Actually i'm rec some of my Domination session and when i found how, i'll make a little compilation . It's my first day of rec so don't be too rude with this test
I use Scoundrel specialisation .
I did not see my build somewhere else and it work pretty fine except against very tanky toons .
The Idea is to harass as much as possible in stealth, Silence with ShadowStrike and Kill them with critical Lashing Blade when it's possible .
The Big pros of this build is you can continue to make damage at range with absolutely no trouble and stay pretty Safe with Stealth Mode (imo closer you are, better is the chance to be catched )
The Big Cons : Tanky champ can endure your dot and harass with absolutely no trouble, but at least you can make it safly at ranged and debuff their damage (Specially against GWF, they strike so hard )
Other Big cons can be : It's not a duellist spec, as always we have almost no CC and we don't have ITC, but work pretty fine if you play it as a true rogue/ninja, who come from Behind or against ennemies who is in trouble .
It's Definitly a ***** spec
Actually i'm rec some of my Domination session and when i found how, i'll make a little compilation . It's my first day of rec so don't be too rude with this test
I use Scoundrel specialisation .
I did not see my build somewhere else and it work pretty fine except against very tanky toons .
The Idea is to harass as much as possible in stealth, Silence with ShadowStrike and Kill them with critical Lashing Blade when it's possible .
The Big pros of this build is you can continue to make damage at range with absolutely no trouble and stay pretty Safe with Stealth Mode (imo closer you are, better is the chance to be catched )
The Big Cons : Tanky champ can endure your dot and harass with absolutely no trouble, but at least you can make it safly at ranged and debuff their damage (Specially against GWF, they strike so hard )
Other Big cons can be : It's not a duellist spec, as always we have almost no CC and we don't have ITC, but work pretty fine if you play it as a true rogue/ninja, who come from Behind or against ennemies who is in trouble .
It's Definitly a ***** spec
Welcome to the society of Whisperknives for PvP! I also use a WK/Scoundrel, and the more I play it, the more I think WK is inherently more synergetic with Scoundrel, rather than Executioner.
Unfortunately, your vid is tagged as private -- we cannot view it! :O
I am very interested in how other WKs play out in PvP. Could you please look into it?
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Here are the latest developments to my WK build. Some of the more recent vids.
The recent incarnations use VP-DazingStrike combo more extensively, which has led to very good results in terms of killing power, as well as the general stability of the build in not allowing enemy retaliation.
The problem is, I've realized that with high WIS stats, some CWs have the already-short VP-stun duration cut down even shorter, which allows them an escape from the DaS follwing the VP-stun. Hence, against CWs it is at times, a better idea to:
* stealth - VP(mark) - approach from rear - DaS(instant activation from stealth) - follow-up attacks - target dodges/tps away after Daze is over - VP(TP) for extra attack - Shadow Strike - escpae.
Method shown at 00:50 at the vid. Unfortunately I failed to mind my surroundings, and didn't really expect a coordinated retaliation.
2. Alternate Methods of hitting the Dazing Strike combo (2): http://youtu.be/t-LuHmP7zd8
This is my motto for WKs:
"For MIs, it is how long you stay in stealth that matters. For WKs, it is how you exit from it."
It doesn't matter if you just use DaS from stealth and end it -- so long as you know you can handle what comes next.
3. The VP-HK-DaS combo: http://youtu.be/Ro37H_Fzpyo
One of my most proud creations. As long as it hits, it is almost as much an "I WIN" combo as the Shoxecution -- with none of its bullshi*ness.
4. General Combat: http://youtu.be/NA99gpHJTWE
The feel & rythm of the "In-and-Out" style of this build. Differs quite a lot from MI builds, as you need to commit, spike your damage, and then walk out. Mind the actual combat application of the "Rolling Slash" at 00:25.
A bit more lengthier combat sequence, displaying how the build is played out, since the above short clip doesn't really do this build justice. Notice within the time duration of less than 2 minutes, I gather enough AP two use Bloodbath for a second time. Action Rush at its finest.
The problem with this build, is that its precision/pin-point nature of VP-stuns, are often fubared by net latency.
There's also a mystery with this video. At 1:24 I take a damage from a mysterious source (4655). Have no idea what hit me so suddenly.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I changed for Public , sorry for the Private Link .
I'll try to show my way to play whisperKnife rogue, it's not a real guide but some way i explore .
1 - I use Cloud Of Steel + Dishearting Strike . (i have no melee attack)
Why i took this weird choice ?
