+18% crit sev is most assuredly NOT +18% crit damage.
We're not even arguing, you're just stuck on a typo on my part.
And yes, 18% more critical severity is 18% more critical damage. The damage the critical strike does is increased by 18%. They are the same thing. By definition. I'm sorry you want to argue semantics?
When you assume that critical damage refers to the bonus damage a critical does than yeah, the difference in bonus damage is increased by 18%. That doesn't mean it raises the overall damage the attack does by 18%. I wasn't being clear enough, and I should not have said 'critical strike'. My fault.
I also have never said to 'stack tons of crit'. Anywhere. I've made it clear, several times, that I am not saying that. Period.
I'm not saying stack critical rating up to 5000. I'll write this in capital letters, just so you know what I am saying.
IF YOU ARE A MOF, AND IF YOU ARE WEARING HIGH VIZIERS, YOU WILL WANT 2K CRIT RATING.
It doesn't matter where, or how, you get it.
We are agreeing. The only difference being what item exactly on which slot exactly should be used, with there being no right answer as long as target numbers are met. Well, that and I think MoF is fun. Not optimal; fun.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
I just think that MoF is useless in every situation except Draco (multiple high health targets for DoTs to tick on) and that makes it garbage because we overgear everything now and Draco is easy with a good group so I go SS, HV, Thaum to clear trash faster.
And there you have it.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Ok, after testing both HV and SW's complete 4-set bonus I have come to a number of conclusions.
Firstly, HV is not consistent. It is not 100% uptime on 100% of enemies. Not even close. Unless you are running a control heavy build with EF on tab? No? Then it's moot. Here's a breakdown of what, exactly, HV does and how it does it. I've tried each and every ability with HV 4 set, and here it is. (Stolen from the wiki to save time, but I have tested these. It is accurate with the possible exception of Shield as I do not have that spell anymore.)
HIGH VIZIER'S:
Icy Terrain: Adds 1 stack of debuff to affected targets with intial cast. None on DoT. (Infinite Number)
Repel: Adds 1 stacks of buff, and 1 stack of debuff. (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's 3 stacks of buff with three targets, 1 stack of debuff per taret. (Max 5 targets)
Entangling Force: Adds one stack of buff to self, one stack of debuff to target (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's up to 3 stacks of buff with 3 targets hit, one stack of debuff to each target pulled. (Infinite targets?)
Steal Time: Adds 1 stack of buff, up to 3 stacks of debuff per target. (Max 5 targets)
Chill Strike: Add's 2 stacks of debuff to target, no buff to self. (Single Target)
(TAB) Adds 3 stacks of debuff to primary target, and 1 stack of debuff to all other affected targets. (Max 5 targets)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Adds 1 stack of debuff to targets affected by push. No effect from shard explosion. (Max 5 targets, likely 1 or 0 for debuff)
So as you can see, you are not going to have a permanent 3 stacks of this debuff on more than 5 add's tops. Even then it's doubtful it will be 'permanent' with the RNG of which targets are hit when. Most Spellstorm have the exact same rotation. That is CoI Tabbed, Shard, Steal Time, and either IT/SS/CS. None of these hit's more than 5 in any situation except CoI, which can hit more but is capped per tick. (And has no interaction with HV whatsoever.) IT can hit an infinite number for one stack, but without the DoT proc'ing the debuff and the usefulness of CS...well I'll let you decide.
SW set consistently gives it's full bonus. At least until combat drops. You will have those buffs off two casts of your encounters. This bonus applies to EVERY mob you hit, not just 5, as it is a team wide buff. I.E. Icy Terrain will receive it's benefit. Oppressive Force will receive it's benefit. Astral Singularity will receive it's benefit. Your entire team will receive this benefit with every strike, capped or not.
Compared to massive debuffs on five targets, if you're a Thaum, you decide what is valuable. Clearly people think HV is the best at killing trash that any DPS character can flatline without effort. I mean honestly, a faster trash clear? Who gives any craps about that? It's trash, which is by definition the easy part.
So it's to taste. Yeah, HV set is bar-none great for a Thaum who does additional debuff with Steal Time etc. etc. to five targets. Those five targets are dead men walking, but in reality you're going to have a lot of add's with one stack and five targets with 3 with no way whatsoever to target the debuffed ones over the one's who are not. I.E. it is RNG which targets will be debuffed, and by how much, depending on what you hit them with.
I think a lot of people's fascination with the HV set are related to bugs that were quashed a long time ago that were clearly OP. I'm trying to think of a boss fight where debuffing five targets is going to matter...and coming up blank.
Regardless, it is clear that HV does give a good damage boost. It is probably the best set to use, I'm not really arguing that point, I just think it's odd that people bash sets like Shadow Weaver for being inconsistent when it is clearly not as inconsistent as the HV sets bonus.
The more add's you're fighting, the more other sets are going to pull ahead of HV IMO. I fully plan on parsing both when I can find a team that wants to run the same dungeon twice in a row, in the same way, to really get a feel of what the actual difference is over the course of a full dungeon.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Ok, after testing both HV and SW's complete 4-set bonus I have come to a number of conclusions.
Firstly, HV is not consistent. It is not 100% uptime on 100% of enemies. Not even close. Unless you are running a control heavy build with EF on tab? No? Then it's moot. Here's a breakdown of what, exactly, HV does and how it does it. I've tried each and every ability with HV 4 set, and here it is. (Stolen from the wiki to save time, but I have tested these. It is accurate with the possible exception of Shield as I do not have that spell anymore.)
HIGH VIZIER'S:
Icy Terrain: Adds 1 stack of debuff to affected targets with intial cast. None on DoT. (Infinite Number)
Repel: Adds 1 stacks of buff, and 1 stack of debuff. (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's 3 stacks of buff with three targets, 1 stack of debuff per taret. (Max 5 targets)
Entangling Force: Adds one stack of buff to self, one stack of debuff to target (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's up to 3 stacks of buff with 3 targets hit, one stack of debuff to each target pulled. (Infinite targets?)
