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Transmute costs need to be scrapped

thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014 in General Discussion (PC)
Why do I have to pay upwards of 200,000 AD to transmute a complete armour and weapon set? I have either already spent AD purchasing the item who's appearance I want or I have spent AD getting into VT/MC and proceeded to spend hours/days/weeks/months grinding for the item who's appearance I want.

This is unreasonable.

If I have to pay for it, just charge me gold like they do for swapping enchants. I'd rather pay gold as it is far easier to generate than AD. A set of dailies in Dread Ring and I've probably picked up enough stuff to sell to a vendor and earn 2 - 3 gold coins.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Post edited by thestaggy on

Comments

  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Gold is a good solution as is a drastic price reduction. Bring the ad cost down to a few k (under 5) and it'd be reasonable as well imo.
  • thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Gold is a good solution as is a drastic price reduction. Bring the ad cost down to a few k (under 5) and it'd be reasonable as well imo.

    Agreed, even 5k would be reasonable. It's just too much and in most cases the cost of transmuting exceeds the value of the item you are using.
    PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Personally I think gold on <60 items and AD on T1+ items is a good comprimise. This gives you the flexibility to alter appearance while levelling(which at the moment is just a big no-no) and still acts as a good AD sink when you reach your end game gear.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Been saying this since open beta.
  • imsmithyimsmithy Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Totally agree , I have more than enough AD to transmute whenever I want but I just cannot justify spending 51k on something I think of as a basic quality of life feature , I'm not saying it should be free but it should certainly be a lot less than it currently is.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    tang56 wrote: »
    Personally I think gold on <60 items and AD on T1+ items is a good comprimise. This gives you the flexibility to alter appearance while levelling(which at the moment is just a big no-no) and still acts as a good AD sink when you reach your end game gear.

    As we are talking about purely cosmetics I don't particularly disagree with the current high costs. The above idea sounds like a nice compromise though.
  • vaerthvaerth Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I am level 25 and had to spend 10k AD to change my chest armor, I was very unhappy with that cost as well. nearly made me want to not transmute. On top of that, if I do not transmute and color my gear how I like it I would not play. So Crypic has me quite unhappy with the system used for transmuting. Very unhappy....
  • alvadimarcoalvadimarco Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Transmutation is really a waste before 60. You get new gear so often and leveling is so fast that it's AD spent on nothing.

    The truth is that Cryptic doesn't want you to transmute your armor, no matter what level you're at. They want you buying costumes.
  • domjotdomjot Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I think they should just scrap transmutes altogether and add Cryptic's robust costume creator, from STO and Champion's, in it's place.
  • mehguy138mehguy138 Member Posts: 1,803 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    tang56 wrote: »
    Personally I think gold on <60 items and AD on T1+ items is a good comprimise. This gives you the flexibility to alter appearance while levelling(which at the moment is just a big no-no) and still acts as a good AD sink when you reach your end game gear.

    This is a very good idea.
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  • tesyratesyra Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I think if we are to pay the current costs then the desired appearance item should become a fashion item
    Of course they cant do this because Armour comes in Arms, Feet, Head, Neck and Torso, whereas Fashion comes in Head, Top and Bottoms - Which IMHO is a massive oversight from the start (especially as i love the boots from Courtesan outfit, but hate the skirt)

    But this would give us some true mix n match options, mixing both fashion and gear styles into one unique outfit
    But they didnt do it from the start, so probably impossible to do now

    Cant see them switching to Gold, because Diamonds make the world go round, I definitely think the AD costs should be lower, most of us will end up paying them several times over
    If those changes were more permanent (IE if they became Fashion items) then 50k isnt bad, as youd end up with a nice looking item you could always use when you wanted to
    Cant speak for everyone but i would probably end up with several complete outfits, even some duplicates dyed differently, which would probably make me buy more bank slots, so theres still an upside for the bean-counters

    As it is, i just wont pay it, so im stuck with whatever, this just means my bond to the game isnt that strong, i can live with that

    Also quick question, because of the costs i havent yet transmuted anything
    IF and when i do, if i dye an Armour Torso say red, white and blue, then use it as an appearance for my newly looted Armour Torso, does it at least keep the colours i dyed it? Or does it revert to its original default colours and require re-dying?