Dishearting Strike : Dagger Threat 15% + Distracting Strike 5% (Sab)+(Underhanded Tactic (scoundrel)20% Combat advantage)
Cloud of Steel : Dagger Threat 15% + Mocking Knave 10% (Scoundrel) +(Underhanded Tactic (scoundrel)20% Combat Advantage)
Why the Hell should i choose a melee Attack, harder to land like duelist Flurry and put me in danger . (Closer you are, more risk you take), Specially in WhiperKife , you don't have impossible to catch .
Dishearting Strike with this type of Build give you almost the same damage than duelist Flurry and you also get the Bleed Effect and more than that you have a Debuff effect . You have the bread and the butter and you can use it very easily .
The Other reason is when Cloud of Steel is empty, i can continue to damage the target without all the trouble of Infiltrator can have as a melee .
I use this for this set Up for 2 Reason .
Firstly i'm almost always safe at range and in Stealth mode . (and Benefit of Combat advantage)
Secondly i have 2 little CC .
Shadow Strike have a really good synergie with Underhanded tactic and Stealth and it's very usefull as defense and offensive way .
I harass my target (squishy if i can choose) in stealth Mode, Dazes him with Shadow Strike and i have Lashing Blade ready in stealth Mode on a Silenced Target .
Impact Shot can also be used for CC of for damages if your target survived of Lashing Blade , you can lunch some real Tomahawk
Specially with the Master Scoundrel (15% Power damage after stealth Mode on encounter)
3- Daylies
Lurker's Assault : 15% Bonus damages, even if you are not in executionner feat, with this you can almost OS on Lashing Blade or Make Heavy damages with Impact Shot . (I mean Really heavy)
Whirlwind of Blade : High Damages, big range, almost instant , what else ?
Courage breaker can be a good alternative in a 1v1 way to play against some rude opponent like GWF .
4- Passive : Tenacious Consealment + Dagger Threat .
Nothing Special here .
And i use billthorn, and not Vorpal, this build is not based on Burst but semi constant Damage output, that also mean, alot of billthorn proc .
i hesistate to change for the terror , but i not made my choice yet .
I changed for Public , sorry for the Private Link .
I'll try to show my way to play whisperKnife rogue, it's not a real guide but some way i explore .
1 - I use Cloud Of Steel + Dishearting Strike . (i have no melee attack)
Why i took this weird choice ?
Dishearting Strike : Dagger Threat 15% + Distracting Strike 5% (Sab)+(Underhanded Tactic (scoundrel)20% Combat advantage)
Cloud of Steel : Dagger Threat 15% + Mocking Knave 10% (Scoundrel) +(Underhanded Tactic (scoundrel)20% Combat Advantage)
Why the Hell should i choose a melee Attack, harder to land like duelist Flurry and put me in danger . (Closer you are, more risk you take), Specially in WhiperKife , you don't have impossible to catch .
No doubt.
I've actually tried using the same ranged-oriented powerchoices as well -- and it does do wonders especially with Dagger Threat. Most TRs would have the 'standard' choice of traits with Sneak Attack and Tenacious Concealment, but if the team's actually good enough to be on the offensive more than defensive, then Dagger Threat is just awesome.
The "melee" aspect of my build, is frankly a personal preference. People say its difficult to stick. They also say you can't do real melee without ITC. So, heck, I just like doing what they say can't be done.
Dishearting Strike with this type of Build give you almost the same damage than duelist Flurry and you also get the Bleed Effect and more than that you have a Debuff effect . You have the bread and the butter and you can use it very easily .
The Other reason is when Cloud of Steel is empty, i can continue to damage the target without all the trouble of Infiltrator can have as a melee .
Totally agree. In many cases, perhaps DiS is probably the most overlooked power of WK builds. Its activation is slow, yes, but its totally worth it. Around 10k (sometimes more, sometimes less) damage against squishy classes from a single application of an at-will power... definately not something to be trifled with.
I use this for this set Up for 2 Reason .
Firstly i'm almost always safe at range and in Stealth mode . (and Benefit of Combat advantage)
Secondly i have 2 little CC .
Shadow Strike have a really good synergie with Underhanded tactic and Stealth and it's very usefull as defense and offensive way .
I harass my target (squishy if i can choose) in stealth Mode, Dazes him with Shadow Strike and i have Lashing Blade ready in stealth Mode on a Silenced Target .
Impact Shot can also be used for CC of for damages if your target survived of Lashing Blade , you can lunch some real Tomahawk
Specially with the Master Scoundrel (15% Power damage after stealth Mode on encounter)
Seems like reasonable choices. In my case, I just can't shake the use of Vengeance's Pursuit. It's the showcase power for the Paragon Path, and I just gotta use it.. its a personal thing.