Steal Time: Adds 1 stack of buff, up to 3 stacks of debuff per target. (Max 5 targets)
Chill Strike: Add's 2 stacks of debuff to target, no buff to self. (Single Target)
(TAB) Adds 3 stacks of debuff to primary target, and 1 stack of debuff to all other affected targets. (Max 5 targets)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Adds 1 stack of debuff to targets affected by push. No effect from shard explosion. (Max 5 targets, likely 1 or 0 for debuff)
So as you can see, you are not going to have a permanent 3 stacks of this debuff on more than 5 add's tops. Even then it's doubtful it will be 'permanent' with the RNG of which targets are hit when. Most Spellstorm have the exact same rotation. That is CoI Tabbed, Shard, Steal Time, and either IT/SS/CS. None of these hit's more than 5 in any situation except CoI, which can hit more but is capped per tick. (And has no interaction with HV whatsoever.) IT can hit an infinite number for one stack, but without the DoT proc'ing the debuff and the usefulness of CS...well I'll let you decide.
SW set consistently gives it's full bonus. At least until combat drops. You will have those buffs off two casts of your encounters. This bonus applies to EVERY mob you hit, not just 5, as it is a team wide buff. I.E. Icy Terrain will receive it's benefit. Oppressive Force will receive it's benefit. Astral Singularity will receive it's benefit. Your entire team will receive this benefit with every strike, capped or not.
Compared to massive debuffs on five targets, if you're a Thaum, you decide what is valuable. Clearly people think HV is the best at killing trash that any DPS character can flatline without effort. I mean honestly, a faster trash clear? Who gives any craps about that? It's trash, which is by definition the easy part.
So it's to taste. Yeah, HV set is bar-none great for a Thaum who does additional debuff with Steal Time etc. etc. to five targets. Those five targets are dead men walking, but in reality you're going to have a lot of add's with one stack and five targets with 3 with no way whatsoever to target the debuffed ones over the one's who are not. I.E. it is RNG which targets will be debuffed, and by how much, depending on what you hit them with.
I think a lot of people's fascination with the HV set are related to bugs that were quashed a long time ago that were clearly OP. I'm trying to think of a boss fight where debuffing five targets is going to matter...and coming up blank.
Regardless, it is clear that HV does give a good damage boost. It is probably the best set to use, I'm not really arguing that point, I just think it's odd that people bash sets like Shadow Weaver for being inconsistent when it is clearly not as inconsistent as the HV sets bonus.
The more add's you're fighting, the more other sets are going to pull ahead of HV IMO. I fully plan on parsing both when I can find a team that wants to run the same dungeon twice in a row, in the same way, to really get a feel of what the actual difference is over the course of a full dungeon.
thanks for all this!
I pick up my reinforced SW gloves from the tailor in 3 hrs! cya at draco!
1. oppressive force adds 3 stacks to all targets in range
2. HV has a much better stat distribution than SW
3. SW has always had an uptime of 1 min with an ICD of 1 min, meaning 50% of the time it does nothing at all. Did you test if this is fixed or were all your tests < 1 min?
I agree that in runs with 3 CWs it's beneficial to have 1 SW and that 1 CW can't maintain 3 stacks of HV on all targets, but having 2 with HV is still superior to SW imo.
1. oppressive force adds 3 stacks to all targets in range
2. HV has a much better stat distribution than SW
3. SW has always had an uptime of 1 min with an ICD of 1 min, meaning 50% of the time it does nothing at all. Did you test if this is fixed or were all your tests < 1 min?
I agree that in runs with 3 CWs it's beneficial to have 1 SW and that 1 CW can't maintain 3 stacks of HV on all targets, but having 2 with HV is still superior to SW imo.
I was running one minute actually, it's what I usually do. I had noticed it dropping off after I stopped rotating my abilities but perhaps incorrectly assumed that it was because I stopped attacking. I did not think to check for an internal cooldown of over one minute...I had heard people mention that it had one, but never a time frame and assumed any ICD would be anywhere from 10-30 seconds at most. I'll need to retry that now >.<
EDIT:
Yeah, I see your point. Oppressive Force giving the debuff is a big deal. Unquestionable best with just that one point. I'd heard that effect was fixed, guess not. Should have checked that first, would have saved me an hour or so lol
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Ok, after testing both HV and SW's complete 4-set bonus I have come to a number of conclusions.
Firstly, HV is not consistent. It is not 100% uptime on 100% of enemies. Not even close. Unless you are running a control heavy build with EF on tab? No? Then it's moot. Here's a breakdown of what, exactly, HV does and how it does it. I've tried each and every ability with HV 4 set, and here it is. (Stolen from the wiki to save time, but I have tested these. It is accurate with the possible exception of Shield as I do not have that spell anymore.)
HIGH VIZIER'S:
Icy Terrain: Adds 1 stack of debuff to affected targets with intial cast. None on DoT. (Infinite Number)
Repel: Adds 1 stacks of buff, and 1 stack of debuff. (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's 3 stacks of buff with three targets, 1 stack of debuff per taret. (Max 5 targets)
Entangling Force: Adds one stack of buff to self, one stack of debuff to target (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's up to 3 stacks of buff with 3 targets hit, one stack of debuff to each target pulled. (Infinite targets?)
Steal Time: Adds 1 stack of buff, up to 3 stacks of debuff per target. (Max 5 targets)
Chill Strike: Add's 2 stacks of debuff to target, no buff to self. (Single Target)
(TAB) Adds 3 stacks of debuff to primary target, and 1 stack of debuff to all other affected targets. (Max 5 targets)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Adds 1 stack of debuff to targets affected by push. No effect from shard explosion. (Max 5 targets, likely 1 or 0 for debuff)
So as you can see, you are not going to have a permanent 3 stacks of this debuff on more than 5 add's tops. Even then it's doubtful it will be 'permanent' with the RNG of which targets are hit when. Most Spellstorm have the exact same rotation. That is CoI Tabbed, Shard, Steal Time, and either IT/SS/CS. None of these hit's more than 5 in any situation except CoI, which can hit more but is capped per tick. (And has no interaction with HV whatsoever.) IT can hit an infinite number for one stack, but without the DoT proc'ing the debuff and the usefulness of CS...well I'll let you decide.
