test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
PvE implications of changes to PvP gear sets
beckylunatic
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
The introduction of the Tenacity stat is accompanied by a reduction to the other stats on PvP gear. I wasn't able to take a look at the altered GG sets because of my lack of guild on preview, but I gather that all GG pieces have been altered, whereas right now only 2 of 4 T1 PvP items show changes. There's no way of knowing if this is intentional or an oversight. Offensive stats were reduced, as were HPs, but defense and AC were left alone. Tenacity does not appear to be taken into account in GS, so GS was reduced from live.
Now, some players choose to wear this gear for their PvE builds. Battlefield Scavenger/Skulker sets are integral to most stealth-based rogue builds, regardless of whether they're used in PvP. I know someone with a DC build that maximizes divinity gain, who uses a PvP set even though she only plays PvE. The different set bonuses on PvP gear mean they have applications for customizing builds across the game.
When you build around PvP/GG gear, you're already giving up the stat boost of being able to reinforce your bracers. (Side note: This should really be available for all epic sets.)
The proposed changes mean if you use PvP gear in PvE to build around a particular set bonus, you're giving up useful stats for a stat that does nothing outside of PvP. There are no interchangeable alternative PvE sets.
The counterpart is that PvP players who want to maximize their Tenacity are left with no choices to customize their gear, or pick their preferred set bonus to use. Players who do both are left struggling to find a balance, either working with multiple sets or trying to overcome the deficiencies of one set when running both kinds of content. Some players can afford high-end enchantments for multiple gear sets. Most can't. And while the unslotting costs in gold are quite affordable when you unslot items once in a while, moving enchantments between gear sets depending on what game content you're currently doing is unsustainable.
If you can introduce an effect like Healing Suppression to an area, and you can buff anyone in a PvP zone with a lesser degree of Tenacity even if they're not in PvP gear, then you can make a far less restrictive change, by not discriminating between PvE and PvP gear and making Tenacity an effect on all players in PvP, regardless of their equipment.
It's still not going to address the issue of highly geared players matched with poorly geared players... but putting the Tenacity stat on a couple of gear sets was not going to address that problem anyway.
Now, some players choose to wear this gear for their PvE builds. Battlefield Scavenger/Skulker sets are integral to most stealth-based rogue builds, regardless of whether they're used in PvP. I know someone with a DC build that maximizes divinity gain, who uses a PvP set even though she only plays PvE. The different set bonuses on PvP gear mean they have applications for customizing builds across the game.
When you build around PvP/GG gear, you're already giving up the stat boost of being able to reinforce your bracers. (Side note: This should really be available for all epic sets.)
The proposed changes mean if you use PvP gear in PvE to build around a particular set bonus, you're giving up useful stats for a stat that does nothing outside of PvP. There are no interchangeable alternative PvE sets.
The counterpart is that PvP players who want to maximize their Tenacity are left with no choices to customize their gear, or pick their preferred set bonus to use. Players who do both are left struggling to find a balance, either working with multiple sets or trying to overcome the deficiencies of one set when running both kinds of content. Some players can afford high-end enchantments for multiple gear sets. Most can't. And while the unslotting costs in gold are quite affordable when you unslot items once in a while, moving enchantments between gear sets depending on what game content you're currently doing is unsustainable.
If you can introduce an effect like Healing Suppression to an area, and you can buff anyone in a PvP zone with a lesser degree of Tenacity even if they're not in PvP gear, then you can make a far less restrictive change, by not discriminating between PvE and PvP gear and making Tenacity an effect on all players in PvP, regardless of their equipment.
It's still not going to address the issue of highly geared players matched with poorly geared players... but putting the Tenacity stat on a couple of gear sets was not going to address that problem anyway.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Do this:
On live, go to GG, log off. Copy char to preview. Log to preview, you will find your char in GG, able to buy stuff etc., even as you are guildless.
Be warned, after you exit GG, you won't be able to return without guild, so take care of all your business there in one go, or just join a preview guild/make one with friends.
The fact is that the 4 pc bonus on the TR, CW, and DC set can be very desirable. I'm not sure about other classes. If they tweak stats, these sets could become premium pve gear. I'm not saying it's wrong, or good. It's a fact. It could be why tenacity has a price.