3- Daylies
Lurker's Assault : 15% Bonus damages, even if you are not in executionner feat, with this you can almost OS on Lashing Blade or Make Heavy damages with Impact Shot . (I mean Really heavy)
Whirlwind of Blade : High Damages, big range, almost instant , what else ?
Courage breaker can be a good alternative in a 1v1 way to play against some rude opponent like GWF .
4- Passive : Tenacious Consealment + Dagger Threat .
Nothing Special here .
And i use billthorn, and not Vorpal, this build is not based on Burst but semi constant Damage output, that also mean, alot of billthorn proc .
i hesistate to change for the terror , but i not made my choice yet .
In my case I've specifically built to utilize the defense debuff, so Terror or Plaguefire works out much better in most cases (except squaring off against other rogues (the good ones), in which case need Bilethorn to kill stealth).
With my build, the constant application of -10% defense from Cat's Paw Style + effects from Plaguefire/Terror is pretty much optimal for the damage-spiking "In-and-Out" rythm which relies on hitting with Dazing Strike to spike as much melee damage as possible within the duration of the daze, and then safely escape.
IMO Terror enchantment won't probably add much to your current build. It would definately be more efficient if you stick with Bilethorn.
(ps) Vorpal... really doesn't work with WK/Scoundrel builds. I've tried it. Somehow, this enchantment just doesn't synergize very well, and feels dumb, "slow", awkward and actually seems to do less damage.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
In my case i hate Vengeance poursuit and prefer by far DeftStrike . I used it on my old skills set Up .
Deftstrike is Vengeance poursuite but faster and stronger but with lower range than Vengeance .
In my opinion vengeance poursuit need a rework, there is no Pros of using it, you just switch a Stun by a Slow and get everything else better with deftstrike .
And the Anti CC effect of VP is just too much situational to be the main aspect of this skills .
The Vorpal can't work on WK indeed .
It's just mathematic .
Crit on Low amount of Damage won't be the best choice . PlagueFire maybe can be more effectif , specially since i have a really hard time against Tanky GWF .
I could pass at 35% Armor Penetration with plaguefire stack x3 , but i don't know if it's worth .
Specially since you can alsmo make few DOT for breaking Rogue Stealth .
Use 1 Dishearting Strike before Spam Cloud of Steel can also apply an other Dot too , pretty usefull i think against other TR .
Question: why not a Sab or Exe Perma WK? Seems annoying for enemies. DoTs fired at range, while not being hitted. Basically, an MI with BaS for ITC and DiS + CoS as at-wills.
In my case i hate Vengeance poursuit and prefer by far DeftStrike . I used it on my old skills set Up .
Deftstrike is Vengeance poursuite but faster and stronger but with lower range than Vengeance .
In my opinion vengeance poursuit need a rework, there is no Pros of using it, you just switch a Stun by a Slow and get everything else better with deftstrike .
And the Anti CC effect of VP is just too much situational to be the main aspect of this skills .
I guess it's a matter of preference mostly , but I must say VP does have some clear merits that makes it worthwhile, when compared with Deft Srike.
(1) No cooldown: A gap-closer with no cooldown = Priceless. Especially to a melee or melee/ranged hybrid build like mine. It also means extremely fast AP point gain with Action Rush.
(2) Tactical Stun: Very short, but also very tactical stun from stealth which tends to be enormously useful - especially to Scoundrel builds. [Cunning Ambusher + Whirlwind Sneak Attack] applies to your one encounter power used right after stealth ends, and it's probably the highest damaging attack opportunity for a Scoundrel build. A stun, just prior to that moment, guarantees it hits. It was this aspect, that made it possible for me to come up with a combo that finishes with Dazing Strike -- an ideal power for a melee-TR, but tragically ignored for its difficulty of hitting.
(3) Tracks through stealth: As long as you get the first mark in -- whatever way you can -- then the VP(TP) portion of the attack will track the target through stealth. Fighting high-INT/fast ITC rotation TRs is always difficult to any class, but in the cases I've actually defeated them, it is because I was able to track them through stealth (when they usually have ITC in cooldown) and land the VP-DazingStrike combo.
(4) Slow: Needs the Tier2 feat from Executioner path, but the 40% slow does make a difference, both for chasing runners, and for hitting melee attacks. If only it lasted a second or two longer... I might actually be able to link DF to the combo..
Yeah, the CC-breaker portion of the power, is frankly meaningless. Doesn't work half the time, so I'd consider that part of VP just simply non-existant.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
May I ask if a perma stealth tr suitable for WK ? Was thinking of ds+ p.bile ? Would that be great?