    And one more "also"
    Also can we get Shirts and Pants to be "disable appearance" enabled, like Helms are?
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I know that using a new skin on items you've previously dyed keeps the dyed colours.

    I don't know if the reverse is true because I've not done it that way around.
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  • tang56tang56 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    tesyra wrote: »
    Also quick question, because of the costs i havent yet transmuted anything
    IF and when i do, if i dye an Armour Torso say red, white and blue, then use it as an appearance for my newly looted Armour Torso, does it at least keep the colours i dyed it? Or does it revert to its original default colours and require re-dying?
    You want to dye the item with the stats you want. If you dye the item that is gonna be used up as a transmute, you lose the dye.
    RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    That part is kind of a downer because if you really liked your old armour cosmetically and dyed it to make it even more fantastically spiffy, but upgraded, then you need to dye it again.

    (Thus why a lot of people don't make expensive customizations until they have their BiS epics.)
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  • tesyratesyra Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Thanks guys, so glad i asked that,
    it never crossed my mind to dye the actual gear piece, i'd assumed the dye would be on the skin, and therefore transfer with the skin

    great shame, great game, but some of us are going to be stuck playing toons we hate the look of, yeah thats good business, it will keeeep us playing for years
    think i honestly just felt the first pang of "maybe this isnt the game for me after all", i mean its not a quitting thing, but i think its the first brick gone from that particular wall, wonder how long before the rest of the bricks come tumbling down
  • naicalusnaicalus Member Posts: 645 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    It's absolutely not true that the dye is lost when transmuting a dyed item onto another item. I got my CW's High Vizier chest piece last night during DD and promptly used the Armor of Lolth I'd been keeping in my inventory for when I got it that I'd dyed a while back to be black/gold/red. The appearance of the HV item is now exactly like my old dyed armor of Lolth, and did not require re-dying. Same with the HV slippers I transmuted to Boots of Dominance. Those I dyed red/black ages ago, and their appearance applied to the HV boots is still the same red/black.
    Largely inactive, playing Skyforge as Nai Calus.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    Make it cost 30-50 gold instead
  • terryclothterrycloth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    What it really needs is a 'cosmetic' slot on the armor page that overrides the look of the piece, in addition to the existing alternate page which uses totally different slots. Then you wouldn't ever have to transmute in the first place.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    terrycloth wrote: »
    What it really needs is a 'cosmetic' slot on the armor page that overrides the look of the piece, in addition to the existing alternate page which uses totally different slots. Then you wouldn't ever have to transmute in the first place.

    There should be some kind of penalty/maintenance fee to prevent players from just constantly switching out stuff and changing their appearance for free.

    I think the gold cost of 30-50 is a fair compromise plus it puts value into gold
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I would prefer that when you transmute one item to look like another, you now get a dropdown, where you can select the original appearance, or any others that you've transmuted onto your item - then at least you wouldn't give anything up when you transmute something's appearance.
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  • thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    Make it cost 30-50 gold instead

    That is equally excessive. Why must we pay so much for things we have spent hours grinding for or already spent AD acquiring?
    PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,781 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    domjot wrote: »
    I think they should just scrap transmutes altogether and add Cryptic's robust costume creator, from STO and Champion's, in it's place.

    This would be ideal. Cryptic has the most powerful costume editor of any MMO with only All-Points Bulletin coming close, it's practically a crime that they have disabled it for this game. And charging ZEN to let us edit our characters instead of gold like both STO and Champions, again nuts.

    The biggest thing I'm amazed at is they have disabled our ability to buy new costume slots. I've spent a tone of money on costumes in CO and STO, I'd love to do that here too if they gave me a reason and the ability to do so.