SW set consistently gives it's full bonus. At least until combat drops. You will have those buffs off two casts of your encounters. This bonus applies to EVERY mob you hit, not just 5, as it is a team wide buff. I.E. Icy Terrain will receive it's benefit. Oppressive Force will receive it's benefit. Astral Singularity will receive it's benefit. Your entire team will receive this benefit with every strike, capped or not.
Compared to massive debuffs on five targets, if you're a Thaum, you decide what is valuable. Clearly people think HV is the best at killing trash that any DPS character can flatline without effort. I mean honestly, a faster trash clear? Who gives any craps about that? It's trash, which is by definition the easy part.
So it's to taste. Yeah, HV set is bar-none great for a Thaum who does additional debuff with Steal Time etc. etc. to five targets. Those five targets are dead men walking, but in reality you're going to have a lot of add's with one stack and five targets with 3 with no way whatsoever to target the debuffed ones over the one's who are not. I.E. it is RNG which targets will be debuffed, and by how much, depending on what you hit them with.
I think a lot of people's fascination with the HV set are related to bugs that were quashed a long time ago that were clearly OP. I'm trying to think of a boss fight where debuffing five targets is going to matter...and coming up blank.
Regardless, it is clear that HV does give a good damage boost. It is probably the best set to use, I'm not really arguing that point, I just think it's odd that people bash sets like Shadow Weaver for being inconsistent when it is clearly not as inconsistent as the HV sets bonus.
The more add's you're fighting, the more other sets are going to pull ahead of HV IMO. I fully plan on parsing both when I can find a team that wants to run the same dungeon twice in a row, in the same way, to really get a feel of what the actual difference is over the course of a full dungeon.
Mostly correct facts, peculiar conclusion.
You do realize that the debuffs are applied BEFORE damage calculation on every strike? This immediately makes shard hit 20% harder on non-debuffed target and if my ancient experiment still holds shardsplosion does finish up the stacks to 3/3. Just as an example.
Steal time hits 10% harder, etc etc...
Furthermore, this damage boost applies to the entire team on affected mobs.
And when there is a large blob of mobs together you use OF on them, they are ALL instantly debuffed with 3/3 stacks for 6 whole seconds, many of those are refreshed by your further attacks.
Those were just examples, it will take whole pages to describe what tactics and abilities a HV set lets you use and how it also passively adds to your survivability allowing you to take certain risks.
HV is by far the most versatile pve set, you will not find a top CW using anything else. It's that simple.
edit:
OF was indeed fixed, it no longer applies a 40% debuff NO MATTER WHAT.
But it has no target cap and will make sure all affected mobs are 3/3.
The first point I want to clarify is the stat distribution.
Even if you have very good stat (or bad stat) on 4 pieces of gear, you can easily adapt ALL you're other stuff to obtain the value wanted on each stat.
For example :
SW give a lot of Crit but no Regen. So I will add only the minimum of Crit but more on Regen. It will be the contrary if I use HV.
The second point is about uptime and why this set bonus are balanced.
The 2 set give both a offensive and a defensive buff. And the value isn't chosen from nowhere.
But I see a little difference :
>> SW set have a buff that apply to the whole group and is easy to apply with a good up-time. The defence buff is very good and the buff is very useful. A +18% crit severity buff can do a +4% damage augmentation, depending on the path, the crit chance, etc.
>> HV set is both a buff to self and a debuff on affected target. The defence buff is good but is only on you. The offensive's debuff is very good but only on the CW's target and can't be maintained as easily.
My conclusion on this :
1- Best defence buff come from SW as it affect the whole group and is easy to keep on.
2- Best damage buff come from HV as it effect is bigger but it have some limitation.
Limitation of the HV set :
If the target is scattered or in two group, only part of them will be debuff.
If CW is on add duty while the group is on the boss then add will be debuffed but not the boss.
Best point of the HV set :
If the add is packed on the boss (singularity bot), HV's debuff is amazing.
Limitation of the SW set :
If the encounter cooldown is too long, then stack of buff can drop, reducing it effectiveness.
If the fight need huge movement or have a lot of interruption, then encounter could be casted too late resulting in stack drop.
best point of the SW set :
It increase Crit severity for heal too. And TR will love you.
edit:
OF was indeed fixed, it no longer applies a 40% debuff NO MATTER WHAT.
But it has no target cap and will make sure all affected mobs are 3/3.
Aye, I mistakenly interpreted the bug being fixed as removing the stacks that HV applied with Oppressive Force. My mistake, but OF being uncapped makes keeping the debuff on targets much more possible than otherwise.
No idea why SW's set bonus would have a minute long cooldown when both it's bonuses are overall best for lifesteal healing. I had thought that it would help more with Chaotic Growth, but frankly CG seems glitched. Not sure if it's giving bonus lifesteal of 1%, healing with a HoT for 1%, or adding 1% regen but no matter how it works it falls off long before it's supposed 10 second timer is complete.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
HVs usability can be debated at preclear but at boss Fight I am standing by Draco/Dwarf King and putting 3 HV stack all the time with steal time.
SW can't beat that I think.
My opinion is 2HV/1SW is best at hard boss fights but preclear can be different.
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chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Lol, I think it's funny that you've taken personal offense to something that wasn't even directed at you. Please point out exactly where I said Vorpal is the only enchant to use and DoTs, debuffs and control are useless? I don't believe any of those things, I just think that MoF is useless in every situation except Draco (multiple high health targets for DoTs to tick on) and that makes it garbage because we overgear everything now and Draco is easy with a good group so I go SS, HV, Thaum to clear trash faster. My "rant" was directed at someone who I've seen constantly advocating stacking tons of crit sev without even understanding how it works, so I was explaining the error in his thinking.
As to why you get groups? Because good players are good and they'll always find friends to run dungeons with. I've been outdamaging 14k P. Vorp CWs since I was a 9k lesser flaming ****. Most people are terrible so the good players stand out and stick together.
Actually man, I wasn't upset with you - you seem pretty reasonable. The crit serverity thing is true too - which is why at 50% crit chance P. Vorpal is 18.181818% dps increase (as far as I know)
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited February 2014
So much stuff here ^^ Lots of the thoughts are good and correct, as I think the majority of us here are experienced players and have done a lot of thought, math, and playing neverwinter.