There's no reason it would not suit WKs.
In terms of TR as a DPS, WK is actually more desirable than MIs since the currently "orthodox" TR attack methods revolve around stealthed-ranged attacks. The Paragon feat Dagger Threat alone adds 15% to all "thrown knives" type of damage, as well as it comes with Disheartening Strike, an at-will power that is 5 tick DoT, which default damage is around 6~8k for most people -- a very, very powerful attack, which also receives damage buffs from Dagger Threat.
The only reason people go MI is frankly because of Shoxecution and ITC, since adding in ITC to the rotation gives a significant boost in survivability, as well as both ITC+Shoxecution gives a glimmer of hope in taking down very tough GWFs as well.
Going against this "trend" -- for instance, my build/method -- requires something different altogether.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
ok even if i go perma build with WK ? so which rotation i should aim for ..SS,impact shot and ___ ?? and may i know why must with p.bile ? cant it go with p.terror ?
0
Options
crystal892fMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 385Arc User
(4) Slow: Needs the Tier2 feat from Executioner path, but the 40% slow does make a difference, both for chasing runners, and for hitting melee attacks. If only it lasted a second or two longer... I might actually be able to link DF to the combo..
Hey again, kweassa. Some questions to this point:
Do you have actual numbers on how short the slow lasts?
DF? You mean Duelist's Flurry? So something like:
StealthVP(TP) (stuns and slows)
Dazing Strike (dazes)
Duelist's Flurry (damage!)
Why can't you chain it like this already - even without the VP slow? I mean, the DaS daze alone should last long enough for the slow first two strikes of DF to pass and start the actual "flurry".
Yeah, the CC-breaker portion of the power, is frankly meaningless. Doesn't work half the time, so I'd consider that part of VP just simply non-existant.
Well, even the description of this power reads: "you may re-activate this to break free of control effects"; may =/= guaranteed.
Seriously though, I escaped some ranger roots CC with this. "control effects" doesn't specify which control effects. I think (not know), VP is, contrary to ITC, not activatable during completely disabling effects like freezes, Entangling Force, prones and such. So you should be able to teleport out of the non-completely-disabling ones (like ranger roots).
ok even if i go perma build with WK ? so which rotation i should aim for ..SS,impact shot and ___ ?? and may i know why must with p.bile ? cant it go with p.terror ?
Otto, you tend to spam posts. Instead of doing 1 line per a post, maybe try to expand 1 post with all 3 sentences?
That said, the best thing to do is find your own combination. If you're seeking perma-stealth, then SS and BnS are pretty much standard, with the 3rd encounter being 1 of choice. just like lurker is the daily to go to.
In the end, you need to simply play the path. Figure it out. WK is new and most players aren't using it yet.
hrmm..i already have made up my mind to go WK perma stealth ? im just wondering that disheartining strike (not sure the name) will work more better with p.bile or with p .terror? was thinking of at will -(left click) disheartening strike/duelist flurry and(right click) CoS for sure
d strike is a ranged dot. It works with a dot as it would cause the dot to go off as well. If you want the terror debuff, then it can also work with that.
It's whatever in terms of specific weapon enchants. bile = rogue killer in general, otherwise vorp for anyone else.
PF doesn't stack with other's PF. It's a standard enchant and if you have the money to get, better than terror. The main 3 enchants to look at is PF, Bile and Vorpal. Terror is the poor man's PF, basically.
It's whatever in terms of specific weapon enchants. bile = rogue killer in general, otherwise vorp for anyone else.
does this mean terror is not actually that good and bile is more suitable for a perma ? because i saw p.terror has a 20% defence reduction lolx ? OK have some question to ask before i buy a perfect enchantment..ok i love tiefling race for this perma stealth tr and since perma tr CANNOT do as high damage as MI with p.vorp tr would tiefling be a better choice ? and tiefling has the right bonus for the starting roll con/dex..and a 5% damage on below 50% is tremendous ...ok i will stat some example here ok...i dont really sure how much damager per 'tick' of this disheartening strike...I want to confirm this right here because dont wanna buy a wrong perfect enchantment and did not work exactly what i thought of ...hope someone experience with p.bile and p.terror user can clarify this....again this is just an EXAMPLE :
ok a whatever race doing a ds here with P.bile/P.terror and the tick start : 100 , 200 , 300 , 400 ,500 = total 1500 damage
and now a tiefling with same enchantment and hit the enemy when the enemy is 50%hp or less : 105, 210 , 315 , 420 , 525= total of 1575 damage ...is it work like that ?
