. It's a ranking system and it hinders the top 30 players, who we all know each play each other all the **** time, and makes all those below feel like they're special until they face us full and then see it was all a mask over a pile of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's what it's going to be from now on unless they one, remove ranking, two extend the ranking system, or three, do what everyone who actually plays PvP has been saying from the beginning so people stop leaving.
Hmm i Feel like were on different wave lengths here,I understand what your saying of course, but i was never really talking about the queue or ranking I was only focusing on people good or negative reactions at the beginning stages will change after a time skip and players makes use of the pvp stats, in which make fights longer and less intensive making less fun, or the opposite.
I wasn't talking about the merits of tenacity or the pvp queue, just that first reaction probably wont stay the same,you might be happy now, but later on you'll see a difference and probably not like it or vice versa.
A good player NEVER EVER should complain of only facing good players, if you are is because you dont like the actual pvp, just showoff your epeen killing undergeared and underskilled players, if you are complaining because you now have to play the best players over and over... you dont belong there.
Thanks all for the feedback. yesterday and today, had some more great matches and then had some a little off balance with only 2 way off. Its tolerable and we still get some glory.
A good player NEVER EVER should complain of only facing good players, if you are is because you dont like the actual pvp, just showoff your epeen killing undergeared and underskilled players, if you are complaining because you now have to play the best players over and over... you dont belong there.
Why not? We play nearly the same matches every time. That's a complaint about the overall game, which is keeping more actives from participating. Not complaining about tough matches, at all. We're just all a little sick of changes to a style of play that about 70% of us already complained about before it was released, but they did it anyway. Now we have to wait an hour in queue for a 2-hour match for less glory and yesterday in one match we actually stopped fight because we were sick of hitting each other. That's the complaint.
Queue times are greatly reduced - I do solo PUG though, so maybe that is the reason - and there is/was a definite improvement in match quality from Friday night. My GF tore through his first 6 matches (I died twice across all 6 matches) until he met a stonewall and lost 3 straight. Since Saturday night and most of Sunday I'm at a 2:1 win-loss ratio. I've probably had about 30 matches and 4 have been lopsided messes whereas in the past at least every 2nd match would see quitters and camping. Longest match was 18-minutes, but I do agree, first to 1000 or most points in 25/30 minutes wins the match.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Queue is now the same as before for me now. From instant to 2 mins wait range. Last games i got almost instantly joined in a game.
Happy about this.
Tenacity makes it harder to kill people unless you focus them, and DCs still seem to be able to make their party more resilient, and can still tank a lot. Overall, while before a losing team was facerolled fast when trying to fight, now the fights last longer.
Since fights last longer, strategy in pugs have become more important. With node 2 being contested longer, it's important to dispatch people to the other nodes.
Can't say for sure about matchmaking, but i've had more balanced games in the last days than in months of "old" PvP.
Got a match against a half premade and we won. Still happy you don't get to fight full premades anymore. W
A Premade vs Premade queue is needed anyway for the guilds to face each Others.
Much to improve, but imho, much better than before.
One issue with the ranking system is that it doesn't take account of party composition. In a game with such hugely imbalanced classes this renders the matchmaking irrelevant in some cases. I had a match yesterday where my party consisted of 2 x TR, 2 x CW, and 1 x HR. The opposing team had 2 x GF, 1 x GWF, 1 x CW and 1 x DC. Needless to say we were roflstomped despite theoretically being 'balanced'.
In PUG v PUG it's generally the team with the greater number of GWFs that wins, regardless of ranking.
Que time are down for me as well. No fix for poor pug strategy though
Word.
We took on a beastly PUG. 1 CW, 1 HR, 1 DC, 2 GWFs. They tore us apart. All five of my team finished in the bottom places with more than 10 deaths a piece. They finished with 68 kills to our 14, BUT, we won the match. Why? They never, ever even tried to take our home node while we were always able to at least contest/back-cap their home node as well as contest mid. They just stayed at mid and killed us. I even told them in zone chat that they are so stupid and should be keeping us pinned back at our spawn point. We were glad to simply feed them kills and harass their home point because we won.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Too soon still for me to have an opinion overall, but I can say that the first 3 matches I took my DC into were complete ****. Prior to the update I did decent enough on my DC (this has always been my weakest PVP char) but after the patch I couldn't heal anyone or myself and I died almost instantly most of the time. I was running a set of Grim armor too. Maybe it was my team...maybe I just suck as DC PVP, but it made me want to never PVP on my DC again.
The rest of my chars I do not feel this way about.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
Too soon still for me to have an opinion overall, but I can say that the first 3 matches I took my DC into were complete ****. Prior to the update I did decent enough on my DC (this has always been my weakest PVP char) but after the patch I couldn't heal anyone or myself and I died almost instantly most of the time. I was running a set of Grim armor too. Maybe it was my team...maybe I just suck as DC PVP, but it made me want to never PVP on my DC again.