I'm the only MoF CW here, so what i've noticed:
There is no question that spellstorm is better and does more damage on the clear. I'm not even going to argue the point, because when mobs die in 2-3 seconds, all those DoTs and debuffs i throw on don't time to act. That's true, especially when we are running these 16k+ parties with perfect vorpals.
That said, at bossfights, MoF with DoT and debuff is very useful, especially in combo with spellstorm, because the smolder stacks are refresh by other players - enhancing everyone's DPS.
A similar argument could be said about weapon enchants, a lot of vorpal enchantments will undoubtedly clear faster, but stacking terror, plaguefire, and debuffs will be more effective at bosses.
So why did I pick a build that shines at draco but is sub-optimal clearing? simply because the clear is so easy and so fast a monkey could pick my feats and I would barely notice. At these high gear scores, it hardly matters. Only way a run can go wrong is lagspike + wipe at draco, or maybe you aren't running with the A team and some of the newer players struggle at draco, or there is a snowstorm and someone disconnects, or you know... whatever. sht happens sometimes. That's where this build does better than a spellstorm glass cannon. Lose paingiver on the clear, sure, but who cares about the clear? it's stupid easy. At least, that's my thought.
As to suits, we typically run a mix of HV and SW. I am not sure if 2:1 or 1:2 is better, but i think 1 of each is better than 2 of both. The reason MoF like shadoweaver is that our best class feature comes from crit, so having crit up near 3k is useful. That much crit is wasted on spellstorm, because with EotS, our tests are showing that crit is not a very important stat. I'll watch some more spellstorms the next few runs, but EotS gives people the luxury of ignoring crit until they are near max gear, and still critting all the time.
Actually man, I wasn't upset with you - you seem pretty reasonable. The crit serverity thing is true too - which is why at 50% crit chance P. Vorpal is 18.181818% dps increase (as far as I know)
So much stuff here ^^ Lots of the thoughts are good and correct, as I think the majority of us here are experienced players and have done a lot of thought, math, and playing neverwinter.
I'm the only MoF CW here, so what i've noticed:
There is no question that spellstorm is better and does more damage on the clear. I'm not even going to argue the point, because when mobs die in 2-3 seconds, all those DoTs and debuffs i throw on don't time to act. That's true, especially when we are running these 16k+ parties with perfect vorpals.
That said, at bossfights, MoF with DoT and debuff is very useful, especially in combo with spellstorm, because the smolder stacks are refresh by other players - enhancing everyone's DPS.
A similar argument could be said about weapon enchants, a lot of vorpal enchantments will undoubtedly clear faster, but stacking terror, plaguefire, and debuffs will be more effective at bosses.
So why did I pick a build that shines at draco but is sub-optimal clearing? simply because the clear is so easy and so fast a monkey could pick my feats and I would barely notice. At these high gear scores, it hardly matters. Only way a run can go wrong is lagspike + wipe at draco, or maybe you aren't running with the A team and some of the newer players struggle at draco, or there is a snowstorm and someone disconnects, or you know... whatever. sht happens sometimes. That's where this build does better than a spellstorm glass cannon. Lose paingiver on the clear, sure, but who cares about the clear? it's stupid easy. At least, that's my thought.
As to suits, we typically run a mix of HV and SW. I am not sure if 2:1 or 1:2 is better, but i think 1 of each is better than 2 of both. The reason MoF like shadoweaver is that our best class feature comes from crit, so having crit up near 3k is useful. That much crit is wasted on spellstorm, because with EotS, our tests are showing that crit is not a very important stat. I'll watch some more spellstorms the next few runs, but EotS gives people the luxury of ignoring crit until they are near max gear, and still critting all the time.
In your own post you showed that pvorp adds 18.2% DPS, which I am impressed to say is correct.
However it is ONLY correct for 50% crit.
For 30% crit it becomes 12.244%, a significant drop in pvorp effectiveness if you aren't spellstorm.
So how is a debuff from terror or GPF supposed to compare to this dps increase? It can't.
We have ran an experiment a while ago, one of our 3-4 CW instead of vizier put on 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled for 900 more power. No increase in damage was observed, in fact, the person in question did a bit worse than before despite having roughly 5-10 % dps increase from power.
This showed that many mobs are not debuffed by HV and that the only way to ensure you get dps buffs is if you have HV yourself because debuffs are applied before the damage of the strike that debuffed them.
So while power gave him more dps on paper in practice HV was giving much more.
It will be even more true for SW, expect to do 10-20 % less damage JUST because of the set.
In your own post you showed that pvorp adds 18.2% DPS, which I am impressed to say is correct.
However it is ONLY correct for 50% crit.
For 30% crit it becomes 12.244%, a significant drop in pvorp effectiveness if you aren't spellstorm.
So how is a debuff from terror or GPF supposed to compare to this dps increase? It can't.
We have ran an experiment a while ago, one of our 3-4 CW instead of vizier put on 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled for 900 more power. No increase in damage was observed, in fact, the person in question did a bit worse than before despite having roughly 5-10 % dps increase from power.
This showed that many mobs are not debuffed by HV and that the only way to ensure you get dps buffs is if you have HV yourself because debuffs are applied before the damage of the strike that debuffed them.
So while power gave him more dps on paper in practice HV was giving much more.
It will be even more true for SW, expect to do 10-20 % less damage JUST because of the set.
Ive also had similar results where in many runs I would start out with HV set and compare my dmg to the other CWs halfway thru the run, then when I switched to the two 2-piece set to compare dmg, my dmg almost always dropped comparative to the other CWs, even tho i expected my DPS to increase because the other CW/s had HV.
I have not taken off the HV set since.
The thing is that lifesteal scales with damage, which makes SW the set to wear if you're going without a Cleric. Or it would be, if it was 100% uptime. That's probably why there's a cooldown, the developers knew DC's would eventually become moot and they don't want CW's being the DPS, Control, and Healing class.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The thing is that lifesteal scales with damage, which makes SW the set to wear if you're going without a Cleric. Or it would be, if it was 100% uptime. That's probably why there's a cooldown, the developers knew DC's would eventually become moot and they don't want CW's being the DPS, Control, and Healing class.