Well, PF has 3 stacks, each one with 2.5% dmg every second for 3s and 15% def reduction, right? While Bile has 16% dmg after 4s. Isn't PF better even though less bursty?
I Switch Bill for PF actually .
Both in perfect rank of enchant and i prefer by far the PF .
I talk only for my kind of build but my biggest difficult on this game is tanky toons .
That's when PF make all sense, with Lashing Blade .
My damage is closer than Vorpal , debuff stack is really easy to land, and i continue to have DOT against TR .
For me : PF is the better enchant for no burst TR , like perma Stealth, Whisperknife, etc .
in other Hand if you Optimise as much as possible your lashing Blade, indeed, Billthorn and PF is not the best way to enchant your weapon .
Unfortunately otto, I don't have #s to answer you with. I'm at work, so I can't really just go and look either.
My recommendation is to load up the test server, transfer your TR over and in there, go test it out on a training dummy. The tiefling will do more damage, when they are under 50%, so it will add, yes. However, I don't have exact numbers to tell you how much or anything. I only half pay attention to numbers as my interest is in more TTK (Time To Kill) instead of what specific numbers I did.
No don't get me wrong shadow. I don't need u to count the exact dot damage for me lol..is just an example to ask if it really have increase dot damage while using dot damage..and just want to know that if I going into WK perma build is p.bile or p.terror more suitable only? Since mod 3 coming and I think a lot will take plague fire enchantment but I do not like it in PvP because when 1 or more teammate have it and mine will become useless because it do not stack . so I want something that is like 'this enchant is only for me' like that. Do u get it so for your experience which enchant will be more suitable
All effects on the dot only happen when that dot is initiated. So if you hit em with the dot, when they're under 50%, it'll do the increased damage, even if they get healed. Basically consider any dot you do a snapshot of whatever effects are on during that moment of activation, to stay active. So if your first attack out of stealth (which gets a 15% increase from certain feats) is a dot, then the entire length of that dot will have that increased damage. Pretty savage, no?
As for enchant? I'd go for bile. If you're gonna run DS, and flurry, then increase the number of dots burning down. Bile will also stack, so if others bile them, they get dots from all players. While it doesn't do the def decrease, it is an addative.
Like I've mentioned before in other threads, otto, PF is not bad, but it isn't too impressive by itself.
In my case, I am a WK/Scoundrel using [Cunning Ambusher] + [Endless Assault] + [Whirlwind Sneak Attack] + [Cat's Paw Style] + [Advantageous Position]. All my efforts culminate in one decisive blow that is the VP(Stun) - Dazing Strike combo, in which case I land a Dazing Strike that is applied every feat mentioned above, as well as the Dazing Strike adding in another -10% defense debuff.
Recently, I've even gave up on Bloodcrystal Raven Skull, and added in purple-tier Lantern Artifact (additional -14% defense debuff) to the equation. So ultimately, the amount of defense debuff I maintain against my target would be:
If I meet a good team, so I can give up a bit in survivability, then I add in another 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder to above, to maintain a -84% defense debuff. It does wonders against tanclerics and particularly tough GWFs.
But if you aren't planning to go this far, then I don't really think Bilethorn or PF would make that much of a difference, and it would simply come down to which agrees with you more. In most cases, Bilethorn has the extra added effect of being extremely useful against other TRs, so I'd say using Bilethorn would at least, never be considered a waste.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
It's an automatic critical from stealth
Leaving dead question marks everywhere
My little contribution of WhisperRogue .
Actually i'm rec some of my Domination session and when i found how, i'll make a little compilation . It's my first day of rec so don't be too rude with this test
I use Scoundrel specialisation .
I did not see my build somewhere else and it work pretty fine except against very tanky toons .
The Idea is to harass as much as possible in stealth, Silence with ShadowStrike and Kill them with critical Lashing Blade when it's possible .
The Big pros of this build is you can continue to make damage at range with absolutely no trouble and stay pretty Safe with Stealth Mode (imo closer you are, better is the chance to be catched )
The Big Cons : Tanky champ can endure your dot and harass with absolutely no trouble, but at least you can make it safly at ranged and debuff their damage (Specially against GWF, they strike so hard
Other Big cons can be : It's not a duellist spec, as always we have almost no CC and we don't have ITC, but work pretty fine if you play it as a true rogue/ninja, who come from Behind or against ennemies who is in trouble .
It's Definitly a ***** spec
Welcome to the society of Whisperknives for PvP!
Unfortunately, your vid is tagged as private -- we cannot view it! :O
I am very interested in how other WKs play out in PvP.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
The recent incarnations use VP-DazingStrike combo more extensively, which has led to very good results in terms of killing power, as well as the general stability of the build in not allowing enemy retaliation.