The rest of my chars I do not feel this way about.
I was in a group with TWO DCs that refused to heal. I could tell they were running chains, daunting light and sun burst. When our GWF raged at them to heal they sarcastically said ''DCs can heal in PvP?''. They further went on to tell the GWF that he should read the patch notes because Healing Depression.
It was at this point that I stepped in and said; ''The enemy team has one DC. He is sitting in the middle of node 2. We can't kill him and he is healing the enemy players while we try and kill them.''
Our DCs suddenly start using Astral Shield and keep myself (GF) and the GWF alive. We threw the enemy team off node 2, but the damage was done. We lost the match but closed the score once the DCs stopped crying and done their jobs.
I have also since come across a few other DCs that can be bothersome on node. They may not be able to solo tank a node against 2/3 opponents anymore but put a GF/GWF with them and it is a tough fight for your opponents.
I will do some PvP with my DC to see for myself.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
I was in a group with TWO DCs that refused to heal. I could tell they were running chains, daunting light and sun burst. When our GWF raged at them to heal they sarcastically said ''DCs can heal in PvP?''. They further went on to tell the GWF that he should read the patch notes because Healing Depression and other QQ stories.
It was at this point that I stepped in and said; ''The enemy team has one DC. He is sitting in the middle of node 2. We can't kill him and he is healing the enemy players while we try and kill them.''
Our QQ-ing DCs suddenly start using Astral Shield and keep myself (GF) and the GWF alive. We threw the enemy team off node 2, but the damage was done. We lost the match but closed the score once the DCs stopped crying and done their jobs.
TrueStory.png
Nice idea to troll with daunting light in pvp. BTW why is it considered bad? Players are allowed to play the way they want, aren't they? So why should anyone do what someone expects or forces them to do? I am as well as those two guys not enjoying healing I do anymore and I'm thinking about rolling those "troll" builds to have at least some perverted fun. You may take it as a revolt.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Nice idea to troll with daunting light in pvp. BTW why is it considered bad? Players are allowed to play the way they want, aren't they? So why should anyone do what someone expects or forces them to do? I am as well as those two guys not enjoying healing I do anymore and I'm thinking about rolling those "troll" builds to have at least some perverted fun. You may take it as a revolt.
Because PvP is not a singleplayer mode. Whether you like it or not, once you are in a team each and every member has an obligation to each other to fight for the common objective in earnest.
Of course, it is true that some people might want to try it out in a different manner, and there will be some freedom to do so -- ie., try out new builds or tactics. The tricky part would be balancing the "personal want" with the goal of the many.
That being said, the two DCs mentioned were clearly selfish trolls in that they would refuse to aid their teammates in the best way they could, based on some poor and pathetic information coming from dubious sources. As demonstrated if they were doing their jobs better, staggy's team would have won, based on his depiction.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Nice idea to troll with daunting light in pvp. BTW why is it considered bad? Players are allowed to play the way they want, aren't they? So why should anyone do what someone expects or forces them to do? I am as well as those two guys not enjoying healing I do anymore and I'm thinking about rolling those "troll" builds to have at least some perverted fun. You may take it as a revolt.
If you want to get you some kills go roll another class.
What irritated me was their complaints about inability to heal when there was living, breathing proof that it was still viable, with support. Yes, you cannot troll a node by yourself against 2/3, but if there is a GF/GWF in town with you it is game on. Mano-e-mano we (GF/GWF) were a match for their GWFs, BUT, the difference was their DC was keeping the GWFs alive and rooting one of us while ours were derping about trying to kill stuff, the result being they were mauled repeatedly. The minute they decided to come on board the tide turned, albeit too late.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Completely disagree. Played about 20 matches this weekend between a GWF and a CW. All but one was a hugely lopsided win or loss. I am beginning to wonder if the devs turned off matchmaking in order to speed up the queue times.
My brother plays CW, he says that it's nearly unplayable right now, he lacks both damage and survivability (only latter was a problem before). HD hit them hard as their high hp+regen was the only way to survive.
Yes, basically. Even with full HV set and full Fomorian weapon set, regeneration in PVP is basically zero.
Completely disagree. Played about 20 matches this weekend between a GWF and a CW. All but one was a hugely lopsided win or loss. I am beginning to wonder if the devs turned off matchmaking in order to speed up the queue times.
Sort of, my bet is they extended the ELO to take whatever was next in line, IE essentially like it was before but slower. They had to do it, or something like it, because long queue times were largely because of a player base that's not large enough to support constant variety, especially for upper-level players.
The worst thing that can happen in a match is having two healers in my team. Being me one of them.