If that were a concern of the devs they probably wouldn't have made it so easy to stack to 10% lifesteal soft cap without impacting other softcaps.
My guess is it's bugged just like HV was for all that time and they don't know how to fix it. Since it's not game breaking like HV was (in fact the bug makes the set weaker) it isn't high on the priority list.
If that were a concern of the devs they probably wouldn't have made it so easy to stack to 10% lifesteal soft cap without impacting other softcaps.
My guess is it's bugged just like HV was for all that time and they don't know how to fix it. Since it's not game breaking like HV was (in fact the bug makes the set weaker) it isn't high on the priority list.
I don't know if it's a bug or working as intended. Much like how people assume that because ARP doesn't work on all CW abilities that it must be a bug as opposed to a way to ensure that CW do less damage. Given that none of the base stats a wizard gets add ARP, I'd say it's pretty likely that the developers don't want ARP to work on all CW abilities. It's just as likely that some abilities getting the ARP bonus are working incorrectly and doing more damage than intended.
Either way it's really hard to tell with Cryptic. Is it a bug, or a nonsense design decision made for unknowable illogical reasons? Kind of like how different sets consider different abilities to be control or attack.
It doesn't make any kind of consistent sense.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
The thing is that lifesteal scales with damage, which makes SW the set to wear if you're going without a Cleric. Or it would be, if it was 100% uptime. That's probably why there's a cooldown, the developers knew DC's would eventually become moot and they don't want CW's being the DPS, Control, and Healing class.
By that reasoning HV still stands as the best set to wear with Life Steal in mind since its damage output is superior. Building a decent level of Life Steal for PvE is simple enough and complements the Regen on HV quite nicely.
I don't know if it's a bug or working as intended. Much like how people assume that because ARP doesn't work on all CW abilities that it must be a bug as opposed to a way to ensure that CW do less damage. Given that none of the base stats a wizard gets add ARP, I'd say it's pretty likely that the developers don't want ARP to work on all CW abilities. It's just as likely that some abilities getting the ARP bonus are working incorrectly and doing more damage than intended.
Either way it's really hard to tell with Cryptic. Is it a bug, or a nonsense design decision made for unknowable illogical reasons? Kind of like how different sets consider different abilities to be control or attack.
It doesn't make any kind of consistent sense.
not really. Arp from stat's is an afterthought added after the game was launched as a bandaid buff to the fighter classes (that is GWF and GF) because at the time it was very difficult being a class having to stack all stats (both offensive and defensive) to do their job. With bloat from gear/boons/cheaper enchants/etc it's not really an issue any longer but at the time it was very needed.
For some reason they gave that same bonus to HR, a class that gets arp on everything anyway, for no real reason that I can see. CW, TR, and DC do not receive arp from stats still, and TR at least doesn't have any issues of the sort that CW abilities do.
not really. Arp from stat's is an afterthought added after the game was launched as a bandaid buff to the fighter classes (that is GWF and GF) because at the time it was very difficult being a class having to stack all stats (both offensive and defensive) to do their job. With bloat from gear/boons/cheaper enchants/etc it's not really an issue any longer but at the time it was very needed.
For some reason they gave that same bonus to HR, a class that gets arp on everything anyway, for no real reason that I can see. CW, TR, and DC do not receive arp from stats still, and TR at least doesn't have any issues of the sort that CW abilities do.
Nope, I was playing in beta and con has always been listed as adding to ARP for fighters. It simply didn't actually work as advertised for a period of time. My main was, and is, a GWF.
I imagine HR gets a bonus to ARP for the same reason fighters do. They are intended to be damage primary.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2014
Nope i was playing in beta too and it was added to fighters later. It was not original. There is really no justification for hrs to have the same bonus other than lazy programming.
I'm only a recent player here, but I have some years in theoricrafting.
And for me, I can tell it's a common practice : instead of resolving bug and nerf/buff class, they keep some "useful" bug partly alive to keep number where they want it.
Smolder/Rimefire is for me a good example.
Those who play MoF can see sometime some "big" mob literally melt under a lot of crit from nowhere. It's just that the condition make smolder/rimefire work like wanted.
If I take the 2014 buglist :
Arm Pen - it nerf some spell that would do too much aoe and generate big aggro. It also help reducing the gap between well gear/just 60 CW.
Smolder/rimefire - keep damage in check as it could be too powerful in AOE otherwise.
Sudden Storm - if it was classed as AOE, it could do 10%/25% more damage, if not a lot more when on Tab
All of this can be resolved but it certainly need a lot of time for redoing balance and testing.
Other wait because of a lack of resource for the dev (people and/or time).
But some are to correct, Set Bonus in first. If 3x -450 def is too powerful. Why don't they nerf it to 1 or 2 stack or 150 def instead ?
It's better for the game to have the minimum of exception.
For SW, if +18% life steal is too much, why not changing the bonus to be only +9% when full stack ?
Maybe internal calculation is too much a mess to help making easy modification.
But don't fear, it take a few year to Blizzard to correct this situation. Now, the communicate a lot more about buff/nerf but bug don't last until they have decided to keep it alive for some reason.
People from my guild exp CWs ~15K GS all run 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled and all have advised me to drop HV and to aim for 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled, since apperntly I lack power.
I am spellstorm/thaum build ~13K GS with HV 4/4 and ~4200 power,2300 armP,3300 rec,30% crit,...
So, would i benefit from +900 power and -450 recovery, i mean is HV really better than 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled ?
For boss fights in CN/VT which set is better ?
0
tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
People from my guild exp CWs ~15K GS all run 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled and all have advised me to drop HV and to aim for 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled, since apperntly I lack power.
I am spellstorm/thaum build ~13K GS with HV 4/4 and ~4200 power,2300 armP,3300 rec,30% crit,...
So, would i benefit from +900 power and -450 recovery, i mean is HV really better than 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled ?
People from my guild exp CWs ~15K GS all run 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled and all have advised me to drop HV and to aim for 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled, since apperntly I lack power.
I am spellstorm/thaum build ~13K GS with HV 4/4 and ~4200 power,2300 armP,3300 rec,30% crit,...
So, would i benefit from +900 power and -450 recovery, i mean is HV really better than 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled ?
For boss fights in CN/VT which set is better ?