1. Alternate Methods of hitting the Dazing Strike Combo: http://youtu.be/C-LslZzWtNI
The basic form of the combo is:
* stealth - VP(mark) - VP(TP = stun) - Dazing Strike (hereafter 'DaS') - follow-up attacks or escape
The problem is, I've realized that with high WIS stats, some CWs have the already-short VP-stun duration cut down even shorter, which allows them an escape from the DaS follwing the VP-stun. Hence, against CWs it is at times, a better idea to:
* stealth - VP(mark) - approach from rear - DaS(instant activation from stealth) - follow-up attacks - target dodges/tps away after Daze is over - VP(TP) for extra attack - Shadow Strike - escpae.
Method shown at 00:50 at the vid. Unfortunately I failed to mind my surroundings, and didn't really expect a coordinated retaliation.
2. Alternate Methods of hitting the Dazing Strike combo (2): http://youtu.be/t-LuHmP7zd8
This is my motto for WKs:
"For MIs, it is how long you stay in stealth that matters. For WKs, it is how you exit from it."
It doesn't matter if you just use DaS from stealth and end it -- so long as you know you can handle what comes next.
3. The VP-HK-DaS combo: http://youtu.be/Ro37H_Fzpyo
One of my most proud creations. As long as it hits, it is almost as much an "I WIN" combo as the Shoxecution -- with none of its bullshi*ness.
4. General Combat: http://youtu.be/NA99gpHJTWE
The feel & rythm of the "In-and-Out" style of this build. Differs quite a lot from MI builds, as you need to commit, spike your damage, and then walk out. Mind the actual combat application of the "Rolling Slash" at 00:25.
5. General Combat(2): http://youtu.be/R60PfGOymL4
A bit more lengthier combat sequence, displaying how the build is played out, since the above short clip doesn't really do this build justice. Notice within the time duration of less than 2 minutes, I gather enough AP two use Bloodbath for a second time. Action Rush at its finest.
The problem with this build, is that its precision/pin-point nature of VP-stuns, are often fubared by net latency.
There's also a mystery with this video. At 1:24 I take a damage from a mysterious source (4655). Have no idea what hit me so suddenly.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I'll try to show my way to play whisperKnife rogue, it's not a real guide but some way i explore .
1 - I use Cloud Of Steel + Dishearting Strike . (i have no melee attack)
Why i took this weird choice ?
Dishearting Strike : Dagger Threat 15% + Distracting Strike 5% (Sab)+(Underhanded Tactic (scoundrel)20% Combat advantage)
Cloud of Steel : Dagger Threat 15% + Mocking Knave 10% (Scoundrel) +(Underhanded Tactic (scoundrel)20% Combat Advantage)
Why the Hell should i choose a melee Attack, harder to land like duelist Flurry and put me in danger . (Closer you are, more risk you take), Specially in WhiperKife , you don't have impossible to catch .
Dishearting Strike with this type of Build give you almost the same damage than duelist Flurry and you also get the Bleed Effect and more than that you have a Debuff effect . You have the bread and the butter and you can use it very easily .
The Other reason is when Cloud of Steel is empty, i can continue to damage the target without all the trouble of Infiltrator can have as a melee .
2- My Encounter Skills .
Shadow Strike ; Impact Shot ; Lashing Blade.
I use this for this set Up for 2 Reason .
Firstly i'm almost always safe at range and in Stealth mode . (and Benefit of Combat advantage)
Secondly i have 2 little CC .
Shadow Strike have a really good synergie with Underhanded tactic and Stealth and it's very usefull as defense and offensive way .
I harass my target (squishy if i can choose) in stealth Mode, Dazes him with Shadow Strike and i have Lashing Blade ready in stealth Mode on a Silenced Target .
Impact Shot can also be used for CC of for damages if your target survived of Lashing Blade , you can lunch some real Tomahawk
Specially with the Master Scoundrel (15% Power damage after stealth Mode on encounter)
3- Daylies
Lurker's Assault : 15% Bonus damages, even if you are not in executionner feat, with this you can almost OS on Lashing Blade or Make Heavy damages with Impact Shot . (I mean Really heavy)
Whirlwind of Blade : High Damages, big range, almost instant , what else ?
Courage breaker can be a good alternative in a 1v1 way to play against some rude opponent like GWF .
4- Passive : Tenacious Consealment + Dagger Threat .
Nothing Special here .