The second worst thing is a perma stealth rogue.
Obvious ELO was a fail because cashers just want to find low gear players to rolfstomp.
PS: need to learn this term "rolfstomp" to use exclusive in this forum.
Completely disagree. Played about 20 matches this weekend between a GWF and a CW. All but one was a hugely lopsided win or loss. I am beginning to wonder if the devs turned off matchmaking in order to speed up the queue times.
That's what I was guessing. I played a dozen or so matches yesterday, the queue was about 10 times faster than it was on friday, but the matches are all over the place. A few 800-1000 matches, but mostly just the same old unbalanced <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from before, only difference is people don't give up and leave so matches that would have taken 6-7 minutes before take 12-15 minutes and now they end 1000-25 instead of 1000-0.
Comments
Er i said the GG trade in's sets sucked. Tenacity is multiplicative , the people who'll notice the bigger difference in it would be the lower def classes.
The gwfs already have a high dr anyways so it less noticeable for you atm, so of course you can go whatever you guys want as you can afford loss of dr, you+everyone else already get a 10% pvp dr anyways,but you guys already have a high dr before it anyways without the gear.Not to mention the Profound sets for most classes are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> except maybe the HR.
Not to mention global loss of damage,making you guys recieve even less damage but gwfs have high stats all around so you guys can obviously shift to other stats.
Which negates your original comment and also the "point" of tenacity. Hint, there isn't one. They failed this on several levels, and I'm bowing out for a long while.
My orginal point is the feelings of good/bad for it might change, i never hinted it being positive or negative, i merely stated that people shouldn't be too happy or in your can unhappy about it yet, as the full effects have yet to show itself, it might be very bad for all i care, just that the initial response will change, so don;t be too comfortable just yet.
That's fine.
I am willing to adapt, so I tried almost every spell worth trying that I had. In a balanced PMvsPM, me and a DC were against a geared GWF (the r10/emblem type). I slotted RoE on mastery for double cast/aditional debuff, CoI for yet another debuff, DC debuffed as well, and I nuked with Chill Strikes/Icy Rays/Ice Knife.
After a few minutes, GWF was still alive&well, he got support from R10 GF, both me&DC died easily. DC is R10 as well and top 3 in the game for sure.
So full debuffs&nukes, GWF didn't go down lol.
Am I able to go on rampage on semi-serious games? You can bet I am lol. Am I able to score quite a few kills and probably not even die when I'm in OP premade faced with lesser adversaries? I sure do.
But put me against good premade that know what they do. Things change radically.
This is all about the CW. We no longer have decent escape without Regen/SF/raven. No longer able to kite properly with lack of CC - Repel only stuns for a fraction of a second tenacity geared people, no push. Even Icy Rays root were resisted a few times completely on me, it's dumb.
And facetanking for a CW? This is crazy and should never happen. Wizards should not be tanks, they should be kiters, and tanking people is a bad idea (20% Tenacity 31% DR here...) now as it was before.
Don't you get it? Unless they extend to ranking system and nuubs are facing full premades again and wondering why, the queue system will ALWAYS be like this. It's not a bug. It's a ranking system and it hinders the top 30 players, who we all know each play each other all the **** time, and makes all those below feel like they're special until they face us full and then see it was all a mask over a pile of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. It's what it's going to be from now on unless they one, remove ranking, two extend the ranking system, or three, do what everyone who actually plays PvP has been saying from the beginning so people stop leaving.
Hmm i Feel like were on different wave lengths here,I understand what your saying of course, but i was never really talking about the queue or ranking I was only focusing on people good or negative reactions at the beginning stages will change after a time skip and players makes use of the pvp stats, in which make fights longer and less intensive making less fun, or the opposite.
I wasn't talking about the merits of tenacity or the pvp queue, just that first reaction probably wont stay the same,you might be happy now, but later on you'll see a difference and probably not like it or vice versa.
Why not? We play nearly the same matches every time. That's a complaint about the overall game, which is keeping more actives from participating. Not complaining about tough matches, at all. We're just all a little sick of changes to a style of play that about 70% of us already complained about before it was released, but they did it anyway. Now we have to wait an hour in queue for a 2-hour match for less glory and yesterday in one match we actually stopped fight because we were sick of hitting each other. That's the complaint.
Queue times are greatly reduced - I do solo PUG though, so maybe that is the reason - and there is/was a definite improvement in match quality from Friday night. My GF tore through his first 6 matches (I died twice across all 6 matches) until he met a stonewall and lost 3 straight. Since Saturday night and most of Sunday I'm at a 2:1 win-loss ratio. I've probably had about 30 matches and 4 have been lopsided messes whereas in the past at least every 2nd match would see quitters and camping. Longest match was 18-minutes, but I do agree, first to 1000 or most points in 25/30 minutes wins the match.