Again, Power is nice, but it isn't everything. Players tend to hugely overestimate its benefit.
For pure PvE DPS builds, stacking Power to 6-7k is fine as long as you don't give up your HV to get there. Personally I prefer to diversify my stats a bit for better overall survivability in PvE and PvP since you can wreck any PvE situation without going crazy on Power.
Forget about 450 defense, that's what it gives YOU.
What it takes away is another matter, and that is 10% per stack up to 3. Takes mitigation past 0...
It beats all other sets by a huge margin, any CW that doesn't use it is bad, no exceptions.
Forget about 450 defense, that's what it gives YOU.
What it takes away is another matter, and that is 10% per stack up to 3. Takes mitigation past 0...
It beats all other sets by a huge margin, any CW that doesn't use it is bad, no exceptions.
I personally feel like the CW's that use the 2x 2-piece set are only trying to get the highest GS possible and/or trying to only benefit themselves, not being a team player.
I personally feel like the CW's that use the 2x 2-piece set are only trying to get the highest GS possible and/or trying to only benefit themselves, not being a team player.
Yeah, pretty much this. I've seen CWs pushing 17.5k or so GS, but I can tell you a CW running HV is more useful and those that use companions to boost their gear score are bad... A properly geared CW in 10s and with proper companions will be ~16.2-16.5
Nothing new to add - I just want to echo some sentiments:
1. 2+2 and stat boosting pets are terrible. People who use them simply have no idea how the game works.
2. HV is the best set in the game, for any class, followed by HP (DC), which gives the same debuff on mobs, but has a shorter duration and is harder to stack on everything, though it's easier to stack and keep up on bosses most of the time.
Comments
We're not even arguing, you're just stuck on a typo on my part.
When you assume that critical damage refers to the bonus damage a critical does than yeah, the difference in bonus damage is increased by 18%. That doesn't mean it raises the overall damage the attack does by 18%. I wasn't being clear enough, and I should not have said 'critical strike'. My fault.
I also have never said to 'stack tons of crit'. Anywhere. I've made it clear, several times, that I am not saying that. Period.
We are agreeing. The only difference being what item exactly on which slot exactly should be used, with there being no right answer as long as target numbers are met. Well, that and I think MoF is fun. Not optimal; fun.
And there you have it.
Firstly, HV is not consistent. It is not 100% uptime on 100% of enemies. Not even close. Unless you are running a control heavy build with EF on tab? No? Then it's moot. Here's a breakdown of what, exactly, HV does and how it does it. I've tried each and every ability with HV 4 set, and here it is. (Stolen from the wiki to save time, but I have tested these. It is accurate with the possible exception of Shield as I do not have that spell anymore.)
HIGH VIZIER'S:
Icy Terrain: Adds 1 stack of debuff to affected targets with intial cast. None on DoT. (Infinite Number)
Repel: Adds 1 stacks of buff, and 1 stack of debuff. (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's 3 stacks of buff with three targets, 1 stack of debuff per taret. (Max 5 targets)
Entangling Force: Adds one stack of buff to self, one stack of debuff to target (Single Target)
(TAB) Add's up to 3 stacks of buff with 3 targets hit, one stack of debuff to each target pulled. (Infinite targets?)
Steal Time: Adds 1 stack of buff, up to 3 stacks of debuff per target. (Max 5 targets)
Shield Burst: Adds up to 3 stacks of buff on self with 3 affected targets, and 1 stack of debuff on each target. (Max 5 targets)
I was unable to actually test this one. I spec'ed out of Shield when burst was capped.
Chill Strike: Add's 2 stacks of debuff to target, no buff to self. (Single Target)
(TAB) Adds 3 stacks of debuff to primary target, and 1 stack of debuff to all other affected targets. (Max 5 targets)
Shard of the Endless Avalanche: Adds 1 stack of debuff to targets affected by push. No effect from shard explosion. (Max 5 targets, likely 1 or 0 for debuff)
So as you can see, you are not going to have a permanent 3 stacks of this debuff on more than 5 add's tops. Even then it's doubtful it will be 'permanent' with the RNG of which targets are hit when. Most Spellstorm have the exact same rotation. That is CoI Tabbed, Shard, Steal Time, and either IT/SS/CS. None of these hit's more than 5 in any situation except CoI, which can hit more but is capped per tick. (And has no interaction with HV whatsoever.) IT can hit an infinite number for one stack, but without the DoT proc'ing the debuff and the usefulness of CS...well I'll let you decide.
SW set consistently gives it's full bonus. At least until combat drops. You will have those buffs off two casts of your encounters. This bonus applies to EVERY mob you hit, not just 5, as it is a team wide buff. I.E. Icy Terrain will receive it's benefit. Oppressive Force will receive it's benefit. Astral Singularity will receive it's benefit. Your entire team will receive this benefit with every strike, capped or not.
Compared to massive debuffs on five targets, if you're a Thaum, you decide what is valuable. Clearly people think HV is the best at killing trash that any DPS character can flatline without effort. I mean honestly, a faster trash clear? Who gives any craps about that? It's trash, which is by definition the easy part.
So it's to taste. Yeah, HV set is bar-none great for a Thaum who does additional debuff with Steal Time etc. etc. to five targets. Those five targets are dead men walking, but in reality you're going to have a lot of add's with one stack and five targets with 3 with no way whatsoever to target the debuffed ones over the one's who are not. I.E. it is RNG which targets will be debuffed, and by how much, depending on what you hit them with.
I think a lot of people's fascination with the HV set are related to bugs that were quashed a long time ago that were clearly OP. I'm trying to think of a boss fight where debuffing five targets is going to matter...and coming up blank.
Regardless, it is clear that HV does give a good damage boost. It is probably the best set to use, I'm not really arguing that point, I just think it's odd that people bash sets like Shadow Weaver for being inconsistent when it is clearly not as inconsistent as the HV sets bonus.
The more add's you're fighting, the more other sets are going to pull ahead of HV IMO. I fully plan on parsing both when I can find a team that wants to run the same dungeon twice in a row, in the same way, to really get a feel of what the actual difference is over the course of a full dungeon.
thanks for all this!
I pick up my reinforced SW gloves from the tailor in 3 hrs! cya at draco!