Yeah I read this post. It sounded good until I got to this part....
So that's it then? Just ONE set bonus for PVP? Stat allocations were the least of my worries! I could always customize stuff using gear mods. It was the various set bonuses I was after for my characters, depending on what build I was using. Seriously, if they are going to go through with this questionable plan, they need to make PVP sets with ALL the set bonuses. Only having one set bonus for PVP means every one will have the same build spec in pvp. Super lame.
I'm hoping the devs release non-PVP gear sets with alternative stats as well in the future, as well as weapon sets with different 2 pc set bonuses. Set bonuses in general will be wonderful, actually. We just need more ways we can further improve and personalize our builds.
As for the topic of losing GS in order to make room for Tenacity, I agree that it can be quite worrisome. But it's not as if I have a choice. I'll still use those sets simply because the set bonus supports the builds I use. I personally will not mind losing some 400 GS (approximate amount I lost on Bane in preview) if I can get PVP sets with more stats I could use such as Recovery.
Personally I would like to see more set bonuses over what they have now. For instance, +450 defense on the GF set is a joke. Im already so far into DR it really gives like 1% DR at that point, not even close to worth it, id much rather have +450 deflect (Other GF sets) or +1800 HP (GWF 2pc set) as a set bonus. Also the GGt2 4/4 bonus isnt that great, more block and run speed? Its not bad, but compared to ALOT of other setups, it seems less than ideal. I guess with more gear choices it might compliment better though, well see.
Id really ideally like to see maybe 4 T1 and 4 T2 PVP sets for each class. For each tier you would see:
T1:
"Tank" setup with Set bonus A
"DPS" setup with set bonus A
"Tank" setup with set bonus B
"BPS" setup with set bonus B
Same for T2 and beyond.
The other thing I would HIGHLY encourage is MORE ways to get the sets, IMO include the PVP sets INTO the existing PVE dungeons as an option. This way players will STILL run PVE to get PVP gear which is what I fear wont happen with just T1 from glory and T1 from GG.
Also more set bonuses on weapons would REALLY open up alot of options, again +450 defense on the GF set is MEH, where as GWFs get +450 crit? HRs get +450 ARP? Id MUCH rather have those set bonuses.... Or heck id even take +450 deflect over 450 defense....
I get they want to have tanks tank, but when you really restrict gear choice because tenacity is a MUST, it kinda forces people to play certain ways....
That was partly what I meant about "alternative stats." Should have clarified it to "alternative set bonus stats." Because I agree with you, it's ridiculous how limited our current itemization is. This in turn limits the amount of builds we can create out of a single class. More diverse gear sets will inherently lead to more diverse play styles. The current itemization in the game is killing creativity.
Though I personally love the GG T2 4pc bonuses. They are straightforward, and the buffs they provide cannot be gained by stacking stats as they manipulate factors in our class builds that work independently from stats. Examples of which are Block, Stealth, more Divinity, etc. I'm all up for those exotic sort of effects! And I wish I could see more unique and creative set effects in the future. And if possible I'd also LOVE to see 2 pc set effects from weapons as well that aren't as linear as +450 to stats. Please give us something else, devs. Something stats can't give us. Even weak utility effects like 10% increased Run Speed, 10% faster Stamina/Guard Gain, and other similar and simple effects. Those would greatly aid players in diversifying their choices for the builds they can create. The more effects we can mix and match in the game, the more creative and synergistic builds we'll see. I'm just drooling over the idea of getting more set effects and more variation in set bonus stats.
I like that idea as well, Ayroux. 4 archetypes for our current sets, this should allow players to find the stat setup that best suits them without forgoing the effects they want from their sets.
Well, it could be because...
By golly, you're right!
And the first thing I would do to add more ways to let us improve and personalize our builds, is to let us choose which set bonus we want to use in PVP. I know I'm weird like this, but I personally don't subscribe to the "one size fits all" strategy of character building. I prefer to play my characters how I choose to play them. I don't think that's being unreasonable.
The PVP set bonus definitely does not "emphasize class roles and make them more potent" for all players, playstyles, and character builds. The bonuses, just like all set bonuses, are useful to some, and not so much for others. Here are two specific examples...
