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why does everyone hate hunter rangers in dungeons
verazeta
Member Posts: 17 Arc User
hi everyone;
i rolled my first toon here, and got him to 60, i rolled an hr, and it seems to be the worst choice for pve content.
everytime i queue up into a 5 man, i get kicked with a whole no hr's allowed, which im not sure i understand.
the class seems solid on dps, both in aoe, with split the sky and single target with aimed shot and rain of arrows.
is there something i should know about hr's that everyone hates.
i'm currently 10.4k gear score and joining dungeons with gear score ratings of like 5700 - 6700 which makes me seem i'm ok.
i would appreciate any thoughts.
i rolled my first toon here, and got him to 60, i rolled an hr, and it seems to be the worst choice for pve content.
everytime i queue up into a 5 man, i get kicked with a whole no hr's allowed, which im not sure i understand.
the class seems solid on dps, both in aoe, with split the sky and single target with aimed shot and rain of arrows.
is there something i should know about hr's that everyone hates.
i'm currently 10.4k gear score and joining dungeons with gear score ratings of like 5700 - 6700 which makes me seem i'm ok.
i would appreciate any thoughts.
Post edited by verazeta on
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Comments
Frankly, the problem stems from using the random queues as your baseline. Most people there have a presumption about what is "needed" on a team - usually a DC and a bunch of CWs, maybe a GF. Since the HR is the new kid on the block, there are a lot of them, and people are either burnt out on teaming w/ them, or simply want a more traditional team makeup.
IMO, HRs who take advantage of their nature skills can be a great asset to a team - but they're generalists, so some people prefer a more focused class instead of one that can do a variety of things only so-so.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
As far as the main problem of people not liking hr's, there are a lot, I mean a lot of very very very bad hr's running around right now that fall down from kobold sneezes and can't out dps a dc. Until all the drizzt fans stop playing hr's you will have to prove you can be an asset to most pugs.
The ranger is a new class, so the number of people experiencing the class is much larger than those planning to engage (or have engaged). In other words, between 40597849 rangers, I only saw 2 good.
I'm personally not familiar with the class, but I realize that she has a terrible problem of threat and few resources to deal with it. Added to this, most of the players, rather than trying to use the threat "in its favor" in order to keep enemies block (as does a cw) tends to keep running as far away as possible, undoing the blessed block .
In other words, "medium" HR now functions as an "anti-controller".
The issue with rangers is that they play like snipers, pull adds in a corner and then start dodging until the team kills them. That's extremely annoying. While i don't mind rangers playing near melee characters, sniper ones make me want to leave, especially when i'm on my cleric.
Because, you see, melee and clerics prefer mobs nicely piled around them. Especially DC likes mobs and teammates near them, preferably not moving much, which is the opposite of what most hrs are doing in dungeons or skirmishes.
I'm not sure if it's only me or not, but the current style of HR doesn't make me feel like it's a ranger. Probably because of it being half melee and its power styles. The grasping ivy, the dark clouds and thunders, the illusory deer, the green fountain which gushes stones, and the meditation. Many of its powers has nothing to do with arrows. Thus even if there are two HR icons in my party members list, I still can't feel there is any true ranger in my party.
some great advice would include joining a friendly guild or at least joining the public custom channel NW_Legit_Community and use that as a starting point for your pugs.
Between the huge threat and the squishyness if you don't move as an HR you're dead. Devs need to reduce the threat. The player side solution is to run back to your team with the adds when they come after you.
as well as the threat of excess HR is part of a need controler / full defender (gf) to contain the spread of this block already formed.
the two classes are not NOTHING complementary ... hahha
With how broken some of the mechanics are in the game, it shouldn't be out of beta. The quest, foundry, and gateway systems are great but the main draws of MMOs (dungeons and pvp) are broken and sloppy.
bad HRs have threat issues, good ones don't. it requires doing more than aimless split shot spam into packs of unaggro'd mobs and then running away.
That's not to say a good HR doesn't use split shot. he uses it all the time, he just knows when to use and what to hit with it so that he isn't ruining the entire parties dps and clear time.
You need a good understanding of aggro and how it works to play an HR well. I seem to recall that when the class was announced they specified it was tailored for experienced players, though the vast majority of HR are drizzt/legolas types and this is their first and only character so you have tons of bad HR and only a handful of good ones.
That said geared GWFs have no problems with aggro, undergeared ones do, and have problems playing the tank role. if you combine the two in queue pug's at or near GS minimums then yeah you'll have some problems which might lead you to believe that HR's have tremendous aggro issues. they don't.
To answer the original question, people don't like HR's because most HRs are bad. That's nothing against HRs specifically, most people are bad at whatever class they play because most players are bad. But bad players of other classes are simply carried, they don't pull their weight but they don't really interfere that much either. Bad HRs are a detriment to the group, they drastically reduce party dps and clear times, while not providing any kind of personal dps to make up for it. They can as much as double the time it takes to clear a dungeon and still only hit 4th on paingiver, while offering literally nothing else to help the group.
Which is why my wee little 12k HR running around in blues is nature spec. deals 85% of the dmg of an archer while providing DC level mitigation/survivability to the group all from melee range, never pulling aggro (or if I do, it never impedes the group) split shotting away like a boss.