1. oppressive force adds 3 stacks to all targets in range
2. HV has a much better stat distribution than SW
3. SW has always had an uptime of 1 min with an ICD of 1 min, meaning 50% of the time it does nothing at all. Did you test if this is fixed or were all your tests < 1 min?
I agree that in runs with 3 CWs it's beneficial to have 1 SW and that 1 CW can't maintain 3 stacks of HV on all targets, but having 2 with HV is still superior to SW imo.
I was running one minute actually, it's what I usually do. I had noticed it dropping off after I stopped rotating my abilities but perhaps incorrectly assumed that it was because I stopped attacking. I did not think to check for an internal cooldown of over one minute...I had heard people mention that it had one, but never a time frame and assumed any ICD would be anywhere from 10-30 seconds at most. I'll need to retry that now >.<
EDIT:
Yeah, I see your point. Oppressive Force giving the debuff is a big deal. Unquestionable best with just that one point. I'd heard that effect was fixed, guess not. Should have checked that first, would have saved me an hour or so lol
Mostly correct facts, peculiar conclusion.
You do realize that the debuffs are applied BEFORE damage calculation on every strike? This immediately makes shard hit 20% harder on non-debuffed target and if my ancient experiment still holds shardsplosion does finish up the stacks to 3/3. Just as an example.
Steal time hits 10% harder, etc etc...
Furthermore, this damage boost applies to the entire team on affected mobs.
And when there is a large blob of mobs together you use OF on them, they are ALL instantly debuffed with 3/3 stacks for 6 whole seconds, many of those are refreshed by your further attacks.
Those were just examples, it will take whole pages to describe what tactics and abilities a HV set lets you use and how it also passively adds to your survivability allowing you to take certain risks.
HV is by far the most versatile pve set, you will not find a top CW using anything else. It's that simple.
edit:
OF was indeed fixed, it no longer applies a 40% debuff NO MATTER WHAT.
But it has no target cap and will make sure all affected mobs are 3/3.
Even if you have very good stat (or bad stat) on 4 pieces of gear, you can easily adapt ALL you're other stuff to obtain the value wanted on each stat.
For example :
SW give a lot of Crit but no Regen. So I will add only the minimum of Crit but more on Regen. It will be the contrary if I use HV.
The second point is about uptime and why this set bonus are balanced.
The 2 set give both a offensive and a defensive buff. And the value isn't chosen from nowhere.
But I see a little difference :
>> SW set have a buff that apply to the whole group and is easy to apply with a good up-time. The defence buff is very good and the buff is very useful. A +18% crit severity buff can do a +4% damage augmentation, depending on the path, the crit chance, etc.
>> HV set is both a buff to self and a debuff on affected target. The defence buff is good but is only on you. The offensive's debuff is very good but only on the CW's target and can't be maintained as easily.
My conclusion on this :
1- Best defence buff come from SW as it affect the whole group and is easy to keep on.
2- Best damage buff come from HV as it effect is bigger but it have some limitation.
Limitation of the HV set :
If the target is scattered or in two group, only part of them will be debuff.
If CW is on add duty while the group is on the boss then add will be debuffed but not the boss.
Best point of the HV set :
If the add is packed on the boss (singularity bot), HV's debuff is amazing.
Limitation of the SW set :
If the encounter cooldown is too long, then stack of buff can drop, reducing it effectiveness.
If the fight need huge movement or have a lot of interruption, then encounter could be casted too late resulting in stack drop.
best point of the SW set :
It increase Crit severity for heal too. And TR will love you.
Aye, I mistakenly interpreted the bug being fixed as removing the stacks that HV applied with Oppressive Force. My mistake, but OF being uncapped makes keeping the debuff on targets much more possible than otherwise.
No idea why SW's set bonus would have a minute long cooldown when both it's bonuses are overall best for lifesteal healing. I had thought that it would help more with Chaotic Growth, but frankly CG seems glitched. Not sure if it's giving bonus lifesteal of 1%, healing with a HoT for 1%, or adding 1% regen but no matter how it works it falls off long before it's supposed 10 second timer is complete.
SW can't beat that I think.
My opinion is 2HV/1SW is best at hard boss fights but preclear can be different.
Actually man, I wasn't upset with you - you seem pretty reasonable. The crit serverity thing is true too - which is why at 50% crit chance P. Vorpal is 18.181818% dps increase (as far as I know)
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
I'm the only MoF CW here, so what i've noticed:
There is no question that spellstorm is better and does more damage on the clear. I'm not even going to argue the point, because when mobs die in 2-3 seconds, all those DoTs and debuffs i throw on don't time to act. That's true, especially when we are running these 16k+ parties with perfect vorpals.
That said, at bossfights, MoF with DoT and debuff is very useful, especially in combo with spellstorm, because the smolder stacks are refresh by other players - enhancing everyone's DPS.
A similar argument could be said about weapon enchants, a lot of vorpal enchantments will undoubtedly clear faster, but stacking terror, plaguefire, and debuffs will be more effective at bosses.
So why did I pick a build that shines at draco but is sub-optimal clearing? simply because the clear is so easy and so fast a monkey could pick my feats and I would barely notice. At these high gear scores, it hardly matters. Only way a run can go wrong is lagspike + wipe at draco, or maybe you aren't running with the A team and some of the newer players struggle at draco, or there is a snowstorm and someone disconnects, or you know... whatever. sht happens sometimes. That's where this build does better than a spellstorm glass cannon. Lose paingiver on the clear, sure, but who cares about the clear? it's stupid easy. At least, that's my thought.
As to suits, we typically run a mix of HV and SW. I am not sure if 2:1 or 1:2 is better, but i think 1 of each is better than 2 of both. The reason MoF like shadoweaver is that our best class feature comes from crit, so having crit up near 3k is useful. That much crit is wasted on spellstorm, because with EotS, our tests are showing that crit is not a very important stat. I'll watch some more spellstorms the next few runs, but EotS gives people the luxury of ignoring crit until they are near max gear, and still critting all the time.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
In your own post you showed that pvorp adds 18.2% DPS, which I am impressed to say is correct.
However it is ONLY correct for 50% crit.
