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Campfire Sitting in PvP
greyloche
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 647 Arc User
so the other day i'm in PvP, and it was pretty evenly matched, but as soon as we hit about 150 points 3 of my team mates started sitting at the campfire. when i called them on it they said i should just get used to it as thats what they intended to do if they couldn't leave the game without penalty.
so in reality i believe we just traded one sucky thing (leaving in the middle of the fight) to another (campfire sitting in the middle of a fight).
i would love to see a penalty where if you sit at the campfire for more than 30 seconds you are kicked from the group, with a penalty.
also, i would love the ability to kick people out of the group. had an idiot in my group and we all wanted to kick him but couldn't.
so in reality i believe we just traded one sucky thing (leaving in the middle of the fight) to another (campfire sitting in the middle of a fight).
i would love to see a penalty where if you sit at the campfire for more than 30 seconds you are kicked from the group, with a penalty.
also, i would love the ability to kick people out of the group. had an idiot in my group and we all wanted to kick him but couldn't.
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Remove PvE-useful rewards from PvP. And then only people that actually desire to PvP will queue.
Together with incoming ELO and penalties, this should work wonders.
i think people that hate pvp hate it currently because there is no matchmaking. queue them up with people that are more on their level and it won't be such an issue. yes, i realize that people are still going to lose at the lower end of the ranking spectrum but at least the match will be more balanced. not to mention you will now gain glory and seals along with the AD daily reward.
While I will whole heartedly agree that the situation you state is the type of situation that would make a campfire penalty a good idea. I cant say Im in favor of it just yet. Not until we see how well the new match making system, leaver penalty and buff/debuff work. Because in the end none of those thing address the problem of having your asses handed to you over and over to the point where leaving the spawn area only means a quick death and more points for the other team.
Now if all the new changes actually stops that from happening, then sure, add a campfire penalty. But until then all that is going to happen is casual and new PvPers will just avoid PvP. And while you may disagree I know for a fact from other games that all the hardcore PvPers will get bored facing the same players over and over again because it will become a stalemate. Meaning team B has never beaten team A, Team C has never beaten team B and has no chance of beating team A, so on and so forth. Resulting in easily predicted matches based on who is in the match.
No, pers3phone is right. It's because of the artifact, mainly. Even with a proper matchmaking system, I don't have a ton of desire to actually fight people.
In my case Pers3phone is right , the artifact is really the only reason I was going to start to pvp again when the new content gets released onto live , but now they are going to release the GG trader onto live too so I can trade GG coins for glory , yes it isn't the most efficient way to get glory but as I stand I already have almost half the coins I need to just buy the artifact and I'm hoping that by the time the patch is out I'll either have enough or almost enough .
I'll still play pvp to see what it is like with matchmaking and a leavers penalty and the pvp stat and I hope it is more fun for players like me who like to play casual pvp purely for fun but find being splatted in one hit then suffering 15 minutes of trash talking for no apparent reason not very enjoyable at all.
Perfect demonstration of why a penalty for leaving is not the best answer.
Penalize me for leaving? Okay, I'll just sit here by the campfire.
Penalize me for sitting by the campfire? Okay, I'll just jump down into the match and go stand in a corner.
Shortsighted "solutions" that address behavior, and not the cause of the behavior doesn't not provide a solid, long term solution. If you look at why people leave, and address the root issue, you don't have to worry about "leavers". Give players an incentive worth fighting for, even in the face of overwhelming odds, and they will do just that. Punish them to correct behavior and they will just find another way around "the chore" at hand.
^this.
I do pvp only for the artifact. I don't actually mind having to do some pvp (it's still a hour spent doing things that differ from usual routine, and it's positive), but what annoys me the most is the fact that often I don't even get the chance to score a single point in a fight.
With overwhelming odds, against ultra-geared people with optimal pvp equip, r10 enchants, p.vorpal and stuff, that I don't have a chance to kill even if they were blind and handcuffed, nope, I don't enjoy that kind of pvp at all.
Now, it wasn't much fun to come up against a premade top-geared group, and look forward to not getting any points at all...the ranking system will fix that, at least.
