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What 4e version is Neverwinter based on?
harkin
Member Posts: 135 Arc User
So i recently got into 4e edition pnp with Neverwinter launched last year and stuff.. been going through the red box and recently grabbed Heroes of the Fallen Lands.
Went through the creation for the different classes, and i noticed that the Wizard was lacking in the spell choices.
Things like Cloud of Daggers wasnt in the list at all. Then when you search for it on the interwebz you find guides that gives you things like Cloud of Daggers and Thunderwave. Which version is the latest? It got me thinking.. what version of the 4e version is Neverwinter (the game) actually based on? Seems like the Wizard class in the PHB gets other spell choiced to pick from then in the essential book. Also the regular PHB seems to mention the orb, staff and wand implement bonuses, which the essential tells you nothing about other then these are the 3 implements you have proficiency in.
Sorry for the long post, but as someone that's learning more about how to build a character, it's really annoying to have 3-4 books covering the same thing, but none of them have the same content. Makes it hard to know what goes and what's changed or replaced. Heck we even found out that the backstab ability in the red box does'nt work the same as the one in the essential book.
Went through the creation for the different classes, and i noticed that the Wizard was lacking in the spell choices.
Things like Cloud of Daggers wasnt in the list at all. Then when you search for it on the interwebz you find guides that gives you things like Cloud of Daggers and Thunderwave. Which version is the latest? It got me thinking.. what version of the 4e version is Neverwinter (the game) actually based on? Seems like the Wizard class in the PHB gets other spell choiced to pick from then in the essential book. Also the regular PHB seems to mention the orb, staff and wand implement bonuses, which the essential tells you nothing about other then these are the 3 implements you have proficiency in.
Sorry for the long post, but as someone that's learning more about how to build a character, it's really annoying to have 3-4 books covering the same thing, but none of them have the same content. Makes it hard to know what goes and what's changed or replaced. Heck we even found out that the backstab ability in the red box does'nt work the same as the one in the essential book.
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The only similarities are the names and some of the lore. Beyond that you'll find it deviating wildly.
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In regards to most of the changes it comes down to a very simple concept: balance.
Dungeons and Dragons is not a balanced game.The only thing that can make it balanced in PnP is a DM that either puts their foot down and implements house rules or caters the challenges to their specific group. Balancing a video game to encompass players who both make flawed characters for roleplaying and min-max without a live DM for each group is virtually impossible.
Even with the limited choices presented in Neverwinter there's huge issues balancing the game between the Min-Max Elite Players and the more casual players. And more free reign will just widen that gap more.
Wizards in PnP still can choose about any spell they want and make a character that is exactly what they want. As a Persistent World Developer for Neverwinter Nights I can tell you that was a nightmare to deal with. There were players who could and did make their wizards unstoppable and there were players who made a character that were just....well...they needed a few other players.
So with an MMO balancing is the most important thing to do. The choices are limited to a theme.
In time as more classes are released we'll have a slew of options and players will look more and more diverse but for the sake of balancing it is unlikely free reign will ever be implemented.
Meanwhile out in the Denver Bronco's endzone....
Just a rhetorical question. Why should the developers care if my RP character balances well against a min/max character. If I create a RP character I know I will not be able to compete against a min/max character in PvP. In PvE does that balance really matter? So what if he/she can clear a dungeon in 15 minutes, as an RP character I am probably not looking for that. Not to mention the rewards for finishing a dungeon are same anyway. If we don't want the "perceived" weakness of my RP character impacting the min/maxers PvP experience, why should his/her desire to be blandly equal to everybody else impact my PvE experience? Let me build my character as I want and then face the consequences of my choices. I don't need my hand to be held by the great DM of the keyboard. I have had PnP DMs let my characters fall flat on their faces do to poor choices, and as a DM myself, while questioning some builds ultimately it is the player's character. For instance if someone builds a wizard with nothing but utility and defensive spells he won't make it far on his own, but this an MMO. You are supposed to team up with other players anyway, right? Anyway just rhetorical musings on my part in response to Ambisinisterr.
*insert cackle here* Not that I cared who won, but man what a stomping...
It's not necessarily that the minmax/hardcore player will ruin your game or vice versa.
If the game is too easy for the hard core player, he'll complain that the game isn't challenging him. If you make the game too hard for the casual/roleplaying player, he'll complain that the game's too tough. Keep in mind I mean that as a generalization, not reflective of you or I. It's easier to balance such issues in a PnP game, the DM can his game on the fly as the party moves along to make it tougher or easier.
Having been a DM on a NWN persistant world as well, I can tell you that it was sometimes tough to play this balancing act, especially as the players began to hit the higher levels (the server has a soft cap at around 15, if I remember). Trying to run events that would challenge the high levels with their powerful spells yet not insta-kill the squishy newer players was not easy. And since it's a roleplay focused server, it wasn't uncommon for a low level to be partying with some high levels. I should know, my characters were mostly low to mid level with upper level friends. We've made a lot of changes to spells, skills, and such to address that balancing act.
(If it isn't obvious by my verb tense, said server is still running, though population is much lower these days.)
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There is no one book.
Think of them like Video Game Expansion Packs. The First Books whether it is the Player Handbook, The Monster Manual or any other book is the basic information. The second and beyond books generally don't even address what is stated in the previous books, rather it is an expansion of completely new information.
There are a few exceptions in which rules which were found to be too vague or needing a 'patch' to fix an issue are brought up in later books but for the most part if you buy the 'latest' book you will still need the first book.
This exactly.
With more choices to make stronger and weaker characters it becomes harder to balance the game. Not because of how the elites will effect you but because the game would either have to be created to cater to one or the other.
If the game is balanced for the casual players then the game will be too easy for the elites. This has two major dsrawbacks. One they will likely stop playing due to boredom and two if the game is too easy then items enter the game too readily and then the casuals will be bored as well since they could just buy all their gear for a pittance and not feel the need to play the game to earn it.
If the game is balanced for the Elites, well then your RP characters would be unable to play the game. It would simply be too hard.
Even with the limited options there are still balancing issues within the game. The one that is really obvious is Castle Never. Castle Never's final boss fight has repeatedly been called the easiest fight in the game by elit(ist) players. Why? They go in with 3 Control Wizards, a Rogue and a Cleric. It's soooo easy. -.-
Yet if you try to bring any other team composition the fight becomes extremely hard. If you only have one control wizard it is likely impossible to beat. And that's why the game has to be balanced.
The Red Box says, 3+ to attack roll, and the enemy must give combat advantage. Meanwhile the Heroes book gives me this version. http://dnd4.wikia.com/wiki/Backstab Same thing happend with Magic Missile, the Red Box version says you can hit 2 targets, but the Magic Missile from the Heroes book says one target. It's hard to "go by the rules" when 2 different books says 2 different things.
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