For 30% crit it becomes 12.244%, a significant drop in pvorp effectiveness if you aren't spellstorm.
So how is a debuff from terror or GPF supposed to compare to this dps increase? It can't.
We have ran an experiment a while ago, one of our 3-4 CW instead of vizier put on 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled for 900 more power. No increase in damage was observed, in fact, the person in question did a bit worse than before despite having roughly 5-10 % dps increase from power.
This showed that many mobs are not debuffed by HV and that the only way to ensure you get dps buffs is if you have HV yourself because debuffs are applied before the damage of the strike that debuffed them.
So while power gave him more dps on paper in practice HV was giving much more.
It will be even more true for SW, expect to do 10-20 % less damage JUST because of the set.
Ive also had similar results where in many runs I would start out with HV set and compare my dmg to the other CWs halfway thru the run, then when I switched to the two 2-piece set to compare dmg, my dmg almost always dropped comparative to the other CWs, even tho i expected my DPS to increase because the other CW/s had HV.
I have not taken off the HV set since.
If that were a concern of the devs they probably wouldn't have made it so easy to stack to 10% lifesteal soft cap without impacting other softcaps.
My guess is it's bugged just like HV was for all that time and they don't know how to fix it. Since it's not game breaking like HV was (in fact the bug makes the set weaker) it isn't high on the priority list.
I don't know if it's a bug or working as intended. Much like how people assume that because ARP doesn't work on all CW abilities that it must be a bug as opposed to a way to ensure that CW do less damage. Given that none of the base stats a wizard gets add ARP, I'd say it's pretty likely that the developers don't want ARP to work on all CW abilities. It's just as likely that some abilities getting the ARP bonus are working incorrectly and doing more damage than intended.
Either way it's really hard to tell with Cryptic. Is it a bug, or a nonsense design decision made for unknowable illogical reasons? Kind of like how different sets consider different abilities to be control or attack.
It doesn't make any kind of consistent sense.
By that reasoning HV still stands as the best set to wear with Life Steal in mind since its damage output is superior. Building a decent level of Life Steal for PvE is simple enough and complements the Regen on HV quite nicely.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
not really. Arp from stat's is an afterthought added after the game was launched as a bandaid buff to the fighter classes (that is GWF and GF) because at the time it was very difficult being a class having to stack all stats (both offensive and defensive) to do their job. With bloat from gear/boons/cheaper enchants/etc it's not really an issue any longer but at the time it was very needed.
For some reason they gave that same bonus to HR, a class that gets arp on everything anyway, for no real reason that I can see. CW, TR, and DC do not receive arp from stats still, and TR at least doesn't have any issues of the sort that CW abilities do.
Nope, I was playing in beta and con has always been listed as adding to ARP for fighters. It simply didn't actually work as advertised for a period of time. My main was, and is, a GWF.
I might be wrong since it's been a while, but I quite clearly remember when I did my first respec that it was because ARP from con was clearly not working as intended. Look up some of Trickshaw's ARP post's from about six or seven months ago. (http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?295121-MUST-READ-Trickshaw-s-Testing-Why-Con-is-useless-amp-the-hidden-DPS-blastcap) He was always a good read, sad to say he quit about when I did.
I imagine HR gets a bonus to ARP for the same reason fighters do. They are intended to be damage primary.
And for me, I can tell it's a common practice : instead of resolving bug and nerf/buff class, they keep some "useful" bug partly alive to keep number where they want it.
Smolder/Rimefire is for me a good example.
Those who play MoF can see sometime some "big" mob literally melt under a lot of crit from nowhere. It's just that the condition make smolder/rimefire work like wanted.
If I take the 2014 buglist :
Arm Pen - it nerf some spell that would do too much aoe and generate big aggro. It also help reducing the gap between well gear/just 60 CW.
Smolder/rimefire - keep damage in check as it could be too powerful in AOE otherwise.
Sudden Storm - if it was classed as AOE, it could do 10%/25% more damage, if not a lot more when on Tab
All of this can be resolved but it certainly need a lot of time for redoing balance and testing.
Other wait because of a lack of resource for the dev (people and/or time).
But some are to correct, Set Bonus in first. If 3x -450 def is too powerful. Why don't they nerf it to 1 or 2 stack or 150 def instead ?
It's better for the game to have the minimum of exception.
For SW, if +18% life steal is too much, why not changing the bonus to be only +9% when full stack ?
Maybe internal calculation is too much a mess to help making easy modification.
But don't fear, it take a few year to Blizzard to correct this situation. Now, the communicate a lot more about buff/nerf but bug don't last until they have decided to keep it alive for some reason.
People from my guild exp CWs ~15K GS all run 2/4 dread and 2/4 fabled and all have advised me to drop HV and to aim for 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled, since apperntly I lack power.
I am spellstorm/thaum build ~13K GS with HV 4/4 and ~4200 power,2300 armP,3300 rec,30% crit,...
So, would i benefit from +900 power and -450 recovery, i mean is HV really better than 2/4 DR + 2/4 fabled ?
For boss fights in CN/VT which set is better ?
Again, Power is nice, but it isn't everything. Players tend to hugely overestimate its benefit.
For pure PvE DPS builds, stacking Power to 6-7k is fine as long as you don't give up your HV to get there. Personally I prefer to diversify my stats a bit for better overall survivability in PvE and PvP since you can wreck any PvE situation without going crazy on Power.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
What it takes away is another matter, and that is 10% per stack up to 3. Takes mitigation past 0...
It beats all other sets by a huge margin, any CW that doesn't use it is bad, no exceptions.
I personally feel like the CW's that use the 2x 2-piece set are only trying to get the highest GS possible and/or trying to only benefit themselves, not being a team player.
Yeah, pretty much this. I've seen CWs pushing 17.5k or so GS, but I can tell you a CW running HV is more useful and those that use companions to boost their gear score are bad... A properly geared CW in 10s and with proper companions will be ~16.2-16.5
1. 2+2 and stat boosting pets are terrible. People who use them simply have no idea how the game works.
2. HV is the best set in the game, for any class, followed by HP (DC), which gives the same debuff on mobs, but has a shorter duration and is harder to stack on everything, though it's easier to stack and keep up on bosses most of the time.