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The stupidity of "LFG" and ways around it
zankard
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Hello everyone. I've been playing this game for months and also been following these forums, although this is the first time I'm posting. So here goes:
What's up with the /LFG chat channel? Can't anyone else see this is really not working and awkward? It almost feels like ex-WoW players are dictating the worst parts of their older game into Neverwinter. Don't get me wrong, good ideas from other games *should* be implemented if they fit, but not the bad ones.
Example 1: Bob wants to run some Dungeon while DD event is up so he can get his t2 greaves, finally. He opens up his general chat only to be overwhelmed by the huge spam of messages in /lfg channel. Be my guest and try to catch up with them.. Only real way to get into a group is to actually scroll through the chat manually but chances are it's already an old post.
Example 2: Bob is tired of looking for a group, so he decides he'll make his own. He might be sort of elitist and want to get done quickly, so he specifies which classes he needs and what GS they should have. He then has to spam in the /lfg himself, risking inviting people that lied about their gear score or experience or even their class.
Now, let me give you some insight about another game that does it *right*, which is DDO (Game names can be removed if its a foul to post them, some moderator let me know if thats the case). So how it worked? Nuclear science you say? I say kindergarten stuff: On that game, the "/LFG" was simply an interface, not an idioticly spammed chat channel. If, say, I wanted to create a group and invite members, my group would show up on that "LFG UI" with propper filters (class/gs/etc/younameit) and information (which dungeon/pvp/younameit it is for) adjusted by me, and people could just double click it and 'request to join'. I would then know it's only by people I would need, based on the filters I've applied.
Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? I understand there had to be a way for making groups.. the chat isn't one.
Chat has several functions and it should help people communicate. What it is now it's like a constant spam of /lfg and while you can ignore it / disable it you still need it when you're looking for a group.
Sorry if this got long, but I really felt like sharing this with the community and hear opinions. thanx
What's up with the /LFG chat channel? Can't anyone else see this is really not working and awkward? It almost feels like ex-WoW players are dictating the worst parts of their older game into Neverwinter. Don't get me wrong, good ideas from other games *should* be implemented if they fit, but not the bad ones.
Example 1: Bob wants to run some Dungeon while DD event is up so he can get his t2 greaves, finally. He opens up his general chat only to be overwhelmed by the huge spam of messages in /lfg channel. Be my guest and try to catch up with them.. Only real way to get into a group is to actually scroll through the chat manually but chances are it's already an old post.
Example 2: Bob is tired of looking for a group, so he decides he'll make his own. He might be sort of elitist and want to get done quickly, so he specifies which classes he needs and what GS they should have. He then has to spam in the /lfg himself, risking inviting people that lied about their gear score or experience or even their class.
Now, let me give you some insight about another game that does it *right*, which is DDO (Game names can be removed if its a foul to post them, some moderator let me know if thats the case). So how it worked? Nuclear science you say? I say kindergarten stuff: On that game, the "/LFG" was simply an interface, not an idioticly spammed chat channel. If, say, I wanted to create a group and invite members, my group would show up on that "LFG UI" with propper filters (class/gs/etc/younameit) and information (which dungeon/pvp/younameit it is for) adjusted by me, and people could just double click it and 'request to join'. I would then know it's only by people I would need, based on the filters I've applied.
Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? I understand there had to be a way for making groups.. the chat isn't one.
Chat has several functions and it should help people communicate. What it is now it's like a constant spam of /lfg and while you can ignore it / disable it you still need it when you're looking for a group.
Sorry if this got long, but I really felt like sharing this with the community and hear opinions. thanx
Post edited by zankard on
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Comments
- You rarely have to bear with uselss players, at worst you will have mediocre ones like myself.
- You won't have to spend 10 minutes at the entrance of a boss trying to convince the group to stop trying to use some obscure, almost imposssible to exploit glitch, and just do the normal (and easy) way.
- Your mates in the group will be able to actually communicate, and devise a, gasp, an strategy rather than running like headless chickens.
So yeah, I think that is the best way around it. Oh, and BTW, having played DDO, I completely agree with your point, though DDO did a quatrillion things worse than NWO.
Nope, I don't want a replacement for the current queue system. That should stay as is, but it doesn't replace the need to manually created groups whatsoever. Also, there is no volume taken off of the general chat. Pre-module 1 you had zone chat filled with lfg and trade spam? Awesome, now you have the same exact spam but everything now has different colors and channels.
As far as what you suggest, such as system would make the current queue system completely redundant. I think what would work would be to combine the two. Have one system that allows people to find certain classes, GS etc... including an option to join up with anyone for those who have trouble meeting more stringent requirements. Additionally, it would allow people to check or uncheck the option to be added to ongoing instances.
I think you are contradicting yourself because..
THIS^
One doesn't have to exist without the other. Being able to just queue for something is great and should exist in all of today's MMOs if you ask me. Still, I get your point about enabling/disabling chat channels. So I figure, only reason for /lfg is to unclutter your chat window? That's all good, but the main problem remains unsolved.
Exactly what OP is describing in "LFG UI"
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
The number of users currently online and what they want to do.
So do not wait for a smart UI which actually tells you something. It ain't gonna happen.