And i use billthorn, and not Vorpal, this build is not based on Burst but semi constant Damage output, that also mean, alot of billthorn proc .
i hesistate to change for the terror , but i not made my choice yet .
yup! my bad, crappy wording
Butters TR PVP
No doubt.
I've actually tried using the same ranged-oriented powerchoices as well -- and it does do wonders especially with Dagger Threat. Most TRs would have the 'standard' choice of traits with Sneak Attack and Tenacious Concealment, but if the team's actually good enough to be on the offensive more than defensive, then Dagger Threat is just awesome.
The "melee" aspect of my build, is frankly a personal preference. People say its difficult to stick. They also say you can't do real melee without ITC. So, heck, I just like doing what they say can't be done.
Totally agree. In many cases, perhaps DiS is probably the most overlooked power of WK builds. Its activation is slow, yes, but its totally worth it. Around 10k (sometimes more, sometimes less) damage against squishy classes from a single application of an at-will power... definately not something to be trifled with.
Seems like reasonable choices.
In my case I've specifically built to utilize the defense debuff, so Terror or Plaguefire works out much better in most cases (except squaring off against other rogues (the good ones), in which case need Bilethorn to kill stealth).
With my build, the constant application of -10% defense from Cat's Paw Style + effects from Plaguefire/Terror is pretty much optimal for the damage-spiking "In-and-Out" rythm which relies on hitting with Dazing Strike to spike as much melee damage as possible within the duration of the daze, and then safely escape.
IMO Terror enchantment won't probably add much to your current build. It would definately be more efficient if you stick with Bilethorn.
(ps) Vorpal... really doesn't work with WK/Scoundrel builds. I've tried it. Somehow, this enchantment just doesn't synergize very well, and feels dumb, "slow", awkward and actually seems to do less damage.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Deftstrike is Vengeance poursuite but faster and stronger but with lower range than Vengeance .
In my opinion vengeance poursuit need a rework, there is no Pros of using it, you just switch a Stun by a Slow and get everything else better with deftstrike .
And the Anti CC effect of VP is just too much situational to be the main aspect of this skills .
The Vorpal can't work on WK indeed .
It's just mathematic .
Crit on Low amount of Damage won't be the best choice . PlagueFire maybe can be more effectif , specially since i have a really hard time against Tanky GWF .
I could pass at 35% Armor Penetration with plaguefire stack x3 , but i don't know if it's worth .
Specially since you can alsmo make few DOT for breaking Rogue Stealth .
Use 1 Dishearting Strike before Spam Cloud of Steel can also apply an other Dot too , pretty usefull i think against other TR .
I guess it's a matter of preference mostly
(1) No cooldown: A gap-closer with no cooldown = Priceless.
(2) Tactical Stun: Very short, but also very tactical stun from stealth which tends to be enormously useful - especially to Scoundrel builds. [Cunning Ambusher + Whirlwind Sneak Attack] applies to your one encounter power used right after stealth ends, and it's probably the highest damaging attack opportunity for a Scoundrel build. A stun, just prior to that moment, guarantees it hits. It was this aspect, that made it possible for me to come up with a combo that finishes with Dazing Strike -- an ideal power for a melee-TR, but tragically ignored for its difficulty of hitting.
(3) Tracks through stealth: As long as you get the first mark in -- whatever way you can -- then the VP(TP) portion of the attack will track the target through stealth. Fighting high-INT/fast ITC rotation TRs is always difficult to any class, but in the cases I've actually defeated them, it is because I was able to track them through stealth (when they usually have ITC in cooldown) and land the VP-DazingStrike combo.
(4) Slow: Needs the Tier2 feat from Executioner path, but the 40% slow does make a difference, both for chasing runners, and for hitting melee attacks. If only it lasted a second or two longer... I might actually be able to link DF to the combo..
Yeah, the CC-breaker portion of the power, is frankly meaningless. Doesn't work half the time, so I'd consider that part of VP just simply non-existant.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
There's no reason it would not suit WKs.
In terms of TR as a DPS, WK is actually more desirable than MIs since the currently "orthodox" TR attack methods revolve around stealthed-ranged attacks. The Paragon feat Dagger Threat alone adds 15% to all "thrown knives" type of damage, as well as it comes with Disheartening Strike, an at-will power that is 5 tick DoT, which default damage is around 6~8k for most people -- a very, very powerful attack, which also receives damage buffs from Dagger Threat.
The only reason people go MI is frankly because of Shoxecution and ITC, since adding in ITC to the rotation gives a significant boost in survivability, as well as both ITC+Shoxecution gives a glimmer of hope in taking down very tough GWFs as well.
Going against this "trend" -- for instance, my build/method -- requires something different altogether.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Do you have actual numbers on how short the slow lasts?