The rogue PVP set bonus obviously favors those who choose stealth/saboteur builds. Which is awesome for them. Not so much for me, because my rogue is scoundrel specced. I had been in the process of putting together a Swashbuckler set, because the set bonus is clearly better for me and my playstyle. But seeing as how I will no longer be able to use this set in PVP, I'm not sure what to do with my rogue now.
My wizard is in the same situation. 25% faster mastery usage? Meh. It's ok, but...meh. I was in the process of putting together a High Vizier set, as the extra defense would have been great for me and my playstyle. But apparently I won't be able to use this set in PVP anymore, so I'm not sure what to do with him now either.
I just want choice in what to wear in PVP. As I said before, I don't think that's unreasonable. If PVErs get to have choices, why can't we?
Though I'm not really sure as to how the devs will be able to fix PVP sets becoming less useful for PVE, and PVE sets becoming less useful for PVP. But the simplest and most effective solution I am able to think of is that they should release PVP versions of the PVE sets which can be purchased by Glory. These sets will have inherently less stats than the PVE counterparts as the PVP counterparts will have to make room for Tenacity.
Conversely, I'd also LOVE to see a PVE version of the PVP sets, ones without Tenacity. This should allow the PVE-ers who are using the sets for PVE to retain their original stats.
Separating gear for pvp and pve is one of worst things that can happen in mmo.
You could just try standing in PE and asking in zone chat if anyone would invite you to a guild. You'd probably get an invite pretty fast.
Honestly, you can collect the entire GG set without doing a lick of PVP, and changing 6 sets of viable PVE gear to useless feels like a terrible idea.
That, or , leave the stats as they were, and add Tenacity to it. It doesn't affect GS, and it won't do a thing for PVE.
I just really hope I don't have to farm all new gear for about half my classes because of this huge oversight.
If nothing else, keep the current GG gear as is, and offer both versions in the future. PVE version, and PVP version. Since GG is both, you would get a choice. Maybe a way to exchange old GG for new for a short time after launch.
Exactly this. I use the Valiant Duelist armor set for PvE, and I love it. It's got a great set of stats for me, and looks cool to boot. I had to grind the HAMSTER out of GG to get it (with very little PvP I might add - it's often tough to get in if you're in a Delzoun guild, and I was having a lot of crash problems at the time anyway), and to have it arbitrarily nerfed because it's been given a stat that won't matter to me in the slightest 99% of the time is, well... kind of infuriating.
I mean, I even have other T2 sets complete and ready to go, but that's not the point - this was the one I chose, and now it looks like that to continue using it would put me at a disadvantage. Heck, even if I just wanted to keep the look it'd put me out upwards of 200k AD. And for someone who's got a grand total of one level 60 toon, that's not chump change.
Really hoping this doesn't make it to live.
since the tenacity stat takes away some of the points from existing stats, pvp sets will no longer be ideal for pve usage. adding tenacity to all sets would mean that every set would get a reduction in stats regardless if the individual is or isn't using it for pvp... and frankly isn't fair to people who are 99% pve. pvp gear should be only acquirable through pvp by gaining either glory or grym coin. that would make perfect sense since a lot of people that are into pvp would prefer to do just that and not feel like they're being forced to run dungeons or dailies.
Yeah, but here lies the inherent problem with Gauntlegrym. As far as I'm concerned, the GG set is not a true PVP set. Why? Because you can get it by doing zero PVP.
Honestly, am I the only one that's confused by PVE content offering "PVP gear" as a reward?
For Gauntlegrym to make logical sense, grym coin rewards would have to be eliminated from all PVE portions of Gauntlegrym, and another currency would have to be implemented that enabled players to purchase similar PVE gear.
I'm not saying this is what needs to happen. I'm just saying that's the only situation in which I would ever consider grym coin gear as being "PVP" gear. That's just my opinion.
Anyway tenacity is a stupid idea. Balance the game without ruining existing gear please.
I do hate the idea of it ruining my PvE gear, though.
If I were inclined to use two separate sets for PvE and PvP, my go-to PvP set would probably be my Titan stuff anyway...
Too many changes lately that dramatically effect the in game finances of the average player...
- JailBreak (in development)
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
- JailBreak (in development)