    I'd love to have 3 or more fashion slots for each character, and I'd love to be able to make my gear look just how I want. *throws wallet at screen* take my money da***t!
  • chemboy613chemboy613 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    1) In general, gold seems harder for me to find than AD. I barely notice 50k AD

    2) On my account i have probably transmuted and dyed several sets, and mostly likely the main armor peices. For fashion I have a ton of outfits (can't count) across my toons, all dyed

    3) I never once felt ripped off. Customization is nice, but it should cost something, as you saying to people "I finally can afford to spend <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> AD on aesthetics"

    Certainly don't have a problem with the current system, it's never been an issue to me.
  • zyphxxzyphxx Member Posts: 86
    edited February 2014
    The current costs an a lot of things are too high. Purely cosmetic changes should cost very little because they give no game advantage. I agree it is a good money sinck, but lower yhe cost and it becomes an even better sinck because people will do it more.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    chemboy613 wrote: »
    1) In general, gold seems harder for me to find than AD. I barely notice 50k AD

    You, personally, run a lot of Draco. Ergo, your AD income is likely high while your consumables expenses in gold outstrip your income in that regard.

    I am not a motivated dungeon grinder, but do tons of leadership. I have surplus gold (and ok AD).

    I think transmute costs are somewhat prohibitive for people who are casual players, enjoy fashion more than combat, primarily want to roleplay, etc. It's expensive *and* it destroys the item you use for the appearance, which may not be easily replaced.

    I agree, lower cost and it's a better sink because people won't balk at the cost so much. They'll use it.
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  • kvetkvet Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,700 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Compared to other Cryptic games (STO and CO) the character appearance customization options in Neverwinter are a joke. It more of a joke than the STO Gateway is. They should make it cost gold, and be relatively cheap (like it is in STO and CO -- it's not free there either, but it's very very cheap, so cheap you don't even notice it's costing you).
  • heathermooreheathermoore Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    This would be ideal. Cryptic has the most powerful costume editor of any MMO with only All-Points Bulletin coming close, it's practically a crime that they have disabled it for this game. And charging ZEN to let us edit our characters instead of gold like both STO and Champions, again nuts.

    The biggest thing I'm amazed at is they have disabled our ability to buy new costume slots. I've spent a tone of money on costumes in CO and STO, I'd love to do that here too if they gave me a reason and the ability to do so.

    I'd love to have 3 or more fashion slots for each character, and I'd love to be able to make my gear look just how I want. *throws wallet at screen* take my money da***t!

    Apropos of not much, I would argue that Wildstar's costume creator looks as though it's going to blow Cryptic out of the water. They've started to boost it as one of the great selling points of the game, much as Cryptic did with Champions. I'm wondering if the Neverwinter handling of customization is one of the items the developers intend to expand in the future once they've had a better look at which way the wind blow in the industry.
  • howitzer001howitzer001 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I honestly wouldn't mind the cost of transmutation if you were able to remove the item from the transmuted one whenever you wanted to. But as it stands right now you lose 51k AD plus the item you transmuted - never having the option to use that skin again.

    Path of Exile has a transmute option, too. The difference is you won't lose the item you used to skin your current gear. You can remove it at any time to apply it to new gear. I think it's an excellent system and hope Cryptic takes notice of it.
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  • zyphxxzyphxx Member Posts: 86
    edited February 2014
    Apropos of not much, I would argue that Wildstar's costume creator looks as though it's going to blow Cryptic out of the water. They've started to boost it as one of the great selling points of the game, much as Cryptic did with Champions. I'm wondering if the Neverwinter handling of customization is one of the items the developers intend to expand in the future once they've had a better look at which way the wind blow in the industry.

    It will not matter what Wildstar has because the produce will find a way to kill it in it's cradle. With that out of the way.

    Cryptic created the two best character generators to ever grace MMOs. I am speaking of Champions and City of Heroes. As much as I love both of those, only portions fit a fantasy game imo. See, I want my gear to change as a I get new items. I like that, I do however want to be able to transmute for a reasonable price. 500k ad per 10 levels of the item would work fine for me. So something low level would be cheap, but high level stuff would be less.
  • terryclothterrycloth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    There should be some kind of penalty/maintenance fee to prevent players from just constantly switching out stuff and changing their appearance for free.

    No... no that's exactly what it shouldn't have. You should be able to change your appearance for free using the items you bought for that purpose (or that you bought for some other purpose but are now only using for changing your appearance).

    Dyes can still cost money. Items that change your appearance can still have a cost. Fashion items can definitely still cost zen because they look totally different from any armor. It's just extending the ability to take them off and put them back on to other items as well and not tying that to the stats.
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