DF? You mean Duelist's Flurry? So something like:
StealthVP(TP) (stuns and slows)
Dazing Strike (dazes)
Duelist's Flurry (damage!)
Why can't you chain it like this already - even without the VP slow? I mean, the DaS daze alone should last long enough for the slow first two strikes of DF to pass and start the actual "flurry".
Well, even the description of this power reads: "you may re-activate this to break free of control effects"; may =/= guaranteed.
Seriously though, I escaped some ranger roots CC with this. "control effects" doesn't specify which control effects. I think (not know), VP is, contrary to ITC, not activatable during completely disabling effects like freezes, Entangling Force, prones and such. So you should be able to teleport out of the non-completely-disabling ones (like ranger roots).
no one willing to reply this ?
Otto, you tend to spam posts. Instead of doing 1 line per a post, maybe try to expand 1 post with all 3 sentences?
That said, the best thing to do is find your own combination. If you're seeking perma-stealth, then SS and BnS are pretty much standard, with the 3rd encounter being 1 of choice. just like lurker is the daily to go to.
In the end, you need to simply play the path. Figure it out. WK is new and most players aren't using it yet.
It's whatever in terms of specific weapon enchants. bile = rogue killer in general, otherwise vorp for anyone else.
does this mean terror is not actually that good and bile is more suitable for a perma ? because i saw p.terror has a 20% defence reduction lolx ? OK have some question to ask before i buy a perfect enchantment..ok i love tiefling race for this perma stealth tr and since perma tr CANNOT do as high damage as MI with p.vorp tr would tiefling be a better choice ? and tiefling has the right bonus for the starting roll con/dex..and a 5% damage on below 50% is tremendous ...ok i will stat some example here ok...i dont really sure how much damager per 'tick' of this disheartening strike...I want to confirm this right here because dont wanna buy a wrong perfect enchantment and did not work exactly what i thought of ...hope someone experience with p.bile and p.terror user can clarify this....again this is just an EXAMPLE :
ok a whatever race doing a ds here with P.bile/P.terror and the tick start : 100 , 200 , 300 , 400 ,500 = total 1500 damage
and now a tiefling with same enchantment and hit the enemy when the enemy is 50%hp or less : 105, 210 , 315 , 420 , 525= total of 1575 damage ...is it work like that ?
Both in perfect rank of enchant and i prefer by far the PF .
I talk only for my kind of build but my biggest difficult on this game is tanky toons .
That's when PF make all sense, with Lashing Blade .
My damage is closer than Vorpal , debuff stack is really easy to land, and i continue to have DOT against TR .
For me : PF is the better enchant for no burst TR , like perma Stealth, Whisperknife, etc .
in other Hand if you Optimise as much as possible your lashing Blade, indeed, Billthorn and PF is not the best way to enchant your weapon .
My recommendation is to load up the test server, transfer your TR over and in there, go test it out on a training dummy. The tiefling will do more damage, when they are under 50%, so it will add, yes. However, I don't have exact numbers to tell you how much or anything. I only half pay attention to numbers as my interest is in more TTK (Time To Kill) instead of what specific numbers I did.
As for enchant? I'd go for bile. If you're gonna run DS, and flurry, then increase the number of dots burning down. Bile will also stack, so if others bile them, they get dots from all players. While it doesn't do the def decrease, it is an addative.
In my case, I am a WK/Scoundrel using [Cunning Ambusher] + [Endless Assault] + [Whirlwind Sneak Attack] + [Cat's Paw Style] + [Advantageous Position]. All my efforts culminate in one decisive blow that is the VP(Stun) - Dazing Strike combo, in which case I land a Dazing Strike that is applied every feat mentioned above, as well as the Dazing Strike adding in another -10% defense debuff.
Recently, I've even gave up on Bloodcrystal Raven Skull, and added in purple-tier Lantern Artifact (additional -14% defense debuff) to the equation. So ultimately, the amount of defense debuff I maintain against my target would be:
* PF 3 stacks = -45%
* Cat's Paw Style = -10%
* Lantern = -14%
-64% defense debuff.
If I meet a good team, so I can give up a bit in survivability, then I add in another 5 stacks of Wicked Reminder to above, to maintain a -84% defense debuff. It does wonders against tanclerics and particularly tough GWFs.
But if you aren't planning to go this far, then I don't really think Bilethorn or PF would make that much of a difference, and it would simply come down to which agrees with you more. In most cases, Bilethorn has the extra added effect of being extremely useful against other TRs, so I'd say using Bilethorn would at least, never be considered a waste.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'