Happy about this.
Tenacity makes it harder to kill people unless you focus them, and DCs still seem to be able to make their party more resilient, and can still tank a lot. Overall, while before a losing team was facerolled fast when trying to fight, now the fights last longer.
Since fights last longer, strategy in pugs have become more important. With node 2 being contested longer, it's important to dispatch people to the other nodes.
Can't say for sure about matchmaking, but i've had more balanced games in the last days than in months of "old" PvP.
Got a match against a half premade and we won. Still happy you don't get to fight full premades anymore. W
A Premade vs Premade queue is needed anyway for the guilds to face each Others.
Much to improve, but imho, much better than before.
In PUG v PUG it's generally the team with the greater number of GWFs that wins, regardless of ranking.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Uh? I fail to understand why it's not instant.
30 min queue is like you always have a leaver penalty.
Things have improved over the past day. que times are down to 5-15mins for a permade party and near instant-5mins for solo que.
Word.
We took on a beastly PUG. 1 CW, 1 HR, 1 DC, 2 GWFs. They tore us apart. All five of my team finished in the bottom places with more than 10 deaths a piece. They finished with 68 kills to our 14, BUT, we won the match. Why? They never, ever even tried to take our home node while we were always able to at least contest/back-cap their home node as well as contest mid. They just stayed at mid and killed us. I even told them in zone chat that they are so stupid and should be keeping us pinned back at our spawn point. We were glad to simply feed them kills and harass their home point because we won.
The rest of my chars I do not feel this way about.
- JailBreak (in development)
I was in a group with TWO DCs that refused to heal. I could tell they were running chains, daunting light and sun burst. When our GWF raged at them to heal they sarcastically said ''DCs can heal in PvP?''. They further went on to tell the GWF that he should read the patch notes because Healing Depression.
It was at this point that I stepped in and said; ''The enemy team has one DC. He is sitting in the middle of node 2. We can't kill him and he is healing the enemy players while we try and kill them.''
Our DCs suddenly start using Astral Shield and keep myself (GF) and the GWF alive. We threw the enemy team off node 2, but the damage was done. We lost the match but closed the score once the DCs stopped crying and done their jobs.
I have also since come across a few other DCs that can be bothersome on node. They may not be able to solo tank a node against 2/3 opponents anymore but put a GF/GWF with them and it is a tough fight for your opponents.
I will do some PvP with my DC to see for myself.
TrueStory.png
Nice idea to troll with daunting light in pvp. BTW why is it considered bad? Players are allowed to play the way they want, aren't they? So why should anyone do what someone expects or forces them to do? I am as well as those two guys not enjoying healing I do anymore and I'm thinking about rolling those "troll" builds to have at least some perverted fun. You may take it as a revolt.
Because PvP is not a singleplayer mode. Whether you like it or not, once you are in a team each and every member has an obligation to each other to fight for the common objective in earnest.
Of course, it is true that some people might want to try it out in a different manner, and there will be some freedom to do so -- ie., try out new builds or tactics. The tricky part would be balancing the "personal want" with the goal of the many.
That being said, the two DCs mentioned were clearly selfish trolls in that they would refuse to aid their teammates in the best way they could, based on some poor and pathetic information coming from dubious sources. As demonstrated if they were doing their jobs better, staggy's team would have won, based on his depiction.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If you want to get you some kills go roll another class.
What irritated me was their complaints about inability to heal when there was living, breathing proof that it was still viable, with support. Yes, you cannot troll a node by yourself against 2/3, but if there is a GF/GWF in town with you it is game on. Mano-e-mano we (GF/GWF) were a match for their GWFs, BUT, the difference was their DC was keeping the GWFs alive and rooting one of us while ours were derping about trying to kill stuff, the result being they were mauled repeatedly. The minute they decided to come on board the tide turned, albeit too late.
Yes, basically. Even with full HV set and full Fomorian weapon set, regeneration in PVP is basically zero.
Sort of, my bet is they extended the ELO to take whatever was next in line, IE essentially like it was before but slower. They had to do it, or something like it, because long queue times were largely because of a player base that's not large enough to support constant variety, especially for upper-level players.
The second worst thing is a perma stealth rogue.
Obvious ELO was a fail because cashers just want to find low gear players to rolfstomp.
PS: need to learn this term "rolfstomp" to use exclusive in this forum.
That's what I was guessing. I played a dozen or so matches yesterday, the queue was about 10 times faster than it was on friday, but the matches are all over the place. A few 800-1000 matches, but mostly just the same old unbalanced <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from before, only difference is people don't give up and leave so matches that would have taken 6-7 minutes before take 12-15 minutes and now they end 1000-25 instead of 1000-0.