I think that is the problem not your class.
Level it to 14k+ and you will be most welcome to lots of places.
I gotta call bull on the whole gear score bit. In any dungeon I pug. I'm the first in DPS, least death and prolly have the lowest gs in the bunch. After just getting forest lord finished my gearscore went DOWN. Honestly people need to stop using that bugged UI number as a what to base a person on. Actually look at the gear they are using. See if those blues have higher stats (most do) then that t2 equipment.
Yeah I'm still annoyed that after finishing my t2 equipment my stats and score are lower then what i was in blues. Yet that's what our beloved pugged community loves. That fancy number that means jack.
I also have no idea how other HR's aren't doing the most damage in a group. Start using your **** ghost to drop all agro and keep the mobs where they need to be. We have a HAMSTER ton of dodge for a reason.
If the dev said that the class was geared for experienced players and this experienced player needs to "manage" the threat of class, then the threat is an issue of class, no?
But do not get me wrong, when I say that the threat is an issue of class, I do not say that the class is defective. And yes she is imperfect as all others are and need to be so that there is a balance (or that demands an individual effort).
I agree on the rest, it is a practical summarizes why the class is not so dear.
No doubt good HRs don't end up causing these issues, but once you've played with a few bad ones you certainly aren't going to actively look for one next time you're grouping.
Really, you have to ask who you're replacing. TR, or maybe GWF?
Just as a reminder, you will be ignored by everyone on this channel if you try to use exploits. Advertising for /legit without saying that is pretty bad and leads to serious issues on the said channel. It's not a filler for /lfg parties, and it's not a friendly bar either. It's a place for people who are sick of exploits and want to play the game the normal way.
On this last CTA it was time to see how people were playing with rangers, and what baffled me is that most of them of any level where doing this stupid sniper thing... just get behind the team and shoot, it makes clerics work harder, cw/gf/gwf run to get scattered adds and hinders overall dps of the entire group AND makes every run a longer nightmare.
It when the genius use the shot daily when the adds are in the middle of the singularity completely killing the rotations of any CW/gwf/gf bellow it.
Please if you are HR don't use this tactic or you are just being the one I'll never EVER want to group with again.
1) They go down hard, I swear my HR seem to fold up faster than my CW. So meleeing can be dicey when that boss is going to one shot you and you don't have the defenses of any of the other melee classes, outside of your onetime get of jail free card in fox's cunning. If people are being super risk adverse, they're just going to stand back and shoot.
2) Until you get to level 60, you can be pretty **** dumb with an HR and do well in normal heroic dungeons. Split shot is that amazing at lower levels.
So basicly the bad HRs have made a bad name for the few good HR's. Their mass aoe dps is just not a good enough reason to most people since trash mobs can easily be killed, bosses take more effort and planning though so thats where you need it to count.
They don't generate any more aggro than any other class for the damage they deal. They generate far less aggro than GFs, GWFs, or CWs.
The problem that inexperienced HRs have is A: What they are generating aggro on. Their main attack and source of damage is the largest AOE in the game, an 80-90' cone attack that unless aimed properly from good positioning always hits mobs behind the ones the group is currently building aggro on. These are mobs outside the main cluster or fresh respawns in boss engagements. This gives them initial aggro and they continuously spam splitshot on these mobs building further aggro before any other class has attacked the mobs in question.
B: They have no control abilities, really they only have forest ghost to attempt to drop some aggro, and many HRs don't use it for some reason. So when they do draw aggro and they are standing way back playing sniper they draw the mobs away from the classes that could help them, where they continue to generate more aggro trying to kill or kite again while no one else is building aggro on the mobs. HR's aggro has nothing on CW's aggro, but you will never notice because CWs are CCing while they are dealing dmg and generating threat. The mobs aren't b-lining to the cee dub they are getting stunned/frozen/dead.
The average HR needs a Good CW (or 2) and/or a good GWF/GF so that they can come in 3rd-4th on Paingiver. Bad HRs need to go afk at the dungeon entrance not to slow down the group's clear time. That's why HR's aren't liked in groups.
2. Most PuGs are clueless in mutual support = rarely supports their HR, leaves it to die, and then thinks, "Wow, so sucky" -- when it is actually they, who are sucky and have no clue in the concept of "team play" and "mutual support".
3. New class = lot of people playing it = overly abundant
4. Elitist way of thinking only respects max efficiency in team composition = they don't see a content to be enjoyed, they see a "job" to be "farmed" for loot. Hence, any class that is not CW, DC, GWF = trash, needless in a team. Very bad attitude from players used to "farming", simply messing up the community and its tolerance to more leisurely and relaxed game playing.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
funny you should mention this, any HR with any concept of "team play" or "mutual support" never draws aggro, ever. never dies, never needs to be carried. So really its HR with thinking like yours who are clueless and sucky.
Aggro is a natural expression of how much of a threat you are, to the mob. If a DPS is not drawing aggro, then he's not doing his job right. If a HR constantly draws aggro, then the ones who should grab the aggro are also, not doing their job right.
(ps) who says I'm a HR?
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Thats the biggest missconception EVER....
A DPS classes job is to do as much damage as possible WITHOUT drawing aggro!
This means, the max damage you SHOULD do, is limited by how much threat the Tank can put up.