Not true. There's been a new flow of under average players lately, with extremely low gear scores and unable to complete some dungeons. There are "useless" players, more and more every day.
It's also a channel designed primarily for people who don't want to use any weird stuff like suiciding mobs, skipping fights, etc. In no way it is a "group finder with better players".
Apparently we do know about it and it has zero functionality. Almost 90% of the people on there aren't 'looking for group' anyway, they just have it turned to green because otherwise none can invite you in their groups. It basically serves no other purpose and has zero options to make it usable, and that's why none uses it.
@nameexpired
You are kidding me right? Why would they even need to display the number of users online? It should only have group requests by people that started them until they get full or dismissed. If you are somehow comparing to DDO which had such a list, it was badly made and so cumbersome that you'd actually have to count thousands of players one by one. It's actually easier to do so in NWO just with looking the people in the several instances.
@pitshade
Because the UI idea isn't completely automatic. And let's face it, if you want to be picky about your group you have to go the manual route. A UI doing that like I said could fix this. Adding parameters for the existing queue in the game would also be a good idea on the right direction.
I just think of the intransparency of the queue now.
If you are not a DC and you queue, you do not know how many minutes or hours you have to wait. You do not know where you are in the queue.
Are there are 2234 CW's that are put into a group before you, or if you are very close to get selected for a PuG?
This would be interesting to a player, but would also lead players to log off as they do not have a chance to get into a PuG within a reasonable time. And people that are not online usually do not generate income.
And I do not know about DDO.
Fair enough, but it looks liek you don't get my point. I wasn't even talking about changing the existing queue system, that was another idea from another guy here. What I'm saying is, that on top of the current queing we could have a system that's *not* a queue whatsoever. My idea is supposed to replace the chaos in the /LFG, not replace the queing system as it is now.
There are so many spams in /LFG because their needs are not fullfilled. IMHO mostly it's "DC wanted" and "need a 7th CW for MC 1/3".
I think it is not in PWE's interest to show you this information static, but rather in a fleeting way (=small scrolling chat window) so you do not think too much about the problems of the game, i.e. no GF's wanted except for probably FH. And even there DCs and GWFs can kite.
I like your idea around lfg, but the current queue system does need to be replaced. There are no options for a 3/4 man group. There are no options to request an old/new instance. If you join a group and get instantly kicked out you go to the back of the line. There are no options to specify what classes should fill which slots (i.e. there is always a DC and GF slot if it's not a premade group). There are also issues with the kick system, but that is a topic for another day.
Also there are issues with some of the gear score requirements for some dungeons. As an example, I have yet to see a group with sub 10k gear scores (without weapon/armor enchants) successfully kill the first boss in Karrundex. Likewise, I have yet to see a sub 10k group without a CW complete ToS.
T
What's funny is that there is still a ton of spam in Zone (especially in PE Zone chat) for people looking for groups and trades. I'll admit LFG and Trade cut down on it some, but certainly not as much as people hoped for I'm sure.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
LFG_karru
LFG_SP
LFG_CC
LFG_ToS
Was going with that for sig, but changed my mind. Or did I?
I don't think you got my point. I'm not against grouping with random people, I just want a better way of doing that. I have several people in my friendlist that I met like that. And I don't compare it to WoW, WoW has never had such a thing, I'm using it as a bad example, not a good one.
@ashnvf
I hear you, but on a side note, queing for a dungeon with a full group is just taking a shortcut right? I mean a group with less than 5 could still walk up to the dungeon entrance and run it, right? Not sure about that
There are no entrances for Epic dungeons to walk up to.
Thanks, I wasn't sure about that part. Well, either way the current system still needs love and bug fixing anyway. My OP was more about making/joining a group without having to spam on a bloated chat channel. There should be a more elegant way to do this
I don't think there is a more "elegant" or "efficient" way to do this. If there was Id think one of the 5000 MMOs released since Ultima Online would of thought of one.
The DDO example could be accomplished like GW2 has with an external LFG website but I think those are not run by Arenanet. One of you driven code knowledgable players would have to set it up. And the one for the GW2 is pretty much just the lfg/lfp channel but with restrictions (like lf 2cws+1dc etc etc) in html. Suppose itd be easier on the eyes.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
I think the key idea will be such a huge improvement. Saw in another thread someone posted an idea that DD could be removed (sort of), instead of the chest being unlocked during DD, this hour is when you can talk to an NPC and get a daily key or two to access the chest inside any dungeon, at any time. This would help bolster numbers for dungeons, as everyone would be getting their keys at the same time, and likely running them as soon as they get them. But it would also allow those that wanted to, to run a dungeon at a later time and still access the chest. This is a brilliant idea, and if it doesn't get implemented sometime soon....I will honestly start looking for another mmo where pve content isn't limited to a few hours a day.
DO IT!
You two are making me laugh, its like watching to ppl argue over whether or not a glass is half empty or half full. Honestly pitshade is right. Zankard, I like your idea, it is a good one but it should be integrated into the current queue system. If im reading pitshades posts correctly you should think of it like the auction house search window. You can go there and randomly search for stuff or use the advance search to narrow down your search.
So basically, one could just queue up for a dungeon and take whatever the queue system throws at them like it is now or they can use the advance queue to look for more specific options and narrow down the search.