The way I see it - the changes are an improvement for people that enjoy PvP and want it to depend more on skill and teamwork than the "luck" issue of who your opponents are...but for the people that don't really want to PvP they don't really make much of a difference.
The ONLY problem is the new matching system is not based off gear score or what one would call skill. It is instead based off how many games your toon wins (which is BS) seeing some of the poorest players can get lucky and get on a team that crushes their opponents.
This will not solve anything only make things worse I am afraid they need to implement a gear score and a skill score (like how many times you cap, damage done, kills something like that).
Sitting at camp is better than going out there and get jibbed. With the new Tenacity change it would be hard to even pick up a kill before you die so it makes everything sort of pointless.
And one of the reason PVP sucks so much are people that only PVE come into PVP for the artifact and glory gear. Who ever gets more these people in his team are destined to be doom.
A simple solution would be to introduce a option when queue up: one for I wanna enjoy PVP and I am exp queue, the other one for I am causal only here for daily and artifact. Combine with Elo and new matchmaking it should improve PVP match quality.
I mean hack my GWF and TR can easily 1 v 3 and kill them all when facing non exp PVP player. It is no fun for them or me.
Well if my toon is Joe Herp Derp the worst PvPer ever, and I happen to get on really good teams for my first few matches, my score will rise to a point above my true level. Sooner or later I won't have people to carry me and my ranking will go down. Self correcting over time.
As mentioned many times before, people can change gear after a match starts. I would be against preventing the changing of gear especially now that there are PvP specific sets. Good 'ol Joe Herp Derp is likely to have the wrong equipment on when the match starts and his only hope of keeping his death total below 1000 for the match is to change his equip.
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I think if I am in PvP i should go fight, sitting at campfire seems stupid.
That said if I am getting facesmashed 4v1 while my four teammates are either a) fighting on SP rouge and ignoring the map; b) so drastically undergeared they can't do anything but die and let me get gangbanged c) leave in the first 2 minutes, I would probably leave too. I'm in there to fight, not be paired with incompitent team mates.
Now if my team and the other team was on a similar skill level - then let's fight all day! That would be a blast.
I think all the other changes are somewhat unnecessary. Give us matchmaking, make leave = loss, and the problem is 90% solved.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I agree with you all the way. Honestly they seem to be going out of their way to create these solutions. But in the end they still are going to be dealing with the same issues. The sad part is that many people from the community have provided sound logical ideas on fixes for pvp but as it goes they don't seem to listen. The developers are kinda child shining a magnifying glass upon ants. (im not killing you its the sun). "were not causing your deaths its the players". Ahh balancing skills....i wonder how much longer. All this stuff just to have to do the same thing in the end. Keep up the good work :-D ......
The number of games you win, on average, is a far better indicator of your skill than anything else. It isn't perfect, of course, and sometimes you will either win or lose without proper merit or fault, but it's still better than relying on GS (that is pretty random as far as I can tell, and depends on a lot of things other than gear).
Remember that it isn't a single "lucky" victory (or loss) that makes your score, but your average performance in a team over many battles with many different teams. When confronted by a similarly skilled players, if you play well, chances are your team wins. You play poorly, your team will probably lose.
ok so what do you do when there is only 2 or 3 of you left and the other 2 aren't leaving "the coward's pen" because they're dying before their feet hit the ground? Are you the idiot that continues to keep getting killed over and over giving more and more points to the other team? you know, the other team that wont even allow you get enough points to get the min amount needed for glory? Or do you just say screw it, I guess Ill sit here too so I can at least get credit for the PvP daily quest?
Sorry, but I disagree. People who outright hate PvP do so because they are used to scripted encounters where the enemies do the exact same thing every time you face them. Players don't and it presents more of a challenge. I couldn't tell you how many times I see players going nuts trying to dps other players with powers that were obviously meant for dungeons and mobs, not players. Example, the HR who is spamming thorn ward, split the sky, and rain of arrows in PvP. I see this all the time and as a HR it disgusts me. Especially when they decide it's smart to do it from a ledge instead of helping to contest a node.
So i am confident, that matchmaking will solve that problem. If you have gained a rating above average, you will likely be grouped with people who will never do that.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)